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doublespeak (refresh)

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  doublespeak (refresh) David Chmelik <dchmelik@gmail.com> - 2026-08-02 04:14 +0000
    Re: doublespeak (refresh) dillinger <dillinger@not.invalid> - 2026-08-02 07:27 +0200
    Re: doublespeak (refresh) "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-08-02 08:15 +0200
      Re: doublespeak (refresh) Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> - 2026-08-02 09:27 +0100
        Re: doublespeak (refresh) "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-08-02 10:47 +0200
          Re: doublespeak (refresh) Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> - 2026-08-02 10:40 +0100
            Re: doublespeak (refresh) "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-08-02 12:46 +0200
              Re: doublespeak (refresh) Nobody <jock@soccer.com> - 2026-08-02 18:37 -0700
                Re: doublespeak (refresh) "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-08-03 08:22 +0200
        Re: doublespeak (refresh) Nobody <jock@soccer.com> - 2026-08-02 08:44 -0700
        Re: doublespeak (refresh) The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2026-08-02 09:19 -0700
      Re: doublespeak (refresh) R Daneel Olivaw <Danni@hyperspace.vogon.gov.invalid> - 2026-08-02 22:01 +0200
        Re: doublespeak (refresh) "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-08-03 08:25 +0200
    Re: doublespeak (refresh) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-02 07:35 +0000
      Re: doublespeak (refresh) dillinger <dillinger@not.invalid> - 2026-08-02 15:29 +0200
        Re: doublespeak (refresh) "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-08-02 16:39 +0200
          Re: doublespeak (refresh) dillinger <dillinger@not.invalid> - 2026-08-03 05:23 +0200
            Re: doublespeak (refresh) "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-08-03 08:25 +0200
              Re: doublespeak (refresh) dillinger <dillinger@not.invalid> - 2026-08-03 08:49 +0200
                Re: doublespeak (refresh) "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-08-03 09:55 +0200
                  Re: doublespeak (refresh) dillinger <dillinger@not.invalid> - 2026-08-03 10:14 +0200
                    Re: doublespeak (refresh) "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-08-03 11:05 +0200
                      Re: doublespeak (refresh) dillinger <dillinger@not.invalid> - 2026-08-03 12:11 +0200
                        Re: doublespeak (refresh) "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-08-03 15:19 +0200
    Re: doublespeak (refresh) Nobody <jock@soccer.com> - 2026-08-02 08:51 -0700

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#17974 — doublespeak (refresh)

'Refresh' is doublespeak: deletes what you had setup including some user 
data.  Imagine if someone offered to 'refresh' your house, and then 
demolished it and built you a mud hut without any more modern 
conveniences/rooms.  Please remove this dangerous scam offer and make it 
say what it's doing instead of pretending.

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#17975

Op 02-08-2026 om 06:14 schreef David Chmelik:
> 'Refresh' is doublespeak: deletes what you had setup including some user 
> data.  Imagine if someone offered to 'refresh' your house, and then 
> demolished it and built you a mud hut without any more modern 
> conveniences/rooms.  Please remove this dangerous scam offer and make it 
> say what it's doing instead of pretending.

It still is? I tried to warn for this a few years ago on the old Mozilla
server and it nearly got me kicked off of it by Chris.

In my experience the combination of Refresh Firefox and Firefox Sync has
always been very fragile, since day one.

If you use Refresh Firefox while connected to a Firefox Sync profile it
will start restoring seemingly random stuff from your profile after a
while, including stuff you thought you deleted years ago.

I've never used it again, make a good backup, much safer.

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#17976

David,

> 'Refresh' is doublespeak: deletes what you had setup including some
> user data.

Context ?

There are a number of refreshes that do exactly what the words stands for.

> Imagine if someone offered to 'refresh' your house, and then
> demolished it and built you a mud hut without any more modern
> conveniences/rooms.

Thats a bad analogy, hurting any point you're trying to make.

Even if it truly "deletes what you had setup" than what you would be left 
with would be a newbuild, ready-to-live-in house, including rugs, furniture, 
washing machine and all the other conveniences.

... like, in Firefox, having created a new profile.

But a question : did you *really* run something called "refresh" - which 
obviously would make changes - without checking what its supposed to do 
and/or making a backup first ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#17978

"R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> Wrote in message:

> David,
> 
>> 'Refresh' is doublespeak: deletes what you had setup including some
>> user data.
> 
> Context ?
> 
> There are a number of refreshes that do exactly what the words stands for.
> 
>> Imagine if someone offered to 'refresh' your house, and then
>> demolished it and built you a mud hut without any more modern
>> conveniences/rooms.
> 
> Thats a bad analogy, hurting any point you're trying to make.
> 
> Even if it truly "deletes what you had setup" than what you would be left 
> with would be a newbuild, ready-to-live-in house, including rugs, furniture, 
> washing machine and all the other conveniences.
> 
> ... like, in Firefox, having created a new profile.
> 
> But a question : did you *really* run something called "refresh" - which 
> obviously would make changes - without checking what its supposed to do 
> and/or making a backup first ?
> 
I've often come across Refresh, either when I resurrect Nightly
 having not used it for many months - usually to test my addons
 when the addons API changes - or start up a machine I haven't
 used for a long time. I get a message like "It looks like you
 haven't used Firefox for a long time. Would you like to refresh
 it?"

