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Crash with 136.0.2

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  Crash with 136.0.2 Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-22 08:53 +0000
    Re: Crash with 136.0.2 Christian Riechers <chriechers@netscape.net.invalid> - 2025-03-22 11:24 +0100
    Re: Crash with 136.0.2 Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-22 08:10 -0400
    Re: Crash with 136.0.2 VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-03-22 11:17 -0500
      Re: Crash with 136.0.2 Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-22 21:55 +0000
        Re: Crash with 136.0.2 VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-03-22 21:54 -0500
          Re: Crash with 136.0.2 Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-23 13:31 +0000

#12833 — Crash with 136.0.2

Fx 136.0.2 (Linux Mint 22.1) just crashed and would not restart until I 
rebooted

I was looking at some Wikipedia pages when it crashed, so nothing 
unusual. The crash report interface suddenly appeared stating that Fx 
had encountered a problem and asked if I would like to send a crash 
report (it's not enabled automatically in the Settings) and did I want 
to close or restart Fx. I clicked on yes to restart and send the report, 
and another crash report interface appeared! A third appeared on 
clicking "yes" in that one. Fx itself did not restart.

I closed all the boxes and Fx itself. On trying to reopen Fx only a 
crash report box appeared - not Fx itself. Fx would not open on a second 
attempt, so I rebooted. It opened ok after reboot without crash report 
box appearing.

I thought that 136.0.2 was released to solve problems with 136.0.1!

-- 
Jeff

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#12835

On 3/22/25 9:53 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
> Fx 136.0.2 (Linux Mint 22.1) just crashed and would not restart until I 
> rebooted
> 
> I was looking at some Wikipedia pages when it crashed, so nothing 
> unusual. The crash report interface suddenly appeared stating that Fx 
> had encountered a problem and asked if I would like to send a crash 
> report (it's not enabled automatically in the Settings) and did I want 
> to close or restart Fx. I clicked on yes to restart and send the report, 
> and another crash report interface appeared!
I always select 'Close', and never had a problem getting FF back up and 
running.

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#12836

On 3/22/2025 4:53 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
> Fx 136.0.2 (Linux Mint 22.1) just crashed and would not restart until I 
> rebooted
> 
> I was looking at some Wikipedia pages when it crashed, so nothing 
> unusual. The crash report interface suddenly appeared stating that Fx 
> had encountered a problem and asked if I would like to send a crash 
> report (it's not enabled automatically in the Settings) and did I want 
> to close or restart Fx. I clicked on yes to restart and send the report, 
> and another crash report interface appeared! A third appeared on 
> clicking "yes" in that one. Fx itself did not restart.
> 
> I closed all the boxes and Fx itself. On trying to reopen Fx only a 
> crash report box appeared - not Fx itself. Fx would not open on a second 
> attempt, so I rebooted. It opened ok after reboot without crash report 
> box appearing.
> 
> I thought that 136.0.2 was released to solve problems with 136.0.1!
> 

    I wonder how similar FF is in Linux vs Windows. I don't
remember it actually crashing in many years. Maybe decades.
There was one problem many years ago where FF windows
would multiply out of control. That's the last problem I recall.
Though I'm also using NoScript and a HOSTS file, so probably
not putting much pressure on FF.

    The one big problem I see
is that FF simply can't handle complex interactive pages of a
certain type. For example, my doctor and dentist subcontract
out to companies where the page is fine in Chromium but halfway
there in FF, with lots of curly braces. My webhost control panel
is similar. I now have to keep Chromium on hand for those sites,
and it seems to be getting worse.

   With FF market share down to low single digits, I'm guessing
that commercial webmasters are not testing in FF at all, and
that the scripting engines between the browsers are diverging.

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#12842

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Fx 136.0.2 (Linux Mint 22.1) just crashed and would not restart until I 
> rebooted

Is session restore enabled in Firefox?  It is by default.  However, if
the web page that gets restored is what crashes the web browser then
trying to restore that session on a later load of the web browser may
still crash it.  In about:config, search on:

browser.sessionstore.max_resumed_crashes
Change from 1 to 0.  

browser.sessionstore.resume_from_crash
Change from True to False.

Also, did you define about:blank for the home page?  Anything else could
cause the above repeat failure.

Obviously you cannot load Firefox to get into about:config if Firefox
keeps crashing on startup.  With Firefox NOT loaded, press and hold the
Shift key while starting Firefox.  Release the Shift key when Firefox
opens.  Firefox then starts in its safe mode which eliminates problems
caused by extensions you installed into Firefox, and won't restore a
prior session.  Alternatively, you can add the --safe-mode command-line
argument to firefox.exe (you should create regular and safe mode
shortcuts for Firefox).

Safe mode won't undo all the tweaks you do in the config screens, or in
about:config.  To eliminate those, and start with a fresh profile absent
of any add-ons and tweaks, use Refresh, or run the profile manager using
firefox.exe -ProfileManager or just -P.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/refresh-firefox-reset-add-ons-and-settings
https://docs.telemetry.mozilla.org/concepts/profile/profile_creation

> I was looking at some Wikipedia pages when it crashed, so nothing 
> unusual. 

