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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #236265 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-11-02 13:58 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 385 — 28 participants |
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Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:30 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-01 10:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:35 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 13:50 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 20:42 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-03 16:38 +0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 08:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:29 -0700
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 02:02 +0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 19:45 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 18:17 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-11-01 16:45 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 21:00 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 02:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 04:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 14:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 06:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:02 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:17 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 19:37 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 21:54 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 04:24 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 23:31 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-06 08:46 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-06 07:41 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-06 14:30 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 06:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-07 01:12 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 03:56 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:03 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:56 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-11-04 19:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 01:28 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:41 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:22 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:11 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:20 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:45 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 11:49 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 13:02 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 13:26 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:35 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 18:06 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:48 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:45 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:29 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 22:15 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 22:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 23:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:12 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-04 08:26 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:20 +0000
[OT] Fujitsu Horizon (was: Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Fujitsu Horizon Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-05 09:50 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:09 -0700
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 22:59 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:10 -0700
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:30 -0500
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 16:57 +0800
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 04:48 +0800
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:38 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:11 -0700
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:43 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:54 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:59 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:04 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 03:34 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-05 06:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-06 15:45 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:32 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:29 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:40 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:02 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-05 15:02 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 19:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:00 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:04 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 19:15 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 03:23 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:53 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 22:22 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:14 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 12:27 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:12 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 22:22 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 15:59 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-06 23:09 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:45 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-07 07:37 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 22:49 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-07 14:54 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-07 13:31 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-08 02:56 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-11-08 21:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-07 20:03 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-07 20:56 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 21:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-08 01:23 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:45 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 03:33 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:05 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:08 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 21:12 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 15:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 21:37 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:01 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:02 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:54 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 23:02 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:58 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-07 16:04 -1000
NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-08 05:59 -0800
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 08:11 -1000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 21:31 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-08 13:45 -0800
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 12:21 -1000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 23:51 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-08 20:33 -0700
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-08 22:59 -0500
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-09 07:32 -1000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-09 21:20 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-09 22:07 -0500
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 10:37 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-10 12:22 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-10 06:31 -0800
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:14 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-10 20:36 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 23:09 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 12:00 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-11 06:32 -0800
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-11 07:56 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-11 07:41 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-11 21:48 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 15:35 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-10 23:46 -0500
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 21:53 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-10 22:07 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-10 21:23 -0500
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 07:35 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 22:45 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-10 23:25 -0500
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 15:31 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-10 07:29 -1000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-10 07:55 -1000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 12:19 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 23:09 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-11 03:59 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-11 09:08 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-11 12:31 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-11 20:33 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-11 17:25 -0800
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-12 10:36 +0100
Airliners and travel time (was: Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-12 10:32 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-12 02:06 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-12 08:11 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-11 21:19 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-11 21:50 +0000
Re: up in the air, what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-11 22:52 +0000
Re: up in the air, what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 03:44 +0000
Re: up in the air, what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-12 00:50 -0500
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 12:16 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-10 22:14 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-10 21:43 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 12:03 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-11 12:36 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 15:41 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-11 08:42 -0800
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-11 16:49 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-11 17:18 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-11 10:06 -0800
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-11 18:13 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-11 21:57 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 03:44 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-12 00:39 -0500
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-12 06:18 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-11 19:03 -0800
