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Top or bottom posting; does it really matter?

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  Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-26 20:51 +0100
    Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-09-26 14:20 -0600
      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-27 09:58 +0100
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-09-27 10:03 -0500
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-09-27 19:57 +0000
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-09-28 13:09 +0000
          Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Charles Richmond <codescott@aquaporin4.com> - 2021-09-29 11:54 -0500
            Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-29 20:42 +0100
            Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-29 20:20 +0000
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> - 2021-09-29 01:13 +0000
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2021-09-29 22:25 -0400
    Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-26 21:44 +0100
      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-09-27 01:41 -0300
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-09-26 23:54 -0600
          Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-27 00:01 -0700
          Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-09-27 20:25 -0300
            Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-09-28 00:03 -0600
            Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Charles Richmond <codescott@aquaporin4.com> - 2021-09-28 01:04 -0500
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Nemo <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-09-27 13:45 -0400
      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-27 10:00 +0100
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-27 11:03 +0100
          Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-09-27 21:10 -0300
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-09-27 18:23 -0500
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Charles Richmond <codescott@aquaporin4.com> - 2021-09-28 01:18 -0500
          Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> - 2021-09-29 01:20 +0000
          Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-09-29 17:10 -0500
            Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-30 09:41 +0100
              Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-30 10:22 +0100
                Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-09-30 10:42 +0100
              Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-30 14:31 +0000
                Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2021-10-01 01:58 +0000
              Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-09-30 10:07 -0500
              Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-09-30 10:23 -0500
    Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-09-27 15:35 -0400
      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-27 21:34 +0100
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-09-27 18:24 -0500
          Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-27 21:45 -0400
            Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-09-28 13:12 +0000
              Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-28 18:33 +0100
                Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-09-28 18:16 +0000
                  Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-09-28 20:20 +0100
                  Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-28 16:39 -0700
                    Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Charles Richmond <codescott@aquaporin4.com> - 2021-09-29 12:03 -0500
                      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-09-30 23:11 -0500
                      Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-09-30 23:17 -0500
                        Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-10-01 18:57 +0000
                          Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-06 02:11 -0500
                            Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-10-06 14:22 -0300
                              Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-07 00:31 -0500
                                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-10-07 14:33 -0300
                                  Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-10-07 13:49 -0400
                                    Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-10-07 16:52 -0300
                                      Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-07 20:13 +0000
                                      Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-10-07 18:54 -0400
                                        Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@icloud.com> - 2021-10-07 23:50 +0000
                                      Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-07 20:12 -0400
                                        Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-10-07 20:24 -0400
                                          Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-08 08:09 -0400
                                            Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-10-08 13:13 -0400
                                              Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-08 14:53 -0400
                                                Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-10-08 19:47 -0400
                                                  Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-10-09 13:03 -0400
                                                    Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-10-09 20:56 -0400
                            Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-10-09 05:48 +0000
                              Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-10-12 10:26 -0500
              Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-09-28 19:03 +0000
                Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-09-28 16:45 -0500
                Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-09-29 17:27 -0500
              Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-09-28 16:41 -0500
              Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-09-28 16:55 -0700
                Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-09-28 20:53 -0400
          Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-09-28 09:36 -0700
            Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-09-28 16:46 -0500
        Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> - 2021-09-29 01:18 +0000
      Re: Top or bottom posting; does it really matter? Branimir Maksimovic <branimir.maksimovic@gmail.com> - 2021-09-29 01:17 +0000

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#219096

On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 18:16:18 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> I've never seen it used by someone who is supposedly 'woke'.

	I have, but not for quite some time.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

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#219101

On Tuesday, September 28, 2021 at 12:16:20 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:

> The _only_ people I've _ever_ heard (or seen in print) using the 
> term 'woke' have been conservatives using it to denigrate liberals; 

I've seen the term "woke" used by people on the liberal side.

What that term means to them when they use it is: someone who
is genuinely conscious of the lived experiences of disadvantaged
groups (particularly African-Americans) and of their perception of
those experiences.

So, if you're "woke", then you "get it" - in rather longer-established
slang.

Thus, one can be liberal without being "woke", and then one may be
liable to be well-meaning but still make mistakes that can be seen
as patronizing, or fail to grasp why certain issues are considered to
be serious matters.

So there are black Americans who feel that the more white
Americans become "woke", and the sooner it happens, the better.

