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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #218117 > unrolled thread

iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work?

Started byundefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com>
First post2021-06-16 11:59 -0700
Last post2021-11-17 13:06 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 134 — 26 participants

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Contents

  iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-06-16 11:59 -0700
    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-06-16 16:08 -0400
      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-06-26 12:40 -0700
        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-06-26 15:14 -0600
          Re: s/3, s/34, s/36, and so forth not iBM System/3 FORTRAN John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-06-27 01:27 +0000
          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-28 17:28 -0700
            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-06-29 22:47 +0000
          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-06-29 12:55 -0700
        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-28 17:28 -0700
          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-06-29 13:04 -0700
            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-06-29 21:33 +0000
              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-30 11:44 -0700
              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-01 11:40 -0700
            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-30 11:44 -0700
              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-06-30 15:56 -0400
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-06-30 22:15 +0000
                  Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-07-01 05:12 +0000
                    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-07-01 06:28 +0000
                    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-01 13:28 +0100
                      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-07-03 01:19 +0000
                        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-07-03 10:14 +0100
                          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2021-07-03 10:43 +0000
                        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? sidd@situ.com - 2021-11-02 07:18 +0000
                          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-02 09:26 +0000
                          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-02 05:07 -0700
                            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2021-11-02 15:28 +0000
                            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? sidd@hugin.membrane.com - 2021-11-16 01:50 +0000
                    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-01 11:25 -0700
                      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-01 11:34 -0700
                        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-01 15:56 -0700
                          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-01 20:57 -0700
                            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-02 23:28 +0000
                              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-02 18:26 -0700
                                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-07-05 13:39 -1000
                              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-03 18:40 -0700
                              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-08 14:51 -0700
                                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-08 15:06 -0700
                                  Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-08 17:19 -0700
                                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 07:32 -0700
                                  Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 07:41 -0700
                                    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 13:30 -0400
                                      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-10 13:29 -0700
                                        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 17:13 -0400
                                        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 22:32 -0700
                                          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-11 12:46 -0700
                                          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-07-11 13:58 -1000
                                            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-13 15:03 -0700
                                              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-07-13 18:19 -1000
                                              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-07-13 18:50 -1000
                                                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-16 11:33 -0700
                                                  Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-16 22:40 +0000
                                                  Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 23:13 -0700
                                                    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-17 19:12 +0000
                                                      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-17 21:33 -0700
                                                        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-18 15:20 +0000
                                                          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-20 12:05 -0700
                                                            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-07-21 05:29 +0000
                                                              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-21 17:14 +0000
                                                                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-23 12:19 -0700
                                                                  Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-24 21:35 +0000
                                                                    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-26 13:13 -0700
                                                              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? gah4 <gah4@u.washington.edu> - 2021-07-27 22:13 -0700
                                                            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-21 11:08 -0700
                                                              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-23 12:16 -0700
                                                                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-24 21:35 +0000
                                                                  Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-26 13:09 -0700
                                                          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 22:49 -0700
                                                            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-23 12:01 -0700
                                          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-13 14:55 -0700
                                            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-07-14 10:03 +0000
                                          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-13 15:11 -0700
                                            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 21:42 -0700
                                            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-14 00:39 -0700
                                              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-20 12:07 -0700
                                              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? gah4 <gah4@u.washington.edu> - 2021-07-27 22:07 -0700
                                                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-29 21:19 -0700
                                                  Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-07-29 21:20 -0700
                                                    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-30 07:57 -0700
                                  Re: why PL/I makes us sad, iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-07-11 02:23 +0000
                                    Re: why PL/I makes us sad, iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 21:23 -0700
                                      Re: why PL/I makes us sad, iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-07-11 18:46 +0000
                                    Re: why PL/I makes us sad, iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-11 12:46 -0700
                      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-07-01 20:22 +0000
                    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-07-01 19:00 -0400
                    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-11-02 08:54 -0600
                  Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2021-10-05 22:56 +0000
                    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-05 23:13 +0000
                      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 03:55 -0700
                        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-06 12:32 +0000
                          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-10-06 14:11 +0100
                            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-06 13:34 +0000
                    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 04:00 -0700
                      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 04:07 -0700
                        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 04:11 -0700
                          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-06 12:50 +0000
                        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-06 12:49 +0000
                          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 17:40 -0700
                            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-07 06:18 +0000
                        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-06 13:22 +0000
                    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 04:18 -0700
                      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-10-06 04:21 -0700
                      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-10-06 12:45 +0000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-06-30 18:23 -0700
              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-06-30 18:10 -0700
              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-01 11:36 -0700
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-02 23:28 +0000
                  Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-03 10:32 +0100
                    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-03 18:40 -0700
                      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-04 09:13 +0100
                      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-07-07 12:46 -0700
                        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-07 21:19 +0100
                          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-08 15:01 -0700
                        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 17:06 -0400
                        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-07-08 05:15 +0000
                          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-07-08 15:01 -0700
                            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 19:39 -0400
          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2021-06-30 17:58 -0600
    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-06-18 14:31 -0400
      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-06-18 16:00 -0400
        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> - 2021-06-26 12:47 -0700
          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 16:40 -0400
            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-06-26 15:20 -0600
              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-06-27 11:28 +0100
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-06-27 13:40 -1000
                Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-28 17:28 -0700
              Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2021-06-27 16:00 -0500
          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-06-28 17:28 -0700
    Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-17 09:47 -0800
      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-17 18:06 +0000
        Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-11-17 22:28 +0000
          Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-18 01:00 +0000
            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-11-18 01:51 +0000
            Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-18 06:06 +0000
      Re: iBM System/3 FORTRAN for engineering/science work? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-11-17 13:06 -0500

