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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #218632 > unrolled thread

Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

Started byAndreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net>
First post2021-09-02 14:51 -0400
Last post2021-09-07 20:12 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 130 — 27 participants

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Contents

  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-02 14:51 -0400
    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-03 03:19 -0400
      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-03 14:00 +0000
        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-03 17:44 +0100
        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-09-03 17:43 -0300
          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-03 20:51 +0000
            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-04 21:29 -0700
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-09-05 04:19 -0300
          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-04 15:46 +0100
      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-03 14:11 -0400
        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-03 19:53 +0100
          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-03 13:59 -0700
            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-03 20:18 -0400
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-05 02:14 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-05 09:47 +0100
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2021-09-05 10:00 -0500
                    Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-09-05 22:16 +0000
                      Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-16 05:46 -0700
                        Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-09-18 09:19 +0000
                          Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-18 15:48 +0100
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2021-09-05 12:05 -0400
                    Re: fine old languages, HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-09-05 22:20 +0000
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-09-05 18:05 -0700
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-05 23:00 -0400
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-07 20:12 +0000
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-09-07 16:27 -0400
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-07 18:30 -0400
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-08 00:17 +0000
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-06 08:50 +0100
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2021-09-06 11:16 -0400
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-16 05:50 -0700
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-09-06 15:04 -0400
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2021-09-09 02:04 +0000
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-16 05:37 -0700
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-16 13:50 -0400
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-09-16 20:22 +0000
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-09-16 14:11 -0700
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-09-16 14:05 -0700
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-16 22:55 +0100
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Robin Vowels <robin.vowels@gmail.com> - 2021-09-16 15:40 -0700
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-16 18:57 -0700
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-16 22:33 -0400
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-17 07:13 +0100
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-05 10:44 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-05 09:44 -0400
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-16 05:43 -0700
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-16 13:51 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-05 14:11 +0000
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-09-05 18:31 -0300
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-05 19:45 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-05 13:01 -0400
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-06 17:27 +0000
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-06 23:59 -0400
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-07 09:41 +0000
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-07 11:54 +0100
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2021-09-07 10:58 +0000
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-07 13:42 +0000
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-16 05:58 -0700
                              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2021-09-16 13:42 +0000
                              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-16 15:12 +0100
                                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-16 17:40 +0000
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-07 13:42 +0000
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-07 14:53 +0100
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-07 12:45 -0400
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-16 06:00 -0700
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-07 06:45 -0700
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-07 20:12 +0000
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-09-08 16:17 -0400
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-16 05:55 -0700
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-16 17:40 +0000
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-16 18:16 +0000
                              JRRT's linguistic influences [was not really: Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-09-17 16:35 -0400
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-16 19:19 +0100
                              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-16 23:26 +0000
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-16 18:12 +0000
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-09-16 20:55 +0100
                              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-16 14:41 -0700
                              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-16 23:15 +0100
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-07 06:45 -0700
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-07 14:12 -0400
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-07 15:34 -0700
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-16 06:09 -0700
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2021-09-10 18:25 +0200
        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-05 01:40 -0400
          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-05 09:38 +0100
            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-05 10:49 +0100
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-05 11:22 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-05 11:31 +0100
                  OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-05 11:38 +0100
                    Re: OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-05 12:15 +0100
                      Re: OT : Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-06 17:30 +0000
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-07 20:12 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-07 22:05 +0100
            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2021-09-05 10:13 +0000
            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-05 09:50 -0400
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-05 20:18 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-05 22:38 -0400
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-06 08:53 +0100
          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-05 12:22 -0400
            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-05 17:26 +0100
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-05 17:29 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-09-05 23:35 -0500
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-06 17:37 +0000
                    Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-06 13:46 -0400
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-06 10:58 -0700
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-06 14:01 -0400
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-06 17:42 -0700
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-06 21:07 -0400
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-06 20:01 +0100
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-07 20:12 +0000
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-07 22:08 +0100
                              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-08 09:22 +0000
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-07 00:02 -0400
                        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-07 06:45 -0700
                          Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-07 14:15 -0400
                            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-07 20:44 +0000
                      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-09-07 00:22 -0500
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-06 09:04 +0100
                  Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-09-15 18:08 +0100
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-07 20:12 +0000
            Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox SixOverFive <hae274c.net> - 2021-09-05 23:14 -0400
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-06 00:01 -0400
              Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-06 16:08 -0400
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2021-09-06 21:09 +0000
                Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-09-08 16:14 -0400
      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-09-03 19:34 +0000
      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-03 19:57 -0400
      Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-x4i-this> - 2021-09-03 08:00 -0700
        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-04 15:09 -0400
        Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-07 20:12 +0000