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-12 06:22 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-12 07:28 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-11 20:33 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 22:38 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 22:21 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-12 00:20 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-12 03:44 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-12 10:40 +0100
PCs and Mainframes (Re: what's a mainframe) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-11 18:50 -0800
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 22:44 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 12:15 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-11 07:45 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-12 06:35 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-12 07:26 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-12 07:55 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-12 08:24 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-12 10:51 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 15:47 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 22:36 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-12 06:41 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-12 06:32 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-12 10:49 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-10 21:42 -0500
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-11 15:23 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-12 10:33 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-10 07:09 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 07:27 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 10:50 +0100
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 07:37 -0700
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:18 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 22:02 +0100
Re: torn tape skates, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-10 22:19 +0000
Re: torn tape skates, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 12:09 +0100
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-10 23:29 -0500
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-11 12:19 +0100
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 19:55 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-10 10:45 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:16 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 19:57 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-09 04:42 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-09 10:01 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-10 20:51 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-09 11:08 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-09 15:59 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-09 09:38 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 08:32 -1000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 21:32 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 11:55 -1000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-08 21:49 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:34 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:08 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:36 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 20:58 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:49 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 04:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:41 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:58 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:19 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:24 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-05 15:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 19:17 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 09:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:05 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:27 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:20 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:52 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:50 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:59 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:36 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 02:42 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:43 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 21:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:32 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-11-04 11:32 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 18:52 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 05:02 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-05 18:43 -0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-06 06:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-11-06 21:29 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 04:34 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-11-06 21:31 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-07 01:22 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-07 05:00 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-07 04:12 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-07 05:39 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:37 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 06:25 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 22:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:53 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-03 19:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:41 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-04 01:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:50 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:31 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-11-03 19:16 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:31 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 02:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-03 05:28 -0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:00 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 03:29 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 04:00 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 04:05 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 23:04 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 23:05 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 04:15 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-04 00:14 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 18:24 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 06:21 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 07:10 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-04 07:00 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 18:28 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-11-04 16:50 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-06 03:02 +0100
Re: [OT] what's a byte, was mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-06 02:44 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-05 19:57 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 16:01 -0700
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:06 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-06 02:50 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-06 15:25 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-11-04 16:44 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-06 17:30 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-07 04:33 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-07 07:30 -0700
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-07 19:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 15:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 02:59 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:29 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 03:16 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:23 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:18 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 03:17 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 02:07 +0000
Re: [OT] highly reliable upgradable mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:06 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 03:54 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:54 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:41 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 17:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:36 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-03 07:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-03 05:44 -0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:38 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-03 22:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:58 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-05 17:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-11-03 21:11 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-02 15:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:16 +0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:58 +0000
Page 12 of 20 — ← Prev page 1 … 10 11 [12] 13 14 … 20 Next page →
| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-12 06:35 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <11d3mnc$3mitg$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236775 |
On Wed, 11 Nov 2026 07:45:23 -0700, Peter Flass wrote: > Computing HARDWARE has gotten so much cheaper it makes sense to put > some intelligence into any device so "the computer" can just ask it > to do something and go do something else. Or, to put it another way, multiple CPU cores have become so commonplace that it is no longer considered a big deal to “waste” some of them busy-waiting without bogging down others that are doing actual useful work.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-12 07:26 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <11d3pmf$1sf4m$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236815 |
On 11/12/26 06:35, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Wed, 11 Nov 2026 07:45:23 -0700, Peter Flass wrote: > >> Computing HARDWARE has gotten so much cheaper it makes sense to put >> some intelligence into any device so "the computer" can just ask it >> to do something and go do something else. > > Or, to put it another way, multiple CPU cores have become so > commonplace that it is no longer considered a big deal to “waste” some > of them busy-waiting without bogging down others that are doing actual > useful work. I read their comments to be the exact opposite, and, FWIW, it does seem to me that event/interrupt driven software and devices have become more prevalent. I'm still having difficulty understanding the difference between a mainframe and a PC. The argument that mainframes have independent IO devices appears to become "more" independent IO devices, when it is pointed out PCs have independent IO devices. It sounds a bit like an argument that mainframes are mainframes because they use electricity, and when it is pointed out PCs also use electricity the argument becomes there is no comparison because mainframes use kilowatts and PCs only use a few watts. Everything is true, but the distinctions are blurred. But after Windows NT, I never understood the difference between a mini computer and a PC. Perhaps next we can do the difference between a SoC computer (which I'm actually using now) and a PC ;-).
