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Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"??

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  Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Rink <rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> - 2025-08-19 20:50 +0200
    Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-19 23:35 +0200
      Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-19 22:14 +0000
        Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-20 02:25 +0200
          Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-20 04:07 +0000
            Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-20 13:39 +0200
              Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-08-20 21:57 +1000
                Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-20 14:26 +0200
                  Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-08-20 23:00 +1000
                    Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-20 15:45 +0000
                      Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-08-21 20:27 +1000
                        Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-22 08:22 +0000
                          Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Stan Brown <someone@example.com> - 2025-08-23 08:28 -0700
                            Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-23 16:49 +0000
                              Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-23 21:17 +0100
                                Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-23 23:37 +0000
                                  Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-24 03:38 +0100
                                    Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-24 03:05 +0000
                                    Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 15:49 +0200
                                      Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-24 15:05 +0000
                                        Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-24 17:56 +0100
                                          Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-24 17:58 +0000
                                        Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 20:31 +0200
                                          Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-24 18:44 +0000
                                            Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 23:53 +0200
                                              Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-25 03:28 +0000
                                                Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-25 14:00 +0200
                                                  Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-25 16:51 +0000
                                            Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> - 2025-08-25 09:41 +0100
                                              Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-25 16:52 +0000
                                      Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-24 17:50 +0100
                                        Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-24 17:57 +0000
                                          Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-25 04:28 +0100
                                            Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-25 14:03 +0200
                                              YouTube subscribes (was: Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"??) "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-25 16:16 +0100
                                                Re: YouTube subscribes "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-25 20:24 +0200
                                                  Re: YouTube subscribes "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-25 21:47 +0100
                                                    Re: YouTube subscribes Nobody <jock@soccer.com> - 2025-08-25 14:11 -0700
                                                      Re: YouTube subscribes cracker@montaz.org - 2025-08-25 18:20 -0500
                                                    Re: YouTube subscribes "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-26 14:54 +0200
                                                  Re: YouTube subscribes Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-08-26 11:33 +0100
                                                    Re: YouTube subscribes "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-26 15:09 +0200
                                                      Re: YouTube subscribes Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-08-26 17:02 +0100
                                                      Re: YouTube subscribes "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-26 19:56 +0100
                                      Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> - 2025-08-25 09:28 +0100
                            Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> - 2025-08-24 09:17 +0100
                              Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-24 15:15 +0000
                                Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-24 18:04 +0100
                                  Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-24 18:19 +0000
                                    Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-08-25 05:10 +0100
    Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Schugo <schugo@schugo.de> - 2025-08-20 00:48 +0200
      Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"?? Schugo <schugo@schugo.de> - 2025-08-21 19:01 +0200

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#14573 — Re: YouTube : "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"??

Op 19-8-2025 om 16:35 schreef Rink:
> I do not know where to ask this question on usenet, so I ask it here. 
> Sorry fot that.
> 
> 
> I get this text at all video's from YouTube since a few minutes:
> 
> "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"
> "This helps protect our community. Learn more"
> with a "Sign in" button.
> 
> "Learn more" is a link to:
> <https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/3037019#zippy=%2Ccheck-that-youre-signed-into-youtube%2Ccheck-that-youre-signed-in-to-youtube> 
> 
> 
> on which I read:
> 
> "Make sure you’re signed in to YouTube.
> In order to protect the YouTube community, we may prevent signed-out 
> users from accessing YouTube videos when they’re attempting to download 
> material for offline use."
> 
> 
> I do not want a YouTube account.
> 
> So, is this the end for YouTube when you do not have an account?
> 
> If yes, which are the alternatives?
> 
> Rink



Thanks for your answers.

What happened, I think we will not discover...
I'm allowed to look YouTube video's again without "Sign in".

The only thing I did was: I deleted the cookies from google and youtube.
I discovered that there is one cookie from YouTube I cannot delete.


To answer some of your questions and suggestions:

I do not have a google account.
I'm in The Netherlands.
I do not know what EU plans are for "protecting the childs".
But I do not want to give a fingerprint or an eye-scan.
And certainly not my ID card or a copy of it. Stupid idea!
Everything what's on internet will be hacked, so you just
can wait for the hacker who sells millions of hacked ID-cards....

I have Windows Firewall (on Windows7)
but it looks like it's only about incoming traffic.
Maybe I should try Avira Firewall?
Or zonealarm (an old one for Windows7)?

