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Windows Subsystem for Android

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  Windows Subsystem for Android Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2024-09-29 00:24 +0100
    Re: Windows Subsystem for Android Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-09-29 23:21 +0000
      Re: Windows Subsystem for Android Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2024-10-01 00:08 +0100
        Re: Windows Subsystem for Android Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-10-01 00:18 +0000
          Re: Windows Subsystem for Android Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2024-10-02 00:25 +0100
            Re: Windows Subsystem for Android Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-10-02 01:25 +0000
              Re: Windows Subsystem for Android Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-10-02 01:38 +0000
              Re: Windows Subsystem for Android Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2024-10-03 13:45 +0100
                Re: Windows Subsystem for Android Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-10-03 20:30 +0000
                  Re: Windows Subsystem for Android Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2024-10-03 21:49 +0100
                  Re: Windows Subsystem for Android Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2024-10-03 22:00 +0100

#14234 — Windows Subsystem for Android

Is anyone here still using Windows Subsystem for Android?

I know Microsoft has removed it from the Microsoft Store and is ending 
support for it early in 2025.

However I was using it and found it useful so I was planning to carry on 
using it as long as I could.

But I have recently found that something had sabotaged it, making it so 
that icons for starting Android apps on the Windows desktop stopped 
working and also the icons for Android apps had disappeared from 
shell:appsfolder so that it was impossible to recreate the desktop icons.

I eventually found a way to make WSA set itself up again as if I had 
just reinstalled it (by resetting the Windows Subsystem for Android 
app). However this has started me again with a clean Android emulator 
and I have lost the saved state of an Android game I was playing. It's 
not a huge deal.

What I am wondering is if anyone else's WSA has been sabotaged like 
mine? Was it a Windows Update that did it? It could have been 
"Cumulative Update Preview for Windows 11 Version 23H2 for x64-based 
Systems (KB5043145)" that did it. However it could also have been a 
number of other things that are unique to me but seem unlikely causes.

-- 
Brian Gregory (in England).

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#14240

Brian Gregory wrote on Sun, 29 Sep 2024 00:24:20 +0100 :

> Is anyone here still using Windows Subsystem for Android?
> 
> I know Microsoft has removed it from the Microsoft Store and is ending 
> support for it early in 2025.
> 
> However I was using it and found it useful so I was planning to carry on 
> using it as long as I could.
> 
> But I have recently found that something had sabotaged it, making it so 
> that icons for starting Android apps on the Windows desktop stopped 
> working and also the icons for Android apps had disappeared from 
> shell:appsfolder so that it was impossible to recreate the desktop icons.
> 
> I eventually found a way to make WSA set itself up again as if I had 
> just reinstalled it (by resetting the Windows Subsystem for Android 
> app). However this has started me again with a clean Android emulator 
> and I have lost the saved state of an Android game I was playing. It's 
> not a huge deal.
> 
> What I am wondering is if anyone else's WSA has been sabotaged like 
> mine? Was it a Windows Update that did it? It could have been 
> "Cumulative Update Preview for Windows 11 Version 23H2 for x64-based 
> Systems (KB5043145)" that did it. However it could also have been a 
> number of other things that are unique to me but seem unlikely causes.

I was hoping someone else would answer this as I never used WSA but I can't
see what it does that I can't get some other way that works quite well.

For example, I don't use Android emulation, but I've tested the emulators
and they work, albeit with a little bit of setup that takes some effort.

Some of those free Android emulators on Windows are Google, Arm, Microsoft,
Genymotion, Andyroid, Bluestacks, Nox, Koplayer, Remixos & MeMu emulators.

In addition, there are free open source Android screen mirroring tools
(such as scrcpy/sndcpy or vysor) which connect Android to Windows so
seamlessly that both devices seamlessly share the same Windows clipboard,
mouse, screen, keyboard, & sound card along with Android taps on screen.

Every day, for years, I display my Android, over Wi-Fi or USB, onto my
screen at the height of the monitor (which is much larger than a phone).

I interact with the phone over Wi-Fi from Windows all day, every day, for
years, as long as the phone is in the house somewhere connected to the LAN.

Hence, I haven't found the need to even test Windows Subsystem for Android.
What does WSL do that emulation &/or mirroring doesn't already do for you?

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#14246

On 30/09/2024 00:21, Andrew wrote:
> Hence, I haven't found the need to even test Windows Subsystem for Android.
> What does WSL [you mean WSA] do that emulation &/or mirroring doesn't already do for you?

