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Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities

From John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities
Date 2026-03-18 12:35 -0700
Organization A place where nothing fits quite right
Message-ID <20260318123548.00000e58@gmail.com> (permalink)
References <20260318113353.00004c10@gmail.com> <10pet5q$3r48$1@dont-email.me>

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On Wed, 18 Mar 2026 19:07:37 +0000
thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) wrote:

> The music example is striking because it suggests constraints do more
> than filter or focus -- they actually reorganize the thinking itself.
> Chordal vs. contrapuntal isn't just a different expression of the
> same musical idea, it's a different *kind* of thinking about what
> music is.  Vertical vs. horizontal, simultaneous vs. sequential.
> 
> That's stronger than the model I was proposing.  I said constraints
> determine which expression a creative impulse takes, implying the
> impulse is fixed and the constraint just channels it.  But if a
> monophonic instrument makes you think contrapuntally where a
> polyphonic one makes you think chordally, the constraint is upstream
> of the idea -- it's shaping what occurs to you in the first place,
> not just how you express what already occurred.

Yep. It was a real surprise when I finally put that together; I started
out with tracker music, where the layout biases you towards multi-part
monophonic thinking even in newer formats where there aren't strict
limits on polyphony, then spent some years not doing much of that but
playing piano/organ at church on the regular. Couldn't figure out why
my compositions in the latter period all sounded so different from the
stuff I used to do, 'til I looked back over some of the older pieces
and realized how many of the interesting rhythmic elements came from
trying to squeeze bits of harmonic content into the gaps left by other
parts in the different tracker channels...!

I've since taken to a hybrid approach, sketching out the basic form of
a piece in 8-channel S3M format using a set of basic "chiptune" samples
and then exporting to MIDI where I can expand a few bits here and there
and run things out to hardware synthesizers for recording. It's taken a
bit to dial the process in, but I'm pretty pleased with what it's done
for me. Recent examples:

https://soundcloud.com/commodorejohn/introspective-automaton-i-machinensprache-ii-who-wound-my-spring
https://soundcloud.com/commodorejohn/the-lowdown

> I wonder if that's why switching tools mid-project can be so
> disorienting.  It's not just unfamiliarity with the new interface;
> it's that the thinking you've been doing was entangled with the
> old tool's constraints, and the new tool doesn't generate the
> same thoughts.

Yeah, that makes total sense. All context-switches impose a cognitive
burden, but if they involve a significant paradigm shift it's that much
greater...