My Firefox does not reopen all tabs,
it only starts with one tab: "about.blank".
If I close firefox all tabs are gone, I can only find the links in the 
history.

I have duckduckgo as default searcher.

Using adblock Plus I only see (shortend) ads before a video starts, no 
ads during a video.

I don't use a VPN.

NoScript blocks all scripts except the ones I allow.
A lot of sites wants javascript and I decide per site if I allow it.

You cannot internet if you do not want google scripts, they are on 
almost all sites....
But I have a Facebook container which also blocks instagram, whatsapp 
and other meta things.

I think I do not have software which do bad things,
but I do not know how to check this.

Rink

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#14576

On 2025-08-19 20:50, Rink wrote:
> Op 19-8-2025 om 16:35 schreef Rink:
>> I do not know where to ask this question on usenet, so I ask it here. 
>> Sorry fot that.
>>
>>
>> I get this text at all video's from YouTube since a few minutes:
>>
>> "Sign in to confirm you're not a bot"
>> "This helps protect our community. Learn more"
>> with a "Sign in" button.
...> Thanks for your answers.
> 
> What happened, I think we will not discover...
> I'm allowed to look YouTube video's again without "Sign in".
> 
> The only thing I did was: I deleted the cookies from google and youtube.
> I discovered that there is one cookie from YouTube I cannot delete.


Someone reported a similar problem maybe a month ago [...] Yes, at 
alt.comp.software.firefox, in June. "Re: Can't use Youtube any more"

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#14578

On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 23:35:12 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :


> Someone reported a similar problem maybe a month ago [...] Yes, at 
> alt.comp.software.firefox, in June. "Re: Can't use Youtube any more"

I'm extremely familiar with the problem that the OP described.
And I *never* log into a Google Account using any web browser.

At the time it started (months ago), we were told that Google had
too many bots so they implemented a selective method of requiring signin.

I never sign in but I can only get away with that using some browsers
and using some IP addresses and using some VPN obfuscators, etc.

SO, it's the classic YMMV situation.
But I get it a LOT so I agree with the OP's initial post.

It definitely happens in many situations (more often than not).
It's roughly about 80% or about 90% of the situations in my experience.

This happened when Google changed things due to bots a few months ago.
It was publicized in the war channel I frequent (see below).
Because that war channel started requiring you to prove you're an adult.

Here's my 10-step way to reproduce the problem, or to work around it:
1. Choose an IP address (some of us have VPNs & some have SOCKS proxies)
2. Choose a web browser (some have proxies & vpn extensions)
3. Make sure you are NOT logged into Google by any means whatsoever
4. Make sure you have no cookies or saved data either of any type
5. Go to <https://www.youtube.com/>
6. You should see "Try searching to get started" and below that
  "Start watching videos to help us build a feed of videos you'll love."
7. If you see anything other than an almost blank page, repeat #3 & #4
8. Search for "Denys Davydov" (which is adult war material about Ukraine)
   <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=denys+davydov>
9. Click on the latest war report (there's a new report every day)
10. Depending on #1 and #2 and #3 above, I get one of two results:
    a. Sign in to confirm you're not a bot
       This helps protect our community. Learn more
       Sign in
    b. Or, it just plays.

My results?
A. Most browsers & most IP addresses will NOT play the video.
B. Some browsers & some IP addresses DO play the video.

This is the classic YMMV.
Your results depend on what Google thinks is a potential bot.

This has been the case for many months now.
So it's not new.

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#14585

On 2025-08-20 00:14, Marion wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 23:35:12 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :
> 
> 
>> Someone reported a similar problem maybe a month ago [...] Yes, at
>> alt.comp.software.firefox, in June. "Re: Can't use Youtube any more"
> 
> I'm extremely familiar with the problem that the OP described.
> And I *never* log into a Google Account using any web browser.
> 
> At the time it started (months ago), we were told that Google had
> too many bots so they implemented a selective method of requiring signin.
> 
> I never sign in but I can only get away with that using some browsers
> and using some IP addresses and using some VPN obfuscators, etc.
> 
> SO, it's the classic YMMV situation.
> But I get it a LOT so I agree with the OP's initial post.
> 
> It definitely happens in many situations (more often than not).
> It's roughly about 80% or about 90% of the situations in my experience.