Page 2 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7  Next page →


#218258

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2021-07-03 10:14 +0100
Message-ID<20210703101423.bf006879cf064694dc2fe679@eircom.net>
In reply to#218254
On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 01:19:39 -0000 (UTC)
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

> According to Ahem A Rivet's Shot  <steveo@eircom.net>:
> >On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 05:12:05 -0000 (UTC)
> >Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
> >
> >> Seems far more readable than m4 (which is the serious programming
> >> language that I would consier most unreadable).
> >
> >	XSLT and sendmail.cf are both less readable IMHO - XSLT control
> >flow is essentially come-from with wildcards.
> 
> Um, sendmail.cf uses m4, which is why it's opaque.

	Er no, there's an m4 generator for sendmail.cf these days to
*simplify* it,

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#218260

FromNiklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com>
Date2021-07-03 10:43 +0000
Message-ID<ikat9tFcjglU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#218258
On 2021-07-03, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 01:19:39 -0000 (UTC)
> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>
>> According to Ahem A Rivet's Shot  <steveo@eircom.net>:
>> >On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 05:12:05 -0000 (UTC)
>> >Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Seems far more readable than m4 (which is the serious programming
>> >> language that I would consier most unreadable).
>> >
>> >	XSLT and sendmail.cf are both less readable IMHO - XSLT control
>> >flow is essentially come-from with wildcards.
>> 
>> Um, sendmail.cf uses m4, which is why it's opaque.
>
> 	Er no, there's an m4 generator for sendmail.cf these days to
> *simplify* it,

Right - sendmail.mc.

Niklas
-- 
For a time, I wrote data analysis code in C on VMS.  I drank a lot of
tequila during that time.
                       -- Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes in asr

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#219542

Fromsidd@situ.com
Date2021-11-02 07:18 +0000
Message-ID<slrnso1rgo.2uv.sidd@hugin.membrane.com>
In reply to#218254
On 2021-07-03, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>
> Um, sendmail.cf uses m4, which is why it's opaque.

I must confess that i still edit sendmail.cf by hand.

