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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #236265 > unrolled thread

Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

Started byLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
First post2026-10-31 21:38 +0000
Last post2026-11-02 13:58 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 429 — 28 participants

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Contents

  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000
    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:30 -0500
      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-01 10:16 +0000
        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:13 +0000
          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:35 -0800
            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:27 +0000
              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 13:50 -0800
                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 20:42 -0500
                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-03 16:38 +0800
                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 08:40 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:29 -0700
                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 02:02 +0800
                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 19:45 +0100
        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 18:17 -0500
          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-11-01 16:45 -0800
            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 21:00 -0500
              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 02:16 +0000
                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 04:48 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 14:13 +0800
                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 06:47 +0000
                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:02 +0800
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:48 +0000
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:17 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 19:37 -0700
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 21:54 -0500
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:51 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 04:24 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 23:31 -0500
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-06 08:46 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-06 07:41 -0700
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-06 14:30 +0100
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:53 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 06:13 +0800
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-07 01:12 +0100
                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:10 +0000
                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 03:56 -0500
                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:03 +0800
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:51 +0000
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:56 +0000
                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-11-04 19:48 +0000
                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 01:28 -0500
                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:41 +0100
                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:22 +0000
                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:11 +0800
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:57 +0000
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:20 +0100
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:45 +0100
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 11:49 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 13:02 +0100
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 13:26 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:35 -0700
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 18:06 +0100
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:52 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:48 -0700
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:45 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:51 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:29 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:28 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 22:15 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 22:47 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 23:18 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:12 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-04 08:26 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:20 +0000
                                        [OT] Fujitsu Horizon (was: Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:19 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Fujitsu Horizon Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-05 09:50 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:09 -0700
                                      Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 22:59 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:10 -0700
                                    Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:30 -0500
                                      Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:57 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 16:57 +0800
                                          Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 04:48 +0800
                                            Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:38 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:27 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:11 -0700
                                        Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:40 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:43 +0100
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:54 -0700
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:59 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:04 -0700
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 03:34 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-05 06:27 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:01 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-06 15:45 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:32 +0000
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:29 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:40 -0700
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:02 -0700
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-05 15:02 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 19:18 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:00 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:04 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 19:15 -0500
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 03:23 +0100
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:53 +0100
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:47 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 22:22 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:09 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:14 +0100
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:18 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 12:27 +0100
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:12 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 22:22 +0100
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 15:59 -0700
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:35 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-06 23:09 -0500
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:45 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-07 07:37 -0700
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 22:49 +0800
                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-07 14:54 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-07 13:31 -0500
                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-08 02:56 +0800
                                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-11-08 21:19 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-07 20:03 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-07 20:56 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 21:53 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-08 01:23 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:25 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:45 +0100
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 03:33 +0800
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:05 +0000
                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:08 +0100
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 21:12 -0500
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 15:13 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:27 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 21:37 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:01 +0100
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:18 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:09 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:51 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:02 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:54 -0500
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 23:02 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:58 -0500
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-07 16:04 -1000
                                      NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-08 05:59 -0800
                                        Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 08:11 -1000
                                        Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 21:31 +0000
                                          Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-08 13:45 -0800
                                            Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 12:21 -1000
                                            Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 23:51 +0000
                                              Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-08 20:33 -0700
                                                Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-08 22:59 -0500
                                                  Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-09 07:32 -1000
                                                  Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-09 21:20 +0000
                                                    Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-09 22:07 -0500
                                                      Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 10:37 +0100
                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-10 12:22 +0000
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-10 06:31 -0800
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:14 +0000
                                                            Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-10 20:36 +0000
                                                              Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 23:09 +0000
                                                              Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 12:00 +0100
                                                                Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-11 06:32 -0800
                                                                  Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-11 07:56 -0700
                                                                Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-11 07:41 -0700
                                                                  Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-11 21:48 +0000
                                                                Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 15:35 +0000
                                                            Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-10 23:46 -0500
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 21:53 +0100
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-10 22:07 +0000
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-10 21:23 -0500
                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 07:35 -0700
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 22:45 +0000
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-10 23:25 -0500
                                                            Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 15:31 +0000
                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-10 07:29 -1000
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-10 07:55 -1000
                                                            Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 12:19 -0700
                                                              Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 23:09 +0000
                                                              Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-11 03:59 +0000
                                                                Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-11 09:08 +0000
                                                                  Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-11 12:31 +0000
                                                                    Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-11 20:33 +0000
                                                                      Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-11 17:25 -0800
                                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-12 10:36 +0100
                                                                        Airliners and travel time (was: Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-12 10:32 +0000
                                                                      Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-12 02:06 +0000
                                                                      Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-12 08:11 +0000
                                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-12 15:21 +0000
                                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-12 15:29 +0000
                                                                        Re: what's a boat, was mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-12 19:38 +0000
                                                                          Re: what's a boat, was mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-12 20:11 +0000
                                                                    Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-11 21:19 +0000
                                                                      Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-11 21:50 +0000
                                                                  Re: up in the air, what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-11 22:52 +0000
                                                                    Re: up in the air, what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 03:44 +0000
                                                                      Re: up in the air, what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-12 00:50 -0500
                                                                        Re: up in the air, what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 18:46 +0000
                                                                          Re: up in the air, what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-12 21:51 +0100
                                                                            Re: up in the air, what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 22:41 +0000
                                                                              Re: up in the air, what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-12 23:10 +0000
                                                                              Re: up in the air, what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-13 07:31 +0000
                                                                            Re: up in the air, what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-12 23:31 +0000
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 12:16 -0700
                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-10 22:14 +0000
                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-10 21:43 +0000
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 12:03 +0100
                                                            Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-11 12:36 +0000
                                                              Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 15:41 +0000
                                                              Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-11 08:42 -0800
                                                                Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-11 16:49 +0000
                                                                  Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-11 17:18 +0000
                                                                    Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-11 10:06 -0800
                                                                    Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-11 18:13 +0000
                                                                    Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-11 21:57 +0000
                                                                      Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 03:44 +0000
                                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-12 00:39 -0500