What WSA does is allow me to to run an Android app exactly as if it was 
a Windows app. Maybe some of the other emulators are close enough to 
that, I don't know because I've never tried any of the other emulators.

I started using WSA before Microsoft decided to abandon it, so it was, 
at that point, a reasonable choice.

Maybe one of the other emulators would actually be better because WSA 
doesn't include the Google Play store, only the Amazon app store, which 
is pretty useless almost everything except maybe games.

-- 
Brian Gregory (in England).

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#14247

Brian Gregory wrote on Tue, 1 Oct 2024 00:08:10 +0100 :

> On 30/09/2024 00:21, Andrew wrote:
>> Hence, I haven't found the need to even test Windows Subsystem for Android.
>> What does WSL [you mean WSA] do that emulation &/or mirroring doesn't already do for you?
> 
> What WSA does is allow me to to run an Android app exactly as if it was 
> a Windows app. Maybe some of the other emulators are close enough to 
> that, I don't know because I've never tried any of the other emulators.
> 
> I started using WSA before Microsoft decided to abandon it, so it was, 
> at that point, a reasonable choice.
> 
> Maybe one of the other emulators would actually be better because WSA 
> doesn't include the Google Play store, only the Amazon app store, which 
> is pretty useless almost everything except maybe games.

Thanks for explaining why you like WSA, which I can't disagree with, other
than to say emulation and mirroring are DIFFERENT but can result in the
same outcome - which is an Android app runs or displays on a Windows PC.

They're all different though, as emulation, for example, takes advantage of
the PC's CPU while mirroring only interacts with the real phone's CPU.

As for the Google Play Store, I load more software from the Google Play
Store repository than most people do (as I test software every day), and I
have long ago deleted the Google Play Store from my unrooted Android phone.

There's never a need for the Google Play Store since you can get the exact
apps from the exact repository (it's not separate - it _is_ the Google Play
Store Repository!) for free using open source Google Play Store clients.

I need to stress that it's _is_ the Google Play Store repository where
you're getting the apps as the only thing that changes is the client.

Much like if you took your browser to a photo web site to get photos, and
if you changed your browser from Chrome to Firefox, you'd still get the
exact same photos from the photo repository. Nothing changed but the
client.

Same thing here.

I'm not talking about APK repositories either as I'm talking about the
exact Google Play Store repository - so the app APKs are exactly those.

There *never* is a need for the Google Play Store app on Android.
People who use it either don't care about privacy or don't know about it.

Most people don't know any of this stuff, so it's hard to teach in text.
My suggestion is you ask for advice on the Android newsgroup also.

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#14249

On 01/10/2024 01:18, Andrew wrote:
> Thanks for explaining why you like WSA, which I can't disagree with, other
> than to say emulation and mirroring are DIFFERENT but can result in the
> same outcome - which is an Android app runs or displays on a Windows PC.

I know this, but I didn't want to insult you by asking why on earth you 
brought up mirroring at all.


> They're all different though, as emulation, for example, takes advantage of
> the PC's CPU while mirroring only interacts with the real phone's CPU.
> 
> As for the Google Play Store, I load more software from the Google Play
> Store repository than most people do (as I test software every day), and I
> have long ago deleted the Google Play Store from my unrooted Android phone.
> 
> There's never a need for the Google Play Store since you can get the exact
> apps from the exact repository (it's not separate - it _is_ the Google Play
> Store Repository!) for free using open source Google Play Store clients.
> 
> I need to stress that it's _is_ the Google Play Store repository where
> you're getting the apps as the only thing that changes is the client.
> 
> Much like if you took your browser to a photo web site to get photos, and
> if you changed your browser from Chrome to Firefox, you'd still get the
> exact same photos from the photo repository. Nothing changed but the
> client.
> 
> Same thing here.
> 
> I'm not talking about APK repositories either as I'm talking about the
> exact Google Play Store repository - so the app APKs are exactly those.
> 
> There *never* is a need for the Google Play Store app on Android.
> People who use it either don't care about privacy or don't know about it.

These clients can process payments too? Or do you steal your paid apps?


> Most people don't know any of this stuff, so it's hard to teach in text.
> My suggestion is you ask for advice on the Android newsgroup also.

So these fake Google Play Stores are on the Amazon web store? Seems 
unlikely.

