Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #153085 > unrolled thread

the FORTH computer language

Started byhancock4@bbs.cpcn.com
First post2015-10-19 11:57 -0700
Last post2015-10-24 07:03 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 176 — 34 participants

Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers


Contents

  the FORTH computer language hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-19 11:57 -0700
    Re: the FORTH computer language mentificium@gmail.com - 2015-10-20 05:05 -0700
    Re: the FORTH computer language Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-20 13:57 -0400
      Re: the FORTH computer language Daiyu Hurst <daiyu.hurst@gmail.com> - 2015-10-24 21:26 -0700
        Re: the FORTH computer language "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-25 10:17 +0000
        Re: the FORTH computer language "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-25 18:13 -0500
          Re: the FORTH computer language Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-25 21:35 -0400
            Re: the FORTH computer language "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-26 14:28 -0500
              Re: the FORTH computer language Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-26 17:46 -0400
                Re: the FORTH computer language Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-26 17:49 -0400
                  Re: the FORTH computer language "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-27 15:29 -0500
                Re: the FORTH computer language Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-27 19:55 +0000
    Re: the FORTH computer language "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-21 11:45 +0100
      Re: the FORTH computer language Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2015-10-21 12:34 +0000
        Re: the FORTH computer language "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-21 14:36 +0100
      Re: the FORTH computer language David Hume <David.Hume@example.com> - 2015-10-22 09:38 +0100
        Re: the FORTH computer language "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-22 11:07 +0100
          Re: the FORTH computer language David Hume <David.Hume@example.com> - 2015-10-22 11:35 +0100
            Re: the FORTH computer language "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-22 12:26 +0100
              Re: the FORTH computer language "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-23 21:52 +0100
                Re: the FORTH computer language David Hume <David.Hume@example.com> - 2015-10-23 23:16 +0100
                  Re: the FORTH computer language "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-24 00:21 +0100
                    Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-24 13:23 +0000
                      Re: the FORTH computer language Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-10-24 15:25 +0000
                        Re: the FORTH computer language Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-10-24 22:37 +0200
                          Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-25 13:30 +0000
                        Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-25 13:30 +0000
                          Re: the FORTH computer language Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-10-25 15:53 +0000
                            Re: the FORTH computer language Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-10-25 16:08 +0000
                            Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-26 12:08 +0000
                              Re: the FORTH computer language Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-10-26 16:24 +0000
                      Re: the FORTH computer language "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-24 16:26 +0100
                        Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-25 13:30 +0000
                          Re: the FORTH computer language "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-25 16:33 +0000
                            Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-26 12:03 +0000
                              Re: the FORTH computer language Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-26 06:49 -0700
                                Re: the FORTH computer language Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-26 07:02 -0700
                                  Re: the FORTH computer language Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-26 07:18 -0700
                                    Re: the FORTH computer language Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-26 07:28 -0700
                                    Re: the FORTH computer language Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-26 07:39 -0700
                                    Re: the FORTH computer language pechter@S20.pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-10-26 16:25 +0000
                                  Re: the FORTH computer language "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-26 14:36 -0500
                                    Re: the FORTH computer language Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-26 17:41 -0400
                                      Re: the FORTH computer language "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-27 15:26 -0500
                                        Re: the FORTH computer language Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-27 22:47 -0400
                                Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-27 12:22 +0000
                                  Re: the FORTH computer language Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2015-10-27 09:03 -0600
                                    Re: the FORTH computer language "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-27 15:38 -0500
                                  Re: the FORTH computer language Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-27 08:43 -0700
                                    Re: the FORTH computer language "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-27 15:43 -0500
                                      Re: the FORTH computer language hankvc@blackhole.lostwells.org (Hank) - 2015-10-28 19:05 +0000
                                    Re: the FORTH computer language "78lp" <78lp@nospam.com> - 2015-10-28 16:08 +1100
                                      Re: the FORTH computer language Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-28 05:43 -0700
                                  Re: the FORTH computer language "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-27 15:37 -0500
                                    Re: the FORTH computer language Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-27 18:48 -0600
                                      Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-28 12:58 +0000
                                        Re: the FORTH computer language Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-28 08:15 -0600
                                          Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-29 13:55 +0000
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-29 08:37 -0600
                                              Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-30 13:54 +0000
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 04:58 +1100
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-29 12:19 -0600
                                    Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-28 12:58 +0000
                                      Re: the FORTH computer language Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-28 11:08 -0700
                                        Re: the FORTH computer language "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-28 18:46 +0000
                                          Re: the FORTH computer language Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-28 17:58 -0400
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language David Hume <David.Hume@example.com> - 2015-10-28 22:04 +0000
                                              Re: the FORTH computer language "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-28 17:39 -0500
                                              Re: the FORTH computer language Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-29 00:13 -0400
                                                Re: the FORTH computer language Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-28 22:52 -0600
                                                Re: the FORTH computer language "78lp" <78lp@nospam.com> - 2015-10-29 15:54 +1100
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-28 16:47 -0600
                                        Re: the FORTH computer language Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-04 12:04 -0500
                                      Re: the FORTH computer language "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-10-29 05:54 +1100
                                        Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-29 13:55 +0000
                                          Re: the FORTH computer language Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-29 07:21 -0700
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-29 16:48 +0000
                                              Re: the FORTH computer language JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-10-29 14:47 -0500
                                              Re: the FORTH computer language Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-29 15:09 -0700
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-29 17:19 +0000
                                              Re: the FORTH computer language Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-10-29 18:18 +0000
                                              Re: the FORTH computer language Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-29 18:02 +0000
                                                Re: the FORTH computer language Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-29 19:37 +0000
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-29 11:28 -0600
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-30 13:54 +0000
                                          Re: the FORTH computer language Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-29 08:42 -0600
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-29 14:49 +0000
                                              Re: the FORTH computer language Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-29 08:57 -0600
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-30 13:54 +0000
                                              Re: the FORTH computer language Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-30 08:39 -0600
                                                Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-31 13:22 +0000
                                                  Re: the FORTH computer language Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-31 09:36 -0600
                                                    Re: the FORTH computer language Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-31 09:47 -0700
