Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > alt.comp.os.windows-11 > #16218 > unrolled thread

picture gallery programs that read cameras?

Back to article view | Back to alt.comp.os.windows-11

Contents

  picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-11 23:17 -0800
    Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Hank Rogers <invalid@nospam.com> - 2025-01-12 08:50 +0000
      Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-12 01:38 -0800
        Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-12 03:12 -0800
    Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-12 11:36 +0000
      Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-12 12:42 -0800
        Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-12 22:34 +0000
        Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> - 2025-01-13 09:53 -0700
          Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-13 15:32 -0800
    Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? mick <nospam@junk.mail> - 2025-01-12 13:16 +0000
      Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-12 13:34 -0800
        Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-12 14:31 -0800
          Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-12 21:34 -0500
            Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-12 19:58 -0800
              Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-12 23:16 -0500
    Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-12 08:29 -0500
      Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-12 12:43 -0800
    Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-12 08:56 -0500
      Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-12 12:48 -0800
    Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-12 16:31 +0000
      Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-12 12:47 -0800
        Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-12 21:11 +0000
          Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-12 13:28 -0800
            Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-13 15:33 +0000
              Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-13 15:34 -0800
                Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-13 16:17 -0800
                  Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-13 19:32 -0500
                    Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-13 16:45 -0800
                Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-14 15:06 +0000
                  Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-17 16:08 -0800
                    Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-18 13:25 +0000
                      Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-18 07:04 -0800
          Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-12 13:31 -0800
            Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-12 22:30 -0500
              Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-12 20:01 -0800
            Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-13 15:34 +0000
              Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-13 13:54 -0500
    Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Tony <noreply@ghtyhgfrt.com> - 2025-01-13 00:26 +0000
      Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-12 20:04 -0800
        Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-13 00:54 -0500
        Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-13 16:07 +0000
          Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-13 14:05 -0500
            Re: picture gallery programs that read cameras? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-13 20:31 +0000

Page 3 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3]

#16256

T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 1/12/25 4:26 PM, Tony wrote:
[...]

> > Adobe bridge free version:
> > 
> > https://www.adobe.com/uk/products/bridge.html
> 
> That looks like overkill.
> 
> Be nice if IrfanView would do it.  Don't
> suppose they have a plug in for MTP?

  IrfanView can access a camera via MTP, just do File -> Open... But it
can not sequence through pictures in the normal way, 'Next file in
folder/list', etc. do not work.

  This is probably a limitation of MTP, because the same thing happens
if you open a file in the camera 'device' part of File Explorer with for
example the Photos app. Also in that case, you can't sequence through
the pictures, you can only open/close them one at a time.

  So a "picture gallery program" needs to specifically support PTP/MTP.

  As Paul mentioned, on the Wikipedia 'Comparison of image viewers'
page, only *one* viewer supports MTP/PTP.

  So your request is not as simple as you say, especially because you
reject camera-manufacturer software for no good reason.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16264

On Mon, 1/13/2025 11:07 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 1/12/25 4:26 PM, Tony wrote:
> [...]
> 
>>> Adobe bridge free version:
>>>
>>> https://www.adobe.com/uk/products/bridge.html
>>
>> That looks like overkill.
>>
>> Be nice if IrfanView would do it.  Don't
>> suppose they have a plug in for MTP?
> 
>   IrfanView can access a camera via MTP, just do File -> Open... But it
> can not sequence through pictures in the normal way, 'Next file in
> folder/list', etc. do not work.
> 
>   This is probably a limitation of MTP, because the same thing happens
> if you open a file in the camera 'device' part of File Explorer with for
> example the Photos app. Also in that case, you can't sequence through
> the pictures, you can only open/close them one at a time.
> 
>   So a "picture gallery program" needs to specifically support PTP/MTP.
> 
>   As Paul mentioned, on the Wikipedia 'Comparison of image viewers'
> page, only *one* viewer supports MTP/PTP.
> 
>   So your request is not as simple as you say, especially because you
> reject camera-manufacturer software for no good reason.
> 

The developer has to write a version of "FindNextFile" for MTP :-)

That would allow traversal.

If you use MTPDrive and mount MTP as if it was mtpFS on Linux,
then it would get a drive letter and traverse via the build-in
MSDOS-era FindNextfile. There is a pair of routines, FindFirstFile
and FindNextfile, and those are important primitives for a lot
of windows activities.