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#218632 — Re: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

FromAndreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net>
Date2021-09-02 14:51 -0400
SubjectRe: HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Message-ID<87fsumsteu.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>
On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 01:10:09 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>
>   The IBM "portable" PC was the same idea - medium-suitcase sized,
>   heavy as hell - very orange mini-screen - BUT you could put 640k
>   and an 8087 in that one. Z80s, well, not so much .....

Didn't IBM came up with that after they saw the tremendous success of the
COMPAQ Portable (I think it was called "COMPAQ" when advertised). I seem
to remember the look came to be when two of the employees were on a lunch
break and put the design on a napkin.

>   OK, OK ... at 300 baud those pictures might load up just
>   a TAD slow ......

There was a Computer Chronicles episode about computer security in the
mid 80s, where a young hacker demonstrated how to break into a BBS. The
text appeared slow and the hacker mentioned something like "This 300 baud
is slow. I wished we had a 1200 baud modem - that would speed things up a
great deal". *g*

I F'up this into the folklore group. Cannot remember seen you there. You
might enjoy it.
-- 
Andreas

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#218633

FromSixOverFive <hae274c.net>
Date2021-09-03 03:19 -0400
Message-ID<jICdnW4qH7AGUaz8nZ2dnUU7-QPNnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#218632
On 9/2/21 2:51 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 01:10:09 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>>
>>    The IBM "portable" PC was the same idea - medium-suitcase sized,
>>    heavy as hell - very orange mini-screen - BUT you could put 640k
>>    and an 8087 in that one. Z80s, well, not so much .....
> 
> Didn't IBM came up with that after they saw the tremendous success of the
> COMPAQ Portable (I think it was called "COMPAQ" when advertised). I seem
> to remember the look came to be when two of the employees were on a lunch
> break and put the design on a napkin.

   Yep, it was intended as a direct competitor to the
   Compaq "portable" ... and, at the time, also Osbourne
   and KayPro.

   But, like them, it was basically a desktop PC shoved
   into a suitcase-sized box with a handle.

   I was using the IBM-PPC for agricultural-product
   research at the time. Wanted to see how certain
   dusts would disperse in the wind across the fields.
   Kept track of wind direction/speed and there were
   sticky-slides at certain intervals in the bushes.
   Got lots of neato pretty-colored wind-drift
   charts out of that. From that, "average" dispersal
   data could be gleaned, useful for real-world
   application charts.

>>    OK, OK ... at 300 baud those pictures might load up just
>>    a TAD slow ......
> 
> There was a Computer Chronicles episode about computer security in the
> mid 80s, where a young hacker demonstrated how to break into a BBS. The
> text appeared slow and the hacker mentioned something like "This 300 baud
> is slow. I wished we had a 1200 baud modem - that would speed things up a
> great deal". *g* 

   Heh ... yea yea ... I *remember*. Had one of those
   'acoustic modems' in the beginning - you literally
   squished the phone handpiece into them. My first
   1200 baud was Anchor Robotics. VASTLY better. At
   300 baud you could actually read the text real-time
   as it came in. Oh well, there WERE slower baud rates
   before then .........