John Savard

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#219121

On 9/28/2021 6:39 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 28, 2021 at 12:16:20 PM UTC-6, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> 
>> The _only_ people I've _ever_ heard (or seen in print) using the
>> term 'woke' have been conservatives using it to denigrate liberals;
> 
> I've seen the term "woke" used by people on the liberal side.
> 
> What that term means to them when they use it is: someone who
> is genuinely conscious of the lived experiences of disadvantaged
> groups (particularly African-Americans) and of their perception of
> those experiences.
> 
> So, if you're "woke", then you "get it" - in rather longer-established
> slang.
> 
> Thus, one can be liberal without being "woke", and then one may be
> liable to be well-meaning but still make mistakes that can be seen
> as patronizing, or fail to grasp why certain issues are considered to
> be serious matters.
> 
> So there are black Americans who feel that the more white
> Americans become "woke", and the sooner it happens, the better.
> 

Has anyone considered putting on their fire-proof suits and moving this 
thread to "alt.flamewar"???  :-)   Some of this is starting to singe my 
computer screen!   ;-)

Of course if folks want to continue this "discussion" here, that's good 
too.  At least these posts beat having *no* one posting to 
alt.computers.folklore.   :-)  I hope...


-- 

Charles Richmond

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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#219177

On 9/29/21 12:03 PM, Charles Richmond wrote:

> Has anyone considered putting on their fire-proof suits and moving this
> thread to "alt.flamewar"???  :-)   Some of this is starting to singe my
> computer screen!   ;-)
> 
> Of course if folks want to continue this "discussion" here, that's good
> too.  At least these posts beat having *no* one posting to
> alt.computers.folklore.   :-)  I hope...

What does political nonsense have to do with this hierarchy? And why do
otherwise intelligent people seem to have an off switch on their brain
when it comes to grinding political axes? Everyone today is delusional.
Left, right, center, it doesn't matter--they're all slinging woo.

Political and religious ideologies are the ideas of your OPPRESSORS.
Elections and their ancillary politics are a sh!t show designed by the
ruling class to make you think you had a choice in who taxes and robs
you and your neighbors. Religion is a racket to scare you into obedience
to your oppressors, with a healthy profit to the prophets for keeping
the sheep in line for the slaughterhouse.

Liberalism, wokeism, cultural marxism, neo-conservatism, libertarianism,
evangelical dominionism, charismatic christianism, catholicism, racism,
anti-racism, islamism, judaism, buddhism, communism, nazism, yada, yada,
etcetera and ad nauseum are ideologies carefully manufactured over the
ages in Babylonian, Egyptian, Spartan, Macedonian, Assyrian, British,
Roman, Kremlin, Berliner, and DOD spook think
tanks to divide and conquer populations while looting them and
tightening the invisible empire's grip.

None of these ideas are new and the same divide-and-conquer political
ruses have been used by the mystery Babylon elite for millennia. If you
study ancient propaganda you will quickly learn this. There's the master
race bogey man and the oppressed minorities sh!t show in every imperial
culture in world history. The roles are reversed, the tables turn, but
the same group that turns the tables stays in power while the rest of us
fight each other.

The world rulers have always ruled by deception, agitation, and
division. They divide up their spoils by staging wars to cull the
population and cash in and consolidate. They are desperate for another
world war to cull the population, and the current political climate is
designed to bring the population to despair and anger prior to starting
a war and enacting new forms of authoritarianism to suppress real
dissent while encouraging useless dissent, corruption and sabotage.

While the proles all battle each other over pet ideology or pet
religious sect the entrenched bureaucracy is quietly installing the
system that will ensure our grandchildren are sport f!ck toys for the
elite for another hundred years.

-- 
███████████████████████████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░░███░░████░░███        [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░░███░░░░██░░███        spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███        always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███        stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░░░░█░░░░██░░░░█        https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░██████░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
███████████████████████████████████

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#219178 — Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter?

On 9/29/21 12:03 PM, Charles Richmond wrote:

> Has anyone considered putting on their fire-proof suits and moving this
> thread to "alt.flamewar"???  :-)   Some of this is starting to singe my
> computer screen!   ;-)
> 
> Of course if folks want to continue this "discussion" here, that's good
> too.  At least these posts beat having *no* one posting to
> alt.computers.folklore.   :-)  I hope...

