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Win Update not offering Win 11 upgrade

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  Win Update not offering Win 11 upgrade Jason <jason_warren@INVALID.ieee.org> - 2025-04-04 16:46 -0400
    Re: Win Update not offering Win 11 upgrade Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-04-04 22:43 -0400
      Re: Win Update not offering Win 11 upgrade jason_warren <jason_warren@ieee.org> - 2025-04-05 00:06 -0400
      Re: Win Update not offering Win 11 upgrade jason_warren <jason_warren@ieee.org> - 2025-04-05 00:29 -0400
        Re: Win Update not offering Win 11 upgrade Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-04-05 04:06 -0400
    Re: Win Update not offering Win 11 upgrade Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 22:01 +0100
      Re: Win Update not offering Win 11 upgrade Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-04-05 18:12 -0400
      Re: Win Update not offering Win 11 upgrade Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-04-06 12:47 +0000
        Re: Win Update not offering Win 11 upgrade Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-04-06 10:51 -0400
          Re: Win Update not offering Win 11 upgrade Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-04-06 15:18 +0000
            Re: Win Update not offering Win 11 upgrade Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-04-06 11:46 -0400
              Re: Win Update not offering Win 11 upgrade Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-04-07 12:30 +0000
                Re: Win Update not offering Win 11 upgrade Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-04-07 14:47 -0400
      Re: Win Update not offering Win 11 upgrade Jason <jason_warren@INVALID.ieee.org> - 2025-04-10 17:06 -0400

#183236 — Win Update not offering Win 11 upgrade

System is Win 10 Pro. When I open the Updates page it 
informs--always has--that some update options are 
controlled by "your" organization via Group Policy 
settings. Is this why the free Win 11 upgrade is not 
offered on the update page? 

I dug into the group policy settings a little and I think
I found those couple that are causing the message I see 
and changed them, but evidently there are more lurking 
that I cannot find because I continue to see the message 
when I open Update.

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#183245

On Fri, 4/4/2025 4:46 PM, Jason wrote:
> System is Win 10 Pro. When I open the Updates page it 
> informs--always has--that some update options are 
> controlled by "your" organization via Group Policy 
> settings. Is this why the free Win 11 upgrade is not 
> offered on the update page? 
> 
> I dug into the group policy settings a little and I think
> I found those couple that are causing the message I see 
> and changed them, but evidently there are more lurking 
> that I cannot find because I continue to see the message 
> when I open Update.
> 

The opinion here is, that AVast is doing this. Even when your
Group Policy is clean, AVast can be jiggling something in there.

https://www.tenforums.com/browsers-email/215350-mozilla-causing-chaos-managed-your-organization-2h22-19045-4842-a.html

   Paul

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#183248

In article <vsq5cm$12em2$1@dont-email.me>, 
nospam@needed.invalid says...
> 
> On Fri, 4/4/2025 4:46 PM, Jason wrote:
> > System is Win 10 Pro. When I open the Updates page it 
> > informs--always has--that some update options are 
> > controlled by "your" organization via Group Policy 
> > settings. Is this why the free Win 11 upgrade is not 
> > offered on the update page? 
> > 
> > I dug into the group policy settings a little and I think
> > I found those couple that are causing the message I see 
> > and changed them, but evidently there are more lurking 
> > that I cannot find because I continue to see the message 
> > when I open Update.
> > 
> 
> The opinion here is, that AVast is doing this. Even when your
> Group Policy is clean, AVast can be jiggling something in there.
> 
> https://www.tenforums.com/browsers-email/215350-mozilla-causing-chaos-managed-your-organization-2h22-19045-4842-a.html
> 
>    Paul

I look like you're right, Paul :-) I'll follow up tomorrow  
after I sleep.