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-12 07:55 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <11d3re3$3o1j5$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236817 |
On Thu, 12 Nov 2026 07:26:07 +0000, Pancho wrote: > On 11/12/26 06:35, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > >> On Wed, 11 Nov 2026 07:45:23 -0700, Peter Flass wrote: >> >>> Computing HARDWARE has gotten so much cheaper it makes sense to >>> put some intelligence into any device so "the computer" can just >>> ask it to do something and go do something else. >> >> Or, to put it another way, multiple CPU cores have become so >> commonplace that it is no longer considered a big deal to “waste” >> some of them busy-waiting without bogging down others that are >> doing actual useful work. > > I read their comments to be the exact opposite, and, FWIW, it does > seem to me that event/interrupt driven software and devices have > become more prevalent. *Everything* has “become more prevalent”, if you want to call it that, e.g.: * USB -- polling-based * Screen drawing -- locked to a fixed refresh rate * Networks and storage -- DMA-heavy, plus interrupts * Multiprocessor -- shared-memory-based communications, plus interrupts and polling (spinlocks) as the situation dictates So everything has its place somewhere. > I'm still having difficulty understanding the difference between a > mainframe and a PC. The difference is more to do with economics than technology. Once the economics no longer made sense, the distinction ceased to be important. That happened back in the 1980s; it is a testament to the sheer marketing prowess of the biggest mainframe company, IBM, that it took over another decade before the market actually noticed that it had become irrelevant. > But after Windows NT, I never understood the difference between a > mini computer and a PC. In the early days (1970s-1980s), the difference was, PCs were too limited to run “real” operating systems. As the hardware grew more powerful, PCs became more able to run minicomputer-class operating systems like Unix. Microsoft Windows was born in the era before this, and kept a lot of baggage from that early time. This became more and more of a handicap as time went on, and that’s what allowed Linux to flourish and basically conquer the entire rest of the computing market, apart from the desktop. Similarly to IBM, Microsoft’s sheer marketing prowess helped it to hold on to that market segment, even as it found itself completely surrounded as soon as it tried to step outside that. > Perhaps next we can do the difference between a SoC computer (which > I'm actually using now) and a PC ;-). “SoC” stands for “System-on-Chip”. It’s just the level of integration of the components, nothing more.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-12 08:24 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <11d3t4c$3oa24$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236817 |
On 12/11/2026 07:26, Pancho wrote: > But after Windows NT, I never understood the difference between a mini > computer and a PC. Perhaps next we can do the difference between a SoC > computer (which I'm actually using now) and a PC Fundamentally there isnt much. What counts is the target market for it. Its rare to have a SoC running 1024 users... ...Or a single user mainframe In fact if you go back to the TMS9900 series of chips these made lousy single user computers. The chipset was designed for efficient context switching in a multitasking environment PCs were single tasking single user machines and were never very good at multi-tasking - even running NT At that point, SCO Unix was already a better option and when Linux arrived it was a no brainer. Linux has all the features of a decent minicomputer system when running on *86 arch. Mainframes are optimised for extremely large numbers of users. Probably using intelligent terminals that send a batch of data after many keystrokes. Attached to extremely large databases. On very resilient hardware. Its not Duke Nukem, but it is for all that, a specialised application., -- “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the urge to rule it.” – H. L. Mencken
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| From | Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-12 10:51 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11fb310.3eniu.als@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> |
| In reply to | #236815 |
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2026 07:45:23 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> Computing HARDWARE has gotten so much cheaper it makes sense to put
>> some intelligence into any device so "the computer" can just ask it
>> to do something and go do something else.
>
> Or, to put it another way, multiple CPU cores have become so
> commonplace that it is no longer considered a big deal to “waste” some
> of them busy-waiting without bogging down others that are doing actual
> useful work.
Fun fact: spin locks (aka busy waiting) can be a much more efficient
method than the alternative because it avoids context switches ...
Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-11 15:47 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <560JS.1656$f83.546@fx09.iad> |
| In reply to | #236766 |
Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> writes: >Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 10:37:49 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote: >> >>> ... a key design aspect of mainframes back then was that I/O was not >>> done by the CPU (like it was done on home computers were all I/O was >>> entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off- loaded to peripherials >>> that were essentially limited computers of their own ... >> >> Which made sense back when the CPU was a scarce and expensive resource. >> It no longer made sense when that was no longer true. > >It still makes sense and that is borne out in hardware design. We haven't >flipped back to polled I/O because "CPUs are faster than we know what to >do with", quite the opposite: modern GPUs offload most the fancy 3D graphics >processing (originally, these days it's also a lot of matrix math for AI), >modern NICs offer a lot of offload (modern DC NICs are full on computers >running Linux and e.g. handle network traffic encryption on their own, >see e.g. NVidia Bluefield DPUs) and so on. https://www.marvell.com/products/data-processing-units.html These are all peripherals, either directly soldered on the mainboard, or via PCI-Express cards slots.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-11 22:36 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11f9nu9.37o09.als@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> |
| In reply to | #236781 |
Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> writes:
>>Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 10:37:49 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... a key design aspect of mainframes back then was that I/O was not
>>>> done by the CPU (like it was done on home computers were all I/O was
>>>> entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off- loaded to peripherials
>>>> that were essentially limited computers of their own ...
>>>
>>> Which made sense back when the CPU was a scarce and expensive resource.