                                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-12 06:18 +0000
                                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 18:46 +0000
                                                                            Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-12 20:38 +0000
                                                                              Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 22:41 +0000
                                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-12 07:32 -0700
                                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-12 17:16 +0100
                                                                            Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-12 20:46 +0000
                                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-12 19:56 +0000
                                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-12 20:43 +0000
                                                                            Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-12 14:11 -0700
                                                                              Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 22:41 +0000
                                                                                Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-12 16:57 -0700
                                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-12 15:10 +0000
                                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 18:46 +0000
                                                                    Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-11 19:03 -0800
                                                                      Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-12 06:22 +0000
                                                                      Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-12 07:28 +0000
                                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-12 07:41 -0700
                                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-12 15:09 +0000
                                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 18:46 +0000
                                                                  Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-11 20:33 +0000
                                                                  Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 22:38 +0100
                                                                    Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 22:21 +0000
                                                                      Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-12 00:20 +0100
                                                                    Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 03:44 +0000
                                                                      Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-12 10:40 +0100
                                                                  PCs and Mainframes (Re: what's a mainframe) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-11 18:50 -0800
                                                              Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-12 23:07 +0000
                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 22:44 +0000
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 12:15 +0100
                                                            Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-11 07:45 -0700
                                                              Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-12 06:35 +0000
                                                                Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-12 07:26 +0000
                                                                  Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-12 07:55 +0000
                                                                  Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-12 08:24 +0000
                                                                    Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-12 09:50 -0800
                                                                    Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 18:46 +0000
                                                                      Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-12 19:42 +0000
                                                                    Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-12 19:44 +0000
                                                                  Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-12 07:40 -0700
                                                                Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-12 10:51 +0100
                                                            Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 15:47 +0000
                                                              Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 22:36 +0100
                                                                Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-12 06:41 +0000
                                                            Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-12 06:32 +0000
                                                              Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-12 10:49 +0100
                                                                Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-13 02:05 +0000
                                                              Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-12 07:37 -0700
                                                                Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-12 15:27 +0000
                                                                Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-12 20:33 +0000
                                                              Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-13 07:33 +0000
                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-10 21:42 -0500
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 15:23 +0000
                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-12 10:33 +0000
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-12 21:00 +0000
                                                            Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 22:41 +0000
                                                              Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-13 01:58 +0000
                                                                Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-12 20:00 -0700
                                                                  Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-13 04:38 +0000
                                                                Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-13 04:00 +0000
                                                            Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-13 00:09 +0000
                                                  Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-10 07:09 +0000
                                                    Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 07:27 +0000
                                                      Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 10:50 +0100
                                                        Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 07:37 -0700
                                                          Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:18 +0000
                                                          Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 22:02 +0100
                                                          Re: torn tape skates, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-10 22:19 +0000
                                                            Re: torn tape skates, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 12:09 +0100
                                                          Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-10 23:29 -0500
                                                            Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 12:19 +0100
                                                        Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 19:55 +0000
                                                      Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-10 10:45 +0000
                                                    Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:16 +0000
                                                    Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
                                                      Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 19:57 +0000
                                                Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-09 04:42 +0000
                                                  Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-09 10:01 +0000
                                                    Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-10 20:51 +0000
                                                Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-09 11:08 +0000
                                              Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-09 15:59 +0000
                                          Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-09 09:38 +0800
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 08:32 -1000
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 21:32 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 11:55 -1000
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-08 21:49 -0500
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:34 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:08 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:36 -0700
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:13 +0800
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 20:58 +0000
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:49 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:53 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 04:44 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:27 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:41 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:58 +0100
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:19 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:19 +0100
                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:24 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-05 15:48 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 19:17 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:52 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 09:28 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:25 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:53 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:57 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:44 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:05 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:27 +0100
                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:20 -0700
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:52 -0700
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:50 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:59 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:36 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 02:42 +0100
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:43 -0700
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 21:35 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:32 -0700
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-11-04 11:32 -0500
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 18:52 +0100
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 05:02 +0800
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-05 18:43 -0800
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-06 06:44 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-11-06 21:29 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 04:34 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:51 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-11-06 21:31 +0000
                                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-07 01:22 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-07 05:00 +0100
                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-07 04:12 +0000
                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-07 05:39 +0100
                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:37 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 06:25 +0800
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 22:01 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:53 -0500
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-03 19:28 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:01 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:41 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-04 01:13 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:50 +0100
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:31 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-11-03 19:16 +0100
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:31 -0700
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 02:13 +0800
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-03 05:28 -0800
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:00 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:42 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 03:29 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 04:00 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 04:05 +0000
                              Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 23:04 +0000
                                Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 23:05 -0500
                                  Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 04:15 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-04 00:14 -0500
                                      Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 18:24 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 06:21 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 07:10 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-04 07:00 -0500
                                          Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 18:28 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking  Speedy too seriously) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-11-04 16:50 -0500
                                          Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-06 03:02 +0100
                                            Re: [OT] what's a byte, was mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-06 02:44 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-05 19:57 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 16:01 -0700
                                            Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:06 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-06 02:50 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-06 15:25 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking  Speedy too seriously) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-11-04 16:44 -0500
                                    Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-06 17:30 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-07 04:33 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-07 07:30 -0700
                                          Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-07 19:40 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 15:18 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 02:59 +0100
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:29 -0500
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 03:16 +0100
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:23 -0500
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:18 +0100
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 03:17 +0000
                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 02:07 +0000
                        Re: [OT] highly reliable upgradable mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:06 +0000
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 03:54 +0000
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:54 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:13 +0000
                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:41 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 17:01 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:36 +0100
                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-03 07:10 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-03 05:44 -0800
                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:38 -0700
                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-03 22:16 +0000
                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:58 -0700
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:44 +0000
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-05 17:13 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:35 +0000
                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-11-03 21:11 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:09 +0000
            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:52 +0000
              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-02 15:35 +0000
          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:47 +0000
            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:16 +0800
              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:58 +0000