Sometimes.

sidd

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#219543

FromBob Eager <news0009@eager.cx>
Date2021-11-02 09:26 +0000
Message-ID<iuceiaFasouU7@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#219542
On Tue, 02 Nov 2021 07:18:51 +0000, sidd wrote:

> On 2021-07-03, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>
>> Um, sendmail.cf uses m4, which is why it's opaque.
> 
> I must confess that i still edit sendmail.cf by hand.

I gave up with it. Postfix is nicer.

I try to avoid m4 anyway. I use ML/I.

-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#219545

FromQuadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
Date2021-11-02 05:07 -0700
Message-ID<8c62a625-f704-4ca8-ac9c-ef17e8952f02n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#219542
On Tuesday, November 2, 2021 at 1:18:57 AM UTC-6, si...@situ.com wrote:
> On 2021-07-03, John Levine <jo...@taugh.com> wrote: 
> > 
> > Um, sendmail.cf uses m4, which is why it's opaque. 
> 
> I must confess that i still edit sendmail.cf by hand. 
> 
> Sometimes. 

I did a Google search to get more information about this,
and the first result I got claimed that

sendmail.mc

is written in m4, and is what should be edited by hand.
Instead,

sendmail.cf

is what resdults after sendmail.mc ils compiled using
the m4 compiler.

John Savard

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#219547

Fromcross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross)
Date2021-11-02 15:28 +0000
Message-ID<slrlet$los$1@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#219545
In article <8c62a625-f704-4ca8-ac9c-ef17e8952f02n@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc  <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Tuesday, November 2, 2021 at 1:18:57 AM UTC-6, si...@situ.com wrote:
>> On 2021-07-03, John Levine <jo...@taugh.com> wrote: 
>> > 
>> > Um, sendmail.cf uses m4, which is why it's opaque. 
>> 
>> I must confess that i still edit sendmail.cf by hand. 
>> 
>> Sometimes. 
>
>I did a Google search to get more information about this,
>and the first result I got claimed that
>
>sendmail.mc
>
>is written in m4, and is what should be edited by hand.
>Instead,
>
>sendmail.cf
>
>is what resdults after sendmail.mc ils compiled using
>the m4 compiler.

The sendmail configuration language is its own special
thing, based on production rewriting systems.  Legend has
it that Eric Allman had taken a class on this and thought
it would be a neat hack to apply it to rewriting email
headers, which at the time was a big problem because of
the variety of email standards and bridges between them.
It was known to be nearly impossibly opaque, so eventually,
a set of macros written in M4 was created to _generate_
`sendmail.cf`.  However, some folks continued to edit the
generated file by hand, and presumably still do.

I don't really try to run email systems anymore: spam
has made it require way too much effort for too little
gain, but for a long time sendmail was just the way most
mail was moved over the Internet.  Then things like the
IDA toolkit for it popped up, and then qmail and Postfix
came along and some others were floating around (exim,
zmailer, MMDF) and it was time to move on.  Still, because
of the generality of the sendmail language, it continued
to move lots of email, and presumably still does in some
places.

	- Dan C.

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#219727

Fromsidd@hugin.membrane.com
Date2021-11-16 01:50 +0000
Message-ID<slrnsp65ir.2ui.sidd@hugin.membrane.com>
In reply to#219545
On 2021-11-02, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 2, 2021 at 1:18:57 AM UTC-6, si...@situ.com wrote:
>> On 2021-07-03, John Levine <jo...@taugh.com> wrote: 
>> > 
>> > Um, sendmail.cf uses m4, which is why it's opaque. 
>> 
>> I must confess that i still edit sendmail.cf by hand. 
>> 
>> Sometimes. 
>
> I did a Google search to get more information about this,
> and the first result I got claimed that
>
> sendmail.mc
>
> is written in m4, and is what should be edited by hand.