   Somewhere I have a Radio Shack "laptop" ... last
   thing Gates actually wrote some code for. This was
   WAY before real 'laptops'. They were VERY popular
   with the Press - you could fit the acoustic coupler
   into any phone in the world and send in your story.
   (also had a direct-connect phone line capability -
   it could dial tone or pulse AND deal with common
   foreign systems). Ran on actual dry/alk BATTERIES
   you could buy at any store.

> I F'up this into the folklore group. Cannot remember seen you there. You
> might enjoy it.

   Having LIVED a lot of this "folklore" it doesn't seem
   like nostalgic "lore" to me .....

   But I did mostly miss the mainframe/mini days ...
   only had to use punchcards/paper-tape ONCE in a
   college class (which I dropped out of because
   the school already had serial terminals that'd
   do all that PLUS). The class was years behind
   the reality ......

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#218634

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2021-09-03 14:00 +0000
Message-ID<6UpYI.11650$2Q_3.6844@fx35.iad>
In reply to#218633
SixOverFive <hae274c.net> writes:
>On 9/2/21 2:51 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

>> There was a Computer Chronicles episode about computer security in the
>> mid 80s, where a young hacker demonstrated how to break into a BBS. The
>> text appeared slow and the hacker mentioned something like "This 300 baud
>> is slow. I wished we had a 1200 baud modem - that would speed things up a
>> great deal". *g* 
>
>   Heh ... yea yea ... I *remember*. Had one of those
>   'acoustic modems' in the beginning - you literally
>   squished the phone handpiece into them. My first
>   1200 baud was Anchor Robotics. VASTLY better. At
>   300 baud you could actually read the text real-time
>   as it came in. Oh well, there WERE slower baud rates
>   before then .........

Try 110 baud with an ASR-33.  Switching to 300 baud on
a LA-120 was blazing fast...

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#218635

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2021-09-03 17:44 +0100
Message-ID<20210903174437.cb472b1ca827ddb506513267@eircom.net>
In reply to#218634
On Fri, 03 Sep 2021 14:00:34 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> Try 110 baud with an ASR-33.

	We found it very useful in 1974, turn on punch both ends and run
tapes through the readers at each end to get two way data transfer with
hard copy.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#218639

FromMike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere>
Date2021-09-03 17:43 -0300
Message-ID<87k0jxv18b.fsf@bogus.nodomain.nowhere>
In reply to#218634
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:

> SixOverFive <hae274c.net> writes:
>
>>   Heh ... yea yea ... I *remember*. Had one of those
>>   'acoustic modems' in the beginning - you literally
>>   squished the phone handpiece into them. My first
>>   1200 baud was Anchor Robotics. VASTLY better. At
>>   300 baud you could actually read the text real-time
>>   as it came in. Oh well, there WERE slower baud rates
>>   before then .........
> 
> Try 110 baud with an ASR-33.  Switching to 300 baud on
> a LA-120 was blazing fast...

Would that be the same as the DEC-Writer II?  Somebody gave me one of
those w/ an acoustic coupler circa 1990 that I lugged home and
connected just for entertainment value.  IIRC, it had a 110/300
selector switch on the keyboard.  I used it a few times to connect to
a dialup BBS that wasn't very fast anyhow.  The optical whatsit with
the slotted wheel finally gave up so its only operational mode was
"slam the printer head against the left stop and hold it there."

I still have the cute slotted wheel somewhere and the base now
supports my computer desk.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

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#218640

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2021-09-03 20:51 +0000
Message-ID<qVvYI.21842$md6.21573@fx36.iad>
In reply to#218639
Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>
>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>
>> SixOverFive <hae274c.net> writes:
>>
>>>   Heh ... yea yea ... I *remember*. Had one of those
>>>   'acoustic modems' in the beginning - you literally
>>>   squished the phone handpiece into them. My first
>>>   1200 baud was Anchor Robotics. VASTLY better. At
>>>   300 baud you could actually read the text real-time
>>>   as it came in. Oh well, there WERE slower baud rates
>>>   before then .........
>> 
>> Try 110 baud with an ASR-33.  Switching to 300 baud on
>> a LA-120 was blazing fast...
>
>Would that be the same as the DEC-Writer II? 