Well, I have never logged into Google (or youtube) in my default 
browser, and I have never been asked by youtube to login. I don't try to 
hide, either.

Of course, there are phones in the house where I'm logged in, and there 
is another browser in which I'm logged in. They might find out I am the 
same person, but that would show.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#14587

On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 02:25:13 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :


>> It definitely happens in many situations (more often than not).
>> It's roughly about 80% or about 90% of the situations in my experience.
> 
> Well, I have never logged into Google (or youtube) in my default 
> browser, and I have never been asked by youtube to login. I don't try to 
> hide, either.
> 
> Of course, there are phones in the house where I'm logged in, and there 
> is another browser in which I'm logged in. They might find out I am the 
> same person, but that would show.

Thanks for bringing a different datapoint up in this youtube bot issue.

A great reason to start the way I described is everyone starts the same.
There's no connection whatsoever to Google starting the way I did.

Still, Google is like Amazon Vine, where their algorithms are unknowable.
Still, I can generally control the common bot failures to get a success.

Below are some screenshots I made today showing the whole process.
  a. First, there's nothing at the youtube page
  b. Then I fail because youtube thinks I'm a bot
  c. Then I flip a few switches & youtube thinks I'm not a bot

Each time, I tweak the conditions which I've learned over time how to do.
 <https://i.postimg.cc/rpyFGJx9/Clipboard-08-19-2025-01.jpg> get started
 <https://i.postimg.cc/8cv1kngT/Clipboard-08-19-2025-02.jpg> enter search 
 <https://i.postimg.cc/ry4crb7k/Clipboard-08-19-2025-03.jpg> enter channel
 <https://i.postimg.cc/3wWQJb2z/Clipboard-08-19-2025-04.jpg> you're a bot
 <https://i.postimg.cc/YqcrDkQ0/Clipboard-08-19-2025-05.jpg> modify bits
 <https://i.postimg.cc/9fxXL7BH/Clipboard-08-19-2025-06.jpg> reject all
 <https://i.postimg.cc/QC2R6XP3/Clipboard-08-19-2025-07.jpg> you're no bot

Notice in the same session, I'm a bot, and I'm not a bot, all depending
on what I do with the browser settings and which Google seems to look at.

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#14590

On 2025-08-20 06:07, Marion wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 02:25:13 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :
> 
> 
>>> It definitely happens in many situations (more often than not).
>>> It's roughly about 80% or about 90% of the situations in my experience.
>>
>> Well, I have never logged into Google (or youtube) in my default
>> browser, and I have never been asked by youtube to login. I don't try to
>> hide, either.
>>
>> Of course, there are phones in the house where I'm logged in, and there
>> is another browser in which I'm logged in. They might find out I am the
>> same person, but that would show.
> 
> Thanks for bringing a different datapoint up in this youtube bot issue.
> 
> A great reason to start the way I described is everyone starts the same.
> There's no connection whatsoever to Google starting the way I did.

I just tried with starting a new Private Window in Firefox. I went to 
youtube, was asked to accept or reject cookies. I said accept all - 
perfectly safe, they will be deleted when the window is closed.

Then I get the empty search box on youtube you show on your photo. I 
type to search for "anders puck nielsen", get the page, click on a 
video, works instantly.

I open another private window, accept all cookies, and try your same 
search. Click on a video, works instantly.

I'm using 140.1.0esr (64-bit) on Linux.


This behaviour of youtube might be related to the IP range.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#14591

On 20/08/2025 9:39 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-08-20 06:07, Marion wrote:
>> On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 02:25:13 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :
>>
>>
>>>> It definitely happens in many situations (more often than not).
>>>> It's roughly about 80% or about 90% of the situations in my experience.
>>>
>>> Well, I have never logged into Google (or youtube) in my default
>>> browser, and I have never been asked by youtube to login. I don't try to
>>> hide, either.
>>>
>>> Of course, there are phones in the house where I'm logged in, and there
>>> is another browser in which I'm logged in. They might find out I am the
>>> same person, but that would show.
>>
>> Thanks for bringing a different datapoint up in this youtube bot issue.
>>
>> A great reason to start the way I described is everyone starts the same.
>> There's no connection whatsoever to Google starting the way I did.
> 
> I just tried with starting a new Private Window in Firefox. I went to 
> youtube, was asked to accept or reject cookies. I said accept all - 
> perfectly safe, they will be deleted when the window is closed.