Yes, i know. Nevertheless, i do. But only sometimes. 

sidd

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#218230

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2021-07-01 11:25 -0700
Message-ID<281782900.646856626.461544.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#218226
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
> Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> schrieb:
> 
>> One of my colleagues did his Ph.D. in the 1960s. He had also worked for 
>> IBM. Part of his research was the construction of a general purpose macro 
>> language and processor.
>> 
>> As a piss take of IBM, he called it ML/I. (Macro Language 1)
>> 
>> http://www.ml1.org.uk
> 
> Seems far more readable than m4 (which is the serious programming
> language that I would consier most unreadable).
> 
> Or are there others?  Joke languages like Intercal need not apply :-)
> 

IBM’s PL/I preprocessor is fairly general-purpose. The macros are written
in an interpreted subset of PL/I.

-- 
Pete

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#218232

Fromundefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com>
Date2021-07-01 11:34 -0700
Message-ID<6008b75f-7196-4734-bdda-0cb70d9a7d2dn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#218230
On Thursday, July 1, 2021 at 2:25:41 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:


> IBM’s PL/I preprocessor is fairly general-purpose. The macros are written 
> in an interpreted subset of PL/I. 

How popular was PL/I in its heyday?  I knew of a few programmers who really loved
it and pushed it, but it never seemed to catch on that much.

How popular is it today?  The people who liked it at my site have retired and its faded away.

IBM devoted a lot of scarce resources it didn't have to developing it as part of S/360.

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#218238

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2021-07-01 15:56 -0700
Message-ID<723758665.646872522.971131.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#218232
undefined Hancock-4 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, July 1, 2021 at 2:25:41 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote:
> 
> 
>> IBM’s PL/I preprocessor is fairly general-purpose. The macros are written 
>> in an interpreted subset of PL/I. 
> 
> How popular was PL/I in its heyday?  I knew of a few programmers who really loved
> it and pushed it, but it never seemed to catch on that much.

It came along a little later than the S/360 COBOL compiler, it required
more  resources, and some programmers were already familiar with COBOL from
earlier machines, so it was never as popular. I think it did somewhat
better in Europe than in North America. In its heyday it was supported by
quite a fre mainframe manufacturers.
.
> 
> How popular is it today?  The people who liked it at my site have retired
> and its faded away.

I think it’s mostly “legacy” today. There are at least three compilers for
personal computers. I’d like to see it get more use, it’s a powerful
language, even in comparison with more recent languages.

> 
> IBM devoted a lot of scarce resources it didn't have to developing it as part of S/360.
> 

Yes, one system/one language for all purposes.


-- 
Pete

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#218240

FromRobin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com>
Date2021-07-01 20:57 -0700
Message-ID<465f11f2-5002-4e7e-a114-ea9ea3d30a4en@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#218238
On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 8:56:47 AM UTC+10, Peter Flass wrote:
> undefined Hancock-4 <hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote: 
> > On Thursday, July 1, 2021 at 2:25:41 PM UTC-4, Peter Flass wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> >> IBM’s PL/I preprocessor is fairly general-purpose. The macros are written 
> >> in an interpreted subset of PL/I. 
> > 
> > How popular was PL/I in its heyday? I knew of a few programmers who really loved 
> > it and pushed it, but it never seemed to catch on that much.
> It came along a little later than the S/360 COBOL compiler, it required 
> more resources,
.
I do not have information on the resources required by IBM COBOL,
but PL/I-F ran in as little as 64K.  I think that IBM PL/I-DOS
required a 32K machine.
DR PL/I ran in 64K byte PC.
.
Compared to FORTRAN in 1966, PL/I ran rings around it.
PL/I had superior syntax, superior error handling, and superior
debugging facilities.
Yet some FORTRAN users persisted in running programs that
crashed without any indication of where they crashed;
Multiple re-runs would be needed to track down the cause of an error.
With PL/I-F the cause of an error and the statement number where it
occurred were printed out.  Furthermore, the values of variables
could also be printed.
.
When it came to production runs, PL/I had the ability to continue after
encountering bad data, carrying on to completion, without the need for
a call in the early hours to patch the program.
.
The ability to catch integer overflow (whether decimal or binary),
division by zero, floating-point overflow, subscript errors, and character
string errors is an important part of the language.
.
> and some programmers were already familiar with COBOL from 
> earlier machines, so it was never as popular. I think it did somewhat 
> better in Europe than in North America. In its heyday it was supported by 
> quite a fre mainframe manufacturers.
> . 
> > How popular is it today? The people who liked it at my site have retired 
> > and its faded away.
> I think it’s mostly “legacy” today. There are at least three compilers for 
> personal computers. I’d like to see it get more use, it’s a powerful 
> language, even in comparison with more recent languages.
.
...