Amen. I would like this hierarchy to move away from oppressive
political bullsh!t. You guys seem to mostly have some nice and nostalgic
discussions here that are a nice escape from the circus. But wherever
people are, as soon as politics or religion enter the discussion, we can
expect the combatants to circle the wagons with their camp and ready a
romper.

If you want to argue politics and mangle the dictionary, please try
talk.politics.misc or alt.fan.rush.limbaugh. On these political
hierarchies you can:

1. Go vax yourself.
2. Drink your fluoride
3. Fellate your fuhrer.
4. Grope brown people to prove you aren't racist.
5. Claim Jesus identifies as a republican.
6. Prophesy about the second coming of Orange Man.
7. Fellate the cops.
8. Fellate the troops.
9. Defund the fellatio.

... or whatever.

-- 
███████████████████████████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░░███░░████░░███        [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░░███░░░░██░░███        spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███        always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███        stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░░░░█░░░░██░░░░█        https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░██████░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
███████████████████████████████████

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#219195 — Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter?

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 23:17:53 -0500, 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>On 9/29/21 12:03 PM, Charles Richmond wrote:
>>Has anyone considered putting on their fire-proof suits and moving this
>>thread to "alt.flamewar"???  :-)   Some of this is starting to singe my
>>computer screen!   ;-)
>> 
>>Of course if folks want to continue this "discussion" here, that's good
>>too.  At least these posts beat having *no* one posting to
>>alt.computers.folklore.   :-)  I hope...
>
>Amen. I would like this hierarchy to move away from oppressive
>political bullsh!t. You guys seem to mostly have some nice and nostalgic
>discussions here that are a nice escape from the circus. But wherever
>people are, as soon as politics or religion enter the discussion, we can
>expect the combatants to circle the wagons with their camp and ready a
>romper.
>
>If you want to argue politics and mangle the dictionary, please try
>talk.politics.misc or alt.fan.rush.limbaugh. On these political
>hierarchies you can:

I find it curious that you, who just started participating in this forum
literally just days ago, are going to tell the regulars, who have been here for
years, how to conduct themselves.

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#219365 — Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter?

On 10/1/21 1:57 PM, Questor wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 23:17:53 -0500, 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>> On 9/29/21 12:03 PM, Charles Richmond wrote:
>>> Has anyone considered putting on their fire-proof suits and moving this
>>> thread to "alt.flamewar"???  :-)   Some of this is starting to singe my
>>> computer screen!   ;-)
>>>
>>> Of course if folks want to continue this "discussion" here, that's good
>>> too.  At least these posts beat having *no* one posting to
>>> alt.computers.folklore.   :-)  I hope...
>>
>> Amen. I would like this hierarchy to move away from oppressive
>> political bullsh!t. You guys seem to mostly have some nice and nostalgic
>> discussions here that are a nice escape from the circus. But wherever
>> people are, as soon as politics or religion enter the discussion, we can
>> expect the combatants to circle the wagons with their camp and ready a
>> romper.
>>
>> If you want to argue politics and mangle the dictionary, please try
>> talk.politics.misc or alt.fan.rush.limbaugh. On these political
>> hierarchies you can:
> 
> I find it curious that you, who just started participating in this forum
> literally just days ago, are going to tell the regulars, who have been here for
> years, how to conduct themselves.

The same is done with the natives of countries even to this day and
hardly anyone bats an eyelash. Why not advance conquest on Usenet? The
Ubernummer can colonize and seize some trollingsraum. No need to be
fragile over digital turf. We can always make more so Ubernummer can
take more.

I find it curious that quite literally, political discussion is about
telling others how to conduct themselves. And my objection to that is
seen as telling others how to conduct themselves. Voicing any opinion at
all can be seen as telling others how to conduct themselves.

How long you incorrectly think I have been participating is of no
relevance to the discussion, nor is it a accurate gauge of the relevance
of my opinion on such a universal matter.

If you don't like my opinion feel free to object. Don't expect me to be
moved by it. I will generally ignore political points except to say that
whatever political camp you belong to, you're all crazy.