>>> It no longer made sense when that was no longer true.
>>
>>It still makes sense and that is borne out in hardware design. We haven't
>>flipped back to polled I/O because "CPUs are faster than we know what to
>>do with", quite the opposite: modern GPUs offload most the fancy 3D graphics
>>processing (originally, these days it's also a lot of matrix math for AI),
>>modern NICs offer a lot of offload (modern DC NICs are full on computers
>>running Linux and e.g. handle network traffic encryption on their own,
>>see e.g. NVidia Bluefield DPUs) and so on.
>
> https://www.marvell.com/products/data-processing-units.html
>
> These are all peripherals, either directly soldered on
> the mainboard, or via PCI-Express cards slots.
I know, I've got some NVidia Bluefield 2 DPUs right here. 2x 25 GBit/s
SFP+ ports and an nice computer (8x Cortex A72 at 2+GHz, 16/32G of
ECC RAM and 64/128G of eMMC, running Linux) inside the card (with its
own Gigabit Ethernet port).
Friends of mine are playing with those a lot, first one of them managed
to run DOOM on it and the latest trick was connecting a BlueField 2 via
PCIe interface to a regular (if somewhat older) PC GPU and having the
Bluefield drive _that_ to run graphics. No "regular" PC required at all.
Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-12 06:41 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <11d3n2f$3mitg$7@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236793 |
On Wed, 11 Nov 2026 22:36:09 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > Friends of mine are playing with those a lot, first one of them > managed to run DOOM on it and the latest trick was connecting a > BlueField 2 via PCIe interface to a regular (if somewhat older) PC > GPU and having the Bluefield drive _that_ to run graphics. No > "regular" PC required at all. As an example of something that really does hark back to old mainframe-style ways of doing things, but in a good way, the RP2040 chip introduced in the Raspberry Pi Pico included a pair of onboard programmable I/O channel controllers that were specifically optimized for high-speed bit-banging, in a way that a general-purpose CPU could not match. How high-speed? Here <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaPJmCgseQw> is an early example: emulating the analog video output signal encoding from a 1980s-vintage BBC micro, in real time.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-12 06:32 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <11d3mig$3mitg$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236766 |
On Wed, 11 Nov 2026 12:15:20 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >. >> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 10:37:49 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote: >> >>> ... a key design aspect of mainframes back then was that I/O was >>> not done by the CPU (like it was done on home computers were all >>> I/O was entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off- loaded to >>> peripherials that were essentially limited computers of their own >>> ... >> >> Which made sense back when the CPU was a scarce and expensive >> resource. It no longer made sense when that was no longer true. > > It still makes sense and that is borne out in hardware design. We > haven't flipped back to polled I/O because "CPUs are faster than we > know what to do with", quite the opposite: modern GPUs offload most > the fancy 3D graphics processing (originally, these days it's also a > lot of matrix math for AI), modern NICs offer a lot of offload > (modern DC NICs are full on computers running Linux and e.g. handle > network traffic encryption on their own, see e.g. NVidia Bluefield > DPUs) and so on. So really, you are saying that general-purpose CPUs are now offloading work ... onto other general-purpose CPUs. >> Nowadays we have millions of users on social media simultaneously, >> but that request/response paradigm is no longer sufficient for the >> real-time interaction requirements. > > The "Unix serial terminal" model never applied to web interactive > traffic, that was always running on the "smart terminal doing local > edits - mainframe style" model. Again, you’re thinking in terms of an analogue of the old mainframe block-mode terminal. Real-time interaction requirements on the Web involve more than just the strict request/response model: you also have AJAX and WebSockets to provide a far greater level of interactivity. Block-mode terminals have no analogue to such functionality.
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| From | Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-12 10:49 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11fb2te.3eniu.als@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> |
| In reply to | #236814 |
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2026 12:15:20 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
>
>> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>.
>>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 10:37:49 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... a key design aspect of mainframes back then was that I/O was
>>>> not done by the CPU (like it was done on home computers were all
>>>> I/O was entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off- loaded to
>>>> peripherials that were essentially limited computers of their own
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> Which made sense back when the CPU was a scarce and expensive
>>> resource. It no longer made sense when that was no longer true.