                                                    Re: the FORTH computer language "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-01 15:14 +1100
                                                      Re: the FORTH computer language David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-01 16:38 +0000
                                                        Re: the FORTH computer language "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 12:58 +1100
                                                        Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-02 13:17 +0000
                                                          Re: the FORTH computer language "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-11-02 10:05 -0600
                                              Re: the FORTH computer language "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 15:23 +1100
                                          Re: the FORTH computer language Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-29 08:44 -0600
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-30 13:54 +0000
                                              Re: the FORTH computer language hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-30 12:25 -0700
                                                Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-31 13:22 +0000
                                                Re: the FORTH computer language David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-01 16:32 +0000
                                                  Re: the FORTH computer language "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-11-01 11:03 -0600
                                                    Re: the FORTH computer language Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-11-01 12:48 -0500
                                                    Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-02 13:17 +0000
                                                      Re: the FORTH computer language "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 07:16 +1100
                                                        Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-03 12:55 +0000
                                                          Re: the FORTH computer language "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-04 08:07 +1100
                                                            Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-04 13:52 +0000
                                                              Re: the FORTH computer language "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-05 08:52 +1100
                                                                Re: the FORTH computer language Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-05 07:48 +0100
                                                                  Re: the FORTH computer language "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-06 06:31 +1100
                                                    Re: the FORTH computer language hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-11-02 07:34 -0800
                                                  Re: the FORTH computer language Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-01 23:55 -0800
                                                    Re: the FORTH computer language hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-11-02 07:40 -0800
                                                  Re: the FORTH computer language "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-11-02 14:59 -0600
                                          Re: the FORTH computer language "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 05:08 +1100
                                      Re: the FORTH computer language Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-28 13:15 -0600
                                        Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-29 13:55 +0000
                                          Re: the FORTH computer language Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-29 16:47 +0000
                                        Re: the FORTH computer language Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-29 07:29 -0700
                                          Re: the FORTH computer language "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-29 14:47 +0000
                                          Re: the FORTH computer language Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-29 08:53 -0600
                                          Re: the FORTH computer language "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-29 15:24 -0500
                                    Re: the FORTH computer language scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-28 13:20 +0000
                                    Re: the FORTH computer language hankvc@blackhole.lostwells.org (Hank) - 2015-10-28 18:54 +0000
                                      Re: the FORTH computer language Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-28 12:47 -0700
                                    Re: the FORTH computer language Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2015-10-28 15:46 -0400
                                      Re: the FORTH computer language Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-28 12:50 -0700
                                        Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-29 13:55 +0000
                                          Re: the FORTH computer language Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-29 08:33 -0600
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-30 13:54 +0000
                                          Re: the FORTH computer language "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 04:55 +1100
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-30 13:54 +0000
                                              Re: the FORTH computer language "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-10-31 15:18 +1100
                                          Re: the FORTH computer language pechter@S20.pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-10-29 19:34 +0000
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-29 19:43 +0000
                                              Re: the FORTH computer language pechter@S20.pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-10-29 20:04 +0000
                                              Re: the FORTH computer language hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-29 13:28 -0700
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-30 13:54 +0000
                                              Re: the FORTH computer language pechter@S20.pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-10-30 16:43 +0000
                                          Re: the FORTH computer language Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2015-10-29 15:37 -0400
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2015-11-03 06:56 +0000
                                      Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-29 13:55 +0000
                                        Re: the FORTH computer language Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2015-10-29 15:47 -0400
                                          Re: the FORTH computer language Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-29 14:14 -0600
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-30 13:54 +0000
                                            Re: the FORTH computer language Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2015-10-30 20:50 -0400
                                          Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-30 13:54 +0000
                                  Re: the FORTH computer language "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-10-28 16:05 +1100
                                    Re: the FORTH computer language Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2015-10-28 15:52 -0400
                                      Re: the FORTH computer language "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-10-29 12:29 +1100
                                        Re: the FORTH computer language Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2015-10-29 15:51 -0400
                              Re: the FORTH computer language Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2015-10-26 09:05 -0600
                                Re: the FORTH computer language "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-26 14:44 -0500
                                  Re: the FORTH computer language hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 10:28 -0700
                              Re: PDP-11, was the FORTH computer language John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2015-10-26 17:19 +0000
                                Re: PDP-11, was the FORTH computer language Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2015-10-26 17:02 -0400
                                  Re: PDP-11, was the FORTH computer language pechter@S20.pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-10-29 19:40 +0000
                              Re: the FORTH computer language "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-26 14:34 -0500
                                Re: the FORTH computer language Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-10-26 21:22 +0000
                                  Re: the FORTH computer language Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-10-27 07:00 +0100
                                    Re: the FORTH computer language timcaffrey420@gmail.com - 2015-10-27 10:15 -0700
                                      Re: the FORTH computer language scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-27 20:09 +0000
                              Re: the FORTH computer language "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-10-27 06:42 +1100
                                Re: the FORTH computer language Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-26 15:22 -0700
                                Re: the FORTH computer language Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-26 15:23 -0700
                                  Re: the FORTH computer language Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-27 19:55 +0000
                                    Re: the FORTH computer language Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-27 16:09 -0400
                          Re: the FORTH computer language Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> - 2015-10-25 19:31 +0000
                            Re: the FORTH computer language jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-26 12:03 +0000
                              Re: the FORTH computer language scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-26 13:10 +0000
                              Re: the FORTH computer language "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-10-27 06:45 +1100
                  Re: the FORTH computer language Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-10-24 07:03 +0000