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#218252

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2021-07-02 23:28 +0000
Message-ID<sbo7f905bp@news1.newsguy.com>
In reply to#218240
On 2021-07-02, Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> wrote:

> I do not have information on the resources required by IBM COBOL,
> but PL/I-F ran in as little as 64K.  I think that IBM PL/I-DOS
> required a 32K machine.
> DR PL/I ran in 64K byte PC.
>
> Compared to FORTRAN in 1966, PL/I ran rings around it.

FSVO "ran rings".  My only contact with PL/I was at university,
where everything ran under MTS.  Admittedly, we were more
concerned with compile time rather than execution time, but
when it came to compilations PL/I was a pig, eating up more
CPU time and memory (and funny money in our student accounts)
than any other language processor (although Assembler G came
close).  Fortran G compiled like lightning.  Forget about COBOL -
to the CS weenies, uttering its name was an even worse profanity
than GOTO.  There wasn't even a COBOL compiler on the system.
(If you were desperate, you could submit a compile request for
overnight batch, where the operators would run it under OS/360
emulation.)  Needless to say, RPG did not exist.  Period.

>>> How popular is it today? The people who liked it at my site
>>> have retired and its faded away.
>>
>> I think it’s mostly “legacy” today. There are at least three
>> compilers for personal computers. I’d like to see it get more
>> use, it’s a powerful language, even in comparison with more
>> recent languages.

Apparently the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia
(set up by the incoming NDP government in the 1970s to take
over all motor vehicle insurance from the private sector)
had all their brand-new software written in PL/I on a
"cost is no object" basis.  Of course, being the provincial
government, it was subject to the usual 100% overruns...

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  They don't understand Microsoft
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  has stolen their car and parked
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  a taxi in their driveway.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Mayayana

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#218255

FromRobin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com>
Date2021-07-02 18:26 -0700
Message-ID<0e35d23a-163a-47f1-8505-94769193bfb5n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#218252
On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 9:29:34 AM UTC+10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2021-07-02, Robin Vowels <robin....@gmail.com> wrote: 
> 
> > I do not have information on the resources required by IBM COBOL, 
> > but PL/I-F ran in as little as 64K. I think that IBM PL/I-DOS 
> > required a 32K machine. 
> > DR PL/I ran in 64K byte PC. 
> >
> > Compared to FORTRAN in 1966, PL/I ran rings around it.
> FSVO "ran rings". My only contact with PL/I was at university, 
> where everything ran under MTS. Admittedly, we were more 
> concerned with compile time rather than execution time, but 
> when it came to compilations PL/I was a pig, eating up more 
> CPU time and memory (and funny money in our student accounts) 
> than any other language processor (although Assembler G came 
> close). Fortran G compiled like lightning.
.
What??!!  IBM's FORTRAN G compiled at about the same speed as their PL/I-F
compiler.
FORTRAN H took about twice as long as FORTRAN G, and in addition
required 4 times as much memory as PL/I-F.
.
Link time for PL/I-F took slightly longer than FORTRAN G.
.
WATFOR and PL/C were both high-speed compilers & were
available for S/360 -- and much faster than the corresponding
IBM products.
.
> Forget about COBOL - 
> to the CS weenies, uttering its name was an even worse profanity 
> than GOTO. There wasn't even a COBOL compiler on the system. 
> (If you were desperate, you could submit a compile request for 
> overnight batch, where the operators would run it under OS/360 
> emulation.) Needless to say, RPG did not exist. Period.
> >>> How popular is it today? The people who liked it at my site 
> >>> have retired and its faded away. 
> >> 
> >> I think it’s mostly “legacy” today. There are at least three 
> >> compilers for personal computers. I’d like to see it get more 
> >> use, it’s a powerful language, even in comparison with more 
> >> recent languages.
> Apparently the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia 
> (set up by the incoming NDP government in the 1970s to take 
> over all motor vehicle insurance from the private sector) 
> had all their brand-new software written in PL/I on a 
> "cost is no object" basis. Of course, being the provincial 
> government, it was subject to the usual 100% overruns...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#218274