Well, Javascript can crash a web browser.  Wikipedia.com has Javascript,
like for the right-side panel for Appearance, but it mostly works to
read the articles.  Also, could be an add-on caused the crash.  The
change to e10s aka Electrolysis to add multi-process support in version
48 for both tabs and extensions was supposed to help alleviate add-on
crashes from taking out the main Firefox process.  It helps, but is not
a cure-all.

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#12852

On 22/03/2025 16:17, VanguardLH wrote:
> Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Fx 136.0.2 (Linux Mint 22.1) just crashed and would not restart until I
>> rebooted
> 
> Is session restore enabled in Firefox?  It is by default.  However, if
> the web page that gets restored is what crashes the web browser then
> trying to restore that session on a later load of the web browser may
> still crash it.  In about:config, search on:
> 
> browser.sessionstore.max_resumed_crashes
> Change from 1 to 0.
> 
> browser.sessionstore.resume_from_crash
> Change from True to False.

It's the first time Fx has crashed in that manner. Crashes are very rare 
anyway, so I'll keep those pref changes in reserve in case it starts 
happening more frequently.

> Also, did you define about:blank for the home page?  Anything else could
> cause the above repeat failure.

The home page is blank.

> Obviously you cannot load Firefox to get into about:config if Firefox
> keeps crashing on startup.  With Firefox NOT loaded, press and hold the
> Shift key while starting Firefox.  Release the Shift key when Firefox
> opens.  Firefox then starts in its safe mode which eliminates problems
> caused by extensions you installed into Firefox, and won't restore a
> prior session.  Alternatively, you can add the --safe-mode command-line
> argument to firefox.exe (you should create regular and safe mode
> shortcuts for Firefox).

Shift - Open doesn't start Fx in safe mode in Linux Mint. It can be 
opened in safe mode from a terminal.

> Safe mode won't undo all the tweaks you do in the config screens, or in
> about:config.  To eliminate those, and start with a fresh profile absent
> of any add-ons and tweaks, use Refresh, or run the profile manager using
> firefox.exe -ProfileManager or just -P.
> 
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/refresh-firefox-reset-add-ons-and-settings
> https://docs.telemetry.mozilla.org/concepts/profile/profile_creation
> 
>> I was looking at some Wikipedia pages when it crashed, so nothing
>> unusual.
> 
> Well, Javascript can crash a web browser.  Wikipedia.com has Javascript,
> like for the right-side panel for Appearance, but it mostly works to
> read the articles.  Also, could be an add-on caused the crash.  The
> change to e10s aka Electrolysis to add multi-process support in version
> 48 for both tabs and extensions was supposed to help alleviate add-on
> crashes from taking out the main Firefox process.  It helps, but is not
> a cure-all.

As I mentioned above, Fx has been very stable and even if it has crashed 
before it has been easy to restart. It's just because it wouldn't 
restart this time that I posted here.

-- 
Jeff

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#12855

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> As I mentioned above, Fx has been very stable and even if it has crashed 
> before it has been easy to restart. It's just because it wouldn't 
> restart this time that I posted here.

I noted back in "Updated Firefoxes for March 4th, 2025!" (Message-ID:
<19xjxrw7dcxwu.dlg@v.nguard.lh>) that a restart of Firefox didn't work
to apply the update to 136.  The Restart button didn't work, and I tried
3 times.  I was still at 135.  I had to exit Firefox and reload it to
get it to move to 136.  That was the first time I hit a failure of an
update to apply when clicking on Restart.

You noted here that Firefox 136 had a problem restarting after it
crashed.  Hmm, seems something might be related between the two events.
You can't check now after an OS restart, but if it happens again I would
check Task Manager to see if all firefox.exe instances disappeared when
you thought you exited Firefox.  

There is a feature that lets service workers continue running in the
background when you exit Firefox.  If you go to about:serviceworkers,
you can see if any were started.  You can also go into Developer Mode
(Ctrl+Shift+I), and look under the Application tab to see a list of
registered service workers.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Service_Worker_API

I have the feature disabled, so that page says "Service Workers are not
enabled".  When I exit Firefox, I want it *all* immediately unloaded!
There are also privacy issues with service workers since they can
connect and stay connected after exiting Firefox.  You think your web
session is finished when you exited Firefox, but service workers
continue running in the background which means they can also continue
sending data, like telemetry, plus they can make network connections
that you don't know about since you didn't choose to visit there.

https://www.chromium.org/Home/chromium-security/security-faq/service-worker-security-faq/

Service workers are not unique to Firefox.  Most web browsers support
this feature.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Service_Worker_API/Using_Service_Workers

https://hacks.mozilla.org/2014/06/serviceworkers-and-firefox/
(c.2014)
  "At their simplest, Service Workers are scripts that act as   
  client-side proxies for web pages. JavaScript code can intercept 
  network requests, deliver manufactured responses and perform   
  granular caching based on the unique needs of the application, a 
  feature that the web platform has lacked before now. This powerful 
  capability being made available to web developers enables, among other 
  things, the creation of fully-functioning offline experiences."

