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Groups > alt.comp.os.windows-11 > #15495 > unrolled thread
| Started by | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2024-12-19 20:03 -0500 |
| Last post | 2024-12-25 16:19 -0500 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 199 — 26 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.comp.os.windows-11
The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-19 20:03 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2024-12-19 19:55 -0700
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 16:52 +0800
Re: The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-21 07:26 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 23:15 +0800
Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-23 23:24 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 11:48 +0800
Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-25 06:54 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-25 20:39 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-27 22:23 +0800
Re: The problem with not owning the software Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2024-12-27 11:31 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-28 07:04 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 16:53 +0800
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-28 19:34 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 15:07 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 15:12 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 17:11 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 17:17 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 13:16 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 14:24 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 15:39 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 16:06 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 17:10 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 17:39 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 18:58 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 19:10 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 19:21 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:55 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 18:02 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 18:35 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 19:51 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 20:00 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-29 22:34 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 03:48 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 19:55 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 20:15 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 21:49 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Jack Sovalot <hee-cawkforme@jack.sovalot> - 2024-12-30 04:06 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 08:31 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-30 19:12 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:53 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 21:06 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-31 11:01 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 19:00 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 19:52 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 01:46 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 20:52 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-01 17:02 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-01-18 11:54 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 18:46 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:51 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 09:34 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 00:53 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:42 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:09 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:44 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:05 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:14 +0100
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:25 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 10:09 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 00:32 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-29 01:43 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 20:52 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 07:05 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 06:58 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 21:17 +0100
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-29 20:41 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:31 +0100
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-30 10:56 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 03:24 +0100
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 13:50 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-31 13:18 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:14 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-01 07:44 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:22 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 19:36 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:09 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 20:27 +0100
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:16 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:57 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 18:50 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-30 02:30 +0100
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:55 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 07:05 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 01:00 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 16:15 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-29 16:39 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:00 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 19:08 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:30 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 07:00 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-30 12:53 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:52 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-30 13:01 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:56 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:25 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:57 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 16:45 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:31 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:33 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-02 00:15 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 05:33 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:03 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:32 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-04 04:50 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 08:52 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:42 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 01:05 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:59 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 10:01 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-04 21:13 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-04 21:50 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:39 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 00:59 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 01:52 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 03:04 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:07 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:22 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 08:23 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 22:47 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 00:12 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-07 02:10 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 14:12 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 02:26 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 13:28 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 21:28 +0000
[OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 01:50 +0000
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 03:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 03:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 06:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 08:20 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 21:18 -0500
[OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 02:34 +0000
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 22:08 -0500
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 22:34 -0500
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-05 07:19 -0500
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-05 10:39 -0500
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 03:39 +0000
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 08:13 -0500
Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-05 08:52 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:32 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 20:53 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 21:26 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 06:38 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 07:17 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2024-12-29 13:19 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 08:48 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-12-29 08:02 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 09:08 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:32 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:46 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 20:56 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 17:03 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 23:32 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 13:21 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> - 2024-12-29 07:41 -0700
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:05 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-03 09:09 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-03 20:33 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-01-03 21:00 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-03 23:28 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 21:17 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:57 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 22:25 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:19 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-04 04:49 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 01:10 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:52 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 15:55 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:20 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 08:11 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 23:20 -0600
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 11:53 +0800
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 10:08 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 20:32 +0100
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 21:34 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 16:47 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:29 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 21:59 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-02 18:01 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 11:26 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-03 08:55 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 14:33 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 19:32 -0500
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:46 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-05 15:46 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:17 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-06 14:57 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:47 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:14 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:09 +0000
Re: The problem with not owning the software bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-12-25 16:19 -0500
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 16:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vleanj$13pqe$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16112 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 00:59:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> >>> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing >>> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source software >>> turns into a complete nightmare. >> >> Hardly. > > Pro tip: a denial is not a refutation. Have been using OSS on Mac for 15+ years, including building packages from source. Far, far easier than on Windows. Given that macOS is a single platform it is sometimes even simpler than linux where there's multiple ways to achieve the same thing depending on whether it Redhat, debian or ubuntu based and type of kernel you have.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-06 00:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vlf7n7$197h8$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16131 |
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing >> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source >> software turns into a complete nightmare. > > Have been using OSS on Mac for 15+ years, including building packages > from source. Far, far easier than on Windows. That kind of thing doesn’t scale without a package manager, though. How many hundred open-source packages were you able to build and install at once?