>>
>> It still makes sense and that is borne out in hardware design. We
>> haven't flipped back to polled I/O because "CPUs are faster than we
>> know what to do with", quite the opposite: modern GPUs offload most
>> the fancy 3D graphics processing (originally, these days it's also a
>> lot of matrix math for AI), modern NICs offer a lot of offload
>> (modern DC NICs are full on computers running Linux and e.g. handle
>> network traffic encryption on their own, see e.g. NVidia Bluefield
>> DPUs) and so on.
>
> So really, you are saying that general-purpose CPUs are now offloading
> work ... onto other general-purpose CPUs.
Yes and no. GPUs are very much not general purpose CPUs, as they are
highly optimizied for specific operations useful initially for fast
3D graphics and later on also for AI compute. The general purpose CPUs
in e.g. enterprise NICs are not for shovelling packets, but for extra
services like traffic encryption and other offloads, while the shovelling
of raw network packets is done by specialized hardware in the NICs.
>>> Nowadays we have millions of users on social media simultaneously,
>>> but that request/response paradigm is no longer sufficient for the
>>> real-time interaction requirements.
>>
>> The "Unix serial terminal" model never applied to web interactive
>> traffic, that was always running on the "smart terminal doing local
>> edits - mainframe style" model.
>
> Again, you’re thinking in terms of an analogue of the old mainframe
> block-mode terminal. Real-time interaction requirements on the Web
> involve more than just the strict request/response model: you also
> have AJAX and WebSockets to provide a far greater level of
> interactivity. Block-mode terminals have no analogue to such
> functionality.
You are thinking too much from a "what the user sees" perspective. Under
the hood all the "Real-time interaction requirements on the Web" boil down
to RPC traffic - be it a browser loading a page or the JavaScript running
on that page fetching more data. In fact one can think of the mainframe
block mode terminals as RPC clients, with the terminal user filling in
the RPC request and reading the RPC response directly, making the mainframe
(among other things) an RPC server long before that term became standard
technical lingo.
Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-10 21:42 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <nmadnb9ZHYmxS273nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #236717 |
On 11/10/26 04:37, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >> On 11/9/26 16:20, John Levine wrote: >>> According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >>>> Noted in this group though - I/O arch diffs between >>>> mainframes and minis. >>>> >>>> Will someone try to elaborate ? >>> >>> The classic difference is that mainframes have channels, so the >>> processor sets up a bunch of work for the channel to do, the channel >>> goes off and does it independently of the CPU. Minis had much less >>> complex I/O controllers so they do more detailed stuff. An example I >>> gave a few messages back was for a card reader. A mainframe starts a >>> channel program, it reads in a card or maybe seveal cards, and reports >>> back with an interrupt. On a mini there was an I/O operation to start >>> the card reader, an interrupt for each column and an I/O to read it, >>> and then something at the end to stop the reader or go to the next >>> card. >>> >>> But that was 40 or 50 years ago. These days even cheap generic disk >>> controllers do more than channels did in the 1960s, e.g., keep a queue >>> of requests and schedule them to minimize delay, and handle spare block >>> replacement for bad blocks. >>> >>> Modern mainframes have extremely capable channels but the distinction is >>> more about reliability and things like hardware and software upgrades in >>> place without rebooting. >> >> Ok ... so 'mainframes' as you saw them were more >> 'directors' for distributed processing rather >> than THE processor. > > No. The operating system and application software ran on the mainframe > CPU. But - as described above - a key design aspect of mainframes back > then was that I/O was not done by the CPU (like it was done on home > computers were all I/O was entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off- > loaded to peripherials that were essentially limited computers of their > own: > - CPU tells I/O interface (channel): "Do this I/O" > - CPU goes back to computing, channel does some I/O heavy lifting > - channel has completed I/O and sends an "Hey, I'm done" interrupt > to the CPU > > Which leaves most of the CPU free to do compute work instead of busily > doing lots of I/O. This and other design concepts (like form based > terminals doing local editing - think web forms filled in the browser, send > as a whole form and processed as a single request by the server, instead > of the server handling every keystroke on the terminal) enabled having > thousands of interactive users on one mainframe, since the mainframe CPU > did almost entirely compute (e.g. run the database and software for > inventory, accounting, ...) and all I/O was offloaded to specialized > computers (channels) acting as I/O interfaces. You essentially pay with > extra complexity for a far more capable system. > > Kind regards, > Alex. I kind of see what model you're describing. Really not THAT much different from what I outlined. "Smart" peripherials are good. CPU doesn't have to do nearly as much. The downside is that now you're hostage to the 'IQ' in the peripherials rather than fine managing/optimizing via the main CPU. Always some trade-offs. At least these days the devices are more "standardized". Plug in any USB device and it almost always 'just works' and uses the same set-up/send/receive commands. NOT so in the Old Days.