FromAnne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Date2021-07-05 13:39 -1000
Message-ID<87mtr05o0p.fsf@localhost>
In reply to#218255
Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> writes:
> What??!!  IBM's FORTRAN G compiled at about the same speed as their PL/I-F
> compiler.
> FORTRAN H took about twice as long as FORTRAN G, and in addition
> required 4 times as much memory as PL/I-F.
> .
> Link time for PL/I-F took slightly longer than FORTRAN G.
> .
> WATFOR and PL/C were both high-speed compilers & were
> available for S/360 -- and much faster than the corresponding
> IBM products.

I took two semester hr intro to fortran/computers, univ. ran 709
tape->tape with tapes moved between 709 and 1401 that ran as front-end
for unit record (card->tape, tape->printer/punch). Student fortran jobs
(30-60 cards) ran under second elapsed time.

Univ. was sold 360/67 originally for tss/360, but never quite came to
production fruition and so ran as 360/65 with os/360. within year of
taking intro class, I was hired fulltime responsible for the ibm
mainframe.

Initially student jobs ran well over a minute three step fortran G,
compile, link-edit, go/execute. I then installed HASP which cut elapsed
time about in half (nearly all job step overhead and file
open/close). First os/360 sysgen I did was release 9.5. I then started
tearing apart stage2 sysgen and reorganizing the cards to optimize
placement of files and PDS members for arm seek and PDS directory
multi-track search which improved student jobs by nearly another 2/3rds
... 12.9sec elapsed ... approx. 4.3sec/job-step.

It wasn't until installed single step, batch WATFOR monitor that student
jobs ran faster than 709. WATFOR ran approx. 20,000 card(statements) per
min (333/sec) on 360/65. Typically a card tray (2000+ cards, 30-60
student jobs) would be batched in single step ... 4.3sec/single-step +
2000/333 secs ... 10.3sec elapsed for batching 30-60 student jobs
... around .2secs/job.  WATFOR would have still been slower than 709
(i.e. 4.5sec/job) if it wasn't for batching multiple jobs per
single-step execution (and w/o my careful sysgen and hasp, it would be
more like 20secs if ran single student job per invokation).

One of the guys up at IBM palo alto science center (that had done much
of the work for the 370/145 APL microcode assist ... got APL throughput
up close to 370/168) ... did a lot of optimization work on Fortran H
that originally was available inside IBM as Fortran Q ... and eventually
released to customers as Fortran HX.

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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#218266

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2021-07-03 18:40 -0700
Message-ID<969561637.647053992.804097.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#218252
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2021-07-02, Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I do not have information on the resources required by IBM COBOL,
>> but PL/I-F ran in as little as 64K.  I think that IBM PL/I-DOS
>> required a 32K machine.
>> DR PL/I ran in 64K byte PC.
>> 
>> Compared to FORTRAN in 1966, PL/I ran rings around it.
> 
> FSVO "ran rings".  My only contact with PL/I was at university,
> where everything ran under MTS.  Admittedly, we were more
> concerned with compile time rather than execution time, but
> when it came to compilations PL/I was a pig, eating up more
> CPU time and memory (and funny money in our student accounts)
> than any other language processor (although Assembler G came
> close).  