LA-120 was the DECwriter III.

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#218648

FromQuadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
Date2021-09-04 21:29 -0700
Message-ID<11a30602-e3bd-4819-b7d6-39a5e6bc84fen@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#218640
On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 2:51:36 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Mike Spencer <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes: 
> > 
> >sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes: 
> > 
> >> SixOverFive <hae274c.net> writes: 
> >> 
> >>> Heh ... yea yea ... I *remember*. Had one of those 
> >>> 'acoustic modems' in the beginning - you literally 
> >>> squished the phone handpiece into them. My first 
> >>> 1200 baud was Anchor Robotics. VASTLY better. At 
> >>> 300 baud you could actually read the text real-time 
> >>> as it came in. Oh well, there WERE slower baud rates 
> >>> before then ......... 
> >> 
> >> Try 110 baud with an ASR-33. Switching to 300 baud on 
> >> a LA-120 was blazing fast... 
> > 
> >Would that be the same as the DEC-Writer II?
> LA-120 was the DECwriter III.

And the DECwriter II was the LA-36.

John Savard

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#218651

FromMike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere>
Date2021-09-05 04:19 -0300
Message-ID<87fsujv69a.fsf@bogus.nodomain.nowhere>
In reply to#218648
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:

> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 2:51:36 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> Mike Spencer <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes: 
>> 
>>> Would that be the same as the DEC-Writer II?
>>
>> LA-120 was the DECwriter III.
> 
> And the DECwriter II was the LA-36.

Right.  Thanks.  I still have the user manual here somewhere but I
can't find it.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

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#218644

Fromgareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com>
Date2021-09-04 15:46 +0100
Message-ID<sh00sv$a2r$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#218639
On 03/09/2021 21:43, Mike Spencer wrote:
> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
>
>> SixOverFive <hae274c.net> writes:
>>
>>>   Heh ... yea yea ... I *remember*. Had one of those
>>>   'acoustic modems' in the beginning - you literally
>>>   squished the phone handpiece into them. My first
>>>   1200 baud was Anchor Robotics. VASTLY better. At
>>>   300 baud you could actually read the text real-time
>>>   as it came in. Oh well, there WERE slower baud rates
>>>   before then .........
>>
>> Try 110 baud with an ASR-33.  Switching to 300 baud on
>> a LA-120 was blazing fast...
>
> Would that be the same as the DEC-Writer II?  Somebody gave me one of
> those w/ an acoustic coupler circa 1990 that I lugged home and
> connected just for entertainment value.  IIRC, it had a 110/300
> selector switch on the keyboard.  I used it a few times to connect to
> a dialup BBS that wasn't very fast anyhow.  The optical whatsit with
> the slotted wheel finally gave up so its only operational mode was
> "slam the printer head against the left stop and hold it there."
>
> I still have the cute slotted wheel somewhere and the base now
> supports my computer desk.
>

The DecWriter was delivered on a pallet that had solid sheets
of plywood rather than slats. As the result of that, when we first
married 47 years ago, our first bookcase, which we still have and use,
was made from those sheets of plywood!

After the clanking Teletypes, how we praised the DecWriter for its
quietness, but perhaps nowadays we'd think it to be a noisy thing!

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#218636

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2021-09-03 14:11 -0400
Message-ID<b164jgt5pl8tuuu7gs8s4gtjd6ldsf4tao@4ax.com>
In reply to#218633
On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 03:19:54 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:

>On 9/2/21 2:51 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 01:10:09 -0400, SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>    The IBM "portable" PC was the same idea - medium-suitcase sized,
>>>    heavy as hell - very orange mini-screen - BUT you could put 640k
>>>    and an 8087 in that one. Z80s, well, not so much .....
>> 
>> Didn't IBM came up with that after they saw the tremendous success of the
>> COMPAQ Portable (I think it was called "COMPAQ" when advertised). I seem
>> to remember the look came to be when two of the employees were on a lunch
>> break and put the design on a napkin.
>
>   Yep, it was intended as a direct competitor to the
>   Compaq "portable" ... and, at the time, also Osbourne
>   and KayPro.
>
>   But, like them, it was basically a desktop PC shoved
>   into a suitcase-sized box with a handle.
>
>   I was using the IBM-PPC for agricultural-product
>   research at the time. Wanted to see how certain
>   dusts would disperse in the wind across the fields.
>   Kept track of wind direction/speed and there were
>   sticky-slides at certain intervals in the bushes.
>   Got lots of neato pretty-colored wind-drift
>   charts out of that. From that, "average" dispersal
>   data could be gleaned, useful for real-world
>   application charts.
>
>>>    OK, OK ... at 300 baud those pictures might load up just
>>>    a TAD slow ......
>> 
>> There was a Computer Chronicles episode about computer security in the
>> mid 80s, where a young hacker demonstrated how to break into a BBS. The
>> text appeared slow and the hacker mentioned something like "This 300 baud
>> is slow. I wished we had a 1200 baud modem - that would speed things up a
>> great deal". *g* 
>
>   Heh ... yea yea ... I *remember*. Had one of those
>   'acoustic modems' in the beginning - you literally
>   squished the phone handpiece into them. My first
>   1200 baud was Anchor Robotics. VASTLY better. At
>   300 baud you could actually read the text real-time
>   as it came in. Oh well, there WERE slower baud rates
>   before then .........
>
>   Somewhere I have a Radio Shack "laptop" ... last
>   thing Gates actually wrote some code for. This was
>   WAY before real 'laptops'. They were VERY popular
>   with the Press - you could fit the acoustic coupler
>   into any phone in the world and send in your story.
>   (also had a direct-connect phone line capability -
>   it could dial tone or pulse AND deal with common
>   foreign systems). Ran on actual dry/alk BATTERIES
>   you could buy at any store.
>
>> I F'up this into the folklore group. Cannot remember seen you there. You
>> might enjoy it.
>
>   Having LIVED a lot of this "folklore" it doesn't seem
>   like nostalgic "lore" to me .....
>
>   But I did mostly miss the mainframe/mini days ...
>   only had to use punchcards/paper-tape ONCE in a
>   college class (which I dropped out of because
>   the school already had serial terminals that'd
>   do all that PLUS). The class was years behind
>   the reality ......

Some professors are like that.  I remember helping an undergrad find
the keypunch (I was a computer science grad student and I didn't even
know the school _had_ a keypunch or card reader until that came up).
Seems he was taking a programming course from somebody in the
chemistry department and that idiot insisted that his students use
cards because that's what they'd be working with in the real world.  I
ended up having to go dig up an operator.

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#218637

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2021-09-03 19:53 +0100
Message-ID<20210903195345.1fe658b46921b8bcfff7a36e@eircom.net>
In reply to#218636
On Fri, 03 Sep 2021 14:11:42 -0400
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> and that idiot insisted that his students use
> cards because that's what they'd be working with in the real world. 

	Reminds me of the A level computer science course I wished I hadn't
taken - the year before it had been all about machine architecture,
assembly language programming, data structures and algorithms, fun stuff.
But I wasn't allowed to take it that year (because I was taking my O
levels) I had to wait and take it the following year and so the course I
got to take was COBOL, systems analysis and data validation and not what I
had been looking forward to at all. But it was "what we'd be working with
in the real world" or so I was told when I moaned about the change.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#218641

FromPeter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
Date2021-09-03 13:59 -0700
Message-ID<601278435.652395486.631602.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#218637
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Sep 2021 14:11:42 -0400
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> and that idiot insisted that his students use
>> cards because that's what they'd be working with in the real world. 
> 
> 	Reminds me of the A level computer science course I wished I hadn't
> taken - the year before it had been all about machine architecture,
> assembly language programming, data structures and algorithms, fun stuff.
> But I wasn't allowed to take it that year (because I was taking my O
> levels) I had to wait and take it the following year and so the course I
> got to take was COBOL, systems analysis and data validation and not what I
> had been looking forward to at all. But it was "what we'd be working with
> in the real world" or so I was told when I moaned about the change.
> 

COBOL programmers are still in demand, apparently.