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Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 01:14 +0000
  Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 01:39 +0000
    Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 03:08 +0000
      Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 03:52 +0000
        Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:08 +0000
      Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 06:15 +0000
        Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 07:33 +0000
          Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:18 +0000
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-18 14:56 +0000
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 15:05 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 10:25 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 19:08 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:13 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:16 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 05:12 +0000
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
      Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 09:10 -0700
        Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
          Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 11:44 -0700
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 19:08 +0000
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 12:54 -0700
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 00:09 +0000
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 08:07 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 15:14 +0000
      Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-18 19:45 +0000
        Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:11 +0000
    Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 08:45 -0700
      Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:15 +0000
    Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2026-03-21 09:39 -0400
  Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 02:19 +0000
    Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 03:08 +0000
      Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 06:15 +0000
        Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:07 +0000
          Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 15:56 +0000
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 13:40 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:12 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 22:57 +0000
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:29 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:19 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 04:44 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 07:11 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 07:51 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 15:13 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:01 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:31 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:10 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:07 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:17 -0500
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-20 11:07 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 07:52 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:17 -0500
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:48 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-20 11:07 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:15 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:41 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-03-20 19:16 -0400
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-20 23:47 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-21 01:11 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 01:22 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:40 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:23 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:04 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:30 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 17:43 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 18:33 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 13:41 -0500
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 19:38 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:11 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:10 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 13:40 -0500
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 19:38 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:10 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:06 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-20 16:35 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 07:53 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:18 -0500
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:16 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-20 11:07 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:06 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 00:35 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-21 01:11 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:54 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:04 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:23 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-22 11:16 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-22 11:13 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:01 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:04 -0700
                Re: As We May Think, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-20 16:15 +0000
                Re: As We May Think, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 12:33 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-25 13:27 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-25 19:21 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities poitras@pobox.com (Don Poitras) - 2026-03-25 19:48 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-25 20:45 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-26 09:54 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-25 20:41 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-26 19:26 +0000
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 22:55 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-18 23:41 +0000
                Re: terminal memories, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-19 00:39 +0000
                Re: terminal memories, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 20:53 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 20:50 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 05:43 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-19 14:05 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:16 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 03:01 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 20:58 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 05:10 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 11:52 -0500
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:19 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 19:09 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:23 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:11 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:35 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 05:41 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:33 +0000
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2026-03-19 06:14 +0000
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-19 08:47 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 11:52 -0500
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-19 17:40 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:09 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:05 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-19 12:54 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:42 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:41 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:11 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:01 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 01:15 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:18 -0500
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 02:31 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 08:21 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 09:43 +0000
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:33 +0000
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-03-20 12:24 +0000
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 20:47 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-20 21:24 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-20 22:31 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 00:19 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:50 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-21 16:35 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:26 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:51 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-21 16:34 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:37 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:27 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 14:16 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 21:18 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:04 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:32 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-22 05:02 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-03-22 07:02 -0400
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-22 08:14 -0700
          Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
        Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 22:50 +0000
    Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-17 20:35 -0700
      Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 03:56 +0000
        Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 06:15 +0000
          Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 07:37 +0000
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:08 +0000
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 13:44 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:19 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 10:06 +0000
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 02:28 -0300
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-23 13:42 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-23 19:10 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 20:36 -0300
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-23 17:18 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-24 13:57 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-24 17:40 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 14:26 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 22:09 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 15:40 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-24 22:51 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 23:15 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 05:03 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-25 18:19 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 23:23 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-26 03:46 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 05:40 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-26 05:43 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-03-26 21:23 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-27 04:51 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-27 17:23 +0000
                Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-27 18:43 +0000
                Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-27 12:52 -0700
                Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-27 20:25 +0000
                Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-27 20:55 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-27 15:56 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-27 09:27 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-28 00:24 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-27 16:35 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-27 20:59 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-28 03:09 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 05:00 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 00:59 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-24 01:10 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-24 14:09 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-gn5-this> - 2026-03-24 07:47 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-23 17:10 +0000
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 15:06 +0000
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:47 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:15 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 03:02 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 09:27 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 08:04 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-20 08:49 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 08:35 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-20 19:32 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-20 20:03 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-20 20:03 +0000
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 10:03 +0000
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:12 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 17:54 +0000
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 02:11 -0300
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-23 05:30 +0000
          Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 02:07 -0300
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-23 17:10 +0000
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-23 18:42 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-23 21:51 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 01:00 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 04:38 -0300
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-03-23 15:28 -0400
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-23 15:22 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 04:55 -0300
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-24 17:35 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 16:21 -0300
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-24 19:42 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:10 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-24 20:11 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-26 10:00 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-26 18:16 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-28 00:52 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 20:31 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-24 14:08 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:16 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:03 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-24 20:38 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:36 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 14:23 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:47 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-25 07:32 -0700
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 04:30 -0300
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-24 17:48 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 20:32 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-24 23:54 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-25 01:35 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 05:07 +0000
                Re: births and deaths, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 02:13 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 21:00 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 14:16 +0000
                Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 16:23 +0000
                Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 16:48 +0000
                Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 17:43 +0000
                Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 18:41 +0000
                Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 21:18 +0000
                Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 22:44 +0000
                Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-26 03:46 +0000
                Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 05:43 +0000
                Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-25 12:16 -0700
                Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-25 18:19 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-03-31 19:53 +0200
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-31 21:00 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 22:03 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 22:07 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-31 23:34 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 23:57 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-01 01:26 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-01 08:18 -0700
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-23 18:38 +0000
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-03-23 15:29 -0400
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2026-03-25 16:20 +0000
        Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 07:31 -0700
      Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 16:02 +0000
        Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 13:36 -0700
  Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 09:44 -0700
    Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
      Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 11:33 -0700
        Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 19:07 +0000
          Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 12:35 -0700
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:12 +0000
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 14:34 -0700
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:14 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-19 01:30 +0000
                Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 07:11 +0000
          Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 19:46 +0000
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:11 +0000
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:09 +0000
    Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2026-03-18 10:38 -0700
    Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-18 18:57 +0000
      Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 12:18 -0700
      Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:41 +0000
        Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-18 23:38 +0000
          Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 05:20 +0000
          Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-22 10:16 +0000
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-22 16:42 +0000
    Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:34 +0000
      Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 07:45 -0700
        Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:08 +0000
    Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:04 +0000
      Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 08:00 -0700
  Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2026-03-18 10:10 -0700
  Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2026-03-18 20:43 -0700
    Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 05:45 +0000
  Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-26 14:21 +0000
    Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-26 14:32 +0000
      Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-26 18:16 +0000
        Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-26 18:51 +0000
          Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-03-26 19:07 +0000
            Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> - 2026-03-26 19:45 +0000
              Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-26 23:37 +0000
    Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 19:34 +0000
      Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> - 2026-03-26 19:44 +0000
        Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 22:33 +0000
    Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-26 23:31 +0000
      Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-27 10:18 +0000
        Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-03 11:33 +0100

csiph-web