It is possible to side-load in WSA but it's not as simple as it should be.

-- 
Brian Gregory (in England).

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#14252

Brian Gregory wrote on Wed, 2 Oct 2024 00:25:54 +0100 :

> On 01/10/2024 01:18, Andrew wrote:
>> Thanks for explaining why you like WSA, which I can't disagree with, other
>> than to say emulation and mirroring are DIFFERENT but can result in the
>> same outcome - which is an Android app runs or displays on a Windows PC.
> 
> I know this, but I didn't want to insult you by asking why on earth you 
> brought up mirroring at all.

I agree with you that WSA, Emulation, & Mirroring all interact with Android
from Windows, but in completely different ways (and using different CPUs).

I know mirroring the best, and it's how I interact with Android, which, if
I'm at my computer, the phone never leaves my pocket while I use the phone.

I know WSA the least, where I guess the Android code is running "native" on
the Windows CPU, where with emulation, it is also running on the Windows
CPU but there is the emulation layer in between to make things complicated.

>> There *never* is a need for the Google Play Store app on Android.
>> People who use it either don't care about privacy or don't know about it.
> 
> These clients can process payments too? Or do you steal your paid apps?

I'm intelligent enough to have more app functionality on my phone than ten
thousand other people can ever have, simply because I'm smart enough to
find free or open source replacement apps for what other people pay for.

For example, you have no capability to search for apps that have not only
no ads, but no in-app purchases, and which, oh, say, have a rating of 4.5
and which don't use GSF spyware, and which, oh, say, any number of other
filters, numbering into the hundreds, even down to using regex filters.

I do.

That's why I don't need to ever buy software - as I have the most accurate
and best search engine of Google Play Store apps on this planet - bar none.

Given I have more functionality on my phone than you ever will have, I have
never had a need to pay for any app - not even to just remove the ads.

I teach my grandkids that only people who are not smart pay for their apps.

Which is to say I don't even know if the open-source clients can pay for
the apps they find in the Google Play Store as I never needed to pay.

>> Most people don't know any of this stuff, so it's hard to teach in text.
>> My suggestion is you ask for advice on the Android newsgroup also.
> 
> So these fake Google Play Stores are on the Amazon web store? Seems 
> unlikely.

I don't know what that sentence means. This is all open source code.
Google knows all about it. Just like Google knows all about NewPipe.

And NewPipe/PipePipe is just about one of the finest apps on the planet.
And it's free.

> It is possible to side-load in WSA but it's not as simple as it should be.

Personally, I hate the word "side load" because it doesn't mean anything.

Every common consumer operating system (except iOS & Chrome) can load apps
from anywhere without creating a privacy-robbing login onto your device.

I do it all the time. 
It's just normal loading to me.

An example is if you want to load the Microsoft equivalent of PhotoShop
onto Windows, you would search for Paint.NET and then what would you do?

Would you pay for it?
Or would you get it for free?

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#14253

Andrew wrote on Wed, 2 Oct 2024 01:25:35 -0000 (UTC) :

> And NewPipe/PipePipe is just about one of the finest apps on the planet.
> And it's free.

There's a big lesson here - regarding WSL vs Mirroring vs Emulation.

Given we're talking Windows & Android working seamlessly together, notice
that there is no way on native Windows that anyone knows of to mimic the
YouTube client (other than a browser, of course - which is a vastly
substandard experience compared to a dedicated YouTube client).

How would the "normal" person use a YouTube client on Windows?
They can't.

What they'd do, if they're reasonably smart, is download the videos using
any number of yt-dlp/youtube-dl engines (e.g., ClipGrab, 3dyd, VLC, etc.).

But that's even worse of an overall experience than the crappy experience
of watching YouTube videos in a web browser - but what else can they do?

While I know mirroring the best of the three possibilities, with WSL, I
presume they can "directly" run the YouTube client (or, better yet, they
can run any number of YouTube clones, such as NewPipe, PipePipe, SkyTube,
SmartTube, YouTube Vanced, YouTube Revanced, Invidious, etc.

They might even be able to access the Windows filesystem from Android.

With emulation, they also can presumably run any of those YouTube clones on
Windows, using the Windows CPU to run them, and access the Windows filesys.

With mirroring, they do the same, only everything runs on Android at the
same time it's displayed on WIndows, where the Windows keyboard, clipboard,
mouse, sound card and even the Windows filesystem is accessible to Android
(if you know a little bit of basic Windows networking to make that work).