When you re-open youtube in a Private Window .... were you asked to 
Accept/Reject again??

Or were your settings in fact Saved??
> 
> Then I get the empty search box on youtube you show on your photo. I 
> type to search for "anders puck nielsen", get the page, click on a 
> video, works instantly.
> 
> I open another private window, accept all cookies, and try your same 
> search. Click on a video, works instantly.
> 
> I'm using 140.1.0esr (64-bit) on Linux.
> 
> This behaviour of youtube might be related to the IP range.
> 
-- 
Daniel70

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#14592

On 2025-08-20 13:57, Daniel70 wrote:
> On 20/08/2025 9:39 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2025-08-20 06:07, Marion wrote:
>>> On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 02:25:13 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :
>>>
>>>
>>>>> It definitely happens in many situations (more often than not).
>>>>> It's roughly about 80% or about 90% of the situations in my 
>>>>> experience.
>>>>
>>>> Well, I have never logged into Google (or youtube) in my default
>>>> browser, and I have never been asked by youtube to login. I don't 
>>>> try to
>>>> hide, either.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, there are phones in the house where I'm logged in, and there
>>>> is another browser in which I'm logged in. They might find out I am the
>>>> same person, but that would show.
>>>
>>> Thanks for bringing a different datapoint up in this youtube bot issue.
>>>
>>> A great reason to start the way I described is everyone starts the same.
>>> There's no connection whatsoever to Google starting the way I did.
>>
>> I just tried with starting a new Private Window in Firefox. I went to 
>> youtube, was asked to accept or reject cookies. I said accept all - 
>> perfectly safe, they will be deleted when the window is closed.
> 
> When you re-open youtube in a Private Window .... were you asked to 
> Accept/Reject again??
> 
> Or were your settings in fact Saved??

If I open a new window, yes, I get asked again. A new tab, with the 
first one still open, no. If in that tab I ask to go to google, yes. I 
open then again youtube, no. They persist until the window is closed.

If I open a second window, it doesn't ask.

I open a third window, closing the youtube tabs in the two previous 
windows, no question.

So it seems to ask the first time you open a private window, all others 
share. When all private windows are closed, and I open another, it asks 
again.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#14593

On 20/08/2025 10:26 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-08-20 13:57, Daniel70 wrote:
>> On 20/08/2025 9:39 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2025-08-20 06:07, Marion wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 02:25:13 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :
>>>> 
>>>>>> It definitely happens in many situations (more often than
>>>>>> not). It's roughly about 80% or about 90% of the situations
>>>>>> in my experience.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well, I have never logged into Google (or youtube) in my
>>>>> default browser, and I have never been asked by youtube to
>>>>> login. I don't try to hide, either.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Of course, there are phones in the house where I'm logged in,
>>>>> and there is another browser in which I'm logged in. They
>>>>> might find out I am the same person, but that would show.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for bringing a different datapoint up in this youtube
>>>> bot issue.
>>>> 
>>>> A great reason to start the way I described is everyone starts
>>>> the same. There's no connection whatsoever to Google starting
>>>> the way I did.
>>> 
>>> I just tried with starting a new Private Window in Firefox. I
>>> went to youtube, was asked to accept or reject cookies. I said
>>> accept all - perfectly safe, they will be deleted when the window
>>> is closed.
>> 
>> When you re-open youtube in a Private Window .... were you asked to
>> Accept/Reject again??
>> 
>> Or were your settings in fact Saved??
> 
> If I open a new window, yes, I get asked again. A new tab, with the 
> first one still open, no. If in that tab I ask to go to google, yes.
> I open then again youtube, no. They persist until the window is
> closed.
> 
> If I open a second window, it doesn't ask.
> 
> I open a third window, closing the youtube tabs in the two previous 
> windows, no question.
> 
> So it seems to ask the first time you open a private window, all
> others share. When all private windows are closed, and I open
> another, it asks again.
> 
Ah!! Right.
-- 
Daniel70

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#14597

On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 13:39:54 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :


> This behaviour of youtube might be related to the IP range.