Page 2 of 9 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9  Next page →


#153284

FromDavid Hume <David.Hume@example.com>
Date2015-10-23 23:16 +0100
Message-ID<84a8r92ptx.fsf@example.com>
In reply to#153273
"gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> writes:

> "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:n0ah0n$1rk$1@dont-email.me...
>> ISTR a PDP-11 version where DUP resolved to MOV (SP), -(SP)
>
> Mea Culpa and a senior moment, I'd forgotten about the Return Stack and the 
> Variable Stack of FORTH
>
> Change the above to read MOV (R0), -(R0)

It doesn't really matter. I think we are talking at cross purposes. Your
discription of Forth as assembler is incorrect because Forth is cross
platform. But also your references to Forth implementations including
Forth on Windows are not what I am referring to as Forth. At some point
in the past, before the existence of Windows, Forth was a finished
product. It was implemented as a low level interpreter, and an
operating system. It just isn't an assembler. You might argue that it is
assembler for a virtual machine. But then if you define a virtual
machine which executes LISP then LISP is an assembler.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153285

From"gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid>
Date2015-10-24 00:21 +0100
Message-ID<n0ef99$r9l$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#153284
"David Hume" <David.Hume@example.com> wrote in message 
news:84a8r92ptx.fsf@example.com...
> "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> writes:
>> "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:n0ah0n$1rk$1@dont-email.me...
>>> ISTR a PDP-11 version where DUP resolved to MOV (SP), -(SP)
>> Mea Culpa and a senior moment, I'd forgotten about the Return Stack and 
>> the
>> Variable Stack of FORTH
>> Change the above to read MOV (R0), -(R0)
>
> It doesn't really matter. I think we are talking at cross purposes. Your
> discription of Forth as assembler is incorrect because Forth is cross
> platform.

As are emulations of instruction sets of old minicomputers such as the PDP8,
but what is being executed is machine code derived from an assembler, just
as FORTH is.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153303

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2015-10-24 13:23 +0000
Message-ID<PM000522D9EAB50649@aca44296.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#153285
gareth wrote:
> "David Hume" <David.Hume@example.com> wrote in message
> news:84a8r92ptx.fsf@example.com...
>> "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> writes:
>>> "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:n0ah0n$1rk$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> ISTR a PDP-11 version where DUP resolved to MOV (SP), -(SP)
>>> Mea Culpa and a senior moment, I'd forgotten about the Return Stack and
>>> the
>>> Variable Stack of FORTH
>>> Change the above to read MOV (R0), -(R0)
>>
>> It doesn't really matter. I think we are talking at cross purposes. Your
>> discription of Forth as assembler is incorrect because Forth is cross
>> platform.
>
> As are emulations of instruction sets of old minicomputers such as the PDP8,
> but what is being executed is machine code derived from an assembler, just
> as FORTH is.

You are wrong.  What is being executed is the running machine's machine
code _after_ the old PDP instruction has been transformed from the PDP
instruction into the running machine's instruction.  In this case,
the emulator is an app which can spawn a child which "runs" an old
OS.  that OS can then spawn "jobs" which will run old apps.  And
so on, and so on.

