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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #212690 > unrolled thread
| Started by | gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2020-08-12 13:44 +0100 |
| Last post | 2020-08-13 12:15 -0500 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 180 — 18 participants |
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Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-12 13:44 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-08-12 11:16 -0500
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-12 17:55 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-08-12 14:47 -0500
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-12 21:30 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-12 21:24 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-12 14:38 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-12 18:39 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-12 18:58 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-12 17:35 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-12 22:23 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-12 23:08 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-13 09:53 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 18:54 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-12 23:54 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 00:07 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-13 13:57 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-13 09:54 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-13 20:38 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-13 09:53 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 13:31 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 15:28 -0500
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-13 21:05 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-08-14 11:33 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-13 17:12 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-13 19:08 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-08-14 11:32 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-08-14 03:41 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-14 07:14 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-14 06:43 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 07:10 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-14 13:43 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 07:50 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-14 14:06 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 13:36 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-14 19:41 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-14 18:04 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-14 13:24 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 08:31 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 13:37 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 15:34 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-14 16:18 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-14 07:13 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-14 19:47 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 05:57 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-14 11:20 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 07:37 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-08-14 11:44 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-14 12:24 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 07:46 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 08:20 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 13:38 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-14 19:50 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 14:01 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-14 21:31 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 16:37 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-14 21:38 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-15 00:00 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 18:18 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-08-14 18:51 -0500
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-15 15:03 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-15 12:09 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-15 20:15 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-15 11:36 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-15 21:42 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-15 16:37 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-08-15 21:01 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-15 18:07 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-15 18:46 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-15 17:41 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-15 18:36 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-15 18:56 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-15 21:08 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-16 15:56 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-16 19:16 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-16 19:23 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-16 20:33 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-16 21:04 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-16 22:31 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-16 23:20 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-17 09:44 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2020-08-17 04:27 -0500
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-17 10:39 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-17 07:52 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-17 08:20 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-17 09:33 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-17 13:47 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-17 09:38 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-17 16:43 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-08-17 19:11 -0300
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-17 19:53 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-17 22:23 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-22 20:47 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-23 09:58 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-23 14:22 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-17 08:11 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-17 14:07 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-17 10:25 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-17 19:35 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-18 11:17 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-17 17:29 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-19 21:30 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-19 19:26 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-20 07:49 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 12:33 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-20 01:35 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-20 07:07 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-20 14:26 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 12:37 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 12:49 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-20 17:15 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 14:19 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 16:25 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 17:14 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 19:29 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 19:37 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 19:43 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 20:36 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 20:40 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 20:51 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 22:08 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 22:07 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-20 21:14 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-20 20:49 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-08-20 19:20 -0300
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-08-20 23:50 -0500
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-21 05:44 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-08-21 12:10 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-21 08:38 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-21 18:31 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-08-21 16:04 -0500