I'm sure it is. 

As I said, this is the classic YMMV situation we all know & love.

Given I watch "adult" war material (e.g., RFU, Deny Davydov, etc.), 
which the Russian bots have attempted to destroy, and given I never in my
life have logged into YouTube (and yet, I see whatever I want), I run into
this problem in spades. 

All I'm saying for the team is the problem is very real, but it won't
affect everyone because it's up to Google's bots detection algorithm.

Google's & Amazon Vine's algorithms are hard to game because they're
unknowable, but they're easy to game because they're sophomoric.

Draconian. 
But sophomoric.

This is my opinion only - based on fighting the Amazon/Google algorithms.
-- 
I generally win, but I have to tweak a bunch of values to be invited to the
club (such as my trick that worked for two people to be invited to Vine).
 <https://amazon.com/vine/about>

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#14616

On 21/08/2025 1:45 am, Marion wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 13:39:54 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :
> 
>> This behaviour of youtube might be related to the IP range.
> 
> I'm sure it is.
> 
> As I said, this is the classic YMMV situation we all know & love.
> 
> Given I watch "adult" war material (e.g., RFU, Deny Davydov, etc.),
> which the Russian bots have attempted to destroy, and given I never in my
> life have logged into YouTube (and yet, I see whatever I want), I run into
> this problem in spades.
> 
> All I'm saying for the team is the problem is very real, but it won't
> affect everyone because it's up to Google's bots detection algorithm.
> 
> Google's & Amazon Vine's algorithms are hard to game because they're
> unknowable, but they're easy to game because they're sophomoric.
> 
> Draconian.
> But sophomoric.
> 
> This is my opinion only - based on fighting the Amazon/Google algorithms.
> 
They are, supposedly, money making entities ... so want to make money 
out of YOU!!
-- 
Daniel70

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#14636

On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 20:27:01 +1000, Daniel70 wrote :


>> Google's & Amazon Vine's algorithms are hard to game because they're
>> unknowable, but they're easy to game because they're sophomoric.
>> 
>> Draconian.
>> But sophomoric.
>> 
>> This is my opinion only - based on fighting the Amazon/Google algorithms.
>> 
> They are, supposedly, money making entities ... so want to make money 
> out of YOU!!

Yup. Your data is valuable to them because they mine it daily.

Which is why the fundamental rule of privacy is to NEVER sign into anything
you don't have to, and never pay for anything.

Of course, some things you must log into, e.g., GMail, but if you're smart
about it, you can log into Google Servers with a modicum of privacy.

Just never use the Google GMail app to do it! 

While I've tried them all over the years, the best is FairEmail IMHO, but
K9/TB and others would work as well - just never use the GMail app ever!

Well, you can use it on iOS - but not on Android as it *creates* an account
on the phone on Android the instant you log into Google using that app.

Most of Google's privacy attacks (e.g., turning on precise location and
wi-fi scanning when you're nowhere near Wi-FI access points) are both
Draconian and sophomoric.

The childish way Google does things lies in the approach to defeat them.
However, the difficulty of defeat is the perniciousness of their approach.

As always, privacy takes intelligence.
People with no intelligence will never have privacy.

Just ask criminals who get caught because their red iPhone turned them in.
 <https://www.njherald.com/story/news/courts/2023/08/04/hayden-harris-case-life-sentences-fort-drum-soldier-killers/70523170007/>
:)

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#14655

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 08:22:00 -0000 (UTC), Marion wrote:
> Which is why the fundamental rule of privacy is to NEVER sign into anything
> you don't have to, and never pay for anything.

Like most categorical rules, this is nonsense. It's true that "you 
get what you pay for" is not an infallible guide, but there's a 
reason why that's a saying everyone knows.

-- 
After using my real address in 37 years of Usenet articles,
I am now reluctantly posting a fake address because of the
large number of sites scraping Usenet articles without
permission and putting them on their own pretend forum sites.

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#14659

On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 08:28:40 -0700, Stan Brown wrote :


>> Which is why the fundamental rule of privacy is to NEVER sign into anything
>> you don't have to, and never pay for anything.
> 
> Like most categorical rules, this is nonsense. It's true that "you 
> get what you pay for" is not an infallible guide, but there's a 
> reason why that's a saying everyone knows.