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-06 08:23 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vlg3uj$1hec0$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16144 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> >>> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing >>> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source >>> software turns into a complete nightmare. >> >> Have been using OSS on Mac for 15+ years, including building packages >> from source. Far, far easier than on Windows. > > That kind of thing doesn’t scale without a package manager, though. How > many hundred open-source packages were you able to build and install at > once? My point is that most OSS software that users need are available as ready-to-use downloads. There's no ubiquitous need for linux-like package manager on macOS. Useful? Probably. Necessary? Nope. Asking users to do a "brew install firefox" is a non-starter.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-06 22:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vlhmir$1r4f4$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16148 |
On Mon, 6 Jan 2025 08:23:47 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: >> >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing >>>> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source >>>> software turns into a complete nightmare. >>> >>> Have been using OSS on Mac for 15+ years, including building packages >>> from source. Far, far easier than on Windows. >> >> That kind of thing doesn’t scale without a package manager, though. How >> many hundred open-source packages were you able to build and install at >> once? > > My point is that most OSS software that users need are available as > ready-to-use downloads. But you did say you were “including building packages from source”. How complex were those builds you managed? Does each download include all its dependencies?
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-07 00:12 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vlhrh2$1s86o$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16155 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Mon, 6 Jan 2025 08:23:47 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:07:15 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: >>> >>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>>> >>>>> That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is missing >>>>> from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source >>>>> software turns into a complete nightmare. >>>> >>>> Have been using OSS on Mac for 15+ years, including building packages >>>> from source. Far, far easier than on Windows. >>> >>> That kind of thing doesn’t scale without a package manager, though. How >>> many hundred open-source packages were you able to build and install at >>> once? >> >> My point is that most OSS software that users need are available as >> ready-to-use downloads. > > But you did say you were “including building packages from source”. More to illustrate that building from source was possible. It wasn't the default. > How > complex were those builds you managed? Does each download include all its > dependencies? Fairly simple to moderately complex with internal and external dependencies, but that was a while back. I don't do much of that kind of stuff anymore.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-07 02:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vli2ed$1t3lt$7@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16157 |
On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 00:12:18 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > More to illustrate that building from source was possible. I never said it wasn’t, just that it doesn’t scale well without a proper package manager to help with the dependencies -- something that macOS lacks. >> How complex were those builds you managed? Does each download include >> all its dependencies? > > Fairly simple to moderately complex with internal and external > dependencies, but that was a while back. How did you handle getting hold of the dependencies for each build?
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-07 14:12 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vljcor$281vn$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16159 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 00:12:18 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > >> More to illustrate that building from source was possible. > > I never said it wasn’t, just that it doesn’t scale well without a proper > package manager to help with the dependencies -- something that macOS > lacks. It doesn't lack it, it's simply not part of the core OS as it is a niche requirement. That's the beauty of an OSS community. Additional capabilities are available to those who want/need them. >>> How complex were those builds you managed? Does each download include >>> all its dependencies? >> >> Fairly simple to moderately complex with internal and external >> dependencies, but that was a while back. > > How did you handle getting hold of the dependencies for each build? With a package manager, obviously. Firstly, macports and then homebrew. You're focusing on the exception rather than the rule, however. Installing OSS is not a "complete nightmare" without a package manager *because* most software is already packaged for easy installation. Either via the developer themselves or the App Store. If you are expert enough to want to install stuff from source then you can on macos with the help of Homebrew.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-08 02:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vlknnv$2fte8$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16162 |
On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 14:12:43 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > Installing OSS is not a "complete nightmare" without a package manager > *because* most software is already packaged for easy installation. Including its dependencies? So if multiple packages share the same dependency, you end up with multiple copies of that dependency?
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-08 13:28 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vlluie$2q228$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16166 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 14:12:43 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > >> Installing OSS is not a "complete nightmare" without a package manager >> *because* most software is already packaged for easy installation. > > Including its dependencies? So if multiple packages share the same > dependency, you end up with multiple copies of that dependency? Depends on the dependency, but often yes. Just like on Windows and, sometimes, Linux with pre-packaged/compiled software.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-08 21:28 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vlmqlr$2vb42$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16168 |
On Wed, 8 Jan 2025 13:28:46 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 14:12:43 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: >> >>> Installing OSS is not a "complete nightmare" without a package manager >>> *because* most software is already packaged for easy installation. >> >> Including its dependencies? So if multiple packages share the same >> dependency, you end up with multiple copies of that dependency? > > Depends on the dependency, but often yes. Just like on Windows and, > sometimes, Linux with pre-packaged/compiled software. That’s one of the things package managers are designed to handle properly.