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#236814 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-11-12 06:32 +0000
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11d3mig$3mitg$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236766
On Wed, 11 Nov 2026 12:15:20 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote:

> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>.
>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 10:37:49 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
>>
>>> ... a key design aspect of mainframes back then was that I/O was
>>> not done by the CPU (like it was done on home computers were all
>>> I/O was entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off- loaded to
>>> peripherials that were essentially limited computers of their own
>>> ...
>>
>> Which made sense back when the CPU was a scarce and expensive
>> resource. It no longer made sense when that was no longer true.
>
> It still makes sense and that is borne out in hardware design. We
> haven't flipped back to polled I/O because "CPUs are faster than we
> know what to do with", quite the opposite: modern GPUs offload most
> the fancy 3D graphics processing (originally, these days it's also a
> lot of matrix math for AI), modern NICs offer a lot of offload
> (modern DC NICs are full on computers running Linux and e.g. handle
> network traffic encryption on their own, see e.g. NVidia Bluefield
> DPUs) and so on.

So really, you are saying that general-purpose CPUs are now offloading
work ... onto other general-purpose CPUs.

>> Nowadays we have millions of users on social media simultaneously,
>> but that request/response paradigm is no longer sufficient for the
>> real-time interaction requirements.
>
> The "Unix serial terminal" model never applied to web interactive
> traffic, that was always running on the "smart terminal doing local
> edits - mainframe style" model.

Again, you’re thinking in terms of an analogue of the old mainframe
block-mode terminal. Real-time interaction requirements on the Web
involve more than just the strict request/response model: you also
have AJAX and WebSockets to provide a far greater level of
interactivity. Block-mode terminals have no analogue to such
functionality.

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#236824 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromAlexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de>
Date2026-11-12 10:49 +0100
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<slrn11fb2te.3eniu.als@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de>
In reply to#236814
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2026 12:15:20 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>.
>>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 10:37:49 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... a key design aspect of mainframes back then was that I/O was
>>>> not done by the CPU (like it was done on home computers were all
>>>> I/O was entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off- loaded to
>>>> peripherials that were essentially limited computers of their own
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> Which made sense back when the CPU was a scarce and expensive
>>> resource. It no longer made sense when that was no longer true.
>>
>> It still makes sense and that is borne out in hardware design. We
>> haven't flipped back to polled I/O because "CPUs are faster than we
>> know what to do with", quite the opposite: modern GPUs offload most
>> the fancy 3D graphics processing (originally, these days it's also a
>> lot of matrix math for AI), modern NICs offer a lot of offload
>> (modern DC NICs are full on computers running Linux and e.g. handle
>> network traffic encryption on their own, see e.g. NVidia Bluefield
>> DPUs) and so on.
>
> So really, you are saying that general-purpose CPUs are now offloading
> work ... onto other general-purpose CPUs.

Yes and no. GPUs are very much not general purpose CPUs, as they are
highly optimizied for specific operations useful initially for fast
3D graphics and later on also for AI compute. The general purpose CPUs
in e.g. enterprise NICs are not for shovelling packets, but for extra
services like traffic encryption and other offloads, while the shovelling
of raw network packets is done by specialized hardware in the NICs.