-- 
Pete

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#218643

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2021-09-03 20:18 -0400
Message-ID<brd5jg11h2sv67g34rh4kfghd64mvv8ndu@4ax.com>
In reply to#218641
On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 13:59:26 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2021 14:11:42 -0400
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> and that idiot insisted that his students use
>>> cards because that's what they'd be working with in the real world. 
>> 
>> 	Reminds me of the A level computer science course I wished I hadn't
>> taken - the year before it had been all about machine architecture,
>> assembly language programming, data structures and algorithms, fun stuff.
>> But I wasn't allowed to take it that year (because I was taking my O
>> levels) I had to wait and take it the following year and so the course I
>> got to take was COBOL, systems analysis and data validation and not what I
>> had been looking forward to at all. But it was "what we'd be working with
>> in the real world" or so I was told when I moaned about the change.
>> 
>
>COBOL programmers are still in demand, apparently.

They are.  Unfortunately these days to get a job you have to move to
India and be willing to work for an Indian wage.  It's a _good_ Indian
wage mind you, I understand you can live comfortably on it, but it's
below US minimum.

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#218650

FromSixOverFive <hae274c.net>
Date2021-09-05 02:14 -0400
Message-ID<4vmdndlRB4Tf_an8nZ2dnUU7-cPNnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#218643
On 9/3/21 8:18 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 13:59:26 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2021 14:11:42 -0400
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> and that idiot insisted that his students use
>>>> cards because that's what they'd be working with in the real world.
>>>
>>> 	Reminds me of the A level computer science course I wished I hadn't
>>> taken - the year before it had been all about machine architecture,
>>> assembly language programming, data structures and algorithms, fun stuff.
>>> But I wasn't allowed to take it that year (because I was taking my O
>>> levels) I had to wait and take it the following year and so the course I
>>> got to take was COBOL, systems analysis and data validation and not what I
>>> had been looking forward to at all. But it was "what we'd be working with
>>> in the real world" or so I was told when I moaned about the change.
>>>
>>
>> COBOL programmers are still in demand, apparently.
> 
> They are.  Unfortunately these days to get a job you have to move to
> India and be willing to work for an Indian wage.  It's a _good_ Indian
> wage mind you, I understand you can live comfortably on it, but it's
> below US minimum.

   Know a guy who got a job fairly recently at a govt
   op ... one requirement was that he learn COBOL because
   they'd heavily invested in *perfect* COBOL apps way
   back in the day and would not, could not afford to,
   have them re-written in anything else. Important
   customized stuff like payrolls, scheduling ...

   COBOL was a wonder-language back in the day, perfect for
   all kinds of biz apps and (sort of) self-documenting
   because of the quasi-natural-language code. Its "PIC"
   statement was great, could do everything printf() can
   do, help you out with format conversions and forms.
   It was assumed you were using TTY terminals and serial
   ASCII printers. There ARE a couple of COBOL development
   tools for Linux ... one, I think, will even set up
   tinted columns for the older, more anal, COBOL versions
   where you had to put certain codes in EXACTLY the
   right columns. DID make the compilers simpler ...

   And for the science types, FORTRAN. That's ALSO still
   used. There are HUGE libraries of heavy-duty sci-related
   code that NOBODY dares throw away and don't have the
   time/budget to recreate. I remember having to translate
   a FORTRAN stats collection into IBMPC BASICA ... long
   "poke" lines for working the 8087 .... yuk !

   Despite the similar-looking chip number, the 8087 was
   NOT like the 8088 (or most any other microprocessor).
   A very different paradigm. A couple years later the
   compiler-makers all added '87 math libraries and that
   made it all disappear, but BEFORE .... let's say I
   was *thrilled* that Turbo Pascal included an '87
   code switch - right when I had to write something that
   did a lot of graphic transforms.