The OS running on the real hardware, schedules the emulator.  The emulator
then runs the old OS which can do its own scheduling.  The emulator is
not an OS and doesn't provide "timesharing".  ARe there any emulators
which are reentrant?

/BAH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153304

FromStan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org>
Date2015-10-24 15:25 +0000
Message-ID<slrnn2n8mj.1ur.plan.b@ID-309335.user.uni-berlin.de>
In reply to#153303
On 24 Oct 2015 13:23:14 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> gareth wrote:
>> "David Hume" <David.Hume@example.com> wrote in message
>> news:84a8r92ptx.fsf@example.com...
>>> "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> writes:
>>>> "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:n0ah0n$1rk$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>> ISTR a PDP-11 version where DUP resolved to MOV (SP), -(SP)
>>>> Mea Culpa and a senior moment, I'd forgotten about the Return Stack and
>>>> the
>>>> Variable Stack of FORTH
>>>> Change the above to read MOV (R0), -(R0)
>>>
>>> It doesn't really matter. I think we are talking at cross purposes. Your
>>> discription of Forth as assembler is incorrect because Forth is cross
>>> platform.
>>
>> As are emulations of instruction sets of old minicomputers such as the PDP8,
>> but what is being executed is machine code derived from an assembler, just
>> as FORTH is.
>
> You are wrong.  What is being executed is the running machine's machine
> code _after_ the old PDP instruction has been transformed from the PDP
> instruction into the running machine's instruction.  In this case,
> the emulator is an app which can spawn a child which "runs" an old
> OS.  that OS can then spawn "jobs" which will run old apps.  And
> so on, and so on.
>
> The OS running on the real hardware, schedules the emulator.  The emulator
> then runs the old OS which can do its own scheduling.  The emulator is
> not an OS and doesn't provide "timesharing".  ARe there any emulators
> which are reentrant?

The MSDOS Ersatz-11 PDP-11 emulator turns PDP-11 instructions into a 
sequence of x86 instructions which are executed directly.  No use is
made of MSDOS and there is a stand-alone version which doesn't require
an OS at all.  It will do anything (pretty much) that a real PDP-11
can do.  (Even run PDP-11 Forth from a stand-alone bootable image - 
though I haven't actually tried that, but the FIG docs say it can)


-- 
Stan Barr     plan.b@bluesomatic.org

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153320

FromMorten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Date2015-10-24 22:37 +0200
Message-ID<1q6tfc-5l5.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>
In reply to#153304
In article <slrnn2n8mj.1ur.plan.b@ID-309335.user.uni-berlin.de>,
Stan Barr  <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> wrote:
>On 24 Oct 2015 13:23:14 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> gareth wrote:
>>> "David Hume" <David.Hume@example.com> wrote in message
>>> news:84a8r92ptx.fsf@example.com...
>>>> "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> writes:
>>>>> "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:n0ah0n$1rk$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>> ISTR a PDP-11 version where DUP resolved to MOV (SP), -(SP)
>>>>> Mea Culpa and a senior moment, I'd forgotten about the Return Stack and
>>>>> the
>>>>> Variable Stack of FORTH
>>>>> Change the above to read MOV (R0), -(R0)
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't really matter. I think we are talking at cross purposes. Your
>>>> discription of Forth as assembler is incorrect because Forth is cross
>>>> platform.
>>>
>>> As are emulations of instruction sets of old minicomputers such as the PDP8,
>>> but what is being executed is machine code derived from an assembler, just
>>> as FORTH is.
>>
>> You are wrong.  What is being executed is the running machine's machine
>> code _after_ the old PDP instruction has been transformed from the PDP
>> instruction into the running machine's instruction.  In this case,
>> the emulator is an app which can spawn a child which "runs" an old
>> OS.  that OS can then spawn "jobs" which will run old apps.  And
>> so on, and so on.
>>
>> The OS running on the real hardware, schedules the emulator.  The emulator
>> then runs the old OS which can do its own scheduling.  The emulator is
>> not an OS and doesn't provide "timesharing".  ARe there any emulators
>> which are reentrant?
>
>The MSDOS Ersatz-11 PDP-11 emulator turns PDP-11 instructions into a 
>sequence of x86 instructions which are executed directly.  No use is
>made of MSDOS and there is a stand-alone version which doesn't require
>an OS at all.  It will do anything (pretty much) that a real PDP-11
>can do.  (Even run PDP-11 Forth from a stand-alone bootable image - 
>though I haven't actually tried that, but the FIG docs say it can)

and the x86 instructions may be executed by microcode, or even morphed
into some other code, like the transmeta designs do.

So what is the "real" code may differ a bit depending on the viewpoint.