>>> Nowadays we have millions of users on social media simultaneously,
>>> but that request/response paradigm is no longer sufficient for the
>>> real-time interaction requirements.
>>
>> The "Unix serial terminal" model never applied to web interactive
>> traffic, that was always running on the "smart terminal doing local
>> edits - mainframe style" model.
>
> Again, you’re thinking in terms of an analogue of the old mainframe
> block-mode terminal. Real-time interaction requirements on the Web
> involve more than just the strict request/response model: you also
> have AJAX and WebSockets to provide a far greater level of
> interactivity. Block-mode terminals have no analogue to such
> functionality.

You are thinking too much from a "what the user sees" perspective. Under
the hood all the "Real-time interaction requirements on the Web" boil down
to RPC traffic - be it a browser loading a page or the JavaScript running
on that page fetching more data. In fact one can think of the mainframe
block mode terminals as RPC clients, with the terminal user filling in
the RPC request and reading the RPC response directly, making the mainframe
(among other things) an RPC server long before that term became standard
technical lingo.

Kind regards,
           Alex.
-- 
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
 looks like work."                                      -- Thomas A. Edison

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#236867 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-11-13 02:05 +0000
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11d5r9e$fd1d$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236824
On Thu, 12 Nov 2026 10:49:34 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote:

> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2026 12:15:20 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>.
>>>> Nowadays we have millions of users on social media
>>>> simultaneously, but that request/response paradigm is no longer
>>>> sufficient for the real-time interaction requirements.
>>>
>>> The "Unix serial terminal" model never applied to web interactive
>>> traffic, that was always running on the "smart terminal doing
>>> local edits - mainframe style" model.
>>
>> Again, you’re thinking in terms of an analogue of the old mainframe
>> block-mode terminal. Real-time interaction requirements on the Web
>> involve more than just the strict request/response model: you also
>> have AJAX and WebSockets to provide a far greater level of
>> interactivity. Block-mode terminals have no analogue to such
>> functionality.
>
> You are thinking too much from a "what the user sees" perspective.

Perception doesn’t count. That’s reality. You can’t *pretend* to offer
interactivity: you really have to have support for interactivity built
into your architecture from the lowest levels up. You can’t build
per-character response on top of block mode.

> Under the hood all the "Real-time interaction requirements on the
> Web" boil down to RPC traffic - be it a browser loading a page or
> the JavaScript running on that page fetching more data.

WebSocket connections are asynchronous full-duplex connections --
that’s not “RPC” by any stretch.

Think of how “doomscrolling” works: the page is continually fetching
more data to update itself.

Think of how Discord works: type some text and press Enter, and your
message is immediately visible to everyone else on the same channel.
Just start typing, and others are notified of that, too, so they can
wait to see what you are going to say before adding their own
comments.

> In fact one can think of the mainframe block mode terminals as RPC
> clients ...

Maybe you can, but that’s not how the interactive Web works.

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#236829 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromPeter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com>
Date2026-11-12 07:37 -0700
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11d4iud$orj$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236814
On 11/11/26 23:32, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2026 12:15:20 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
> 
>> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> .
>>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 10:37:49 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... a key design aspect of mainframes back then was that I/O was
>>>> not done by the CPU (like it was done on home computers were all
>>>> I/O was entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off- loaded to
>>>> peripherials that were essentially limited computers of their own
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> Which made sense back when the CPU was a scarce and expensive
>>> resource. It no longer made sense when that was no longer true.
>>
>> It still makes sense and that is borne out in hardware design. We
>> haven't flipped back to polled I/O because "CPUs are faster than we
>> know what to do with", quite the opposite: modern GPUs offload most
>> the fancy 3D graphics processing (originally, these days it's also a
>> lot of matrix math for AI), modern NICs offer a lot of offload
>> (modern DC NICs are full on computers running Linux and e.g. handle
>> network traffic encryption on their own, see e.g. NVidia Bluefield
>> DPUs) and so on.
> 
> So really, you are saying that general-purpose CPUs are now offloading
> work ... onto other general-purpose CPUs.
> 
If you're going to develop an intelligent peripheral or controller, it 
makes both economic and technical sense to grab an off-the-shelf general 
purpose CPU. Postscript printers were an early example of this in the PC 
world. I think there were some systems where the printer had more 
compute power than the using system.

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#236836 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-11-12 15:27 +0000
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11d4lt6$1dju$7@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236829
On 12/11/2026 14:37, Peter Flass wrote:
> f you're going to develop an intelligent peripheral or controller, it 
> makes both economic and technical sense to grab an off-the-shelf general 
> purpose CPU. Postscript printers were an early example of this in the PC 
> world. I think there were some systems where the printer had more 
> compute power than the using system.

Indeed. The Apple Laserwriter had a  Motorola 68000 CPU running at 12 MHz
The Mac at that time had an 8MHz 68000...

