Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > alt.conspiracy > #268504 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-09-27 09:47 +0200 |
| Last post | 2015-10-12 04:14 -0500 |
| Articles | 5 on this page of 25 — 2 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.conspiracy
Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-09-27 09:47 +0200
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 05:36 -0500
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-09-27 20:55 +0200
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 15:59 -0500
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-09-28 05:56 +0200
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-09-28 03:35 -0500
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-09-29 02:35 +0200
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 04:43 -0500
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-09-30 04:06 +0200
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-09-30 04:24 -0500
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-09-30 20:58 +0200
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-10-01 07:51 +0200
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-10-01 04:46 -0500
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-10-03 06:56 +0200
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-10-03 03:48 -0500
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-10-04 04:50 +0200
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-10-04 04:02 -0500
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-10-05 05:48 +0200
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-10-05 03:40 -0500
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-10-06 05:24 +0200
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-10-06 04:44 -0500
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-10-11 00:22 +0200
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-10-11 04:13 -0500
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2015-10-12 06:11 +0200
Re: Medicating Childhood-An American Zombie Apocalypse "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-10-12 04:14 -0500
Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]
| From | "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-06 04:44 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <l4k61blaqu38sh3a4kg01rqed2rqlm72tv@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #269196 |
On Tue, 06 Oct 2015 05:24:21 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
wrote:
>Am 05.10.2015 10:40, schrieb K Wills (Shill #3):
>> On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 05:48:47 +0200, Thomas Heger<ttt_heg@web.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Am 04.10.2015 11:02, schrieb K Wills (Shill #3):
>>> ...
>>>>>> Freud is dead and, contrary to your claim above, is not involved
>>>>>> in anything. Let alone anything questionable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Freud was a pioneer of psychology. It is more like he invented it, than
>>>>> he participated.
>>>>>
>>>>> His personal contribution is called 'psychoanalysis'. That was Freud's
>>>>> 'psycho-method'.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now the question is: what is the intention of this method?
>>>>
>>>> No, the question is; Why did you claim he is, present tense,
>>>> "involved into something at least questionable" when he's dead and
>>>> can't be involved in anything?
>>>>
>>>>> The method is known for extremely long lasting cures of very uncertain
>>>>> success.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apparently 'success' is a relative term and success for Freud was not
>>>>> necessarily success for his patients.
>>>>>
>>>>> But this violates fundamental ethics of medicine, since who is
>>>>> practising medicine has to do it for and in service of the patient. This
>>>>> means, that only the patient defines, what is good practise in medicine
>>>>> (by success in respect to his illness).
>>>>
>>>> I'm going to guess a Freudian analysis concluded you're mentally
>>>> ill and you harbor resentment about it. Am I right?
>>>
>>> What would you think, why Freud tries to analyse the mind (instead of
>>> curing the personality)?
>>
>> One can't be treated, or cured, until the ailment is known.
>
>Psychoanalysis is not based on the analysis of the staus quo, but tries
>to find early trauma and analyse that.
>
For some, early trauma will be the cause. But not for all. And
Freudian psychology doesn't make the claim you assign.
>'Ailment' refers to the current situation. In case of mental problems we
>would expect, the doctor examines the patient and ask him about his
>problems.
>
>But Freud regarded the analysis as a cure.
>
No, he did not.
>In my eyes this is way to backward oriented.
>
In my eyes, you're lying. Again.
>Instead it is useful to enhance the patients life in general, what would
>have positive effects on the mind, too.
>
>So a patient should try to eliminate harmful habits, to become less
>self-destructive. Also bad influences from the environment should be
>reduced.
>
While this would be of benefit, to a degree, no rational person
would believe it alone could cure a mental illness.
>Positive feedback, that stems from physical exercises, useful work,
>better food or even cleaner clothes could be a means to stabilise and
>enhance the mental functions.
>
They won't hurt, but they will not cure a mental illness.
>The analysis of early trauma may actually do more harm then benefit (my
>opinion).
Like your assumptions, your opinions are not facts and quite
pointless.
[Snip the rest since an opinion is not a fact.]
Stick with facts that can be verified.