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-11 15:23 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <HL%IS.1652$f83.1378@fx09.iad> |
| In reply to | #236756 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes: >On 11/10/26 04:37, Alexander Schreiber wrote: >> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>> On 11/9/26 16:20, John Levine wrote: >>>> According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >>>>> Noted in this group though - I/O arch diffs between >>>>> mainframes and minis. >>>>> >>>>> Will someone try to elaborate ? <snip> >> Which leaves most of the CPU free to do compute work instead of busily >> doing lots of I/O. This and other design concepts (like form based >> terminals doing local editing - think web forms filled in the browser, send >> as a whole form and processed as a single request by the server, instead >> of the server handling every keystroke on the terminal) enabled having >> thousands of interactive users on one mainframe, since the mainframe CPU >> did almost entirely compute (e.g. run the database and software for >> inventory, accounting, ...) and all I/O was offloaded to specialized >> computers (channels) acting as I/O interfaces. You essentially pay with >> extra complexity for a far more capable system. >> >> Kind regards, >> Alex. > > I kind of see what model you're describing. > Really not THAT much different from what > I outlined. > > "Smart" peripherials are good. CPU doesn't have > to do nearly as much. The downside is that now > you're hostage to the 'IQ' in the peripherials > rather than fine managing/optimizing via the > main CPU. How is that a downside? Modern peripherals seem to do quite well at both maanging and optimizing without interactions with the main CPU. There are lots of knobs that can be used to tune the behavior of the peripheral controller(s). Particularly in the ethernet networking space - managing traffic classes, handling encryption, adding/removing headers (e.g. MPLS or other tunnelling schemes) are all implemented in the controller (with control and tuning knobs available to the operating system). Some of the controllers I work with are even more complex (e.g. radio area networks, front-haul, back-haul, etc).
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| From | antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-12 10:33 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <11d44ma$mojq$2@paganini.bofh.team> |
| In reply to | #236717 |
In alt.folklore.computers Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> wrote:
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>> On 11/9/26 16:20, John Levine wrote:
>>> According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>:
>>>> Noted in this group though - I/O arch diffs between
>>>> mainframes and minis.
>>>>
>>>> Will someone try to elaborate ?
>>>
>>> The classic difference is that mainframes have channels, so the
>>> processor sets up a bunch of work for the channel to do, the channel
>>> goes off and does it independently of the CPU. Minis had much less
>>> complex I/O controllers so they do more detailed stuff. An example I
>>> gave a few messages back was for a card reader. A mainframe starts a
>>> channel program, it reads in a card or maybe seveal cards, and reports
>>> back with an interrupt. On a mini there was an I/O operation to start
>>> the card reader, an interrupt for each column and an I/O to read it,
>>> and then something at the end to stop the reader or go to the next
>>> card.
>>>
>>> But that was 40 or 50 years ago. These days even cheap generic disk
>>> controllers do more than channels did in the 1960s, e.g., keep a queue
>>> of requests and schedule them to minimize delay, and handle spare block
>>> replacement for bad blocks.
>>>
>>> Modern mainframes have extremely capable channels but the distinction is
>>> more about reliability and things like hardware and software upgrades in
>>> place without rebooting.
>>
>> Ok ... so 'mainframes' as you saw them were more
>> 'directors' for distributed processing rather
>> than THE processor.
>
> No. The operating system and application software ran on the mainframe
> CPU. But - as described above - a key design aspect of mainframes back
> then was that I/O was not done by the CPU (like it was done on home
> computers were all I/O was entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off-
> loaded to peripherials that were essentially limited computers of their
> own:
That is only part of the story. Most important IO on home computers
was to video screen. Most home computers did that in hardware.
Some had extra processing, like sprites on Commodore 64.