-- 
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
..I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

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#236850 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-11-12 20:33 +0000
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11d57qd$8idc$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236829
On Thu, 12 Nov 2026 07:37:01 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

> On 11/11/26 23:32, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> So really, you are saying that general-purpose CPUs are now
>> offloading work ... onto other general-purpose CPUs.
>>
> If you're going to develop an intelligent peripheral or controller, it
> makes both economic and technical sense to grab an off-the-shelf general
> purpose CPU.

But the whole point of special-purpose hardware was that it could perform
special-purpose tasks faster/more efficiently than a general-purpose CPU.

But then those tasks gradually get more complex over time, and the
special-purpose hardware gains more of the characteristics of a
general-purpose CPU ...

... until you have to start the cycle again.

<https://www.deviantart.com/default-cube/art/Computer-Graphics-And-The-Wheel-Of-Reincarnation-654204041>

Of course, this topic drift is itself reinforcing the point that
the technological justification for the “mainframe” computing paradigm
just doesn’t stack up any more.

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#236873 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromThomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Date2026-11-13 07:33 +0000
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11d6egs$kfhb$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236814
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> schrieb:

> So really, you are saying that general-purpose CPUs are now offloading
> work ... onto other general-purpose CPUs.

Not "now".

Brooks wrote that one of the major design failures of the /360
was that they failed to realize their channel processors were,
in fact, computers.

Later on, I believe IBM also used microprocessors, and the 801 was
also used as a channel processor.

-- 
This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence,
artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity,
artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.

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#236756 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-11-10 21:42 -0500
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<nmadnb9ZHYmxS273nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#236717
On 11/10/26 04:37, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>> On 11/9/26 16:20, John Levine wrote:
>>> According to c186282  <c186282@nnada.net>:
>>>>     Noted in this group though - I/O arch diffs between
>>>>     mainframes and minis.
>>>>
>>>>     Will someone try to elaborate ?
>>>
>>> The classic difference is that mainframes have channels, so the
>>> processor sets up a bunch of work for the channel to do, the channel
>>> goes off and does it independently of the CPU. Minis had much less
>>> complex I/O controllers so they do more detailed stuff. An example I
>>> gave a few messages back was for a card reader. A mainframe starts a
>>> channel program, it reads in a card or maybe seveal cards, and reports
>>> back with an interrupt. On a mini there was an I/O operation to start
>>> the card reader, an interrupt for each column and an I/O to read it,
>>> and then something at the end to stop the reader or go to the next
>>> card.
>>>
>>> But that was 40 or 50 years ago.  These days even cheap generic disk
>>> controllers do more than channels did in the 1960s, e.g., keep a queue
>>> of requests and schedule them to minimize delay, and handle spare block
>>> replacement for bad blocks.
>>>
>>> Modern mainframes have extremely capable channels but the distinction is
>>> more about reliability and things like hardware and software upgrades in
>>> place without rebooting.
>>
>>     Ok ... so 'mainframes' as you saw them were more
>>     'directors' for distributed processing rather
>>     than THE processor.
> 
> No. The operating system and application software ran on the mainframe
> CPU. But - as described above - a key design aspect of mainframes back
> then was that I/O was not done by the CPU (like it was done on home
> computers were all I/O was entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off-
> loaded to peripherials that were essentially limited computers of their
> own:
>   - CPU tells I/O interface (channel): "Do this I/O"
>   - CPU goes back to computing, channel does some I/O heavy lifting
>   - channel has completed I/O and sends an "Hey, I'm done" interrupt
>     to the CPU
> 
> Which leaves most of the CPU free to do compute work instead of busily
> doing lots of I/O. This and other design concepts (like form based
> terminals doing local editing - think web forms filled in the browser, send
> as a whole form and processed as a single request by the server, instead
> of the server handling every keystroke on the terminal) enabled having
> thousands of interactive users on one mainframe, since the mainframe CPU
> did almost entirely compute (e.g. run the database and software for
> inventory, accounting, ...) and all I/O was offloaded to specialized
> computers (channels) acting as I/O interfaces. You essentially pay with
> extra complexity for a far more capable system.
> 
> Kind regards,
>             Alex.

   I kind of see what model you're describing.
   Really not THAT much different from what
   I outlined.

  "Smart" peripherials are good. CPU doesn't have
   to do nearly as much. The downside is that now
   you're hostage to the 'IQ' in the peripherials
   rather than fine managing/optimizing via the
   main CPU.

   Always some trade-offs.

   At least these days the devices are more
   "standardized". Plug in any USB device and
   it almost always 'just works' and uses the
   same set-up/send/receive commands. NOT so
   in the Old Days.