Mozilla again empowering web sites at the expense of security and
privacy of their product users, but they probably just followed the pack
in adding the feature.  Everyone else does it, so they did it, too.

To disable service workers in Firefox, change from True (default) to
False the following setting in the about:config editor:

dom.serviceWorkers.enabled

Android users are caught unaware that exiting an app (its window
disappears) does *not* unload the app until the OS decides it needs that
memory for a newly loaded app, or until the user stops the app (via
settings -> Apps -> <app> -> Stop, or using a task killer app).  It's
how Android pretends it is faster at loading apps - by not unloading
them figuring you're likely to soon reload the app.  Similarly, Firefox
users are also often caught unaware that exiting its main window does
not necessarily kill all of its processes.  Service workers can continue
running, and be connecting out to somewhere you may not know about.

I'm sure service workers are a feature whether Firefox, or whatever web
browser, is running under Windows or Linux.  It is a decade-old feature.
Take a look in about:config to check the setting (bolded if NOT the
default), and also check about:serviceworkers to see if any got
registered.  I think that is also where you deregister the service
workers (so unregister before disabling).

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#12856

On 23/03/2025 02:54, VanguardLH wrote:
> Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> As I mentioned above, Fx has been very stable and even if it has crashed
>> before it has been easy to restart. It's just because it wouldn't
>> restart this time that I posted here.
> 
> I noted back in "Updated Firefoxes for March 4th, 2025!" (Message-ID:
> <19xjxrw7dcxwu.dlg@v.nguard.lh>) that a restart of Firefox didn't work
> to apply the update to 136.  The Restart button didn't work, and I tried
> 3 times.  I was still at 135.  I had to exit Firefox and reload it to
> get it to move to 136.  That was the first time I hit a failure of an
> update to apply when clicking on Restart.
> 
> You noted here that Firefox 136 had a problem restarting after it
> crashed.  Hmm, seems something might be related between the two events.
> You can't check now after an OS restart, but if it happens again I would
> check Task Manager to see if all firefox.exe instances disappeared when
> you thought you exited Firefox.

Linux Mint has a similar program (System Monitor) to "Task Manager". I 
can check if there's anything Fx still running.

> There is a feature that lets service workers continue running in the
> background when you exit Firefox.  If you go to about:serviceworkers,
> you can see if any were started.  You can also go into Developer Mode
> (Ctrl+Shift+I), and look under the Application tab to see a list of
> registered service workers.
> 
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Service_Worker_API
> 
> I have the feature disabled, so that page says "Service Workers are not
> enabled".  

My about:serviceworkers states "No Service Workers registered."

When I exit Firefox, I want it *all* immediately unloaded!
> There are also privacy issues with service workers since they can
> connect and stay connected after exiting Firefox.  You think your web
> session is finished when you exited Firefox, but service workers
> continue running in the background which means they can also continue
> sending data, like telemetry, plus they can make network connections
> that you don't know about since you didn't choose to visit there.

I have "Delete cookies and site data when Firefox is closed".

> https://www.chromium.org/Home/chromium-security/security-faq/service-worker-security-faq/
> 
> Service workers are not unique to Firefox.  Most web browsers support
> this feature.
> 
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Service_Worker_API/Using_Service_Workers
> 
> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2014/06/serviceworkers-and-firefox/
> (c.2014)
>    "At their simplest, Service Workers are scripts that act as
>    client-side proxies for web pages. JavaScript code can intercept
>    network requests, deliver manufactured responses and perform
>    granular caching based on the unique needs of the application, a
>    feature that the web platform has lacked before now. This powerful
>    capability being made available to web developers enables, among other
>    things, the creation of fully-functioning offline experiences."
> 
> Mozilla again empowering web sites at the expense of security and
> privacy of their product users, but they probably just followed the pack
> in adding the feature.  Everyone else does it, so they did it, too.
> 
> To disable service workers in Firefox, change from True (default) to
> False the following setting in the about:config editor:
> 
> dom.serviceWorkers.enabled

Mine was "true". I've just toggled it to "false".

> Android users are caught unaware that exiting an app (its window
> disappears) does *not* unload the app until the OS decides it needs that
> memory for a newly loaded app, or until the user stops the app (via
> settings -> Apps -> <app> -> Stop, or using a task killer app).  It's
> how Android pretends it is faster at loading apps - by not unloading
> them figuring you're likely to soon reload the app.  Similarly, Firefox
> users are also often caught unaware that exiting its main window does
> not necessarily kill all of its processes.  Service workers can continue
> running, and be connecting out to somewhere you may not know about.

Yes, it's a "feature" of Android I can do without! I'm sure that Google 
makes use of it more than a little...

-- 
Jeff

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