I think FORTRAN G was the compiler that did everything via subroutine
calls.  PL/I runtimes could be terrible if you used the wrong features.
Worse than COBOL with its DISPLAY/COMP-3 vs. binary. I’ve got to figure out
a way to make CONTROLLED storage more efficient.

Fortran G compiled like lightning.  Forget about COBOL -
> to the CS weenies, uttering its name was an even worse profanity
> than GOTO.  There wasn't even a COBOL compiler on the system.
> (If you were desperate, you could submit a compile request for
> overnight batch, where the operators would run it under OS/360
> emulation.)  Needless to say, RPG did not exist.  Period.
> 
>>>> How popular is it today? The people who liked it at my site
>>>> have retired and its faded away.
>>> 
>>> I think it’s mostly “legacy” today. There are at least three
>>> compilers for personal computers. I’d like to see it get more
>>> use, it’s a powerful language, even in comparison with more
>>> recent languages.
> 
> Apparently the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia
> (set up by the incoming NDP government in the 1970s to take
> over all motor vehicle insurance from the private sector)
> had all their brand-new software written in PL/I on a
> "cost is no object" basis.  Of course, being the provincial
> government, it was subject to the usual 100% overruns...
> 



-- 
Pete

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#218317

FromQuadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
Date2021-07-08 14:51 -0700
Message-ID<76e599e0-0724-472c-b7e7-5b1a8b80789cn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#218252
On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 5:29:34 PM UTC-6, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> Forget about COBOL - 
> to the CS weenies, uttering its name was an even worse profanity 
> than GOTO. There wasn't even a COBOL compiler on the system. 
> (If you were desperate, you could submit a compile request for 
> overnight batch, where the operators would run it under OS/360 
> emulation.) Needless to say, RPG did not exist. Period.

Although it's unfortunate that the PL/I compiler was not efficient,
you have just given here the best argument for PL/I's existence.

PL/I was a lot easier to learn for programmers used to FORTRAN
than COBOL was, yet it could also do the things that COBOL and
RPG could do, but FORTRAN could not.

So if IBM had only implemented a decent PL/I compiler, that
language could have fulfilled the plans IBM had for it.

John Savard

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#218321

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2021-07-08 15:06 -0700
Message-ID<515302607.647474516.320690.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#218317
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 5:29:34 PM UTC-6, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> Forget about COBOL - 
>> to the CS weenies, uttering its name was an even worse profanity 
>> than GOTO. There wasn't even a COBOL compiler on the system. 
>> (If you were desperate, you could submit a compile request for 
>> overnight batch, where the operators would run it under OS/360 
>> emulation.) Needless to say, RPG did not exist. Period.
> 
> Although it's unfortunate that the PL/I compiler was not efficient,
> you have just given here the best argument for PL/I's existence.
> 
> PL/I was a lot easier to learn for programmers used to FORTRAN
> than COBOL was, yet it could also do the things that COBOL and
> RPG could do, but FORTRAN could not.
> 
> So if IBM had only implemented a decent PL/I compiler, that
> language could have fulfilled the plans IBM had for it.

They apparently still haven’t, although hardware has now grown powerful
enough that no one notices.

Here I am struggling to get the Iron Spring compiler to generate reasonably
efficient code. I wanted to look at IBM’s compiler to see how they handled
this particular situation. I looked at their generated “assembler” and just
about choked on my morning coffee.

-- 
Pete

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#218328

FromQuadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
Date2021-07-08 17:19 -0700
Message-ID<de80d523-e86b-4340-bd91-a3d9749d4d5bn@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#218321
On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 4:06:08 PM UTC-6, Peter Flass wrote:

> Here I am struggling to get the Iron Spring compiler to generate reasonably 
> efficient code. I wanted to look at IBM’s compiler to see how they handled 
> this particular situation. I looked at their generated “assembler” and just 
> about choked on my morning coffee. 