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#236777 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2026-11-11 15:23 +0000
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<HL%IS.1652$f83.1378@fx09.iad>
In reply to#236756
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes:
>On 11/10/26 04:37, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>> On 11/9/26 16:20, John Levine wrote:
>>>> According to c186282  <c186282@nnada.net>:
>>>>>     Noted in this group though - I/O arch diffs between
>>>>>     mainframes and minis.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Will someone try to elaborate ?
 <snip>
>> Which leaves most of the CPU free to do compute work instead of busily
>> doing lots of I/O. This and other design concepts (like form based
>> terminals doing local editing - think web forms filled in the browser, send
>> as a whole form and processed as a single request by the server, instead
>> of the server handling every keystroke on the terminal) enabled having
>> thousands of interactive users on one mainframe, since the mainframe CPU
>> did almost entirely compute (e.g. run the database and software for
>> inventory, accounting, ...) and all I/O was offloaded to specialized
>> computers (channels) acting as I/O interfaces. You essentially pay with
>> extra complexity for a far more capable system.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>>             Alex.
>
>   I kind of see what model you're describing.
>   Really not THAT much different from what
>   I outlined.
>
>  "Smart" peripherials are good. CPU doesn't have
>   to do nearly as much. The downside is that now
>   you're hostage to the 'IQ' in the peripherials
>   rather than fine managing/optimizing via the
>   main CPU.

How is that a downside?

Modern peripherals seem to do quite well at
both maanging and optimizing without interactions
with the main CPU.   There are lots of knobs
that can be used to tune the behavior of the
peripheral controller(s).   Particularly in the
ethernet networking space - managing traffic classes,
handling encryption, adding/removing headers
(e.g. MPLS or other tunnelling schemes) are all
implemented in the controller (with control and
tuning knobs available to the operating system).

Some of the controllers I work with are even more
complex (e.g. radio area networks, front-haul,
back-haul, etc).

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#236827 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

Fromantispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch)
Date2026-11-12 10:33 +0000
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11d44ma$mojq$2@paganini.bofh.team>
In reply to#236717
In alt.folklore.computers Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> wrote:
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>> On 11/9/26 16:20, John Levine wrote:
>>> According to c186282  <c186282@nnada.net>:
>>>>    Noted in this group though - I/O arch diffs between
>>>>    mainframes and minis.
>>>>
>>>>    Will someone try to elaborate ?
>>> 
>>> The classic difference is that mainframes have channels, so the
>>> processor sets up a bunch of work for the channel to do, the channel
>>> goes off and does it independently of the CPU. Minis had much less
>>> complex I/O controllers so they do more detailed stuff. An example I
>>> gave a few messages back was for a card reader. A mainframe starts a
>>> channel program, it reads in a card or maybe seveal cards, and reports
>>> back with an interrupt. On a mini there was an I/O operation to start
>>> the card reader, an interrupt for each column and an I/O to read it,
>>> and then something at the end to stop the reader or go to the next
>>> card.
>>> 
>>> But that was 40 or 50 years ago.  These days even cheap generic disk
>>> controllers do more than channels did in the 1960s, e.g., keep a queue
>>> of requests and schedule them to minimize delay, and handle spare block
>>> replacement for bad blocks.
>>> 
>>> Modern mainframes have extremely capable channels but the distinction is
>>> more about reliability and things like hardware and software upgrades in
>>> place without rebooting.
>>
>>    Ok ... so 'mainframes' as you saw them were more
>>    'directors' for distributed processing rather
>>    than THE processor.
> 
> No. The operating system and application software ran on the mainframe
> CPU. But - as described above - a key design aspect of mainframes back
> then was that I/O was not done by the CPU (like it was done on home
> computers were all I/O was entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off-
> loaded to peripherials that were essentially limited computers of their
> own:

That is only part of the story.  Most important IO on home computers
was to video screen.  Most home computers did that in hardware.
Some had extra processing, like sprites on Commodore 64.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch

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#236856 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-11-12 21:00 +0000
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11d59e5$8idc$9@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236827
On Thu, 12 Nov 2026 10:33:48 -0000 (UTC), Waldek Hebisch wrote:

> Most important IO on home computers was to video screen. Most home
> computers did that in hardware. Some had extra processing, like
> sprites on Commodore 64.

An early Sinclair machine (ZX80? ZX81?) cut costs by having the screen
refresh managed by the CPU in place of dedicated hardware. Every time
you pressed a key on the keyboard, the screen would go blank for a
fraction of a second, while the CPU stopped screen refresh to process
your input.

Distracting, yes, but then, what else could you get for that price?

The early Apple Mac models didn’t have dedicated VRAM. Instead, part
of main DRAM was used for the screen display and the sound buffers.
The hardware for refreshing these stole cycles from the CPU to do its
updates; thus, the nominal CPU speed of 7.8336MHz was effectively
reduced by about 1-2MHz as a result of this memory contention.

The Amiga had the cleverest video hardware of this era, in the form of
the “copper” chip. Instead of a simple RAM buffer for video, this
implemented a display list, where each scan line of the display could
come from a different block of memory. This allowed for all kinds of
clever tricks by fiddling list pointers while the screen was still
being redrawn; these were fast because you didn’t need to copy large
blocks of memory around.

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#236860 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-11-12 22:41 +0000
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<3grJS.9792$If3.2516@fx33.iad>
In reply to#236856
On 2026-11-12, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> The Amiga had the cleverest video hardware of this era, in the form of
> the “copper” chip. Instead of a simple RAM buffer for video, this
> implemented a display list, where each scan line of the display could
> come from a different block of memory. This allowed for all kinds of
> clever tricks by fiddling list pointers while the screen was still
> being redrawn; these were fast because you didn’t need to copy large
> blocks of memory around.