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-21 17:33 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-21 17:32 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-08-21 22:22 -0500
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-08-22 09:39 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-21 18:30 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:03 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-02 06:35 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-02 16:54 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-11-17 18:51 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:03 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-20 20:47 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 17:23 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Scams) Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-08-20 23:52 -0500
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-20 08:13 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2020-08-18 03:56 -0500
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-18 10:19 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2020-08-18 05:00 -0500
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-18 07:38 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-18 11:45 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-18 07:58 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-18 12:02 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-19 21:49 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-17 10:25 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-16 13:16 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-14 11:46 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 15:41 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 16:39 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-14 13:29 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-14 14:36 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-14 07:13 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 13:41 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-14 20:01 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 16:41 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-15 00:02 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-14 18:05 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-02 07:04 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 11:26 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-14 16:16 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-13 09:53 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-14 16:11 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-13 12:00 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-13 13:48 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 19:01 -0400
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-08-14 03:34 +0200
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-13 13:01 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-13 13:47 +0100
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2020-08-13 14:28 +0000
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-13 09:53 -0700
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 12:15 -0500
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| From | Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-13 13:31 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <rh3tdv$cvc$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #212735 |
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes: > Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: >> >>> On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 17:35:54 -0700, Peter Flass >>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:38:28 -0700, Peter Flass >>>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>> On 2020-08-12, gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I do wonder whether Microsoft is intending to commit suicide by driving >>>>>>>> users into the arms of other OSs such as Linux or Android. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pissing off your customers is not the way to longevity. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unless you're a monopoly. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> But they’re not, any more. Linux can handle 80-90% of all user >>>>>> requirements, and 100% for typical users. I use either this iPad or my >>>>>> Linux box for everything, and I can’t recall the last time I felt the need >>>>>> to use windows. >>>>> >>>>> Can it handle 100 percent of corporate requirements though? >>>>> >>>> >>>> That’ why I said 80-90%. Some places have custom apps that depend on some >>>> windows features - like the APL interface we’ve discussed. Sure they could >>>> be rewritten, but it would probably be pricy. OTOH, you could always keep a >>>> legacy windows box or two around for those things and use Linux for the >>>> rest. Heck, you could probably run windows in a VM on Linux. Isn’t MSFT >>>> developing something that lets you run windows or windows apps on Linux? >>>> >>>> I would think moving to Linux would save lots of money, although a company >>>> would still want to pay for support. >>> >>> Just for openers how long will it take and what will it cost to >>> retrain thousands of users on Linux and Office 365? >> >> No time at all. >> Most users can't tell the difference. >> I just read an article about how to make Linux act pretty much like W10. >> Okay, here it is: >> >> https://kevq.uk/how-to-make-ubuntu-work-like-windows-10/ > > Windows XP is a great improvement over its successors. I never could stand > anything after that. I suppose but the tinkertoy interface made me laugh. Just looked like the whole appearance was designed for children especially compared to NT. -- Dan Espen
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| From | JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-13 15:28 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <qg8bjfhg0p7jq31sm5h21bgnsqq67umdpb@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #212742 |
On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 13:31:43 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes: > >> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: >>> >>>> On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 17:35:54 -0700, Peter Flass >>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:38:28 -0700, Peter Flass >>>>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>> On 2020-08-12, gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I do wonder whether Microsoft is intending to commit suicide by driving >>>>>>>>> users into the arms of other OSs such as Linux or Android. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pissing off your customers is not the way to longevity. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Unless you're a monopoly. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But they’re not, any more. Linux can handle 80-90% of all user >>>>>>> requirements, and 100% for typical users. I use either this iPad or my >>>>>>> Linux box for everything, and I can’t recall the last time I felt the need >>>>>>> to use windows. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can it handle 100 percent of corporate requirements though? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That’ why I said 80-90%. Some places have custom apps that depend on some >>>>> windows features - like the APL interface we’ve discussed. Sure they could >>>>> be rewritten, but it would probably be pricy. OTOH, you could always keep a >>>>> legacy windows box or two around for those things and use Linux for the >>>>> rest. Heck, you could probably run windows in a VM on Linux. Isn’t MSFT >>>>> developing something that lets you run windows or windows apps on Linux? >>>>> >>>>> I would think moving to Linux would save lots of money, although a company >>>>> would still want to pay for support. >>>> >>>> Just for openers how long will it take and what will it cost to >>>> retrain thousands of users on Linux and Office 365? >>> >>> No time at all. >>> Most users can't tell the difference. >>> I just read an article about how to make Linux act pretty much like W10. >>> Okay, here it is: >>> >>> https://kevq.uk/how-to-make-ubuntu-work-like-windows-10/ >> >> Windows XP is a great improvement over its successors. I never could stand >> anything after that. > >I suppose but the tinkertoy interface made me laugh. >Just looked like the whole appearance was designed for children >especially compared to NT. I consider everything after XP to be nothing but a patch to XP. Yeah, Windows 10 is a different path, but I'm not impressed by anything after Win XP. -- Jim