It's not like Microsoft does not know how to do this. It
has the IFS thing (Installable File System) and if Microsoft
wanted to do a mtpFS like Linux or make a userspace program
like MTPDrive, they could easily do it. Microsoft invented MTP,
and it's likely "clumsy on purpose". No attempt made to integrate
it properly.

MTP, part of the reason for even inventing it, was to enforce DRM.
If a camera device had the "DoNotCopy" bit set on a file, then
MTP could be used to enforce the "can't make a copy' thing. An
attempt to copy a DoNotCopy file, should fail. However, I've not
read any user accounts of actual DRM-fueled failures. Most of the
materials stored in a persons DCIM are going to be locally
captured with a camera sensor, not "stolen from Hollywood".

On a PVR, I doubt the interface on the thing is MTP, but I could
be wrong. That would be a perfect place to throw up a blanket wall
of "copy failures" as DoNotCopy is set on just about everything
coming through the TV antenna.

   Paul

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16266

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 1/13/2025 11:07 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 1/12/25 4:26 PM, Tony wrote:
> > [...]
> > 
> >>> Adobe bridge free version:
> >>>
> >>> https://www.adobe.com/uk/products/bridge.html
> >>
> >> That looks like overkill.
> >>
> >> Be nice if IrfanView would do it.  Don't
> >> suppose they have a plug in for MTP?
> > 
> >   IrfanView can access a camera via MTP, just do File -> Open... But it
> > can not sequence through pictures in the normal way, 'Next file in
> > folder/list', etc. do not work.
> > 
> >   This is probably a limitation of MTP, because the same thing happens
> > if you open a file in the camera 'device' part of File Explorer with for
> > example the Photos app. Also in that case, you can't sequence through
> > the pictures, you can only open/close them one at a time.
> > 
> >   So a "picture gallery program" needs to specifically support PTP/MTP.
> > 
> >   As Paul mentioned, on the Wikipedia 'Comparison of image viewers'
> > page, only *one* viewer supports MTP/PTP.
> > 
> >   So your request is not as simple as you say, especially because you
> > reject camera-manufacturer software for no good reason.
> > 
> 
> The developer has to write a version of "FindNextFile" for MTP :-)
> 
> That would allow traversal.
> 
> If you use MTPDrive and mount MTP as if it was mtpFS on Linux,
> then it would get a drive letter and traverse via the build-in
> MSDOS-era FindNextfile. There is a pair of routines, FindFirstFile
> and FindNextfile, and those are important primitives for a lot
> of windows activities.
> 
> It's not like Microsoft does not know how to do this. It
> has the IFS thing (Installable File System) and if Microsoft
> wanted to do a mtpFS like Linux or make a userspace program
> like MTPDrive, they could easily do it. Microsoft invented MTP,
> and it's likely "clumsy on purpose". No attempt made to integrate
> it properly.

  Yes, one *could* make a kind of mtpFS file system or a kind of
MTPDrive drive on Windows, but IMO the point is, that as the name
indicates, MTP is a file *transfer* protocol, not a file *access*
protocol. So it's like FTP, not like NFS.

  Like with FTP, hacking a transfer protocol into a would-be access
protocol, is bound to fail. A hack will always be a hack and hence
people will - rightfully so - complain about the limitations,
diosyncrasies, etc. of the hack. And that's exactly what also happened
here with the hack of making a MTP/PTP device look like sort-of a file
system in (Windows) File Explorer. It *isn't* a file system, live with
it! Use it, as it was intended, for *transferring* files.

> MTP, part of the reason for even inventing it, was to enforce DRM.
> If a camera device had the "DoNotCopy" bit set on a file, then
> MTP could be used to enforce the "can't make a copy' thing. An
> attempt to copy a DoNotCopy file, should fail. However, I've not
> read any user accounts of actual DRM-fueled failures. Most of the
> materials stored in a persons DCIM are going to be locally
> captured with a camera sensor, not "stolen from Hollywood".
> 
> On a PVR, I doubt the interface on the thing is MTP, but I could
> be wrong. That would be a perfect place to throw up a blanket wall
> of "copy failures" as DoNotCopy is set on just about everything
> coming through the TV antenna.

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Page 3 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3]

Back to top | Article view | alt.comp.os.windows-11

csiph-web