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| From | snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 01:50 +0000 |
| Subject | [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software |
| Message-ID | <1r5nz09.lm4w1u8x2u7zN%snipeco.2@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #16087 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote: [silent megasnip, tsk] > > [OT] That's the great thing about Apple: from the users' viewpoint > > it all "just works". > > > > Until it doesn't. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something > like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is > missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source > software turns into a complete nightmare. > I don't feel that need. Why would I want to do that when I have a penguin flavoured VM? In any case, 99% of Mac users have absolutely no need for open-source s/w but any user with such an esoteric requirement knows how to deal with it. There is far more to computing for the vast majority of users than the ability to run open-source. Get real! -- ^Ï^. Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS My pet rock Gordon just is.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 03:01 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software |
| Message-ID | <vlcslg$nnc8$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16097 |
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote: > There is far more to computing for the vast majority of users than the > ability to run open-source. Get real! The reality is, just about the entire computing ecosystem nowadays is crucially dependent on open source at some point. There is no longer any getting away from it. It underlies everything.
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| From | snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 03:25 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software |
| Message-ID | <1r5o3l0.eg07bf14jfqflN%snipeco.2@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #16111 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote: > > > There is far more to computing for the vast majority of users than > > the ability to run open-source. Get real! > > > > The reality is, just about the entire computing ecosystem nowadays is > crucially dependent on open source at some point. There is no longer > any getting away from it. It underlies everything. > Maybe so, but you've missed the point that the users (those 99% of people who use their computers as tools not toys) neither need to know that nor do they care about it. Their requirements are transparently (for them) catered for by existing software. -- ^Ï^. Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS My pet rock Gordon just is.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 06:47 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software |
| Message-ID | <vld9u6$tkj5$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16115 |
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 03:25:55 +0000, Sn!pe wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote: >> >>> There is far more to computing for the vast majority of users than >>> the ability to run open-source. Get real! >>> >> The reality is, just about the entire computing ecosystem nowadays is >> crucially dependent on open source at some point. There is no longer >> any getting away from it. It underlies everything. >> > Maybe so, but ... the users (those 99% of > people who use their computers as tools not toys) neither need to know > that nor do they care about it. Open Source is like the car with a bonnet you can open. Most users never look under the bonnet of their car. So why not sell cars with sealed bonnets? Because a car with a bonnet that can be opened can be serviced by any competent mechanic -- you don’t have to take your car back to the manufacturer for everything. Imagine how expensive car maintenance would be if the original manufacturer had a monopoly on it--and how much more likely they would be to tell you that it is unfixable and must be replaced, just because they would rather sell you a new model. It is free- market competition that keeps prices down, and gives you such a choice of market products. Open Source brings free-market competition to the software industry.
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| From | Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 08:20 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software |
| Message-ID | <rGveP.448746$0O61.357629@fx15.iad> |
| In reply to | #16121 |
On 2025-01-05 01:47, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 03:25:55 +0000, Sn!pe wrote: > >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote: >>> >>>> There is far more to computing for the vast majority of users than >>>> the ability to run open-source. Get real! >>>> >>> The reality is, just about the entire computing ecosystem nowadays is >>> crucially dependent on open source at some point. There is no longer >>> any getting away from it. It underlies everything. >>> >> Maybe so, but ... the users (those 99% of >> people who use their computers as tools not toys) neither need to know >> that nor do they care about it. > > Open Source is like the car with a bonnet you can open. Most users never > look under the bonnet of their car. So why not sell cars with sealed > bonnets? > > Because a car with a bonnet that can be opened can be serviced by any > competent mechanic -- you don’t have to take your car back to the > manufacturer for everything. Imagine how expensive car maintenance would > be if the original manufacturer had a monopoly on it--and how much more > likely they would be to tell you that it is unfixable and must be > replaced, just because they would rather sell you a new model. It is free- > market competition that keeps prices down, and gives you such a choice of > market products. > > Open Source brings free-market competition to the software industry. There is absolutely nothing I can disagree with there. Your example is especially significant since my brother and sister in law decided to make Audi their favourite car brand a few years ago in response to my wife's decision to buy a luxury car for her work (she needed to be presentable). They are jealous people who always feel the need to one-up us even though we're not competing with them in any way. Anyway, they could barely afford the car so when it came time to fix it, the wife decided to have her husband fix it himself rather than go to the dealership or a competent mechanic. He quickly realized that unlike the Chevrolet and Hyundai they owned before, the Audi required special tools to open it up. Similarly, it needed non-standard parts for the repair itself. Clearly, such practical people should have bought from a company which allows people to fix the vehicles themselves, but that wouldn't have provided them the second or two of satisfaction at the thought they might have made us jealous. -- Andrzej (Andre) Matuch Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41 KDE supporting member
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| From | Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-04 21:18 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <IZleP.16280$YXj.12982@fx34.iad> |
| In reply to | #16087 |
On 2025-01-04 19:39, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote: > >> [OT] That's the great thing about Apple: from the users' viewpoint it >> all "just works". > > Until it doesn’t. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something > like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is > missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source > software turns into a complete nightmare. I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux. -- Andrzej (Andre) Matuch Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41 KDE supporting member
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| From | snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 02:34 +0000 |
| Subject | [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software |
| Message-ID | <1r5o1m0.17kz7ud4927t7N%snipeco.2@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #16102 |
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote: > On 2025-01-04 19:39, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > > On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote: [big snip] > >> [OT] That's the great thing about Apple: from the users' viewpoint it > >> all "just works". > >> > > > > Until it doesn't. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something > > like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is > > missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source > > software turns into a complete nightmare. > > > > I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's > storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux. > Fair comment. You're in a very small minority for wanting to do this. -- ^Ï^. Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS My pet rock Gordon just is.