-- 
███████████████████████████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░░███░░████░░███        [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░░███░░░░██░░███        spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███        always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███        stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░░░░█░░░░██░░░░█        https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░██████░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
███████████████████████████████████

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#219388 — Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter?

711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> writes:

> If you don't like my opinion feel free to object. 

Don't care about your opinion but I'd be much more likely to read what
you post if you were to lose the long blocks  of 0x81 0xe2 0x96 0x88 

> ██....

in your sig.


-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

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#219395 — Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter?

On 10/6/21 12:22 PM, Mike Spencer wrote:
> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> writes:
> 
>> If you don't like my opinion feel free to object. 
> 
> Don't care about your opinion but I'd be much more likely to read what
> you post if you were to lose the long blocks  of 0x81 0xe2 0x96 0x88 
> 
>> ██....
> 
> in your sig.

It sounds as if your locale settings may need updated either in your
reader or system-wide.

Are you using Gnus/Emacs? If so the Emacs wiki says:

"Auto-detection of UTF-8 is effectively disabled by default in GNU Emacs
21.3 and below. You can prefer it just below your preferred coding
system by specifying utf-8 with 'M-x prefer-coding-system' and then
repeating the command to replace your most preferred coding system at
the front of the priority list ( 'coding-category-list' )."

More at: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/UnicodeEncoding

Maybe you are using a legacy reader that doesn't understand UTF-8 text.
UTF-8 has been standard for many years now. Most modern mail and news
readers and even terminal emulators now support it out of the box. Many
programmers now use UTF-8 symbols in their source code with no problems.
 Even Python now supports "*~ encoding UTF-8" directives in source files.

Maybe check your locale settings, too. If your system locale is set to
other than "en_US.UTF-8" or something similar containing "UTF-8", this
can cause display of escape sequences rather than characters. In a bash
shell try this:

$ echo $LANG

You might also try:

or

grep -v "#" /etc/locale.gen

search for for a line similar to "en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8" and see if it is
commented out, or if an older ISO encoding is enabled in that file. If
this is the case then:

$ man locale-gen

should instruct you how to update the system locale to display UTF-8
characters properly.

Some hardcore and slim distros may not do these settings automatically,
so applications that don't set their own locale settings will revert to
whatever is in the system settings. For instance take XED text editor.
You can open a file and specify the locale encoding.

You may ignore the string of escape sequences below this line.

_____________________________________________________________________


-- 
███████████████████████████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░░███░░████░░███        [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░░███░░░░██░░███        spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███        always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███        stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░░░░█░░░░██░░░░█        https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░██████░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
███████████████████████████████████

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#219408 — Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter?

711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> writes:

> On 10/6/21 12:22 PM, Mike Spencer wrote:
>
>> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> writes:
>> 
>>> If you don't like my opinion feel free to object. 
>> 
>> Don't care about your opinion but I'd be much more likely to read what
>> you post if you were to lose the long blocks  of 0x81 0xe2 0x96 0x88 
>> 
>>> ██....
>> 
>> in your sig.
> 
> It sounds as if your locale settings may need updated either in your
> reader or system-wide.
> 
> Are you using Gnus/Emacs? If so the Emacs wiki says:
> 
> "Auto-detection of UTF-8 is effectively disabled by default in GNU Emacs
> 21.3 and below.

Emacs 20.7. Just  so.

> [snip]
> Maybe you are using a legacy reader that doesn't understand UTF-8 text.
> UTF-8 has been standard for many years now.

This is Usenet. a.f.c is an English language newsgroup.  I'm an ASCII
guy, expecially  in English on Usenet.  There are work-arounds for for
the occasionally wanted typographic items missing from ASCII.  I
certainly don't need all the 2^32 or whatever symbols/chars/glyphs.


Thank you for your tutorial on enabling UTF-8.  Saved in case Hell
should, in fact, freeze over in my lifetime.

> You may ignore the string of escape sequences below this line.

"Ignore" is the key word there.  "below" is variable.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

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#219409 — Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter?

Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:

> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> writes:
>
>> On 10/6/21 12:22 PM, Mike Spencer wrote:
>>
>>> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> writes:
>>> 
>>>> If you don't like my opinion feel free to object. 
>>> 
>>> Don't care about your opinion but I'd be much more likely to read what
>>> you post if you were to lose the long blocks  of 0x81 0xe2 0x96 0x88 
>>> 
>>>> ██....
>>> 
>>> in your sig.
>> 
>> It sounds as if your locale settings may need updated either in your
>> reader or system-wide.
>> 
>> Are you using Gnus/Emacs? If so the Emacs wiki says:
>> 
>> "Auto-detection of UTF-8 is effectively disabled by default in GNU Emacs
>> 21.3 and below.
>
> Emacs 20.7. Just  so.

Where did you did that up and why should we consider that relevant?

GNU Emacs 27.1

-- 
Dan Espen

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#219411 — Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter?

Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:

> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
> 
>> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> writes:
>>
>>> Are you using Gnus/Emacs? If so the Emacs wiki says:
>>> 
>>> "Auto-detection of UTF-8 is effectively disabled by default in GNU Emacs
>>> 21.3 and below.
>>
>> Emacs 20.7. Just  so.
> 
> Where did you did that up...
> 
> GNU Emacs 27.1

Off-and-on Unix user from '89, tried to install slackware from
floppies in mid 90s, got lost in the mess.  Fail.

In 1999 I bought a Great Fat Book with two Linux CDs in it: Caldera
and RedHat.  Installed Caldera.  It came up with XEmacs default.  Gak!
Hastily downloaded and compiled then-current GNU Emacs -- 20.7.

With a working Linux up, as soon as I figured out how to do it,
switched to Slackware 8.0.

Since then, with each new update of Slackware, there's a new Emacs
version.  I install it, spend several hours trying to make annoying
features go away or revert to previous behavior.  Get fed up and
replace it with the 20.7 binary compiled in 1999.  Rinse & repeat each
time a new Emacs comes along.

I can't recall all the annoyances off the top of my head.  The ones
that come to mind:

  + Changed behavior of the prompt in shell-mode

  + Emacs wants to convert 30 years' accumulation of BABYL email &
    news files to mbox format.

  + Colorization/standout mode.  Colors chosen by Emacs conflict
    with X colors I choose for Emacs windows, making (for example) the
    minibuffer unreadable.

  + Numerous others I forget.

Well, you asked.

> ... and why should we consider that relevant?

Not relevant to Spooky's bloated binary .sig itself.  Relevant
response to Spooky's quoted line, confessiong that h{is,er}
surmise about what {s}he regards as my antidiluvian technology is
correct. 


-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

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#219412 — Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter?

On 2021-10-07, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>> 
>>> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> writes:
>>>
>>>> Are you using Gnus/Emacs? If so the Emacs wiki says:
>>>> 
>>>> "Auto-detection of UTF-8 is effectively disabled by default in GNU Emacs
>>>> 21.3 and below.
>>>
>>> Emacs 20.7. Just  so.
>> 
>> Where did you did that up...
>> 
>> GNU Emacs 27.1
>
> Off-and-on Unix user from '89, tried to install slackware from floppies in
> mid 90s, got lost in the mess.  Fail.
>

Slackware was easy, it had bunch of HOWTO's, and I worked on AT&T Unix and SCO
before :P
Also Stratus's VOS :P


-- 

7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
with software, you repeat same experiment, expecting different results...

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#219413 — Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter?

Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:

> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>> 
>>> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> writes:
>>>
>>>> Are you using Gnus/Emacs? If so the Emacs wiki says:
>>>> 
>>>> "Auto-detection of UTF-8 is effectively disabled by default in GNU Emacs
>>>> 21.3 and below.
>>>
>>> Emacs 20.7. Just  so.
>> 
>> Where did you did that up...
>> 
>> GNU Emacs 27.1
>
> Off-and-on Unix user from '89, tried to install slackware from
> floppies in mid 90s, got lost in the mess.  Fail.
>
> In 1999 I bought a Great Fat Book with two Linux CDs in it: Caldera
> and RedHat.  Installed Caldera.  It came up with XEmacs default.  Gak!
> Hastily downloaded and compiled then-current GNU Emacs -- 20.7.
>
> With a working Linux up, as soon as I figured out how to do it,
> switched to Slackware 8.0.
>
> Since then, with each new update of Slackware, there's a new Emacs
> version.  I install it, spend several hours trying to make annoying
> features go away or revert to previous behavior.  Get fed up and
> replace it with the 20.7 binary compiled in 1999.  Rinse & repeat each
> time a new Emacs comes along.
>
> I can't recall all the annoyances off the top of my head.  The ones
> that come to mind:
>
>   + Changed behavior of the prompt in shell-mode
>
>   + Emacs wants to convert 30 years' accumulation of BABYL email &
>     news files to mbox format.