"Copper" was short for "co-processor".  Yup, you could say it was a
form of channel.  The Amiga also had a boatload of DMA channels.

Omigod, there goes the line between PC and mainframe again...

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#236866 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-11-13 01:58 +0000
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11d5qso$fd1d$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236860
On Thu, 12 Nov 2026 22:41:03 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> "Copper" was short for "co-processor". Yup, you could say it was a
> form of channel. The Amiga also had a boatload of DMA channels.
>
> Omigod, there goes the line between PC and mainframe again...

Did mainframes have channel controllers where you could dynamically
alter the program as the channel was running?

Somehow I don’t think they did -- there would have been no “business”
use for such functionality. You just set up the program, sent the
START command to the channel, and went away and did something else
until it told you it had finished.

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#236869 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromPeter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com>
Date2026-11-12 20:00 -0700
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11d5ufj$gcm3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236866
On 11/12/26 18:58, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2026 22:41:03 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> 
>> "Copper" was short for "co-processor". Yup, you could say it was a
>> form of channel. The Amiga also had a boatload of DMA channels.
>>
>> Omigod, there goes the line between PC and mainframe again...
> 
> Did mainframes have channel controllers where you could dynamically
> alter the program as the channel was running?
> 
> Somehow I don’t think they did -- there would have been no “business”
> use for such functionality. You just set up the program, sent the
> START command to the channel, and went away and did something else
> until it told you it had finished.

Yes, they did. I previously mentioned ISAM. Lynne could probably say 
more about this, but I believe that for a long time OS/360 programs 
using ISAM couldn't run in a virtual machine because of potential timing 
problems.

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#236871 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-11-13 04:38 +0000
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11d6490$ht1o$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236869
On Thu, 12 Nov 2026 20:00:03 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

> On 11/12/26 18:58, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 12 Nov 2026 22:41:03 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> "Copper" was short for "co-processor". Yup, you could say it was a
>>> form of channel. The Amiga also had a boatload of DMA channels.
>>>
>>> Omigod, there goes the line between PC and mainframe again...
>>
>> Did mainframes have channel controllers where you could dynamically
>> alter the program as the channel was running?
>>
>> Somehow I don’t think they did -- there would have been no
>> “business” use for such functionality. You just set up the program,
>> sent the START command to the channel, and went away and did
>> something else until it told you it had finished.
>
> Yes, they did. I previously mentioned ISAM. Lynne could probably say
> more about this, but I believe that for a long time OS/360 programs
> using ISAM couldn't run in a virtual machine because of potential
> timing problems.

That sounds more like a bug than a feature: it indicates that any
attempt to change the channel program while it was running just ended
up confusing the channel into misbehaving -- as opposed to redirecting
it gracefully onto a new path on the fly.

Remember, the Amiga was actually designed to cope with this: updates
to the display list were interlocked with the CPU to maintain
consistency.

Unlike your IBM mainframe, the Amiga designers had no choice but to do
it this way: the copper never stopped running, otherwise the user
would have no screen display to look at.

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#236870 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2026-11-13 04:00 +0000
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11d6200$251h$1@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#236866
It appears that Lawrence D�Oliveiro  <ldo@nz.invalid> said:
>On Thu, 12 Nov 2026 22:41:03 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> "Copper" was short for "co-processor". Yup, you could say it was a
>> form of channel. The Amiga also had a boatload of DMA channels.
>>
>> Omigod, there goes the line between PC and mainframe again...
>
>Did mainframes have channel controllers where you could dynamically
>alter the program as the channel was running?

It was possible for one channel command to write into another.  I think
I recall an example where there was variable length disk records where one
channel command read the length code into a subsequent command so it read
the right amount.

As someone else noted that didn't work under VM because it pinned the
required pages and rewrite the channel commands to point to the physical
adresses when the program did the Start I/O and didn't expect the
commands to be patched later.



-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#236865 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

Fromantispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch)
Date2026-11-13 00:09 +0000
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11d5kf3$p41s$2@paganini.bofh.team>
In reply to#236856
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2026 10:33:48 -0000 (UTC), Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> 
>> Most important IO on home computers was to video screen. Most home
>> computers did that in hardware. Some had extra processing, like
>> sprites on Commodore 64.
> 
> An early Sinclair machine (ZX80? ZX81?) cut costs by having the screen
> refresh managed by the CPU in place of dedicated hardware. Every time
> you pressed a key on the keyboard, the screen would go blank for a
> fraction of a second, while the CPU stopped screen refresh to process
> your input.
> 
> Distracting, yes, but then, what else could you get for that price?

I used ZX81 and do not remember anything like that.  My understanding
was that "normal" processing was done during vertical retrace, so
machine operated reasonably smoothly, but appeared to be much slower
than what CPU would allow.  BASIC had "fast" mode, were computations
were much faster, but there was nothing on display.