Hi Stan,

You and I both have very high technical degrees, so we're each well aware
that a single sentence summary never encompasses the entirety of reality.

That said, I think we're circling around a deeper point: truisms often
persist because they contain a kernel of truth, even if they oversimplify.
"You get what you pay for" is one of those. It's directionally useful, but
not universally reliable. Plenty of free tools offer tremendous value, and
plenty of paid services fall short. Similarly, "never sign into anything
you don't have to" is a good privacy instinct, but taken literally, it
becomes impractical in today's digital landscape.

Maybe the real takeaway is that categorical advice should be treated like
heuristic useful starting points, but always subject to context and
judgment.

As for the original problem set, I encountered it on the Ukraine war
YouTube channels when the Russian bots attacked en masse, and since then I
have come to an uneasy truce with the YouTube bot-identifying algorithm,
given I have never signed into a YouTube (aka Google) account in my life.

The success here is that I watch any YouTube video I want, without logging
into a Google account & without ever encountering Google-inserted ads.

I must be doing something right, right?

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#14663

On 2025/8/23 17:49:16, Marion wrote:

[]


> That said, I think we're circling around a deeper point: truisms often
> persist because they contain a kernel of truth, even if they oversimplify.
> "You get what you pay for" is one of those. It's directionally useful, but
> not universally reliable. Plenty of free tools offer tremendous value, and

Agreed - and not just tremendous value compared to the price paid, but
in absolute terms.

> plenty of paid services fall short. Similarly, "never sign into anything
> you don't have to" is a good privacy instinct, but taken literally, it
> becomes impractical in today's digital landscape.


Indeed.


[]

> The success here is that I watch any YouTube video I want, without logging
> into a Google account & without ever encountering Google-inserted ads.

Presumably you mean Google _targeted_ ad.s; presumably if you watch
YouTube videos, you get the ad.s, most commonly at the start of he video
but sometimes interrupting them - and they will be Google-_inserted_
(since YouTube _is_ Google), they just won't be (very) _targeted_.
[Unless you never watch the videos in the YouTube frame but always
download them with yt-dlp or similar first, which I'd find too tedious
for general video "browsing".]

> 
> I must be doing something right, right?


We all do sometimes (-:
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Apologies to [those] who may have been harmed by the scientific
inaccuracies in this post. - Roger Tilbury in UMRA, 2018-3-14

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#14664

On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 21:17:44 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote :


>> The success here is that I watch any YouTube video I want, without logging
>> into a Google account & without ever encountering Google-inserted ads.
> 
> Presumably you mean Google _targeted_ ad.s; presumably if you watch
> YouTube videos, you get the ad.s, most commonly at the start of he video
> but sometimes interrupting them - and they will be Google-_inserted_
> (since YouTube _is_ Google), they just won't be (very) _targeted_.
> [Unless you never watch the videos in the YouTube frame but always
> download them with yt-dlp or similar first, which I'd find too tedious
> for general video "browsing".

Most people don't understand what it's like to be unique on every visit.
I'm unique to Google on every visit. But that wasn't what I was describing.

Sure. YouTube (yes, that's Google) has absolutely no way to "target" me.
Hence I never see "targeted" ads in any medium, YouTube or otherwise.

Every session is unique.
But the fact YouTube/Google can't possibly "target" me isn't the point.

Sure, YouTube/Google has no idea who I am, so if they wanted to target me
with a targeted ad, it would be impossible for them to do so, but that's
not what I'm talking about (since I know that I'm unique on every visit).

I'm talking about ads that YouTube inserts into the video.
These are NOT ads that the youtube-creator ad libs into his videos.

There are two kinds of "ads" as far as I know in a YouTube video.
One I've never seen in my own views but I've seen others see them.

Those are the ones that YouTube slips in, which you can skip after a while.
I never see them. They don't exist. Not for me. That's what I do right.

The only ads I see are the ones where the channel creator says "and now I'm
gonna tell you all about NordVPN", which is part of the video itself.

Those I skip (I set my skip to be 30 seconds which is just about right).
But back to what I never see... I never see an ad inserted by YouTube.