--
Waldek Hebisch
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-10 07:09 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <11cufut$1ud0f$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236684 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> schrieb: > Noted in this group though - I/O arch diffs between > mainframes and minis. I have a somewhat personal definition of a mainframe, which I also includes the classical ones. A mainframe is a computer that - is very expensive - takes large resources to run (a computer center) - has very good performance in at least one field - is not a cluster, massively parallel etc As computers have evolved, the field of performance has shifted. The 704 and the Cray-1 both had high computing performance for their day, but low reliability. The 360/30 was slow, but had good I/O capabilities. Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit the Recovery Unit), good I/O and lots of sub-processors to lighten the load on the CPU. I read that, when minis came along, their first defining characteristic was that they didn't need computer center resources and fit in a single room. -- This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence, artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity, artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-10 07:27 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <11cuh1m$1ugqa$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236714 |
On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 07:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote: > Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they > have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet > through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit > the Recovery Unit) ... Cloud providers like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc offer much higher reliability through massive parallelism, based on cheap, yet highly redundant hardware running a Free Software stack that is not priced per CPU. That is much more cost-effective and any equivalent number of mainframes. And there is no “Recovery Unit” that you can shoot at to take it out. The nice thing is, you can run the same sort of “enterprise-class” setup that the big folks operate in your own homelab, because all the foundation software they use is available to you, too <https://docs.xcp-ng.org/vms/vm-migration/>.
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| From | Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-10 10:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11f5q78.2l8ql.als@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> |
| In reply to | #236715 |
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 07:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:
>
>> Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they
>> have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet
>> through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit
>> the Recovery Unit) ...
>
> Cloud providers like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc offer much higher
> reliability through massive parallelism, based on cheap, yet highly
> redundant hardware running a Free Software stack that is not priced
> per CPU. That is much more cost-effective and any equivalent number of
> mainframes. And there is no “Recovery Unit” that you can shoot at to
> take it out.
>
> The nice thing is, you can run the same sort of “enterprise-class”
> setup that the big folks operate in your own homelab, because all the
> foundation software they use is available to you, too
><https://docs.xcp-ng.org/vms/vm-migration/>.
Not exactly the same. The mainframe design philosophy includes "The
machine MUST NOT fail", for which one pays in complexity and system
cost. As long as your workload fits on that single machine (or a
small cluster (Parallel Sysplex)) and is of the "MUST NOT fail"
nature, fine.
Highly distributed systems like those run and offered by the hyperscalers
are built on an entirely different design philosophy:
- _everything_ fails all the time (law of big numbers: take the MTBF
for a compute component, run a lot of them and you've got a steady
rain of failures, e.g. say you've got an MTBF of 1 million hours and
you run 2 million of these devices, then on average you'll have a
failure every half hour)
- deal with it
- run a software stack that is highly distributed and highly redundant,
e.g. do not just store one or two copies of data, store 4 copies
of the data plus two copies of the recovery checksums so you still
recover the data after losing some pieces
- you will end up with impressive complexity because building a reliable
system on top of unreliable components is not easy
- it helps a lot if your workloads can tolerate small to tiny amounts
of failure (e.g. loading a web page times out, uploading a file fails)
- but reliable operations (such as a planet scale consistent database)
are doable, they just need more work and smarts
- one key aspect: well designed highly distributed system scale very
well, a scale-up factor of 10 without any system changes aside from
adding more hardware falls under "baseline capability" and much higher
scale-ups are the norm
Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-10 07:37 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <11cva7o$27ikm$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236716 |
On 11/10/26 02:50, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 07:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote: >> >>> Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they >>> have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet >>> through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit >>> the Recovery Unit) ... >> >> Cloud providers like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc offer much higher >> reliability through massive parallelism, based on cheap, yet highly >> redundant hardware running a Free Software stack that is not priced >> per CPU. That is much more cost-effective and any equivalent number of >> mainframes. And there is no “Recovery Unit” that you can shoot at to >> take it out. >> >> The nice thing is, you can run the same sort of “enterprise-class” >> setup that the big folks operate in your own homelab, because all the >> foundation software they use is available to you, too >> <https://docs.xcp-ng.org/vms/vm-migration/>. > > Not exactly the same. The mainframe design philosophy includes "The > machine MUST NOT fail", for which one pays in complexity and system > cost. As long as your workload fits on that single machine (or a > small cluster (Parallel Sysplex)) and is of the "MUST NOT fail" > nature, fine. > > Highly distributed systems like those run and offered by the hyperscalers > are built on an entirely different design philosophy: > - _everything_ fails all the time (law of big numbers: take the MTBF > for a compute component, run a lot of them and you've got a steady > rain of failures, e.g. say you've got an MTBF of 1 million hours and > you run 2 million of these devices, then on average you'll have a > failure every half hour) Didn't I read somewhere that techs in large datacenters get around on rollerblades to swap out failing components?