-- mrr

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153323

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2015-10-25 13:30 +0000
Message-ID<PM000522EE124AE7C6@aca42931.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#153320
Morten Reistad wrote:
> In article <slrnn2n8mj.1ur.plan.b@ID-309335.user.uni-berlin.de>,
> Stan Barr  <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> wrote:
>>On 24 Oct 2015 13:23:14 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>> gareth wrote:
>>>> "David Hume" <David.Hume@example.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:84a8r92ptx.fsf@example.com...
>>>>> "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> writes:
>>>>>> "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:n0ah0n$1rk$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>> ISTR a PDP-11 version where DUP resolved to MOV (SP), -(SP)
>>>>>> Mea Culpa and a senior moment, I'd forgotten about the Return Stack and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Variable Stack of FORTH
>>>>>> Change the above to read MOV (R0), -(R0)
>>>>>
>>>>> It doesn't really matter. I think we are talking at cross purposes. Your
>>>>> discription of Forth as assembler is incorrect because Forth is cross
>>>>> platform.
>>>>
>>>> As are emulations of instruction sets of old minicomputers such as the
PDP8,
>>>> but what is being executed is machine code derived from an assembler,
just
>>>> as FORTH is.
>>>
>>> You are wrong.  What is being executed is the running machine's machine
>>> code _after_ the old PDP instruction has been transformed from the PDP
>>> instruction into the running machine's instruction.  In this case,
>>> the emulator is an app which can spawn a child which "runs" an old
>>> OS.  that OS can then spawn "jobs" which will run old apps.  And
>>> so on, and so on.
>>>
>>> The OS running on the real hardware, schedules the emulator.  The emulator
>>> then runs the old OS which can do its own scheduling.  The emulator is
>>> not an OS and doesn't provide "timesharing".  ARe there any emulators
>>> which are reentrant?
>>
>>The MSDOS Ersatz-11 PDP-11 emulator turns PDP-11 instructions into a
>>sequence of x86 instructions which are executed directly.  No use is
>>made of MSDOS and there is a stand-alone version which doesn't require
>>an OS at all.  It will do anything (pretty much) that a real PDP-11
>>can do.  (Even run PDP-11 Forth from a stand-alone bootable image -
>>though I haven't actually tried that, but the FIG docs say it can)
>
> and the x86 instructions may be executed by microcode, or even morphed
> into some other code, like the transmeta designs do.
>
> So what is the "real" code may differ a bit depending on the viewpoint.

The viewpoint should be taken from the hardware POV to define which is
an HLL in these cases.

/BAH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153325

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2015-10-25 13:30 +0000
Message-ID<PM000522EE0D6F6493@aca42931.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#153304
Stan Barr wrote:
> On 24 Oct 2015 13:23:14 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> gareth wrote:
>>> "David Hume" <David.Hume@example.com> wrote in message
>>> news:84a8r92ptx.fsf@example.com...
>>>> "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> writes:
>>>>> "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:n0ah0n$1rk$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>> ISTR a PDP-11 version where DUP resolved to MOV (SP), -(SP)
>>>>> Mea Culpa and a senior moment, I'd forgotten about the Return Stack and
>>>>> the
>>>>> Variable Stack of FORTH
>>>>> Change the above to read MOV (R0), -(R0)
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't really matter. I think we are talking at cross purposes. Your
>>>> discription of Forth as assembler is incorrect because Forth is cross
>>>> platform.
>>>
>>> As are emulations of instruction sets of old minicomputers such as the
PDP8,
>>> but what is being executed is machine code derived from an assembler, just
>>> as FORTH is.
>>
>> You are wrong.  What is being executed is the running machine's machine
>> code _after_ the old PDP instruction has been transformed from the PDP
>> instruction into the running machine's instruction.  In this case,
>> the emulator is an app which can spawn a child which "runs" an old
>> OS.  that OS can then spawn "jobs" which will run old apps.  And
>> so on, and so on.
>>
>> The OS running on the real hardware, schedules the emulator.  The emulator
>> then runs the old OS which can do its own scheduling.  The emulator is
>> not an OS and doesn't provide "timesharing".  ARe there any emulators
>> which are reentrant?
>
> The MSDOS Ersatz-11 PDP-11 emulator turns PDP-11 instructions into a
> sequence of x86 instructions which are executed directly.  No use is
> made of MSDOS and there is a stand-alone version which doesn't require
> an OS at all.  It will do anything (pretty much) that a real PDP-11
> can do.  (Even run PDP-11 Forth from a stand-alone bootable image -
> though I haven't actually tried that, but the FIG docs say it can)

Does the stand-alone version do all the disk I/O and network management, too?