--
Shill #3. Current Psychotronic World Dominator and FEMA camp
counselor
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-11 00:22 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <d7the6Frer9U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #269209 |
Am 06.10.2015 11:44, schrieb K Wills (Shill #3): .. >>>> What would you think, why Freud tries to analyse the mind (instead of >>>> curing the personality)? >>> >>> One can't be treated, or cured, until the ailment is known. >> >> Psychoanalysis is not based on the analysis of the staus quo, but tries >> to find early trauma and analyse that. >> > > For some, early trauma will be the cause. But not for all. And > Freudian psychology doesn't make the claim you assign. > >> 'Ailment' refers to the current situation. In case of mental problems we >> would expect, the doctor examines the patient and ask him about his >> problems. >> >> But Freud regarded the analysis as a cure. >> > > No, he did not. Freud used the name 'Psychoanalyse' for his method to treat neurotic people. So he apparently had the idea, this method would help neurotic people to recover from mental illness. But it's worth mentioning WHAT he regarded as a disease: 'neurosis' was not based on whether or not people suffer, but whether or not people would fit into the society. So Freud belongs to the caste of 'social engineers', who dream about an ordered society. This doesn't necessarily mean: happy people. What he wanted were people, that functioned as desired by their position in the society. >> In my eyes this is way to backward oriented. >> > > In my eyes, you're lying. Again. Well, I don't want to talk about Freud too much. But if you like, here is a nice video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQaqXK7z9LM >> Instead it is useful to enhance the patients life in general, what would >> have positive effects on the mind, too. >> >> So a patient should try to eliminate harmful habits, to become less >> self-destructive. Also bad influences from the environment should be >> reduced. >> > > While this would be of benefit, to a degree, no rational person > would believe it alone could cure a mental illness. Mental health is like an 'overall sum' of the life a person lives. You cannot enhance mental health without enhancing circumstances of life. Cure itself is out of the realm, what we as human beings can achieve. Usually people heal themselves and we can only help the body to do so. This would require to reduce unhealthy habits and stress from the environment. Then the mind could eventually develop better and healthier functions. But we could not cure the mind, while remaining the same habits, that caused the illness. TH
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-11 04:13 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ul9k1bd67o13a4ro6ejrscnjbhmkrdkppf@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #269501 |
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 00:22:56 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
wrote:
>Am 06.10.2015 11:44, schrieb K Wills (Shill #3):
>..
>>>>> What would you think, why Freud tries to analyse the mind (instead of
>>>>> curing the personality)?
>>>>
>>>> One can't be treated, or cured, until the ailment is known.
>>>
>>> Psychoanalysis is not based on the analysis of the staus quo, but tries
>>> to find early trauma and analyse that.
>>
>> For some, early trauma will be the cause. But not for all. And
>> Freudian psychology doesn't make the claim you assign.
>>
>>> 'Ailment' refers to the current situation. In case of mental problems we
>>> would expect, the doctor examines the patient and ask him about his
>>> problems.
>>>
>>> But Freud regarded the analysis as a cure.
>>
>> No, he did not.
>
>
>Freud used the name 'Psychoanalyse' for his method to treat neurotic people.
>
But, as you undoubtedly know, it was, and is, never considered it
a cure.
>So he apparently had the idea, this method would help neurotic people to
>recover from mental illness.
It did and does help. But it's not a cure.
>
>But it's worth mentioning WHAT he regarded as a disease: 'neurosis' was
>not based on whether or not people suffer, but whether or not people
>would fit into the society.
>
What is that supposed to mean?
>So Freud belongs to the caste of 'social engineers', who dream about an
>ordered society.
>
>This doesn't necessarily mean: happy people. What he wanted were
>people, that functioned as desired by their position in the society.
>
Um, yes.
>
>>> In my eyes this is way to backward oriented.
>>
>> In my eyes, you're lying. Again.
>
>
>Well, I don't want to talk about Freud too much.
Yet YOU were the one to bring him up.
>But if you like, here
>is a nice video:
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQaqXK7z9LM
>
Do you realize this video destroys most of your initial argument?
>>> Instead it is useful to enhance the patients life in general, what would
>>> have positive effects on the mind, too.
>>>
>>> So a patient should try to eliminate harmful habits, to become less
>>> self-destructive. Also bad influences from the environment should be
>>> reduced.
>>
>> While this would be of benefit, to a degree, no rational person
>> would believe it alone could cure a mental illness.