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| From | Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-04 22:08 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software |
| Message-ID | <MImeP.224552$DPl.6768@fx13.iad> |
| In reply to | #16103 |
On 2025-01-04 21:34, Sn!pe wrote: > Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote: > >> On 2025-01-04 19:39, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote: > > [big snip] > >>>> [OT] That's the great thing about Apple: from the users' viewpoint it >>>> all "just works". >>>> >>> >>> Until it doesn't. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something >>> like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is >>> missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source >>> software turns into a complete nightmare. >>> >> >> I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's >> storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux. >> > > Fair comment. You're in a very small minority for wanting to do this. Sure, because Mac users typically don't care how the computer works; they just want to use the software to accomplish something. Checking wear, upgrading and changing components is all beneath them. Those who would wish to do such things are peons. Seriously though, I like the Apple-silicon Macs but I'm realizing that I'm not the kind of person who would be content knowing that whatever I purchased can't be changed in the slightest after purchase. I love how easily Apple hardware communicates with other Apple hardware and find MacOS to be a nice system, but I'm realizing that the best compromise for me is Linux delivered by a steady community like that of Fedora. -- Andrzej (Andre) Matuch Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41 KDE supporting member
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| From | -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-04 22:34 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software |
| Message-ID | <vlcuki$ndi8$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16113 |
On 1/4/25 10:08 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote: > On 2025-01-04 21:34, Sn!pe wrote: >> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote: >> >>> On 2025-01-04 19:39, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >>>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote: >> [big snip] >> >>>>> [OT] That's the great thing about Apple: from the users' viewpoint it >>>>> all "just works". >>>>> >>>> Until it doesn't. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for >>>> something >>>> like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality >>>> that is >>>> missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source >>>> software turns into a complete nightmare. >>>> >>> >>> I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's >>> storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux. >>> >> >> Fair comment. You're in a very small minority for wanting to do this. > > Sure, because Mac users typically don't care how the computer works; > they just want to use the software to accomplish something. Checking > wear, upgrading and changing components is all beneath them. Those who > would wish to do such things are peons. Reminds me of a friend who sends me an email 2x/year that's a copy of the report of the latest chemical analysis from his car's most recent oil change: dude, its fine that you want your car to last, but its not going to be preserved in a museum! > Seriously though, I like the Apple-silicon Macs but I'm realizing that > I'm not the kind of person who would be content knowing that whatever I > purchased can't be changed in the slightest after purchase. I love how > easily Apple hardware communicates with other Apple hardware and find > MacOS to be a nice system, but I'm realizing that the best compromise > for me is Linux delivered by a steady community like that of Fedora. I think what changed for me was recognizing that I no longer need to go through extraordinary efforts to make an PC last a decade anymore, because their costs have declined so dramatically over the past 40 years. -hh
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| From | Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-05 07:19 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software |
| Message-ID | <vldtc9$10lk8$9@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16116 |
-hh wrote this post while blinking in Morse code: > <snip> > > I think what changed for me was recognizing that I no longer need to go > through extraordinary efforts to make an PC last a decade anymore, > because their costs have declined so dramatically over the past 40 years. Extraordinary efforts? I have a 12+ year-old laptop that's been a Linux box for all of its life (after it got delivered to me). The only extraordinary effort I took was installing an SSD. The thing is shut down right now; Imma keeping it around for potential later usage. (I've got an old desktop box sitting up in the attic. Not sure I will ever power it on again. Noisy, takes up too much room.) -- In Columbia, Pennsylvania, it is against the law for a pilot to tickle a female flying student under her chin with a feather duster in order to get her attention.
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