I used to be an MH-E bigot, but I've long been convinced of the merits
of IMAP.  Leave that stuff on your server.  Well, I do sometimes save
stuff in nnmh format.

>   + Colorization/standout mode.  Colors chosen by Emacs conflict
>     with X colors I choose for Emacs windows, making (for example) the
>     minibuffer unreadable.

Looks like I set the color of the minibuffer text using custom.
Simply get into the customize stuff and find and set it.

There are hundreds of themes, but I've been setting my own colors for
too long.  I can't recall that stuff ever being disturbed by a new
release.

>   + Numerous others I forget.
>
> Well, you asked.

For each new version of Emacs, the News file indicates the changes
and when relevant, how to revert them.

>> ... and why should we consider that relevant?
>
> Not relevant to Spooky's bloated binary .sig itself.  Relevant
> response to Spooky's quoted line, confessiong that h{is,er}
> surmise about what {s}he regards as my antidiluvian technology is
> correct. 

-- 
Dan Espen

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#219418 — Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter?

On 2021-10-07, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>>> 
>>>> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Are you using Gnus/Emacs? If so the Emacs wiki says:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Auto-detection of UTF-8 is effectively disabled by default in GNU Emacs
>>>>> 21.3 and below.
>>>>
>>>> Emacs 20.7. Just  so.
>>> 
>>> Where did you did that up...
>>> 
>>> GNU Emacs 27.1
>>
>> Off-and-on Unix user from '89, tried to install slackware from floppies in
>> mid 90s, got lost in the mess.  Fail.
>>
>> In 1999 I bought a Great Fat Book with two Linux CDs in it: Caldera and
>> RedHat.  Installed Caldera.  It came up with XEmacs default.  Gak!  Hastily
>> downloaded and compiled then-current GNU Emacs -- 20.7.
>>
>> With a working Linux up, as soon as I figured out how to do it, switched to
>> Slackware 8.0.
>>
>> Since then, with each new update of Slackware, there's a new Emacs version.
>> I install it, spend several hours trying to make annoying features go away
>> or revert to previous behavior.  Get fed up and replace it with the 20.7
>> binary compiled in 1999.  Rinse & repeat each time a new Emacs comes along.
>>
>> I can't recall all the annoyances off the top of my head.  The ones that
>> come to mind:
>>
>>   + Changed behavior of the prompt in shell-mode
>>
>>   + Emacs wants to convert 30 years' accumulation of BABYL email & news
>>   files to mbox format.
>
> I used to be an MH-E bigot, but I've long been convinced of the merits of
> IMAP.  Leave that stuff on your server.  Well, I do sometimes save stuff in
> nnmh format.
>
>>   + Colorization/standout mode.  Colors chosen by Emacs conflict with X
>>   colors I choose for Emacs windows, making (for example) the minibuffer
>>   unreadable.
>
> Looks like I set the color of the minibuffer text using custom.  Simply get
> into the customize stuff and find and set it.
>
> There are hundreds of themes, but I've been setting my own colors for too
> long.  I can't recall that stuff ever being disturbed by a new release.
>
>>   + Numerous others I forget.
>>
>> Well, you asked.
>
> For each new version of Emacs, the News file indicates the changes and when
> relevant, how to revert them.
>
Emacs is cleverly written, I might notice :P
iT figures out if you are on desktop or connected via
ssh :P

>


-- 

7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
with software, you repeat same experiment, expecting different results...

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#219420 — Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter?

On 07 Oct 2021 16:52:33 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote:
>
> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>> 
>>> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> writes:
>>>
>>>> Are you using Gnus/Emacs? If so the Emacs wiki says:
>>>> 
>>>> "Auto-detection of UTF-8 is effectively disabled by default in GNU Emacs
>>>> 21.3 and below.