>
>Mental health is like an 'overall sum' of the life a person lives. You
>cannot enhance mental health without enhancing circumstances of life.
>
>
>Cure itself is out of the realm, what we as human beings can achieve.
This is simply not true. While no one considers psychoanalysis as
a means of curing someone, some people are cured of mental illness.
>Usually people heal themselves and we can only help the body to do so.
>
The body and mind are not the same thing.
>This would require to reduce unhealthy habits and stress from the
>environment. Then the mind could eventually develop better and healthier
>functions.
>
It certainly would not hurt, but your apparent claim that this
alone would cure someone of mental illness is, at best, a fantasy.
>But we could not cure the mind, while remaining the same habits, that
>caused the illness.
>
Do you honestly believe something like excessive alcohol
consumption, smoking, a diet high in saturate fats, etc. leads to
mental illness? If so, I can assure you that you are wrong.
Maybe you hold the belief that if someone with mental illness
were to hire a cleaning service to clean their home, ensuring there is
no mess, they'll suddenly become well. If so, let me tell you, they
won't.
With some forms of mental illness, a chemical imbalance is the
cause. While there is no way to cure this, drug therapy can be used to
treat the underlying cause. A great example of this is Bi-Polar
disorder.
--
Shill #3. Current Psychotronic World Dominator and FEMA camp
counselor
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-12 06:11 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <d80q7nFm52gU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #269528 |
Am 11.10.2015 11:13, schrieb K Wills (Shill #3): .. >> Mental health is like an 'overall sum' of the life a person lives. You >> cannot enhance mental health without enhancing circumstances of life. >> >> >> Cure itself is out of the realm, what we as human beings can achieve. > > This is simply not true. While no one considers psychoanalysis as > a means of curing someone, some people are cured of mental illness. I personally think, the human body heals itself. We only help this process by removing hindering factors or by supplying means. For a wound to heal we need to keep bacterias away and keep to wound clean. But we cannot provide this process, that make the wound close by new tissue, that builds within. The body is also equipped with a defence system against viruses and other infectious material. We can simulate this system to some degree, but actually the 'real thing' operates much better. >> Usually people heal themselves and we can only help the body to do so. >> > > The body and mind are not the same thing. Well, that is a question of definition of the term 'body'. If you define 'body' as 'everything from neck down', you are right. >> This would require to reduce unhealthy habits and stress from the >> environment. Then the mind could eventually develop better and healthier >> functions. >> > > It certainly would not hurt, but your apparent claim that this > alone would cure someone of mental illness is, at best, a fantasy. Actually I don't pretend, this would cure mental illness, since I have not much experience in this subject, (since I'm not a doctor). And somehow I don't want to discuss the problem how to cure such diseases, since that would be inappropriate for this forum. I had something to say about Freud as a person and about his role at the Tavistock Institute, but don't pretend to be able to cure such diseases. .. TH
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-12 04:14 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <tfum1bpe7mj130leuu728bl6iqear5l0fd@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #269568 |
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 06:11:28 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
wrote:
>Am 11.10.2015 11:13, schrieb K Wills (Shill #3):
>..
>>> Mental health is like an 'overall sum' of the life a person lives. You
>>> cannot enhance mental health without enhancing circumstances of life.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cure itself is out of the realm, what we as human beings can achieve.
>>
>> This is simply not true. While no one considers psychoanalysis as
>> a means of curing someone, some people are cured of mental illness.
>
>
>I personally think, the human body heals itself. We only help this
>process by removing hindering factors or by supplying means.
>
>For a wound to heal we need to keep bacterias away and keep to wound
>clean. But we cannot provide this process, that make the wound close by
>new tissue, that builds within.
>
>The body is also equipped with a defence system against viruses and
>other infectious material. We can simulate this system to some degree,
>but actually the 'real thing' operates much better.
>
The body and mind are two different things.
As for the body, we can take antibiotics. We can wash the wounded
area. This will promote healing, but just as with the mind and
psychoanalysis, it won't be the cure.
Thank you for helping me point out where your claim was and is
wrong.
[Snip the remainder since you've helped me prove your claim wrong.]
--
Shill #3. Current Psychotronic World Dominator and FEMA camp
counselor
[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]
Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]
Back to top | Article view | alt.conspiracy
csiph-web