   I'd suggest "Foley & Van-Dam  Fundamentals Of Interactive
   Computer Graphics" ... STILL worth looking at. That's how
   it really gets done "under the hood".

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#218653

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2021-09-05 09:47 +0100
Message-ID<sh207o$sdd$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#218650
On 05/09/2021 07:14, SixOverFive wrote:
> On 9/3/21 8:18 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 13:59:26 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2021 14:11:42 -0400
>>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> and that idiot insisted that his students use
>>>>> cards because that's what they'd be working with in the real world.
>>>>
>>>>     Reminds me of the A level computer science course I wished I hadn't
>>>> taken - the year before it had been all about machine architecture,
>>>> assembly language programming, data structures and algorithms, fun 
>>>> stuff.
>>>> But I wasn't allowed to take it that year (because I was taking my O
>>>> levels) I had to wait and take it the following year and so the 
>>>> course I
>>>> got to take was COBOL, systems analysis and data validation and not 
>>>> what I
>>>> had been looking forward to at all. But it was "what we'd be working 
>>>> with
>>>> in the real world" or so I was told when I moaned about the change.
>>>>
>>>
>>> COBOL programmers are still in demand, apparently.
>>
>> They are.  Unfortunately these days to get a job you have to move to
>> India and be willing to work for an Indian wage.  It's a _good_ Indian
>> wage mind you, I understand you can live comfortably on it, but it's
>> below US minimum.
> 
>    Know a guy who got a job fairly recently at a govt
>    op ... one requirement was that he learn COBOL because
>    they'd heavily invested in *perfect* COBOL apps way
>    back in the day and would not, could not afford to,
>    have them re-written in anything else. Important
>    customized stuff like payrolls, scheduling ...
> 
>    COBOL was a wonder-language back in the day, perfect for
>    all kinds of biz apps and (sort of) self-documenting
>    because of the quasi-natural-language code. Its "PIC"
>    statement was great, could do everything printf() can
>    do, help you out with format conversions and forms.
>    It was assumed you were using TTY terminals and serial
>    ASCII printers. There ARE a couple of COBOL development
>    tools for Linux ... one, I think, will even set up
>    tinted columns for the older, more anal, COBOL versions
>    where you had to put certain codes in EXACTLY the
>    right columns. DID make the compilers simpler ...
> 


COBOL was and is a damned good language for commercial programming: It 
enforces a discipline on coding and can be used on machines with 
extremely low RAM. It is extremely *efficient* in execution (though 
massively wordy in source code) What it didn't have back them was  a 
database language to run under it. I particularly liked an idea which I 
believe it originated - and that is a formal way of specifying the data 
structures - tables and fields - in advance. When building SQL style 
applications this is massively useful even in a small project coded  by 
a single person



 >    And for the science types, FORTRAN. That's ALSO still
 >    used. There are HUGE libraries of heavy-duty sci-related
 >    code that NOBODY dares throw away and don't have the
 >    time/budget to recreate. I remember having to translate
 >    a FORTRAN stats collection into IBMPC BASICA ... long
 >    "poke" lines for working the 8087 .... yuk !
 >
 >    Despite the similar-looking chip number, the 8087 was
 >    NOT like the 8088 (or most any other microprocessor).
 >    A very different paradigm. A couple years later the
 >    compiler-makers all added '87 math libraries and that
 >    made it all disappear, but BEFORE .... let's say I
 >    was *thrilled* that Turbo Pascal included an '87
 >    code switch - right when I had to write something that
 >    did a lot of graphic transforms.
 >
 >    I'd suggest "Foley & Van-Dam  Fundamentals Of Interactive
 >    Computer Graphics" ... STILL worth looking at. That's how
 >    it really gets done "under the hood".

Again, FORTRAN is a fully functional efficient compiled procedural 
language. There is no need to 'improve' it.