You can probably set something like

(setq mm-coding-system-priorities '(iso-8859-1 iso-8859-15 utf-8))

in the .gnus (or .emacs). I have it, although I doubt it's needed anymore
with my version

(GNU Emacs 27.1 (build 1, i686-pc-linux-gnu) of 2021-03-27, modified by Debian).

>>> Emacs 20.7. Just  so.
>> 
>> Where did you did that up...
>> 
>> GNU Emacs 27.1

Then it automatically should deal with charäkterß outside the ASCII
range, no?

> Off-and-on Unix user from '89, tried to install slackware from
> floppies in mid 90s, got lost in the mess.  Fail.
>
> In 1999 I bought a Great Fat Book with two Linux CDs in it: Caldera
> and RedHat.  Installed Caldera.  It came up with XEmacs default.  Gak!
> Hastily downloaded and compiled then-current GNU Emacs -- 20.7.

Installed my first Linux 1998, but took until 2000 that I used Gnus for
usenet postings.
-- 
Andreas

PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0

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#219421 — Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter?

Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:

> On 07 Oct 2021 16:52:33 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote:
>>
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>>> 
>>>> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Are you using Gnus/Emacs? If so the Emacs wiki says:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Auto-detection of UTF-8 is effectively disabled by default in GNU Emacs
>>>>> 21.3 and below.
>
> You can probably set something like
>
> (setq mm-coding-system-priorities '(iso-8859-1 iso-8859-15 utf-8))
>
> in the .gnus (or .emacs). I have it, although I doubt it's needed anymore
> with my version
>
> (GNU Emacs 27.1 (build 1, i686-pc-linux-gnu) of 2021-03-27, modified by Debian).
>
>>>> Emacs 20.7. Just  so.
>>> 
>>> Where did you did that up...
>>> 
>>> GNU Emacs 27.1
>
> Then it automatically should deal with charäkterß outside the ASCII
> range, no?

Sure does.  Emojis, Bi-directional text.  All just works.


-- 
Dan Espen

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#219431 — Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter?

On Thu, 07 Oct 2021 20:24:38 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>
>> Then it automatically should deal with charäkterß outside the ASCII
>> range, no?
>
> Sure does.  Emojis, Bi-directional text.  All just works.

Indeed. Although your Gnus declares UTF-8, while ISO-8859-1 would had
been sufficient in this case.
-- 
Andreas

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#219434 — Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter?

Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:

> On Thu, 07 Oct 2021 20:24:38 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>>
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>
>>> Then it automatically should deal with charäkterß outside the ASCII
>>> range, no?
>>
>> Sure does.  Emojis, Bi-directional text.  All just works.
>
> Indeed. Although your Gnus declares UTF-8, while ISO-8859-1 would had
> been sufficient in this case.

Seems reasonable based on my $LANG, en_US.UTF-8

I have no idea what gnus uses.

I was really impressed to see Emacs navigate through bi-directional
text, one minute your cursor is moving to the right, then it switches to
moving to the left.  Bizarre.

-- 
Dan Espen

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#219437 — Re: Sub or dom ; does it really matter?

On Fri, 08 Oct 2021 13:13:13 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 07 Oct 2021 20:24:38 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>>>
>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> Then it automatically should deal with charäkterß outside the ASCII
>>>> range, no?
>>>
>>> Sure does.  Emojis, Bi-directional text.  All just works.
>>
>> Indeed. Although your Gnus declares UTF-8, while ISO-8859-1 would had
>> been sufficient in this case.
>
> Seems reasonable based on my $LANG, en_US.UTF-8
>
> I have no idea what gnus uses.

Try adding

(setq mm-coding-system-priorities '(iso-8859-1 iso-8859-15 utf-8))

to the .emacs or .gnus and restart.

> I was really impressed to see Emacs navigate through bi-directional
> text, one minute your cursor is moving to the right, then it switches to
> moving to the left.  Bizarre.

It's awesome. It often surprises me by "thinking itself" when dealing
with special kinds of texts. Like throwing a text in Arabic at it. I
cannot read it, but Emacs seems to know what to do.
-- 
Andreas

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