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-13 21:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rh49tt12dp3@news2.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #212742 |
On 2020-08-13, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: > Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes: > >> Windows XP is a great improvement over its successors. I've always loved that saying. :-) And in this case, I agree 100% - which is why whenever I have to use Windows, I bring up a copy of XP under VirtualBox on one of my Linux machines. If something doesn't run under XP, I'm lucky enough to not need it. >> I never could stand anything after that. > > I suppose but the tinkertoy interface made me laugh. > Just looked like the whole appearance was designed for children > especially compared to NT. I refer to it as the "Fisher-Price" interface. Fortunately you can easily restore an adult appearance by going into the Control Panel's "Display" screen, and setting the Theme to "Windows Classic". -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship. \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult. X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy. / \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| From | "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-14 11:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <XnsAC197FC2BDB9Dadmin127001@144.76.35.198> |
| In reply to | #212748 |
On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 21:05:01 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: > On 2020-08-13, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes: >> >>> Windows XP is a great improvement over its successors. > > I've always loved that saying. :-) > > And in this case, I agree 100% - which is why whenever > I have to use Windows, I bring up a copy of XP under > VirtualBox on one of my Linux machines. If something > doesn't run under XP, I'm lucky enough to not need it. > >>> I never could stand anything after that. >> >> I suppose but the tinkertoy interface made me laugh. >> Just looked like the whole appearance was designed for children >> especially compared to NT. > > I refer to it as the "Fisher-Price" interface. Fortunately you can > easily restore an adult appearance by going into the Control Panel's > "Display" screen, and setting the Theme to "Windows Classic". > Oh yes, none of that tosh, thank you. -- Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
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| From | Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-13 17:12 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <379611183.619056584.750309.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #212742 |
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: > Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes: > >> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: >>> >>>> On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 17:35:54 -0700, Peter Flass >>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:38:28 -0700, Peter Flass >>>>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>> On 2020-08-12, gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I do wonder whether Microsoft is intending to commit suicide by driving >>>>>>>>> users into the arms of other OSs such as Linux or Android. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pissing off your customers is not the way to longevity. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Unless you're a monopoly. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But they’re not, any more. Linux can handle 80-90% of all user >>>>>>> requirements, and 100% for typical users. I use either this iPad or my >>>>>>> Linux box for everything, and I can’t recall the last time I felt the need >>>>>>> to use windows. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can it handle 100 percent of corporate requirements though? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That’ why I said 80-90%. Some places have custom apps that depend on some >>>>> windows features - like the APL interface we’ve discussed. Sure they could >>>>> be rewritten, but it would probably be pricy. OTOH, you could always keep a >>>>> legacy windows box or two around for those things and use Linux for the >>>>> rest. Heck, you could probably run windows in a VM on Linux. Isn’t MSFT >>>>> developing something that lets you run windows or windows apps on Linux? >>>>> >>>>> I would think moving to Linux would save lots of money, although a company >>>>> would still want to pay for support. >>>> >>>> Just for openers how long will it take and what will it cost to >>>> retrain thousands of users on Linux and Office 365? >>> >>> No time at all. >>> Most users can't tell the difference. >>> I just read an article about how to make Linux act pretty much like W10. >>> Okay, here it is: >>> >>> https://kevq.uk/how-to-make-ubuntu-work-like-windows-10/ >> >> Windows XP is a great improvement over its successors. I never could stand >> anything after that. > > I suppose but the tinkertoy interface made me laugh. > Just looked like the whole appearance was designed for children > especially compared to NT. > Never used NT, so I can’t comment, but the default win-10 interface is 100 times worse. Fortunately, you can disable it. I set up my wife’s win-10 to look like XP. -- Pete
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| From | gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-13 19:08 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <rh3vib$to6$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #212735 |
On 13/08/2020 17:53, Peter Flass wrote: > > Windows XP is a great improvement over its successors. I never could stand > anything after that. +1 I have 2 XP machines here, one of which is a notepad and was what I used to keep going at the weekend when the W10 virussed itself.
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| From | "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-14 11:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <XnsAC197F9C2CC65admin127001@144.76.35.198> |
| In reply to | #212735 |
On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 16:53:58 GMT, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: > Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: >> >>> On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 17:35:54 -0700, Peter Flass >>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:38:28 -0700, Peter Flass >>>>> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>> On 2020-08-12, gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I do wonder whether Microsoft is intending to commit suicide by >>>>>>>> driving users into the arms of other OSs such as Linux or >>>>>>>> Android. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pissing off your customers is not the way to longevity. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unless you're a monopoly. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> But they’re not, any more. Linux can handle 80-90% of all user >>>>>> requirements, and 100% for typical users. I use either this iPad >>>>>> or my Linux box for everything, and I can’t recall the last >>>>>> time I felt the need to use windows. >>>>> >>>>> Can it handle 100 percent of corporate requirements though? >>>>> >>>> >>>> That’ why I said 80-90%. Some places have custom apps that depend >>>> on some windows features - like the APL interface we’ve >>>> discussed. Sure they could be rewritten, but it would probably be >>>> pricy. OTOH, you could always keep a legacy windows box or two >>>> around for those things and use Linux for the rest. Heck, you could >>>> probably run windows in a VM on Linux. Isn’t MSFT developing >>>> something that lets you run windows or windows apps on Linux? >>>> >>>> I would think moving to Linux would save lots of money, although a >>>> company would still want to pay for support. >>> >>> Just for openers how long will it take and what will it cost to >>> retrain thousands of users on Linux and Office 365? >> >> No time at all. >> Most users can't tell the difference. >> I just read an article about how to make Linux act pretty much like >> W10. Okay, here it is: >> >> https://kevq.uk/how-to-make-ubuntu-work-like-windows-10/ > > Windows XP is a great improvement over its successors. I never could > stand anything after that. > +1 This posted from a computer running XP, though moving from 98 was probably unnecessary; I dont use this PC as as server -- Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