The IT world gota lot worse when computer scientists started writing 
languages. They just couldn't keep it simple. They had to show off.

Hence 'object oriented' rubbish and  'operator overloading' - sheesh the 
worst idea EVER. Making a expresssion symbol dependent on the context in 
which its being used.


-- 
“when things get difficult you just have to lie” ― Jean Claud Jüncker

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#218666

Fromdrb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone)
Date2021-09-05 10:00 -0500
Message-ID<Dt6dnaFrHvQDRqn8nZ2dnUU7-RudnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#218653
 > COBOL was and is a damned good language for commercial programming: It 
 > enforces a discipline on coding 

Hah.  You can write bad code in any language, and CObOL gives you
plenty of rope.  ALTER clause anyone?

De

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#218676 — Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2021-09-05 22:16 +0000
SubjectRe: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Message-ID<sh3fkl$1gii$1@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#218666
According to Dennis Boone <drb@ihatespam.msu.edu>:
> > COBOL was and is a damned good language for commercial programming: It 
> > enforces a discipline on coding 
>
>Hah.  You can write bad code in any language, and CObOL gives you
>plenty of rope.  ALTER clause anyone?

No worse than the Fortran assigned GOTO.  Sensible programmers stopped using them
as soon as there were other ways to write subroutines, like about 1962.

Academincs sneered at COBOL because it was so wordy and looked like pseudo-English
but it had a lot of good ideas that modern programmers have no idea originated there.

C structures and C++ class data structures are COBOL data (via PL/I
which got them from COBOL and uses essentially the COBOL syntax.) The
COBOL report writer was one of the first uses of coroutines but
unfortunately few COBOL programmers understood it well enough to use
it effectively.

-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#218842 — Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

FromQuadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
Date2021-09-16 05:46 -0700
SubjectRe: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Message-ID<4aa1c7bc-2459-432c-9fbb-56f4712e0644n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#218676
On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 4:16:55 PM UTC-6, John Levine wrote:
> According to Dennis Boone <d...@ihatespam.msu.edu>:

> >Hah. You can write bad code in any language, and CObOL gives you 
> >plenty of rope. ALTER clause anyone?

> No worse than the Fortran assigned GOTO. Sensible programmers stopped using them 
> as soon as there were other ways to write subroutines, like about 1962. 

Actually, the ALTER mechanism in COBOL is much, much worse than the assigned
GOTO in FORTRAN, since there is no evidence in COBOL at the site of the GOTO
being altered that an alteration has taken place.

That is a language construct tailor-made for malfeasance.

John Savard

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#218894 — Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

FromThomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Date2021-09-18 09:19 +0000
SubjectRe: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Message-ID<si4avv$sce$2@newsreader4.netcologne.de>
In reply to#218842
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> schrieb:
> On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 4:16:55 PM UTC-6, John Levine wrote:
>> According to Dennis Boone <d...@ihatespam.msu.edu>:
>
>> >Hah. You can write bad code in any language, and CObOL gives you 
>> >plenty of rope. ALTER clause anyone?
>
>> No worse than the Fortran assigned GOTO. Sensible programmers stopped using them 
>> as soon as there were other ways to write subroutines, like about 1962. 
>
> Actually, the ALTER mechanism in COBOL is much, much worse than the assigned
> GOTO in FORTRAN, since there is no evidence in COBOL at the site of the GOTO
> being altered that an alteration has taken place.

AT (used for debugging purposes in early FORTRAN) actually implemented
come-from.

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#218899 — Re: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2021-09-18 15:48 +0100
SubjectRe: real programmers, was HA - Found a CP/M-86 image and C compiler for VBox
Message-ID<20210918154851.ba8255ff33fc9dd6260d0b1f@eircom.net>
In reply to#218894
On Sat, 18 Sep 2021 09:19:59 -0000 (UTC)
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:

> AT (used for debugging purposes in early FORTRAN) actually implemented
> come-from.

	XSLT control flow is best described as come-from with wild cards.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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