In any case, thank you for providing this valuable tool for Linux and OS/2
users.

John Savard

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#218336

FromRobin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com>
Date2021-07-10 07:32 -0700
Message-ID<8969754f-bc7f-47b4-a55b-fc7e776a2945n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#218317
On Friday, July 9, 2021 at 7:51:50 AM UTC+10, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 5:29:34 PM UTC-6, Charlie Gibbs wrote: 
> > Forget about COBOL - 
> > to the CS weenies, uttering its name was an even worse profanity 
> > than GOTO. There wasn't even a COBOL compiler on the system. 
> > (If you were desperate, you could submit a compile request for 
> > overnight batch, where the operators would run it under OS/360 
> > emulation.) Needless to say, RPG did not exist. Period.
.
> Although it's unfortunate that the PL/I compiler was not efficient,
.
Some have claimed this, and have compared run times for various
languages including FORTRAN and PL/I.  A. B. Tucker ("Programming
Languages") is one.
Unfortunately, he omitted to provide the REORDER keyword
for the PROCEDURE statement in the case of IBM's PL/I compiler.
The PL/I programs ran slower than they should have.
.
I investigated claims by D. J. Kewley, who compared run times of FORTRAN,
Pascal, and PL/I programs. The PL/I version did not use COMPLEX data types,
whereas the FORTRAN version did. Modifying the PL/I version program to use
COMPLEX and REORDER gave a 47% increase in execution speed.
.
P. J. Jaliks compared COBOL and PL/I.  His PL/I version ran slower by
2-3 times of because of inappropriate variable declarations and
failure to disable fixed-point interrupts.
.
> you have just given here the best argument for PL/I's existence. 
> 
> PL/I was a lot easier to learn for programmers used to FORTRAN 
> than COBOL was, yet it could also do the things that COBOL and 
> RPG could do, but FORTRAN could not. 
> 
> So if IBM had only implemented a decent PL/I compiler, that 
> language could have fulfilled the plans IBM had for it. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#218337

FromRobin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com>
Date2021-07-10 07:41 -0700
Message-ID<f2d90b16-7279-4784-bd9d-5a10777af085n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#218336
On Sunday, July 11, 2021 at 12:33:00 AM UTC+10, Robin Vowels wrote:
> On Friday, July 9, 2021 at 7:51:50 AM UTC+10, Quadibloc wrote: 
> > On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 5:29:34 PM UTC-6, Charlie Gibbs wrote: 
> > > Forget about COBOL - 
> > > to the CS weenies, uttering its name was an even worse profanity 
> > > than GOTO. There wasn't even a COBOL compiler on the system. 
> > > (If you were desperate, you could submit a compile request for 
> > > overnight batch, where the operators would run it under OS/360 
> > > emulation.) Needless to say, RPG did not exist. Period. 
> . 
> > Although it's unfortunate that the PL/I compiler was not efficient,
> . 
> Some have claimed this, and have compared run times for various 
> languages including FORTRAN and PL/I. A. B. Tucker ("Programming 
> Languages") is one. 
> Unfortunately, he omitted to provide the REORDER keyword 
> for the PROCEDURE statement in the case of IBM's PL/I compiler. 
> The PL/I programs ran slower than they should have. 
> . 
> I investigated claims by D. J. Kewley, who compared run times of FORTRAN, 
> Pascal, and PL/I programs. The PL/I version did not use COMPLEX data types, 
> whereas the FORTRAN version did. Modifying the PL/I version program to use 
> COMPLEX and REORDER gave a 47% increase in execution speed. 
> . 
> P. J. Jaliks compared COBOL and PL/I. His PL/I version ran slower by 
> 2-3 times of because of inappropriate variable declarations and 
> failure to disable fixed-point interrupts. 
.
R. H. Prins criticized IBM's Enterprise PL/I compiler for
optimising poorly. He subsequently retracted that criticism when
he discovered that he had been compiling the program with OPT(0) --
that is, with no optimisation !

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