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| From | usenet@only.tnx (Questor) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-14 03:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <5f36070e.11082005@news.dslextreme.com> |
| In reply to | #212714 |
On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 23:54:37 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: >>On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 17:35:54 -0700, Peter Flass >><peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:38:28 -0700, Peter Flass >>>><peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>On 2020-08-12, gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>I do wonder whether Microsoft is intending to commit suicide by driving >>>>>>>users into the arms of other OSs such as Linux or Android. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Pissing off your customers is not the way to longevity. >>>>>> >>>>>>Unless you're a monopoly. >>>>>> >>>>>But they're not, any more. Linux can handle 80-90% of all user >>>>>requirements, and 100% for typical users. I use either this iPad or my >>>>>Linux box for everything, and I can't recall the last time I felt the need >>>>>to use windows. >>>> >>>>Can it handle 100 percent of corporate requirements though? >>> >>>That's why I said 80-90%. Some places have custom apps that depend on some >>>windows features - like the APL interface we've discussed. Sure they could >>>be rewritten, but it would probably be pricy. OTOH, you could always keep a >>>legacy windows box or two around for those things and use Linux for the >>>rest. Heck, you could probably run windows in a VM on Linux. Isn't MSFT >>>developing something that lets you run windows or windows apps on Linux? >>> >>>I would think moving to Linux would save lots of money, although a company >>>would still want to pay for support. >> >> Just for openers how long will it take and what will it cost to >> retrain thousands of users on Linux and Office 365? > >No time at all. >Most users can't tell the difference. >I just read an article about how to make Linux act pretty much like W10. >Okay, here it is: > >https://kevq.uk/how-to-make-ubuntu-work-like-windows-10/ > >I've had Windows users set down at my Linux desktop and just start >typing away without noticing anything odd. Even though I'm running >Fvwm with my own highly configured environment. > >As for Office 365: > > Can you use Office 365 on Linux? > Microsoft has ported its first ever Office 365 app to Linux and it chose > Teams to be the one. While still in public preview, Linux users > interested in giving it a go should go here. According to a blog post by > Microsoft's Marissa Salazar, the Linux port will support all of the core > capabilities of the app. You so funny! In another thread you decry diversity in human language and wish for an end to the Tower of Babel, citing, among other arguments, the need for translators. And in this thread you make the opposite argument, supporting diversity and a "software Tower of Babel," apparently relying on the translation of different document formats. It seems to me the same reasoning should apply in either case. Apparently no one here has had extensive experience in corporate IT or doing a lot of end-user support. To begin with, Linux (and also Macintosh) do not have the tools necessary to remotely support and manage hundreds or thousands of PCs and their access to corporate network resources. While they may be subject to the same weaknesses as other Microsoft products, at least Windows has those tools. Also critical are programs from independent software vendors (ISV). An e-mail client, a browser, and an office suite are not enough for many employees. Just about every organization of sufficent size uses a handful of third-party applications; a large company may have dozens. It simply isn't economically feasible for most ISVs, which are often small firms serving a niche market, to port and support versions for Linux and/or the Macintosh. They simply don't have the customers for those platforms to generate the necessary revenue. For one example, consider a medium-sized hospital where I worked on an IT contract a few years back. The phone operators had a custom program to answer the phone and another to look up phone numbers, not only for departments and employees, but also for an ever-shifting roster of patients. The medical records department had one application to track patient diagnosis and treatment, and another to aid in the coding of same for insurance billing purposes. The accounting department had general ledger software and other programs for dealing with the insurance companies. The cafeteria used an application to plan patient menus and keep track of their food inventory. One of the most complicated programs was for scheduling nurses. Nurses are not generally interchangeable. Certifications, training, years of experience, and preferred shifts must all be taken into account. Oncology, cardiology, radiology... just about every department had at least one application specific to their needs. A similar situation exists in large corporations. Even if an ISV wanted to offer a Linux version of their software, there would be significant support issues. Which Linux distribution? What version? Which shell, which windows manager? Some of these make a difference in the programming, and some in being able to offer end-user support, especially remotely. Imagine walking a novice user through editing an .rc file with vi over the phone. Imagine having to be able to do that for any combination of Linux distribution and shell. There's also the training issue. Simply put, companies don't want to train employees. If they are using Linux and OpenOffice, where will they find qualified employees knowledgeable in that software? Saying that those programs are "pretty much like" Windows and Office isn't good enough. Currently the baseline in computer ability is competency with Windows and Office. Any organization using Microsoft products is assured of a large pool of potential employees with experience using the same. To be clear, I am not a fan of Microsoft. I think its dangerous to be dependent on a software monoculture, and my opinion is confirmed with every story about virus infections, data exfiltrations, and ransomware attacks. Like most people in alt.folklore.computers, I am technically savvy enough not to be beholden to Microsoft products should I chose. I also recognize that that is a very small minority of people, and that there are compelling economic reasons why most companies are Microsoft shops.
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-14 07:14 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <20200814071428.790ed0d44debdfdcc73e0173@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #212768 |
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 03:41:32 GMT usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote: > To begin with, Linux (and also Macintosh) do not have the tools necessary > to remotely support and manage hundreds or thousands of PCs and their > access to corporate network resources. While they may be subject to the > same weaknesses as other Microsoft products, at least Windows has those > tools. So things like puppet, salt, kubernetes etc don't exist ? They work just as well for desktops as for server farms. Your point about specialist software is a good one, applications come first then you choose from among the platforms that support the applications you need. > Even if an ISV wanted to offer a Linux version of their software, there > would be significant support issues. Which Linux distribution? What > version? Which shell, which windows manager? None of these are problems for any of the open source vendors, why should they be problems for anyone else ? -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-14 06:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <hpmq4gFmk1mU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #212774 |
On 2020-08-14, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 03:41:32 GMT
> usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
>
>> To begin with, Linux (and also Macintosh) do not have the tools necessary
>> to remotely support and manage hundreds or thousands of PCs and their
>> access to corporate network resources. While they may be subject to the
>> same weaknesses as other Microsoft products, at least Windows has those
>> tools.
