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What is critical Windows 11 hardware

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  What is critical Windows 11 hardware Oliver <ollie@invalid.net> - 2025-02-04 01:15 -0700
    Re: What is critical Windows 11 hardware Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-04 06:39 -0500
    Re: What is critical Windows 11 hardware Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-02-04 11:50 +0000
      Re: What is critical Windows 11 hardware Oliver <ollie@invalid.net> - 2025-02-04 15:36 -0700
    Re: What is critical Windows 11 hardware Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-02-04 07:35 -0500
      Re: What is critical Windows 11 hardware Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-04 08:39 -0500
        Re: What is critical Windows 11 hardware Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-04 14:09 +0000
    Re: What is critical Windows 11 hardware Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-06 13:26 +0000
      Re: What is critical Windows 11 hardware Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-06 17:04 +0000

#16787 — What is critical Windows 11 hardware

I have a BIOS (not UEFI) desktop so I read this with interest.
Microsoft hides workaround for installing Windows 11 on older PCs
https://www.techspot.com/news/106619-microsoft-hides-official-workaround-installing-windows-11-older.html

What they say is Microsoft has been routinely removing its online support
articles about Windows 11. The "ways to install" the operating system have
recently been revised, and there are now no official workarounds for
installing the latest Windows release to unsupported, older machines.

But what is really critical hardware for Windows 11?
Versus what is just nice to have (which I probably do not have)?

Apparently one issue is TPM 2.0 which I don't have, as I entered tpm.msc
trusted platform module management console which said I don't have it.

But apparently you don't really need TPM 2.0 so it's confusing what is
actually critical for installing Windows 11 vs which is just nice to have.

But they provided a wayback machine snapshot of the missing page.
https://web.archive.org/web/20240929145620/https:/support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/ways-to-install-windows-11-e0edbbfb-cfc5-4011-868b-2ce77ac7c70e

Before I do any of that to upgrade to Windows 11, what else should I test
on my desktop PC which is currently running Windows 10 Pro?

All I want to test for is the presence (or not) of just the most critical
mandatory Windows-11-required hardware as I won't have the nice-to-have hw.

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#16790

On Tue, 2/4/2025 3:15 AM, Oliver wrote:
> I have a BIOS (not UEFI) desktop so I read this with interest.
> Microsoft hides workaround for installing Windows 11 on older PCs
> https://www.techspot.com/news/106619-microsoft-hides-official-workaround-installing-windows-11-older.html
> 
> What they say is Microsoft has been routinely removing its online support
> articles about Windows 11. The "ways to install" the operating system have
> recently been revised, and there are now no official workarounds for
> installing the latest Windows release to unsupported, older machines.
> 
> But what is really critical hardware for Windows 11?
> Versus what is just nice to have (which I probably do not have)?
> 
> Apparently one issue is TPM 2.0 which I don't have, as I entered tpm.msc
> trusted platform module management console which said I don't have it.
> 
> But apparently you don't really need TPM 2.0 so it's confusing what is
> actually critical for installing Windows 11 vs which is just nice to have.
> 
> But they provided a wayback machine snapshot of the missing page.
> https://web.archive.org/web/20240929145620/https:/support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/ways-to-install-windows-11-e0edbbfb-cfc5-4011-868b-2ce77ac7c70e
> 
> Before I do any of that to upgrade to Windows 11, what else should I test
> on my desktop PC which is currently running Windows 10 Pro?
> 
> All I want to test for is the presence (or not) of just the most critical
> mandatory Windows-11-required hardware as I won't have the nice-to-have hw.

Don't waste your time on this HealthCheck...

For example, this could refuse to run, claiming
"Your organization controls Windows Update". I had to change drives
a couple times, until I found an OS ready to roll.

https://aka.ms/GetPCHealthCheckApp

Name: WindowsPCHealthCheckSetup.msi
Size: 14,348,288 bytes (13 MiB)
SHA256: DF9F81457E7FC9D670EB9A329ED55E3D7BA2DE4DC4D71E7FCC246239D27BEF04

Yellow:   This PC must support Secure Boot [UEFI BIOS feature, code for TPM based attestation]
Yellow:   TPM 2.0 must be supported and enabled on this PC.
          TPM not detected.

Red:      The processor isn't currently supported for Windows 11.
          Intel Core i7-4930K CPU @ 3.40GHz

          ["Not on the approved list" <snicker>]
          [Lacks MBEC support (now listed on ark.intel.com entries which support the feature) ]
          [Does have POPCNT/SSE42 instruction (installer blocks without this) E8400 lacks this ]
          [Does have VT-X Support (sandboxing, WSL2, HyperV) ]

Green:    There is at least 4 GB of system memory (RAM). [Needs more really]
Green:    The system disk is 64 GB or larger.
Green:    The processor has two or more cores [Six cores is a good number].

Install the OS on a capable PC, move the hard drive over
to the non-capable PC. What happens ? It turns off a bunch
of features and boots like it was Windows 10.