If anyone else is seeing YouTube-inserted ads, they're not doing it right.

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#14668

On 2025/8/24 0:37:47, Marion wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 21:17:44 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote :
> 
> 
>>> The success here is that I watch any YouTube video I want, without logging
>>> into a Google account & without ever encountering Google-inserted ads.

Note - you said _inserted_ there, not _targeted_.

>>
>> Presumably you mean Google _targeted_ ad.s; presumably if you watch

[]

You spent a long time telling me why you're unique every time and thus
not _targeted_. That wouldn't stop you getting Google-_inserted_ ad.s -
they'd just be random rather than targeted.>
> I'm talking about ads that YouTube inserts into the video.
> These are NOT ads that the youtube-creator ad libs into his videos.
> 
> There are two kinds of "ads" as far as I know in a YouTube video.
> One I've never seen in my own views but I've seen others see them.
> 
> Those are the ones that YouTube slips in, which you can skip after a while.

Yes, usually after about nine seconds, I think; if they're shorter than
that, the Skip button doesn't appear.

> I never see them. They don't exist. Not for me. That's what I do right.

That's interesting. I would expect you to still get them, just that
they'd be random, since as you say they can't target you as you're
unique every time. The fact you don't is curious - unless, as I said,
you download every video you watch before you view it.>
> The only ads I see are the ones where the channel creator says "and now I'm
> gonna tell you all about NordVPN", which is part of the video itself.

Yes, nothing you can do about those of course.>
> Those I skip (I set my skip to be 30 seconds which is just about right).

Same here - or, I just do something else for those 30 seconds; I'm
rarely not doing several things at once.

> But back to what I never see... I never see an ad inserted by YouTube.
> 
> If anyone else is seeing YouTube-inserted ads, they're not doing it right.
So what do you think you're doing different? As I say, I wouldn't have
expected being unique every time to affect whether they're inserted or
not - onlu which ones _are_ inserted.
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

pu gnikcab yb naem uoy tahw siht sI

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#14670

On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 03:38:14 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote :


>> If anyone else is seeing YouTube-inserted ads, they're not doing it right.
> So what do you think you're doing different? As I say, I wouldn't have
> expected being unique every time to affect whether they're inserted or
> not - onlu which ones _are_ inserted.

No ads exist anywhere. Not on the YouTube page. Not in the video.

The only ads are those that the host of the video does when he says
something like "this video was sponsored by GroundNews", which I tap twice
in the forward direction (which is set to jump 30 seconds forward).

There are a hundred ways to set up YouTube so that it doesn't show ads.
I explained them already. No sense repeating it another hundred times.

If you ever see ads anywhere, then you're doing something wrong (IMHO).
There's a reason I set up a DIY web browser for privacy, for example.

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#14676

On 2025-08-24 04:38, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> On 2025/8/24 0:37:47, Marion wrote:
>> On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 21:17:44 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote :


>> But back to what I never see... I never see an ad inserted by YouTube.
>>
>> If anyone else is seeing YouTube-inserted ads, they're not doing it right.
> So what do you think you're doing different? As I say, I wouldn't have
> expected being unique every time to affect whether they're inserted or
> not - onlu which ones _are_ inserted.

I don't see adds in youtube. I am not logged in, and I allow all 
cookies. They have all the history.

I simply use uBlock Origin.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#14678

On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 15:49:35 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :


>>> But back to what I never see... I never see an ad inserted by YouTube.
>>>
>>> If anyone else is seeing YouTube-inserted ads, they're not doing it right.
>> So what do you think you're doing different? As I say, I wouldn't have
>> expected being unique every time to affect whether they're inserted or
>> not - onlu which ones _are_ inserted.
> 
> I don't see adds in youtube. I am not logged in, and I allow all 
> cookies. They have all the history.
> 
> I simply use uBlock Origin.

I agree with Carlos' experience where I never saw ads in YouTube when I
used the Epic Privacy Browser (which fell apart in the first week of July)
on Windows. 

The problem that caused YouTube to be an issue wasn't that lack of ads but
the fact that it required people to log in to prove that they're not a bot.

It takes more than just uBlock Origin to prove you're not a bot, which I've
been able to accomplish but where it's an uneasy truce with the algorithm.

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