>
> So things like puppet, salt, kubernetes etc don't exist ? They work
> just as well for desktops as for server farms.
Very good point, and I'd like to add Ansible to that list. It is IMHO
the most pleasant tool to manage configuration on remote hosts.
> Your point about specialist software is a good one, applications
> come first then you choose from among the platforms that support the
> applications you need.
Sure.
>> Even if an ISV wanted to offer a Linux version of their software, there
>> would be significant support issues. Which Linux distribution? What
>> version? Which shell, which windows manager?
>
> None of these are problems for any of the open source vendors, why
> should they be problems for anyone else ?
Makes sense.
Niklas
--
The best viewer I've found for MS-Powerpoint is "rm".
-- Roger BW
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-14 07:10 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <j4scjft9dhm6nvq1ntfgrcmvs587b1utlt@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #212775 |
On 14 Aug 2020 06:43:28 GMT, Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote: >On 2020-08-14, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: >> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 03:41:32 GMT >> usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote: >> >>> To begin with, Linux (and also Macintosh) do not have the tools necessary >>> to remotely support and manage hundreds or thousands of PCs and their >>> access to corporate network resources. While they may be subject to the >>> same weaknesses as other Microsoft products, at least Windows has those >>> tools. >> >> So things like puppet, salt, kubernetes etc don't exist ? They work >> just as well for desktops as for server farms. > >Very good point, and I'd like to add Ansible to that list. It is IMHO >the most pleasant tool to manage configuration on remote hosts. > >> Your point about specialist software is a good one, applications >> come first then you choose from among the platforms that support the >> applications you need. > >Sure. > >>> Even if an ISV wanted to offer a Linux version of their software, there >>> would be significant support issues. Which Linux distribution? What >>> version? Which shell, which windows manager? >> >> None of these are problems for any of the open source vendors, why >> should they be problems for anyone else ? > >Makes sense. What is an "open source vendor"? Open source is not "vended", it is put on GigHub or SourceForge and whoever wants it downloads it and beats it into submission if they want it badly enough. Most businesses want to be in the business of selling whatever product they make, not maintaining somebody else's code.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-14 13:43 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <av9i0h-7md.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #212783 |
On 14/08/2020 13.10, J. Clarke wrote: > On 14 Aug 2020 06:43:28 GMT, Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote: > >> On 2020-08-14, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: >>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 03:41:32 GMT >>> usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote: >>> >>>> To begin with, Linux (and also Macintosh) do not have the tools necessary >>>> to remotely support and manage hundreds or thousands of PCs and their >>>> access to corporate network resources. While they may be subject to the >>>> same weaknesses as other Microsoft products, at least Windows has those >>>> tools. >>> >>> So things like puppet, salt, kubernetes etc don't exist ? They work >>> just as well for desktops as for server farms. >> >> Very good point, and I'd like to add Ansible to that list. It is IMHO >> the most pleasant tool to manage configuration on remote hosts. >> >>> Your point about specialist software is a good one, applications >>> come first then you choose from among the platforms that support the >>> applications you need. >> >> Sure. >> >>>> Even if an ISV wanted to offer a Linux version of their software, there >>>> would be significant support issues. Which Linux distribution? What >>>> version? Which shell, which windows manager? >>> >>> None of these are problems for any of the open source vendors, why >>> should they be problems for anyone else ? >> >> Makes sense. > > What is an "open source vendor"? Open source is not "vended", it is > put on GigHub or SourceForge and whoever wants it downloads it and > beats it into submission if they want it badly enough. Most > businesses want to be in the business of selling whatever product they > make, not maintaining somebody else's code. > cer@Telcontar:~> rpm -qi rpm Name : rpm Version : 4.14.1 Release : lp151.14.3.1 Architecture: x86_64 Install Date: 2020-04-20T12:57:08 CEST Group : System/Packages Size : 4793456 License : GPL-2.0-or-later Signature : RSA/SHA256, 2020-04-13T16:15:51 CEST, Key ID b88b2fd43dbdc284 Source RPM : rpm-4.14.1-lp151.14.3.1.src.rpm Build Date : 2020-04-13T16:15:32 CEST Build Host : cloud126 Relocations : (not relocatable) Packager : http://bugs.opensuse.org Vendor : openSUSE <=========================== Summary : The RPM Package Manager Description : -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-14 07:50 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <jjucjfttboid86ah0nq9q4m4bk0isnl8j0@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #212789 |