For example, the PC in the above description, is running Windows 11 right now :-)

You can build a https://rufus.ie USB stick with modified ISO contents
and run the Setup.exe from it, and install Windows 11. the interface of Rufus
has some tick boxes for disabling blocker checks of various sorts. If you
have an E8400 or an E7500, those don't have POPCNT, and Rufus does not disable
that check, because if you bypass that check, the OS will (it is claimed) crash
on the next boot.

If you did a legacy (MSDOS) install of Windows 10 back in 2015, or you installed
windows 10 32-bit, these would be examples of bad things. There is an assumption
of a GPT disk setup, and a 64-bit OS. You can use MBR2GPT.exe utility, to switch
over to GPT, but that only works for the simplest disk setup, and it is not
without issues. So there are some issues that aren't "health issues" but they
will never the less cause a rollback or a refusal.

Do a full backup of your hard drive, before acting, and make sure no excess
disks are present (depending on the kind of install you end up doing). The
usual rules about "safe" install practices apply.

   Paul

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#16791

Oliver wrote:

> The "ways to install" the operating system have recently been
> revised, and there are now no official workarounds for installing
> the latest Windows release to unsupported, older machines.

None of the workarounds were ever official (on Home and Pro editions of 
Win11).

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#16811

On Tue, 4 Feb 2025 11:50:05 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote 

>> The "ways to install" the operating system have recently been
>> revised, and there are now no official workarounds for installing
>> the latest Windows release to unsupported, older machines.
> 
> None of the workarounds were ever official (on Home and Pro editions of 
> Win11).

The referenced article used the word "official" so I repeated it.

I suspect they meant the word "official" to indicate that the instructions
how to port legacy machines to Windows 11 came directly from Microsoft. 

They're warning us, I guess, that Microsoft doesn't publish how to do it.
https://www.techspot.com/news/105894-microsoft-now-officially-allows-windows-11-installation-unsupported.html

Microsoft even apparently published how to remove the persistent watermark.
https://www.techspot.com/news/97748-how-remove-unsupported-pc-watermark-windows-11.html

The problem I have, of course, is that my legacy BIOS has no TPM hardware.
https://www.techspot.com/news/105834-microsoft-windows-11-requirement-tpm-20-chip-non.html

But luckily I'm not the only one who is still "stuck" on the Windows 10 OS.
https://www.techspot.com/news/105801-market-share-surprise-windows-10-popularity-increasing.html

As Windows 11 users are finding more & more hardware that's not compatible.
https://www.techspot.com/news/105736-windows-11-24h2-now-incompatible-usb-scanning-devices.html

It seems more than half of Windows users are like me, still on Windows 10.
https://www.techspot.com/news/106223-end-windows-10-support-year-threatens-over-60.html

However, slowly but surely, people are giving up & going to Windows 11.
https://www.techspot.com/news/106617-windows-11-reaches-highest-market-share-windows-10.html

I won't purchase security updates, but they last only 1 year anyways.
https://www.techspot.com/news/105391-microsoft-consumers-purchase-security-updates-windows-10-after.html

For now, this is the official way supported by Microsoft to install Win11.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/ways-to-install-windows-11-e0edbbfb-cfc5-4011-868b-2ce77ac7c70e

Notice that's the same link (but different text) as in the archives.
https://web.archive.org/web/20240929145620/https:/support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/ways-to-install-windows-11-e0edbbfb-cfc5-4011-868b-2ce77ac7c70e

Anyway, I will likely have to finally learn how to use Rufus I guess.
https://www.techspot.com/downloads/6062-rufus.html

Or maybe Ventoy?
https://www.techspot.com/downloads/7286-ventoy.html

The procedure has to be well documented for me to even try to risk it.
Where if there is critical missing hardware, I am doomed to fail at it.

Which is why I'm asking what is the critical hardware for Windows 11?

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#16793

On 2/4/2025 3:15 AM, Oliver wrote:

> All I want to test for is the presence (or not) of just the most critical
> mandatory Windows-11-required hardware as I won't have the nice-to-have 

    I'm not an expert on this, but I have a laptop
that's an i3, and a self-assembled box with an i5
and TPM disabled. Both have Win11 in a dual boot.
The latter is 24H2. In neither case did it complain.

   That seems to be in conflict with the reported
restrictions. In both cases I just downloaded the
ISO. So I wonder if it's possible that the restrictions
only apply if you offer up your system to MS to do
with what they will?

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#16795

On Tue, 2/4/2025 7:35 AM, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 2/4/2025 3:15 AM, Oliver wrote:
> 
>> All I want to test for is the presence (or not) of just the most critical
>> mandatory Windows-11-required hardware as I won't have the nice-to-have 
> 
>    I'm not an expert on this, but I have a laptop
> that's an i3, and a self-assembled box with an i5
> and TPM disabled. Both have Win11 in a dual boot.
> The latter is 24H2. In neither case did it complain.
> 
>   That seems to be in conflict with the reported
> restrictions. In both cases I just downloaded the
> ISO. So I wonder if it's possible that the restrictions
> only apply if you offer up your system to MS to do
> with what they will?
> 

This stuff does not come with a "money back guarantee".