I'm pretty sure there's a 'Find out more' link, which perhaps goes
 here:
<https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/refresh-firefox-reset-add-ons-and-settings>

I generally say no and update via 'Help about'. 
-- 
Remove numerics from my email address.

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#17979

Dave,

> I've often come across Refresh,
....
> I'm pretty sure there's a 'Find out more' link, which perhaps goes
> here:

That is why I started with "context ?".

The OP just assumed we would know what "Refresh" he was talking about.  In
relation to Firefox I can't remember having ever come across it.

But if that is the "Refresh" the OP ment and he could just follow such an
"find out more" link than its even sillier that he didn't read-up on it.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#17980

"R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> Wrote in message:

> Dave,
> 
>> I've often come across Refresh,
> ....
>> I'm pretty sure there's a 'Find out more' link, which perhaps goes
>> here:
> 
> That is why I started with "context ?".
> 
> The OP just assumed we would know what "Refresh" he was talking about.  In
> relation to Firefox I can't remember having ever come across it.
> 
> But if that is the "Refresh" the OP ment and he could just follow such an
> "find out more" link than its even sillier that he didn't read-up on it.

I think I've seen it in a menu somewhere, though I don't have a PC
 at hand to look. And I've seen in mentioned Firefox 'what to do
 if ....' pages, among the 'if all else fails' suggestions.
 

Perhaps the OP will tell us more.
-- 
Remove numerics from my email address.

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#17981

Dave,

> And I've seen in mentioned Firefox 'what to do  if ....' pages, among the 
> 'if
> all else fails' suggestions.

I just found the link you posted (in your previous post) as the first result 
when I searched for "firefox refresh" using DDG.  IOW, information about it 
is not hard to find.

> Perhaps the OP will tell us more.

I doubt it.

His post was all about being angry because of the result he got when he did 
something he had no clue to what would would happen, and didn't bother to 
try to find out before doing it.

I do wonder what he thought that that "refresh" option would do for him 
though...

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#17988

On Sun, 2 Aug 2026 12:46:59 +0200, "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid>
wrote:

>Dave,
>
>> And I've seen in mentioned Firefox 'what to do  if ....' pages, among the 
>> 'if
>> all else fails' suggestions.
>
>I just found the link you posted (in your previous post) as the first result 
>when I searched for "firefox refresh" using DDG.  IOW, information about it 
>is not hard to find.
>
>> Perhaps the OP will tell us more.
>
>I doubt it.
>
>His post was all about being angry because of the result he got when he did 
>something he had no clue to what would would happen, and didn't bother to 
>try to find out before doing it.
>
>I do wonder what he thought that that "refresh" option would do for him 
>though...
>

NE1, er, anyone with the smarts to have navigated into the depths of
Usenet's arcane and ancient info-sharing even to pose such a question
would be aware of dangers there might be.

Phishy comes to mind.

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#17990

Nobody,

> NE1, er, anyone with the smarts to have navigated into the depths
> of Usenet's arcane and ancient info-sharing even to pose such a
> question would be aware of dangers there might be.

Maybe he was, and that is why he's so angry. <whistle>

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#17984

On Sun, 2 Aug 2026 09:27:34 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Dave Royal
<dave@dave123royal.com> wrote:


>I've often come across Refresh, either when I resurrect Nightly
> having not used it for many months - usually to test my addons
> when the addons API changes - or start up a machine I haven't
> used for a long time. I get a message like "It looks like you
> haven't used Firefox for a long time. Would you like to refresh
> it?"
>

IME, should a user download a new version of Ffox and install rather
than allow an update, a refresh nag appears the first time the new
install opens. 

>I'm pretty sure there's a 'Find out more' link, which perhaps goes
> here:
><https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/refresh-firefox-reset-add-ons-and-settings>
>
>I generally say no and update via 'Help about'. 

While I kill via the 'x' at the right side of the single-line banner,
the last thing I want is for settings within my profile to be mangled.