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 13:43:06 +0200, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >On 14/08/2020 13.10, J. Clarke wrote: >> On 14 Aug 2020 06:43:28 GMT, Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote: >> >>> On 2020-08-14, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: >>>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 03:41:32 GMT >>>> usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote: >>>> >>>>> To begin with, Linux (and also Macintosh) do not have the tools necessary >>>>> to remotely support and manage hundreds or thousands of PCs and their >>>>> access to corporate network resources. While they may be subject to the >>>>> same weaknesses as other Microsoft products, at least Windows has those >>>>> tools. >>>> >>>> So things like puppet, salt, kubernetes etc don't exist ? They work >>>> just as well for desktops as for server farms. >>> >>> Very good point, and I'd like to add Ansible to that list. It is IMHO >>> the most pleasant tool to manage configuration on remote hosts. >>> >>>> Your point about specialist software is a good one, applications >>>> come first then you choose from among the platforms that support the >>>> applications you need. >>> >>> Sure. >>> >>>>> Even if an ISV wanted to offer a Linux version of their software, there >>>>> would be significant support issues. Which Linux distribution? What >>>>> version? Which shell, which windows manager? >>>> >>>> None of these are problems for any of the open source vendors, why >>>> should they be problems for anyone else ? >>> >>> Makes sense. >> >> What is an "open source vendor"? Open source is not "vended", it is >> put on GigHub or SourceForge and whoever wants it downloads it and >> beats it into submission if they want it badly enough. Most >> businesses want to be in the business of selling whatever product they >> make, not maintaining somebody else's code. >> >cer@Telcontar:~> rpm -qi rpm >Name : rpm >Version : 4.14.1 >Release : lp151.14.3.1 >Architecture: x86_64 >Install Date: 2020-04-20T12:57:08 CEST >Group : System/Packages >Size : 4793456 >License : GPL-2.0-or-later >Signature : RSA/SHA256, 2020-04-13T16:15:51 CEST, Key ID b88b2fd43dbdc284 >Source RPM : rpm-4.14.1-lp151.14.3.1.src.rpm >Build Date : 2020-04-13T16:15:32 CEST >Build Host : cloud126 >Relocations : (not relocatable) >Packager : http://bugs.opensuse.org >Vendor : openSUSE <=========================== >Summary : The RPM Package Manager >Description : Is that supposed to be relevant somehow?
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-14 14:06 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <nbbi0h-vrf.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #212792 |
On 14/08/2020 13.50, J. Clarke wrote: > On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 13:43:06 +0200, "Carlos E.R." > <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > >> On 14/08/2020 13.10, J. Clarke wrote: >>> On 14 Aug 2020 06:43:28 GMT, Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2020-08-14, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: >>>>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 03:41:32 GMT >>>>> usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> To begin with, Linux (and also Macintosh) do not have the tools necessary >>>>>> to remotely support and manage hundreds or thousands of PCs and their >>>>>> access to corporate network resources. While they may be subject to the >>>>>> same weaknesses as other Microsoft products, at least Windows has those >>>>>> tools. >>>>> >>>>> So things like puppet, salt, kubernetes etc don't exist ? They work >>>>> just as well for desktops as for server farms. >>>> >>>> Very good point, and I'd like to add Ansible to that list. It is IMHO >>>> the most pleasant tool to manage configuration on remote hosts. >>>> >>>>> Your point about specialist software is a good one, applications >>>>> come first then you choose from among the platforms that support the >>>>> applications you need. >>>> >>>> Sure. >>>> >>>>>> Even if an ISV wanted to offer a Linux version of their software, there >>>>>> would be significant support issues. Which Linux distribution? What >>>>>> version? Which shell, which windows manager? >>>>> >>>>> None of these are problems for any of the open source vendors, why >>>>> should they be problems for anyone else ? >>>> >>>> Makes sense. >>> >>> What is an "open source vendor"? Open source is not "vended", it is >>> put on GigHub or SourceForge and whoever wants it downloads it and >>> beats it into submission if they want it badly enough. Most >>> businesses want to be in the business of selling whatever product they >>> make, not maintaining somebody else's code. >>> >> cer@Telcontar:~> rpm -qi rpm >> Name : rpm >> Version : 4.14.1 >> Release : lp151.14.3.1 >> Architecture: x86_64 >> Install Date: 2020-04-20T12:57:08 CEST >> Group : System/Packages >> Size : 4793456 >> License : GPL-2.0-or-later >> Signature : RSA/SHA256, 2020-04-13T16:15:51 CEST, Key ID b88b2fd43dbdc284 >> Source RPM : rpm-4.14.1-lp151.14.3.1.src.rpm >> Build Date : 2020-04-13T16:15:32 CEST >> Build Host : cloud126 >> Relocations : (not relocatable) >> Packager : http://bugs.opensuse.org >> Vendor : openSUSE <=========================== >> Summary : The RPM Package Manager >> Description : > > Is that supposed to be relevant somehow? > You asked what is an open source vendor, and I answered to just that. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-14 13:36 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <dsidjf98to8sbv46h1pghtoda2aga23fhu@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #212793 |
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 14:06:47 +0200, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >On 14/08/2020 13.50, J. Clarke wrote: >> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 13:43:06 +0200, "Carlos E.R." >> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >> >>> On 14/08/2020 13.10, J. Clarke wrote: >>>> On 14 Aug 2020 06:43:28 GMT, Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 2020-08-14, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 03:41:32 GMT >>>>>> usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> To begin with, Linux (and also Macintosh) do not have the tools necessary >>>>>>> to remotely support and manage hundreds or thousands of PCs and their >>>>>>> access to corporate network resources. While they may be subject to the >>>>>>> same weaknesses as other Microsoft products, at least Windows has those >>>>>>> tools. >>>>>> >>>>>> So things like puppet, salt, kubernetes etc don't exist ? They work >>>>>> just as well for desktops as for server farms. >>>>> >>>>> Very good point, and I'd like to add Ansible to that list. It is IMHO >>>>> the most pleasant tool to manage configuration on remote hosts. >>>>> >>>>>> Your point about specialist software is a good one, applications >>>>>> come first then you choose from among the platforms that support the >>>>>> applications you need. >>>>> >>>>> Sure. >>>>> >>>>>>> Even if an ISV wanted to offer a Linux version of their software, there >>>>>>> would be significant support issues. Which Linux distribution? What >>>>>>> version? Which shell, which windows manager? >>>>>> >>>>>> None of these are problems for any of the open source vendors, why >>>>>> should they be problems for anyone else ? >>>>> >>>>> Makes sense. >>>> >>>> What is an "open source vendor"? Open source is not "vended", it is >>>> put on GigHub or SourceForge and whoever wants it downloads it and >>>> beats it into submission if they want it badly enough. Most >>>> businesses want to be in the business of selling whatever product they >>>> make, not maintaining somebody else's code. >>>> >>> cer@Telcontar:~> rpm -qi rpm >>> Name : rpm >>> Version : 4.14.1 >>> Release : lp151.14.3.1 >>> Architecture: x86_64 >>> Install Date: 2020-04-20T12:57:08 CEST >>> Group : System/Packages >>> Size : 4793456 >>> License : GPL-2.0-or-later >>> Signature : RSA/SHA256, 2020-04-13T16:15:51 CEST, Key ID b88b2fd43dbdc284 >>> Source RPM : rpm-4.14.1-lp151.14.3.1.src.rpm >>> Build Date : 2020-04-13T16:15:32 CEST >>> Build Host : cloud126 >>> Relocations : (not relocatable) >>> Packager : http://bugs.opensuse.org >>> Vendor : openSUSE <=========================== >>> Summary : The RPM Package Manager >>> Description : >> >> Is that supposed to be relevant somehow? >> > >You asked what is an open source vendor, and I answered to just that. So how do they "vend" something that is free as in speech and free as in beer?
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-14 19:41 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <9vui0h-dcq.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #212811 |
On 14/08/2020 19.36, J. Clarke wrote: > On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 14:06:47 +0200, "Carlos E.R." > <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > >> On 14/08/2020 13.50, J. Clarke wrote: >>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 13:43:06 +0200, "Carlos E.R." >>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> On 14/08/2020 13.10, J. Clarke wrote: >>>>> On 14 Aug 2020 06:43:28 GMT, Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 2020-08-14, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: >>>>>>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 03:41:32 GMT >>>>>>> usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To begin with, Linux (and also Macintosh) do not have the tools necessary >>>>>>>> to remotely support and manage hundreds or thousands of PCs and their >>>>>>>> access to corporate network resources. While they may be subject to the >>>>>>>> same weaknesses as other Microsoft products, at least Windows has those >>>>>>>> tools. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So things like puppet, salt, kubernetes etc don't exist ? They work >>>>>>> just as well for desktops as for server farms. >>>>>> >>>>>> Very good point, and I'd like to add Ansible to that list. It is IMHO >>>>>> the most pleasant tool to manage configuration on remote hosts. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Your point about specialist software is a good one, applications >>>>>>> come first then you choose from among the platforms that support the >>>>>>> applications you need. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sure. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Even if an ISV wanted to offer a Linux version of their software, there >>>>>>>> would be significant support issues. Which Linux distribution? What >>>>>>>> version? Which shell, which windows manager? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> None of these are problems for any of the open source vendors, why >>>>>>> should they be problems for anyone else ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Makes sense. >>>>> >>>>> What is an "open source vendor"? Open source is not "vended", it is >>>>> put on GigHub or SourceForge and whoever wants it downloads it and >>>>> beats it into submission if they want it badly enough. Most >>>>> businesses want to be in the business of selling whatever product they >>>>> make, not maintaining somebody else's code. >>>>> >>>> cer@Telcontar:~> rpm -qi rpm >>>> Name : rpm >>>> Version : 4.14.1 >>>> Release : lp151.14.3.1 >>>> Architecture: x86_64 >>>> Install Date: 2020-04-20T12:57:08 CEST >>>> Group : System/Packages >>>> Size : 4793456 >>>> License : GPL-2.0-or-later >>>> Signature : RSA/SHA256, 2020-04-13T16:15:51 CEST, Key ID b88b2fd43dbdc284 >>>> Source RPM : rpm-4.14.1-lp151.14.3.1.src.rpm >>>> Build Date : 2020-04-13T16:15:32 CEST >>>> Build Host : cloud126 >>>> Relocations : (not relocatable) >>>> Packager : http://bugs.opensuse.org >>>> Vendor : openSUSE <=========================== >>>> Summary : The RPM Package Manager >>>> Description : >>> >>> Is that supposed to be relevant somehow? >>> >> >> You asked what is an open source vendor, and I answered to just that. > > So how do they "vend" something that is free as in speech and free as > in beer? See the replies of others. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-14 18:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <OmAZG.144600$5_4.86800@fx40.iad> |
| In reply to | #212811 |
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: >On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 14:06:47 +0200, "Carlos E.R." >>> >> >>You asked what is an open source vendor, and I answered to just that. > >So how do they "vend" something that is free as in speech and free as >in beer? It's clear to most of us. And clear as well, to the customers of Redhat.