We can only cover the high points and "hope for the best".

It may mean the install process looks a bit empirical.
And takes more than one try to get right.

On the Optiplex 780, I tried to Upgrade install
Win10 21H2 to 22H2. The install ran for an hour and
rolled back. I didn't have any evidence as to what
exactly happened, but on a hunch, I put in a different
video card, and the install completed. That is an example of
something the "Health Check" did not catch.

   Paul

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#16798

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

[About Windows 11 on unsupported hardware:]

> This stuff does not come with a "money back guarantee".
> 
> We can only cover the high points and "hope for the best".
> 
> It may mean the install process looks a bit empirical.
> And takes more than one try to get right.

  Exactly. There's no guarantee that 1) you'll get new updates, nor 2)
that you can manually get and install new updates, nor 3) that you can
get and install new versions.

  So for a daily driver, you need to be willing and prepared for to get
stuck with an out-of-support system, i.e. like a 7 or 8.1 or ('soon') 10
system.

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#16848

On 2025-02-04 08:15, Oliver wrote:
>
> But they provided a wayback machine snapshot of the missing page.
> https://web.archive.org/web/20240929145620/https:/support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/ways-to-install-windows-11-e0edbbfb-cfc5-4011-868b-2ce77ac7c70e

Thanks for this.  The Registry hack there has enabled me to begin an 
upgrade from 10 to 11 which is happening on my second PC right now, 
currently at 57%.  We'll see how it goes.

BTW, if you have hibernation enabled on the build to be upgraded, and 
you receive a message concerning insufficient disk space, just 
temporarily turn off hibernation during the upgrade, and turn it back on 
once the upgrade is completed and you have deleted the old files from 
the previous OS that it leaves hanging around.  You can do this during 
the upgrade by running a command prompt as Administrator, giving the 
command ...
     powercfg /h off
... returning to upgrade window, and clicking Refresh.  Obviously, you 
use ...
     powercfg /h on
... to re-enable hibernation post upgrade once you have cleared 
sufficient disk space.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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#16853

On 2025-02-06 13:26, Java Jive wrote:
>
> On 2025-02-04 08:15, Oliver wrote:
>>
>> But they provided a wayback machine snapshot of the missing page.
>> https://web.archive.org/web/20240929145620/https:/support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/ways-to-install-windows-11-e0edbbfb-cfc5-4011-868b-2ce77ac7c70e
> 
> Thanks for this.  The Registry hack there has enabled me to begin an 
> upgrade from 10 to 11 which is happening on my second PC right now, 
> currently at 57%.  We'll see how it goes.

Success!

This is on a Dell Precision M6800, which originally failed because:
     - Not secure boot
     - Only TP 1.2
     - CPU

Normally I use MBR partitioning, so am very unfamiliar with GPT, but 
from within Windows booted from MBR I took a spare disk and partitioned 
it as GPT, and imaged it with my current W10Pro build (derived from my 
W7Ult build with all my chosen software, customisations, etc).  However 
I couldn't get it to boot.  After some fiddle-faddle getting to be able 
to boot via USB from within UEFI, I ran a start-up repair, but this 
failed to cure the problem.  After many and various attempts, all of 
which failed, I just installed Windows 10 from scratch, and then 
overwrote the result by imaging it again with my own build, and finally 
that worked, and I had my W10Pro image booting via secure boot off a GPT 
partitioned disk.

In that build, I set the registry hack given in the above page linked by 
the OP, Oliver, which was:
     HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup\MoSetup
       Name:  AllowUpgradesWithUnsupportedTPMOrCPU
       Type:  REG_DWORD
       Value: 1

Then I ran the upgrade from a standard USB stick with a standard MS 24H2 
iso  -  ie: AFAIAA, no Rufus customisations  -  and, so far, it seems 
fine  ...  Well, as fine as any modern installation of Windows will ever 
be!  Why o why do they have to change the taskbar and menus AGAIN!

My feelings about this remind me of a Monty Python sketch where (this 
from memory) John Cleese in a pinstripe suit, bowler hat, and carrying a 
briefcase and a furled umbrella and a folded copy of 'The Times' is 
walking down the street and is waylaid by a reporter who asks: "Sir, how 
would you solve the problem of the poor?", to which he replies: "First I 
think we should bomb their houses to get them running out into the 
street, and then we should mow them down with machine guns.  Of course, 
I understand that my views are not popular, particularly with the poor, 
but, really, I think it's the only solution!"  Likewise, I think that 
any Microsoft programmer who makes needless changes to the GUI for 
change's sake should be taken out and shot.  Of course, I understand 
that my views are not popular, particularly with Microsoft programmers, 
but, really, I think it's the only solution!

However, to mollify me somewhat, for today as my login screen Spotlight 
gives me a very pretty photo of a carpet of bluebells in a steepish 
clearing in a Dorset wood, luvverly:
     https://windows10spotlight.com/images/29120

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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