BTW: because of ZX81 I wrote "most" above instead of "all".

> The early Apple Mac models didn’t have dedicated VRAM. Instead, part
> of main DRAM was used for the screen display and the sound buffers.
> The hardware for refreshing these stole cycles from the CPU to do its
> updates; thus, the nominal CPU speed of 7.8336MHz was effectively
> reduced by about 1-2MHz as a result of this memory contention.

Something similar happended on ZX Spectrum, 16 KB memory block was
shared between video and program use and program access to this
block was slower.

Similar thing was normal on mainframes: heavy channel activity
competed with CPU access.  And before caches could lead to significant
slowdown.  360/30 were worse: standard channel was implemented
by microcode running on the same CPU as 360 emulation, so
channel acitivity directly competed for CPU with user program.

> The Amiga had the cleverest video hardware of this era, in the form of
> the “copper” chip. Instead of a simple RAM buffer for video, this
> implemented a display list, where each scan line of the display could
> come from a different block of memory. This allowed for all kinds of
> clever tricks by fiddling list pointers while the screen was still
> being redrawn; these were fast because you didn’t need to copy large
> blocks of memory around.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch

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#236714 — Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromThomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Date2026-11-10 07:09 +0000
SubjectRe: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11cufut$1ud0f$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236684
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> schrieb:

>    Noted in this group though - I/O arch diffs between
>    mainframes and minis.

I have a somewhat personal definition of a mainframe, which I also
includes the classical ones.

A mainframe is a computer that

- is very expensive
- takes large resources to run (a computer center)
- has very good performance in at least one field
- is not a cluster, massively parallel etc

As computers have evolved, the field of performance has shifted.
The 704 and the Cray-1 both had high computing performance for
their day, but low reliability.  The 360/30 was slow, but had
good I/O capabilities.

Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but
they have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a
bullet through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you
don't hit the Recovery Unit), good I/O and lots of sub-processors
to lighten the load on the CPU.

I read that, when minis came along, their first defining
characteristic was that they didn't need computer center resources
and fit in a single room.

-- 
This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence,
artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity,
artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.

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#236715 — Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-11-10 07:27 +0000
SubjectRe: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11cuh1m$1ugqa$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236714
On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 07:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:

> Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they
> have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet
> through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit
> the Recovery Unit) ...

Cloud providers like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc offer much higher
reliability through massive parallelism, based on cheap, yet highly
redundant hardware running a Free Software stack that is not priced
per CPU. That is much more cost-effective and any equivalent number of
mainframes. And there is no “Recovery Unit” that you can shoot at to
take it out.

The nice thing is, you can run the same sort of “enterprise-class”
setup that the big folks operate in your own homelab, because all the
foundation software they use is available to you, too
<https://docs.xcp-ng.org/vms/vm-migration/>.

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#236716 — Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromAlexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de>
Date2026-11-10 10:50 +0100
SubjectRe: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<slrn11f5q78.2l8ql.als@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de>
In reply to#236715
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 07:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:
>
>> Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they
>> have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet
>> through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit
>> the Recovery Unit) ...
>
> Cloud providers like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc offer much higher
> reliability through massive parallelism, based on cheap, yet highly
> redundant hardware running a Free Software stack that is not priced
> per CPU. That is much more cost-effective and any equivalent number of
> mainframes. And there is no “Recovery Unit” that you can shoot at to
> take it out.
>
> The nice thing is, you can run the same sort of “enterprise-class”
> setup that the big folks operate in your own homelab, because all the
> foundation software they use is available to you, too
><https://docs.xcp-ng.org/vms/vm-migration/>.

Not exactly the same. The mainframe design philosophy includes "The
machine MUST NOT fail", for which one pays in complexity and system
cost. As long as your workload fits on that single machine (or a
small cluster (Parallel Sysplex)) and is of the "MUST NOT fail"
nature, fine.

Highly distributed systems like those run and offered by the hyperscalers
are built on an entirely different design philosophy:
 - _everything_ fails all the time (law of big numbers: take the MTBF
   for a compute component, run a lot of them and you've got a steady
   rain of failures, e.g. say you've got an MTBF of 1 million hours and
   you run 2 million of these devices, then on average you'll have a
   failure every half hour)
 - deal with it
 - run a software stack that is highly distributed and highly redundant,
   e.g. do not just store one or two copies of data, store 4 copies
   of the data plus two copies of the recovery checksums so you still
   recover the data after losing some pieces
 - you will end up with impressive complexity because building a reliable
   system on top of unreliable components is not easy
 - it helps a lot if your workloads can tolerate small to tiny amounts
   of failure (e.g. loading a web page times out, uploading a file fails)
   - but reliable operations (such as a planet scale consistent database)
     are doable, they just need more work and smarts
 - one key aspect: well designed highly distributed system scale very
   well, a scale-up factor of 10 without any system changes aside from
   adding more hardware falls under "baseline capability" and much higher
   scale-ups are the norm

Kind regards,
           Alex.
-- 
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
 looks like work."                                      -- Thomas A. Edison

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