/BAH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153326

FromStan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org>
Date2015-10-25 15:53 +0000
Message-ID<slrnn2puob.2vbt.plan.b@ID-309335.user.uni-berlin.de>
In reply to#153325
On 25 Oct 2015 13:30:18 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> The MSDOS Ersatz-11 PDP-11 emulator turns PDP-11 instructions into a
>> sequence of x86 instructions which are executed directly.  No use is
>> made of MSDOS and there is a stand-alone version which doesn't require
>> an OS at all.  It will do anything (pretty much) that a real PDP-11
>> can do.  (Even run PDP-11 Forth from a stand-alone bootable image -
>> though I haven't actually tried that, but the FIG docs say it can)
>
> Does the stand-alone version do all the disk I/O and network 
> management, too?

Good question.  I've not tried the stand-alone version but here's the
blurb from the website:

"Ersatz-11 is available in a stand-alone version, which boots from a
hard disk partition (or USB drive or floppy disk) and runs on a bare
PC with no operating system. It includes a FAT12/16/32 file-system
driver. It provides most of the benefits of the DOS version (mainly
direct access to hardware, such as Q-/Unibus adapters or multi-serial
cards, and reduced exposure to changing software environments) to
users who don't want to run DOS. It truly is a stand-alone system
(there's no DOS hidden inside) and it boots very quickly directly to
the E11> prompt."

Expensive for commercial use, but free for hobbyists.  I run RSTS/E v7
under the MSDOS version.  (And FIGForth under RT-11...)
With my Micro 11/73 out of commission it makes a great substitute.

-- 
Stan Barr     plan.b@bluesomatic.org

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153327

FromStan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org>
Date2015-10-25 16:08 +0000
Message-ID<slrnn2pvk4.1b8.plan.b@ID-309335.user.uni-berlin.de>
In reply to#153326
On 25 Oct 2015 15:53:47 GMT, Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> wrote:

> Good question.  I've not tried the stand-alone version but here's the
> blurb from the website:

Sorry, I forgot: http://www.dbit.com

-- 
Stan Barr     plan.b@bluesomatic.org

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153340

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2015-10-26 12:08 +0000
Message-ID<PM000523011311B008@aca2d620.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#153326
Stan Barr wrote:
> On 25 Oct 2015 13:30:18 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The MSDOS Ersatz-11 PDP-11 emulator turns PDP-11 instructions into a
>>> sequence of x86 instructions which are executed directly.  No use is
>>> made of MSDOS and there is a stand-alone version which doesn't require
>>> an OS at all.  It will do anything (pretty much) that a real PDP-11
>>> can do.  (Even run PDP-11 Forth from a stand-alone bootable image -
>>> though I haven't actually tried that, but the FIG docs say it can)
>>
>> Does the stand-alone version do all the disk I/O and network
>> management, too?
>
> Good question.  I've not tried the stand-alone version but here's the
> blurb from the website:
>
> "Ersatz-11 is available in a stand-alone version, which boots from a
> hard disk partition (or USB drive or floppy disk) and runs on a bare
> PC with no operating system. It includes a FAT12/16/32 file-system
> driver. It provides most of the benefits of the DOS version (mainly
> direct access to hardware, such as Q-/Unibus adapters or multi-serial
> cards, and reduced exposure to changing software environments) to
> users who don't want to run DOS. It truly is a stand-alone system
> (there's no DOS hidden inside) and it boots very quickly directly to
> the E11> prompt."
>
> Expensive for commercial use, but free for hobbyists.  I run RSTS/E v7
> under the MSDOS version.  (And FIGForth under RT-11...)
> With my Micro 11/73 out of commission it makes a great substitute.
>

It sounds like a functional microcode which inputs -11 instructions
and outputs the PC's instructions.  which CPUs does it support?  It
also sounds like a headache waiting to happen w.r.t. debugging if
something went wrong.

/BAH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153349

FromStan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org>
Date2015-10-26 16:24 +0000
Message-ID<slrnn2sktd.2vne.plan.b@ID-309335.user.uni-berlin.de>
In reply to#153340
On 26 Oct 2015 12:08:27 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> Stan Barr wrote:
>> On 25 Oct 2015 13:30:18 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The MSDOS Ersatz-11 PDP-11 emulator turns PDP-11 instructions into a
>>>> sequence of x86 instructions which are executed directly.  No use is
>>>> made of MSDOS and there is a stand-alone version which doesn't require
>>>> an OS at all.  It will do anything (pretty much) that a real PDP-11
>>>> can do.  (Even run PDP-11 Forth from a stand-alone bootable image -
>>>> though I haven't actually tried that, but the FIG docs say it can)
>>>
>>> Does the stand-alone version do all the disk I/O and network
>>> management, too?
>>
>> Good question.  I've not tried the stand-alone version but here's the
>> blurb from the website:
>>
>> "Ersatz-11 is available in a stand-alone version, which boots from a
>> hard disk partition (or USB drive or floppy disk) and runs on a bare
>> PC with no operating system. It includes a FAT12/16/32 file-system
>> driver. It provides most of the benefits of the DOS version (mainly
>> direct access to hardware, such as Q-/Unibus adapters or multi-serial
>> cards, and reduced exposure to changing software environments) to
>> users who don't want to run DOS. It truly is a stand-alone system
>> (there's no DOS hidden inside) and it boots very quickly directly to
>> the E11> prompt."
>>
>> Expensive for commercial use, but free for hobbyists.  I run RSTS/E v7
>> under the MSDOS version.  (And FIGForth under RT-11...)
>> With my Micro 11/73 out of commission it makes a great substitute.
>>
>
> It sounds like a functional microcode which inputs -11 instructions
> and outputs the PC's instructions.  which CPUs does it support?  It
> also sounds like a headache waiting to happen w.r.t. debugging if
> something went wrong.
>
> /BAH