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-10 15:18 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <8BGIS.9173$S23.4717@fx04.iad> |
| In reply to | #236724 |
Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> writes: >On 11/10/26 02:50, Alexander Schreiber wrote: >> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 07:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote: >>> >>>> Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they >>>> have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet >>>> through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit >>>> the Recovery Unit) ... >>> >>> Cloud providers like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc offer much higher >>> reliability through massive parallelism, based on cheap, yet highly >>> redundant hardware running a Free Software stack that is not priced >>> per CPU. That is much more cost-effective and any equivalent number of >>> mainframes. And there is no “Recovery Unit” that you can shoot at to >>> take it out. >>> >>> The nice thing is, you can run the same sort of “enterprise-class” >>> setup that the big folks operate in your own homelab, because all the >>> foundation software they use is available to you, too >>> <https://docs.xcp-ng.org/vms/vm-migration/>. >> >> Not exactly the same. The mainframe design philosophy includes "The >> machine MUST NOT fail", for which one pays in complexity and system >> cost. As long as your workload fits on that single machine (or a >> small cluster (Parallel Sysplex)) and is of the "MUST NOT fail" >> nature, fine. >> >> Highly distributed systems like those run and offered by the hyperscalers >> are built on an entirely different design philosophy: >> - _everything_ fails all the time (law of big numbers: take the MTBF >> for a compute component, run a lot of them and you've got a steady >> rain of failures, e.g. say you've got an MTBF of 1 million hours and >> you run 2 million of these devices, then on average you'll have a >> failure every half hour) > >Didn't I read somewhere that techs in large datacenters get around on >rollerblades to swap out failing components? > The Minneapolis Fed Reserve operators were reputed to have worn roller skates when sorting checks (the sorters, with full complement of pockets, were quite long).
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| From | Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-10 22:02 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <slrn11f71i9.2r6g7.als@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> |
| In reply to | #236724 |
Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:
> On 11/10/26 02:50, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
>> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 07:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>>
>>>> Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they
>>>> have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet
>>>> through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit
>>>> the Recovery Unit) ...
>>>
>>> Cloud providers like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc offer much higher
>>> reliability through massive parallelism, based on cheap, yet highly
>>> redundant hardware running a Free Software stack that is not priced
>>> per CPU. That is much more cost-effective and any equivalent number of
>>> mainframes. And there is no “Recovery Unit” that you can shoot at to
>>> take it out.
>>>
>>> The nice thing is, you can run the same sort of “enterprise-class”
>>> setup that the big folks operate in your own homelab, because all the
>>> foundation software they use is available to you, too
>>> <https://docs.xcp-ng.org/vms/vm-migration/>.
>>
>> Not exactly the same. The mainframe design philosophy includes "The
>> machine MUST NOT fail", for which one pays in complexity and system
>> cost. As long as your workload fits on that single machine (or a
>> small cluster (Parallel Sysplex)) and is of the "MUST NOT fail"
>> nature, fine.
>>
>> Highly distributed systems like those run and offered by the hyperscalers
>> are built on an entirely different design philosophy:
>> - _everything_ fails all the time (law of big numbers: take the MTBF
>> for a compute component, run a lot of them and you've got a steady
>> rain of failures, e.g. say you've got an MTBF of 1 million hours and
>> you run 2 million of these devices, then on average you'll have a
>> failure every half hour)
>
> Didn't I read somewhere that techs in large datacenters get around on
> rollerblades to swap out failing components?
You don't want that in a data center, because just it increases the risk
of injury even more. You already need aid stations around on the floor
for when, not if, someone gets hurt (usually scrapes or shallow cuts by
sharp-edged parts in the machines).
Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-10 22:19 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: torn tape skates, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) |
| Message-ID | <11d059k$1sic$4@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #236724 |
According to Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com>: >Didn't I read somewhere that techs in large datacenters get around on >rollerblades to swap out failing components? I don't think so. I've read that Google has people wandering around with grocery carts full of spare parts that they swap into failed servers. You don't want them banging into the racks. At the Western Union building at 60 Hudson St in NYC, they did manual messge switching, in which one teletype punched out a message on paper tape, they tore it off, then girls (we'd call them young women now) on skates zipped the tapes to other teletypes to send the message onward. I gather that one of the earliest large scale uses of minicomputers was to automate that process. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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