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-14 13:24 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <20200814132456.89743c29da890a5e0b6ae624@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #212792 |
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 07:50:27 -0400 J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 13:43:06 +0200, "Carlos E.R." > <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > > >On 14/08/2020 13.10, J. Clarke wrote: > >> On 14 Aug 2020 06:43:28 GMT, Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote: > >> > >>> On 2020-08-14, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: > >>>> None of these are problems for any of the open source > >>>> vendors, why should they be problems for anyone else ? > >>> > >>> Makes sense. > >> > >> What is an "open source vendor"? Open source is not "vended", it is Substitute "supplier" or "creator" if you wish. But also consider those rather large organisations behind such things as Firefox, Open/LibreOffice, Xorg, Emacs ... Vendor seems an appropriate name and common usage. > >Vendor : openSUSE <=========================== > >Summary : The RPM Package Manager > >Description : > > Is that supposed to be relevant somehow? A demonstration that the term is in use. I will grant you it is not technically correct but the meaning is clear. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-14 08:31 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <rh6067$n35$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #212783 |
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: > On 14 Aug 2020 06:43:28 GMT, Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote: > >>On 2020-08-14, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: >>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 03:41:32 GMT >>> usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote: >>> >>>> To begin with, Linux (and also Macintosh) do not have the tools necessary >>>> to remotely support and manage hundreds or thousands of PCs and their >>>> access to corporate network resources. While they may be subject to the >>>> same weaknesses as other Microsoft products, at least Windows has those >>>> tools. >>> >>> So things like puppet, salt, kubernetes etc don't exist ? They work >>> just as well for desktops as for server farms. >> >>Very good point, and I'd like to add Ansible to that list. It is IMHO >>the most pleasant tool to manage configuration on remote hosts. >> >>> Your point about specialist software is a good one, applications >>> come first then you choose from among the platforms that support the >>> applications you need. >> >>Sure. >> >>>> Even if an ISV wanted to offer a Linux version of their software, there >>>> would be significant support issues. Which Linux distribution? What >>>> version? Which shell, which windows manager? >>> >>> None of these are problems for any of the open source vendors, why >>> should they be problems for anyone else ? >> >>Makes sense. > > What is an "open source vendor"? Not the person you responded to, but I'd guess Redhat, Suse, any distro provider that addresses the corporate market and provides support? -- Dan Espen
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| From | J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-08-14 13:37 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ptidjf1pd04jmv19df6h65bpd9fosc28sn@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #212797 |
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 08:31:03 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote: >J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes: > >> On 14 Aug 2020 06:43:28 GMT, Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote: >> >>>On 2020-08-14, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: >>>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 03:41:32 GMT >>>> usenet@only.tnx (Questor) wrote: >>>> >>>>> To begin with, Linux (and also Macintosh) do not have the tools necessary >>>>> to remotely support and manage hundreds or thousands of PCs and their >>>>> access to corporate network resources. While they may be subject to the >>>>> same weaknesses as other Microsoft products, at least Windows has those >>>>> tools. >>>> >>>> So things like puppet, salt, kubernetes etc don't exist ? They work >>>> just as well for desktops as for server farms. >>> >>>Very good point, and I'd like to add Ansible to that list. It is IMHO >>>the most pleasant tool to manage configuration on remote hosts. >>> >>>> Your point about specialist software is a good one, applications >>>> come first then you choose from among the platforms that support the >>>> applications you need. >>> >>>Sure. >>> >>>>> Even if an ISV wanted to offer a Linux version of their software, there >>>>> would be significant support issues. Which Linux distribution? What >>>>> version? Which shell, which windows manager? >>>> >>>> None of these are problems for any of the open source vendors, why >>>> should they be problems for anyone else ? >>> >>>Makes sense. >> >> What is an "open source vendor"? > >Not the person you responded to, but I'd guess >Redhat, Suse, any distro provider that addresses the corporate >market and provides support? In other words a systems integrator.
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