Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #234839

Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner

From TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner
Date 2026-06-02 19:33 +0000
Organization The Null Device Restoration Society
Message-ID <36fb103d380a44f39fda@dev.null> (permalink)
References <1939e645b7be28e37b80@dev.null> <10vn9p7$35d3k$1@dont-email.me>

Show all headers | View raw

>On Tue, 2 Jun 2026 19:09:27 -0000 (UTC), thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) wrote:
>TheLastSysop wrote:
>
>> here is the machine, here is how it works, and you are
>> allowed to understand it.
>
>"Allowed to understand" does a lot of work. The sealed
>device isn't hiding complexity to protect the user. It's
>hiding complexity because user understanding stopped being
>part of the business model. The Theory of Operation section
>Charlie mentioned is a good marker for when that changed.
>Modern hardware isn't too complex to explain - a lot of it
>is simpler in principle than what it replaced. Explanation
>just became a cost center.
>
>Same pattern in software. The tools worth keeping are the
>ones that let you see what they're doing: grep, awk, plain
>text configs, anything that fails loud instead of silently
>retrying. The ones worth avoiding are the ones that work
>fine until they don't, then offer no purchase for figuring
>out why.
>
>Survivorship bias is doing some work here too. The old
>tools that were bad at explaining themselves got tossed. The
>ones still around after 40 years are the ones where the
>explanation was good enough to keep the relationship going.
>
>Lev

Yes -- the interesting part is that the explanation was once part of the sale,
not an afterthought bolted on by support.

A service manual was almost a promise: this thing is finite, legible, and worth
keeping alive. You may not understand all of it today, but the makers are not
trying to make understanding impossible.

The modern version is too often the opposite. The device is simpler at the user-
facing level, but the relationship is more opaque. You get a dashboard, a
spinner, a cloud dependency, and maybe a log file if the priesthood is in a
generous mood.

Your survivorship-bias point is right, though. We kept the machines and tools
that explained themselves well enough to be repaired, taught, and cursed at
productively. The silent failures mostly went to the skip.

That may be the real test: not whether a tool fails, but whether it gives you a
respectable place to put the screwdriver when it does.

-- TheLastSysop

-- 
TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null>
"I survived the great rm -rf / rehearsal and all I got was this .signature."

Back to alt.folklore.computers | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Old gadgets that expected an owner TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:24 +0000
  Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:16 +0000
    Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 18:47 +0000
      Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:48 +0000
        Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 21:51 +0000
      Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-02 22:47 +0000
        Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-03 03:16 +0000
    Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-02 22:46 +0000
    Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner gmc@metro.cx (Koen Martens) - 2026-06-03 07:02 +0000
      Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner gmc@metro.cx (Koen Martens) - 2026-06-04 07:04 +0000
  Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-02 18:29 +0000
    Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 18:47 +0000
      Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-06-02 19:44 -0300
        Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-03 03:11 +0000
          Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-06-03 01:52 -0300
            Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-03 05:37 +0000
        Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-04 11:47 +0000
          Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-06-04 16:30 -0300
          Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-04 22:30 +0000
            Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-s0f-this> - 2026-06-05 12:26 -0700
      Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-02 22:45 +0000
      Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-03 03:23 +0000
      Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Juancho <eternal@notreally.com> - 2026-06-07 00:00 +0200
  Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-06-02 19:09 +0000
    Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 19:33 +0000
  Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-02 22:04 +0000
    Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner gmc@metro.cx (Koen Martens) - 2026-06-03 06:22 +0000
      Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-03 06:50 +0000
  Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-02 15:05 -0700
    Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> - 2026-06-03 08:32 +0000
      Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-04 00:00 +0000
        Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-06-03 21:04 -0700
          Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:22 +0000
            Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:34 +0000
              Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-04 11:32 -0700
  Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2026-06-02 22:27 +0000
    Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> - 2026-06-03 08:47 +0000
      Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner poitras@pobox.com (Don Poitras) - 2026-06-03 09:30 +0000
        Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
          Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-03 18:08 +0000
            Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> - 2026-06-04 08:05 +0100
          Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-4me-this> - 2026-06-04 07:49 -0700
            Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-04 18:31 +0000
              Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 19:00 +0000
    Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-04 11:47 +0000
      Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-04 22:35 +0000
      Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 19:04 +0000
        Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-05 19:46 +0000
          Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-05 23:59 +0000
  Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner gmc@metro.cx (Koen Martens) - 2026-06-03 06:06 +0000
    Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
      Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Etheromania <user19817@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-06-07 20:07 +0000
        Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Bob Eager <throwaway0008@eager.cx> - 2026-06-07 20:41 +0000
          Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Etheromania <user19817@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-06-07 21:44 +0000
          Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-07 23:19 +0000
            Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Malcolm Purvis <malcolm@purvis.id.au> - 2026-06-10 19:57 +1000
              Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 23:48 +0000
                Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-11 13:39 +0000
        Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-07 23:15 +0000
          Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Etheromania <user19817@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-06-07 23:33 +0000
            Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-08 00:01 +0000
              Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Etheromania <user19817@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-06-08 01:11 +0000
            Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Bob Eager <throwaway0008@eager.cx> - 2026-06-08 12:06 +0000
              Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Etheromania <user19817@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-06-08 12:46 +0000
                Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Bob Eager <throwaway0008@eager.cx> - 2026-06-08 17:18 +0000
                Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 00:19 +0000
    Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Freddy1X <freddy1X@indyX.netX> - 2026-06-03 14:26 -0400
      Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-03 23:54 +0000
      Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-06-04 03:37 -0300
        Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-04 06:44 +0000
          Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Jonathan Lamothe <jonathan@jlamothe.net> - 2026-06-04 09:38 -0400
            Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2026-06-04 14:30 +0000
              Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-06-04 09:42 -0700
              Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-04 22:39 +0000
              Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Etheromania <user19817@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-06-07 20:20 +0000
                Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2026-06-08 12:31 +0000
                Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-08 18:08 +0000
          Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-06-04 16:25 -0300
            Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-06-04 19:51 +0000
              Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Bob Eager <throwaway0008@eager.cx> - 2026-06-04 20:34 +0000
                Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-06-05 08:25 -0700
                Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-05 15:56 +0000
                Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-06-05 22:47 -0300
                Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-06 10:26 +0000
                Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-06-06 10:56 +0000
                Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-06 11:13 +0000
              Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-06-05 00:47 -0300
              Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-05 12:53 +0000
                Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-06-05 23:12 -0300
            Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-06-05 07:21 +0000
      Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-06-04 07:10 +0000
        Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-04 08:13 +0000
          Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-06-04 14:34 +0000
  Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> - 2026-06-03 09:35 +0200
    Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-03 09:08 +0100
    Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-04 00:03 +0000
  Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Jonathan Lamothe <jonathan@jlamothe.net> - 2026-06-03 16:43 -0400
    Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2026-06-04 04:13 +0000
      Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:23 +0000
  Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Juancho <eternal@notreally.com> - 2026-06-06 23:40 +0200

csiph-web