Extracted from the manual:

Ersatz-11 emulates the entire PDP-11 system in software, including
most standard disks, tapes, serial devices, and network interfaces. 
Facilities are provided to integrate non-standard device emulations 
into E11 when necessary.
E11 is intended to boot and run any PDP-11 operating system. 
It has been tested with RT-11 (all flavors), RSX-11M, RSX-11M-PLUS, 
RSTS/E, IAS, TSX-Plus, 2.9BSD and 2.11BSD UNIX, DSM-11, DOS/BATCH, 
Fuzzball(BOS), the Fox 2/30 OS, and XXDP+.

Emulated configuration
PDP-11/03, PDP-11/04, PDP-11/05, PDP-11/20, PDP-11/23,
PDP-11/24, PDP-11/34a, PDP-11/40, PDP-11/44, PDP-11/45, PDP-11/53, 
PDP-11/60, PDP-11/70, PDP-11/73,PDP-11/74, PDP-11/83, PDP-11/84,
PDP-11/93, or PDP-11/94 CPU with individually selectable features

FP11/FPF11/FPJ11 (etc.) floating point processor, FIS floating
instruction set option, KE11A/B extended arithmetic element (EAE)

4 MB main memory
Many different models of disks, tapes, serial and network devices 
(see tables below).


I've not actually tried debugging anything (yet!).

-- 
Stan Barr     plan.b@bluesomatic.org

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153305

From"gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid>
Date2015-10-24 16:26 +0100
Message-ID<n0g7s1$he$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#153303
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:PM000522D9EAB50649@aca44296.ipt.aol.com...
> You are wrong.  What is being executed is the running machine's machine
> code _after_ the old PDP instruction has been transformed from the PDP
> instruction into the running machine's instruction.  In this case,
> the emulator is an app which can spawn a child which "runs" an old
> OS.  that OS can then spawn "jobs" which will run old apps.  And
> so on, and so on.

What was running in the later versions of the PDP-11 that were microcoded?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153324

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2015-10-25 13:30 +0000
Message-ID<PM000522EE18B332A4@aca42931.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#153305
gareth wrote:
> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:PM000522D9EAB50649@aca44296.ipt.aol.com...
>> You are wrong.  What is being executed is the running machine's machine
>> code _after_ the old PDP instruction has been transformed from the PDP
>> instruction into the running machine's instruction.  In this case,
>> the emulator is an app which can spawn a child which "runs" an old
>> OS.  that OS can then spawn "jobs" which will run old apps.  And
>> so on, and so on.
>
> What was running in the later versions of the PDP-11 that were microcoded?

I don't understand your question.  What microcode?

/BAH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153329

From"gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid>
Date2015-10-25 16:33 +0000
Message-ID<n0j050$2n8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#153324
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:PM000522EE18B332A4@aca42931.ipt.aol.com...
> gareth wrote:
>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:PM000522D9EAB50649@aca44296.ipt.aol.com...
>>> You are wrong.  What is being executed is the running machine's machine
>>> code _after_ the old PDP instruction has been transformed from the PDP
>>> instruction into the running machine's instruction.  In this case,
>>> the emulator is an app which can spawn a child which "runs" an old
>>> OS.  that OS can then spawn "jobs" which will run old apps.  And
>>> so on, and so on.
>>
>> What was running in the later versions of the PDP-11 that were 
>> microcoded?
>
> I don't understand your question.  What microcode?

The first PDP-11 That I encountered in 1971 was all TTL. Those that I 
encountered
4 or 5 years later were microcoded.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153338

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2015-10-26 12:03 +0000
Message-ID<PM00052300F849B5FD@aca2d620.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#153329
gareth wrote:
> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:PM000522EE18B332A4@aca42931.ipt.aol.com...
>> gareth wrote:
>>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:PM000522D9EAB50649@aca44296.ipt.aol.com...
>>>> You are wrong.  What is being executed is the running machine's machine
>>>> code _after_ the old PDP instruction has been transformed from the PDP
>>>> instruction into the running machine's instruction.  In this case,
>>>> the emulator is an app which can spawn a child which "runs" an old
>>>> OS.  that OS can then spawn "jobs" which will run old apps.  And
>>>> so on, and so on.
>>>
>>> What was running in the later versions of the PDP-11 that were
>>> microcoded?
>>
>> I don't understand your question.  What microcode?
>
> The first PDP-11 That I encountered in 1971 was all TTL. Those that I
> encountered
> 4 or 5 years later were microcoded.