Me?

I prefer mirroring becaues it's so easy, but all three methods work
differently, which is the point of saying there are 3 ways to do it.

But, as far as I know, it can't be done on Windows any other way.
Can it?

Is there a YouTube client on Windows?

Because, if not, it's a perfect example of why WSL, emulation & mirroring
are needed - because with those three tools - you have your favorite
YouTube client on Windows (using the PC CPU, display, soundcard & filesys).

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#14271

On 02/10/2024 02:25, Andrew wrote:
> Personally, I hate the word "side load" because it doesn't mean anything.

Let me teach you something then. It means the process of installing 
software on a device from a source other than the device’s official app 
store.


> Every common consumer operating system (except iOS & Chrome) can load apps
> from anywhere without creating a privacy-robbing login onto your device.

It seems you're somewhat paranoid.


> I do it all the time. It's just normal loading to me.
> 
> An example is if you want to load the Microsoft equivalent of PhotoShop
> onto Windows, you would search for Paint.NET and then what would you do?
> 
> Would you pay for it?
> Or would you get it for free?

It depends on what would be cheapest while not stealing.

In the case of Paint.NET it appears to be free software I can download 
from github and install for free.

-- 
Brian Gregory (in England).

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#14275

Brian Gregory wrote on Thu, 3 Oct 2024 13:45:54 +0100 :

>> Personally, I hate the word "side load" because it doesn't mean anything.
> 
> Let me teach you something then. It means the process of installing 
> software on a device from a source other than the device�s official app 
> store.

While I get it that you're rude, how it telling me what everyone knows,
"teaching me something". Seriously. It's haughty of you to "teach me
something" simply because I noted that I load software from anywhere.

And you can't.
 
>> Every common consumer operating system (except iOS & Chrome) can load apps
>> from anywhere without creating a privacy-robbing login onto your device.
> 
> It seems you're somewhat paranoid.

Again, the fact I understand privacy and you don't, doesn't make me
paranoid. It just means you don't know anything about privacy.

Besides... 

How can I be "somewhat paranoid" when I load software from anywhere?

And you can't?

>> I do it all the time. It's just normal loading to me.
>> 
>> An example is if you want to load the Microsoft equivalent of PhotoShop
>> onto Windows, you would search for Paint.NET and then what would you do?
>> 
>> Would you pay for it?
>> Or would you get it for free?
> 
> It depends on what would be cheapest while not stealing.

Your rudeness and ignorance has transcended into claiming that all open
source apps are "stolen" property? What kind of brain do you own.

Let me teach YOU something.

A. You can buy OSMANd+ (for example) on the Google Play Store, or, 
B. You can install OSMAnd~ on F-Droid (which is open source software).

Same app.

The fact you call open source software "stealing" says more about your
ignorance than your ability to "teach me something", Mr. Brian Gregory.

> In the case of Paint.NET it appears to be free software I can download 
> from github and install for free.

I bet you that you can't.

I can, for sure.

But you can't.

Prove that you're not completely ignorant by showing the link to the exe.

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#14276

On 03/10/2024 21:30, Andrew wrote:
> The fact you call open source software "stealing" says more about your
> ignorance than your ability to "teach me something", Mr. Brian Gregory.

You said that side-load means nothing!!

I never said open source was stealing. You are delusional.


>> In the case of Paint.NET it appears to be free software I can download 
>> from github and install for free.
> 
> I bet you that you can't.

See you're the rude one.

You respond to my very narrow question and just assume that I will be 
fascinated by your mastery of lots of irrelevant stuff that's nothing to 
do with my question.

> 
> I can, for sure.
> 
> But you can't.

What a rude big headed sod you are.


> Prove that you're not completely ignorant by showing the link to the exe.

I'm can only guess which one you would choose, I would choose from this 
page:
	https://github.com/paintdotnet/release/releases
I would use:
	<https://github.com/paintdotnet/release/releases/download/v5.0.13/paint.net.5.0.13.install.x64.zip>
for Windows.

-- 
Brian Gregory (in England).

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#14277

On 03/10/2024 21:30, Andrew wrote some crap

WTF, I see you also cross posted your replies without asking me first.

You ignorant twat.

You're now in my killfile.

-- 
Brian Gregory (in England).

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