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#17986

On 8/2/26 01:27, Dave Royal wrote:
> "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> Wrote in message:
> 
>> David,
>> 
>>> 'Refresh' is doublespeak: deletes what you had setup including some
>>> user data.
>> 
>> Context ?
>> 
>> There are a number of refreshes that do exactly what the words stands for.
>> 
>>> Imagine if someone offered to 'refresh' your house, and then
>>> demolished it and built you a mud hut without any more modern
>>> conveniences/rooms.
>> 
>> Thats a bad analogy, hurting any point you're trying to make.
>> 
>> Even if it truly "deletes what you had setup" than what you would be left 
>> with would be a newbuild, ready-to-live-in house, including rugs, furniture, 
>> washing machine and all the other conveniences.
>> 
>> ... like, in Firefox, having created a new profile.
>> 
>> But a question : did you *really* run something called "refresh" - which 
>> obviously would make changes - without checking what its supposed to do 
>> and/or making a backup first ?
>> 
> I've often come across Refresh, either when I resurrect Nightly
>   having not used it for many months - usually to test my addons
>   when the addons API changes - or start up a machine I haven't
>   used for a long time. I get a message like "It looks like you
>   haven't used Firefox for a long time. Would you like to refresh
>   it?"

This sounds helpful and harmless.  It's not.  How hard could it be to 
add this:  "CAUTION -- REFRESH saves bookmarks and passwords and deletes 
all other personalization.  See details here: <URL>" ?
> I'm pretty sure there's a 'Find out more' link, which perhaps goes
>   here:
> <https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/refresh-firefox-reset-add-ons-and-settings>
> 
> I generally say no and update via 'Help about'.

A lot of people, many of whom should know better including a PhD 
Physics/LLD of my acquaintance, are absolutely ignorant about software 
options etc.  Beyond doing what's necessary to get things going, it's 
all a mystery.  A warning should definitely be given for this seemingly 
kindly suggestion, especially since it's NOT all that difficult to provide.

-- 
Cheers, Bev
    "Life is actually fair. It just doesn't seem to be common
     knowledge that 'fair' sometimes sucks."      -- Jim Cook

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#17987

R.Wieser wrote:
> David,
> 
>> 'Refresh' is doublespeak: deletes what you had setup including some
>> user data.
> 
> Context ?
> 
> There are a number of refreshes that do exactly what the words stands for.
> 
>> Imagine if someone offered to 'refresh' your house, and then
>> demolished it and built you a mud hut without any more modern
>> conveniences/rooms.
> 
> Thats a bad analogy, hurting any point you're trying to make.
> 
> Even if it truly "deletes what you had setup" than what you would be left
> with would be a newbuild, ready-to-live-in house, including rugs, furniture,
> washing machine and all the other conveniences.
> 
> ... like, in Firefox, having created a new profile.
> 
> But a question : did you *really* run something called "refresh" - which
> obviously would make changes - without checking what its supposed to do
> and/or making a backup first ?
> 
> Regards,
> Rudy Wieser
> 
> 

That is not really helpful.  When that query comes, you can't use 
Firefox until you've answered that question.  Don't forget that someone 
does not start Firefox so they can debug a "feature" that they never 
asked for and never expected.  Having fallen into that trap once, my 
short term solution was to always say No and my longer term solution was 
to create a file:
/etc/firefox/policies/policies.json
with content including:

{
  "policies": {
    "DisableProfileRefresh": true
    }
}

I have a number of other settings enforced that way and about:policies 
tells me if some are not being set because I've screwed up the syntax in 
some way (and that's also a reason to have the policies in that file in 
alphabetical order).

That works under Linux, Policies under Windows are (I think) in the 
Install file so I've never bothered with them there.  Some friends use 
Windows, I don't.
I'd expect Firefox on a Mac to work broadly the same way as under Linux.

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#17992

R Daneel Olivaw,

> R.Wieser wrote:
>> David,
>>
>>> 'Refresh' is doublespeak: deletes what you had setup including
>>> some user data.
>>
>> Context ?

 [snip]

> That is not really helpful.  When that query comes, you can't use Firefox
> until you've answered that question.

???? "that query" ????

I think you're responding to the wrong person, and possibly even subthread.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#17977

On Sun, 2 Aug 2026 04:14:14 -0000 (UTC), David Chmelik wrote:

> 'Refresh' is doublespeak: deletes what you had setup including some
> user data. Imagine if someone offered to 'refresh' your house, and
> then demolished it and built you a mud hut without any more modern
> conveniences/rooms. Please remove this dangerous scam offer and make
> it say what it's doing instead of pretending.

Are you sure it’s not a Microsoft Windows problem?

Always worth checking, given the quality of Microsoft’s updates
recently.