I don't remember any microcode.  But, not that I think of it, the
-11s I dealt with were remote stations and the ones on the KL
front end.  Those didn't have microcode.  If they did, I sure
don't remember the filenames.

/BAH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153342

FromQuadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
Date2015-10-26 06:49 -0700
Message-ID<11ba64cd-50b8-4778-9c06-97e204309109@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#153338
On Monday, October 26, 2015 at 6:02:25 AM UTC-6, jmfbahciv wrote:
> Those didn't have microcode.  If they did, I sure
> don't remember the filenames.

Microcode isn't (necessarily) stored in files. It's a way to implement the 
computer's instruction set, and is still built into the hardware in most cases. 
If it is loaded externally, a special mechanism is needed so that it can happen 
when the computer doesn't even work yet. (Thus, as an example, one IBM 370 
model loaded the microcode from the first 8-inch floppy disk - it wasn't in a 
file on one of the 3330 hard drives hooked to it.)

The PDP-9 was microcoded (which surprised me, given the nature of its 
instruction set) - Gordon Bell notes that in his book "Computer Engineering".

John Savard

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153343

FromQuadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
Date2015-10-26 07:02 -0700
Message-ID<f7b69272-8c9a-4a46-a0ae-6f5e9f5a41fb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#153342
On Monday, October 26, 2015 at 7:49:46 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
 
> The PDP-9 was microcoded (which surprised me, given the nature of its 
> instruction set) - Gordon Bell notes that in his book "Computer Engineering".

Reviewing that book, I first saw a mention that the 11/20 was hardwired, and 
the PDP-11 instruction set was simple enough not to make microcode compulsory. 
Then it was noted that the PDP-11/60 used microcode, and even had a writable 
control store, so that customers could add their own functionality; and that 
the 11/40 made a more limited use of microcode. Later, it was noted that all 
the PDP-11 models used microcoded control units with the sole exception of the 
11/20 (page 329) as someone noted in this thread.

John Savard

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153344

FromQuadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
Date2015-10-26 07:18 -0700
Message-ID<bd153a4b-1988-4a90-8647-73b425f793d0@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#153343
On Monday, October 26, 2015 at 8:02:23 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Monday, October 26, 2015 at 7:49:46 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

> > The PDP-9 was microcoded (which surprised me, given the nature of its 
> > instruction set) - Gordon Bell notes that in his book "Computer Engineering".

> Reviewing that book, I first saw a mention that the 11/20 was hardwired, and 
> the PDP-11 instruction set was simple enough not to make microcode compulsory. 
> Then it was noted that the PDP-11/60 used microcode, and even had a writable 
> control store, so that customers could add their own functionality; and that 
> the 11/40 made a more limited use of microcode. Later, it was noted that all 
> the PDP-11 models used microcoded control units with the sole exception of the 
> 11/20 (page 329) as someone noted in this thread.

There's even a table on page 337:

The LSI-11 used 22-bit wide vertical microinstructions; the others used horizontal microinstructions:

The 11/04 and 11/10 used 40-bit microinstructions;
The 11/34 and 11/60 used 48-bit microinstructions;
The 11/40 used 56-bit microinstructions; and
The 11/45 used 64-bit microinstructions.

The PDP-11/70, however, is not mentioned in that table. The Wikipedia page on 
the PDP-11 refers to the /35 as a version of the /40, and the /50, /55, and /70 
as versions of the /45, but the extent to which this is true of the internal 
implementation is not clear.

The /44 was a bit-slice design, so it would have had to have been 
microprogrammed, but no details are provided.

John Savard

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153345

FromQuadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
Date2015-10-26 07:28 -0700
Message-ID<1daba0d1-8221-483e-906d-07bdad7a8ef2@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#153344
I've been able to confirm that the 11/70 had a 64-bit microcode word (as did the 
11/45) from an 11/70 hardware student handout from Al Kossow's site.

John Savard

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153346

FromQuadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
Date2015-10-26 07:39 -0700
Message-ID<2dc67d92-9f86-4198-a993-bec079fefc32@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#153344
On Monday, October 26, 2015 at 8:18:49 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

> The /44 was a bit-slice design, so it would have had to have been 
> microprogrammed, but no details are provided.

From the 11/44 System Manual, I see that it used 56-bit microprogram words, like 
the /40, but not necessarily in the same format.

John Savard

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 2 of 9 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | alt.folklore.computers


csiph-web