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#17982

Op 02-08-2026 om 09:35 schreef Lawrence D’Oliveiro:
> On Sun, 2 Aug 2026 04:14:14 -0000 (UTC), David Chmelik wrote:
> 
>> 'Refresh' is doublespeak: deletes what you had setup including some
>> user data. Imagine if someone offered to 'refresh' your house, and
>> then demolished it and built you a mud hut without any more modern
>> conveniences/rooms. Please remove this dangerous scam offer and make
>> it say what it's doing instead of pretending.
> 
> Are you sure it’s not a Microsoft Windows problem?
> 
> Always worth checking, given the quality of Microsoft’s updates
> recently.

David is on Linux. Or at least he posted from Linux, same setup as you.
In Pan press H to check the headers, always a good plan before blaming
the OS if it isn't mentioned.

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#17983

dillinger,

> Are you sure it's not a Microsoft Windows problem?
...
> David is on Linux. Or at least he posted from Linux, same setup as you.

In a lot less words : Yes, you are sure.

> In Pan press H to check the headers, always a good plan before
> blaming the OS if it isn't mentioned.

It wasn't a blame, but a question to a possibility.

Besides that, when a question  - or in this case : a complaint - is posted 
its upto the poster to supply all the information pertinent to it. 
Assuming that "everyone knows" is not a good starting-point.   Requiring 
that everyone go find the user-agent in the header and from there figure out 
which OS it belongs to isn't a good starting-point either.   Besides that he 
might have posted from a device other than his 'Puter ofcourse.

Point in case : I was not even sure if that "Refresh" wasn't an external 
program (like RegClean and its ilk).

Point in case : When I throw the whole user-agent string into DDG and I get 
(lots of) results related to a city, something about "Thermochemical 
Tables", "Furniture And Homeware", "Pan Am Flight 103 - Wikipedia" and some 
other stuff, but none about a newsgroup-client.   And I went down to page 
six - beyond the "I'm desparate" level :-).

Quoting the whole user-agent string and trying again I get "No results 
found".

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#17989

On 02/08/2026 16:39, R.Wieser wrote:
> dillinger,
> 
>> Are you sure it's not a Microsoft Windows problem?
> ...
>> David is on Linux. Or at least he posted from Linux, same setup as you.
> 
> In a lot less words : Yes, you are sure.
> 
>> In Pan press H to check the headers, always a good plan before
>> blaming the OS if it isn't mentioned.
> 
> It wasn't a blame, but a question to a possibility.
> 
> Besides that, when a question  - or in this case : a complaint - is posted
> its upto the poster to supply all the information pertinent to it.
> Assuming that "everyone knows" is not a good starting-point.   Requiring
> that everyone go find the user-agent in the header and from there figure out
> which OS it belongs to isn't a good starting-point either.   Besides that he
> might have posted from a device other than his 'Puter ofcourse.
> 
> Point in case : I was not even sure if that "Refresh" wasn't an external
> program (like RegClean and its ilk).
> 
> Point in case : When I throw the whole user-agent string into DDG and I get
> (lots of) results related to a city, something about "Thermochemical
> Tables", "Furniture And Homeware", "Pan Am Flight 103 - Wikipedia" and some
> other stuff, but none about a newsgroup-client.   And I went down to page
> six - beyond the "I'm desparate" level :-).
> 
> Quoting the whole user-agent string and trying again I get "No results
> found".
> 
> Regards,
> Rudy Wieser
> 
> 
So you've never seen this, no problem, next time you don't understand 
something just ask. ("What is Refresh?") Without ranting preferably.

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#17991

dillinger,

> So you've never seen this, no problem, next time you don't understand 
> something just ask. ("What is Refresh?") Without ranting preferably.

I'm not the OP. IOW, you're talking to the wrong person.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#17993

On 03/08/2026 08:25, R.Wieser wrote:
> dillinger,
> 
>> So you've never seen this, no problem, next time you don't understand
>> something just ask. ("What is Refresh?") Without ranting preferably.
> 
> I'm not the OP. IOW, you're talking to the wrong person.
> 
> Regards,
> Rudy Wieser
> 
> 
I'm talking to you Rudy, you're the one that's never seen Refresh.

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#17994

dillinger,

>>> So you've never seen this, no problem, next time you don't understand
>>> something just ask. ("What is Refresh?") Without ranting preferably.
>>
>> I'm not the OP. IOW, you're talking to the wrong person.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rudy Wieser
>>
>>
> I'm talking to you Rudy, you're the one that's never seen Refresh.

I do not actually need to see some unmarked/badly marked button/link/program
to know that its not a good idea to just press/click/run it either.

I do not need to inspect software from a random website to know its not a
good idea to just install it.

I do not need to read ChatGPT replies to know that they as easily halucinate
as giving you something to work with.

I do not need to see someone put themselves into a car press and get
squashed to death to know it would not be a good idea to crawl into it
myself - Knowing (not even having seen it for myself) that it can crush a
car into a small cube gives me enough information to work with.

Capiche ?

But feel free to put something forward that counters what I've said - or
even just another POV.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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