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#183249

In article <vsq5cm$12em2$1@dont-email.me>, 
nospam@needed.invalid says...
> 
> On Fri, 4/4/2025 4:46 PM, Jason wrote:
> > System is Win 10 Pro. When I open the Updates page it 
> > informs--always has--that some update options are 
> > controlled by "your" organization via Group Policy 
> > settings. Is this why the free Win 11 upgrade is not 
> > offered on the update page? 
> > 
> > I dug into the group policy settings a little and I think
> > I found those couple that are causing the message I see 
> > and changed them, but evidently there are more lurking 
> > that I cannot find because I continue to see the message 
> > when I open Update.
> > 
> 
> The opinion here is, that AVast is doing this. Even when your
> Group Policy is clean, AVast can be jiggling something in there.
> 
> https://www.tenforums.com/browsers-email/215350-mozilla-causing-chaos-managed-your-organization-2h22-19045-4842-a.html
> 
>    Paul

Hmm well, alas. AVast is offerred as an extension but 
isn't installed. The hunt continues.

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#183253

On Sat, 4/5/2025 12:29 AM, jason_warren wrote:
> In article <vsq5cm$12em2$1@dont-email.me>, 
> nospam@needed.invalid says...
>>
>> On Fri, 4/4/2025 4:46 PM, Jason wrote:
>>> System is Win 10 Pro. When I open the Updates page it 
>>> informs--always has--that some update options are 
>>> controlled by "your" organization via Group Policy 
>>> settings. Is this why the free Win 11 upgrade is not 
>>> offered on the update page? 
>>>
>>> I dug into the group policy settings a little and I think
>>> I found those couple that are causing the message I see 
>>> and changed them, but evidently there are more lurking 
>>> that I cannot find because I continue to see the message 
>>> when I open Update.
>>>
>>
>> The opinion here is, that AVast is doing this. Even when your
>> Group Policy is clean, AVast can be jiggling something in there.
>>
>> https://www.tenforums.com/browsers-email/215350-mozilla-causing-chaos-managed-your-organization-2h22-19045-4842-a.html
>>
>>    Paul
> 
> Hmm well, alas. AVast is offerred as an extension but 
> isn't installed. The hunt continues.
> 

"Get the latest Update" should be switched on, in the Windows Update
settings, to "encourage" the W11 24H2 to come in.

This ("incontrol.exe") should show "11 24H2" if taking the limitation off
the release target. But as far as I know, these also correspond
to GPEdit policies. This is not exactly a totally independent control,
it's a convenience application that sets (or clears) three or four
registry settings.

   https://www.grc.com/incontrol.htm

Regarding the "type" of Registry settings, there have been
"wayward" settings in the past, that are no longer supposed
to have an effect, but can still be sitting in the Registry.
I do not suspect they are the cause of the problem, but
want to mention this issue for the sake of completeness.
There were things I have tried to set in the past, that
no longer did anything, and they are similar to the InControl ones.

The arrival of W11 24H2 is also gated by what are called "blockers".
For example, some particular audio device is not compatible or has
some kind of issue with 24H2, and prevents 24H2 from installing.
But those don't show "... your organization" as a label -- they
are silent blockers and there is no status readout whatsoever.

   Paul

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#183263

On 04/04/2025 21:46, Jason wrote:
> System is Win 10 Pro. When I open the Updates page it
> informs--always has--that some update options are
> controlled by "your" organization via Group Policy
> settings. Is this why the free Win 11 upgrade is not
> offered on the update page?
> 
> I dug into the group policy settings a little and I think
> I found those couple that are causing the message I see
> and changed them, but evidently there are more lurking
> that I cannot find because I continue to see the message
> when I open Update.
> 
Are you sure that your hardware is compatible with W11? Mine apparently 
isn't!

-- 
Cheers,
Roger

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#183264

On Sat, 4/5/2025 5:01 PM, Roger Mills wrote:
> On 04/04/2025 21:46, Jason wrote:
>> System is Win 10 Pro. When I open the Updates page it
>> informs--always has--that some update options are
>> controlled by "your" organization via Group Policy
>> settings. Is this why the free Win 11 upgrade is not
>> offered on the update page?
>>
>> I dug into the group policy settings a little and I think
>> I found those couple that are causing the message I see
>> and changed them, but evidently there are more lurking
>> that I cannot find because I continue to see the message
>> when I open Update.
>>
> Are you sure that your hardware is compatible with W11? Mine apparently isn't!
> 

Did the PC Health Check application give any details ?

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/how-to-use-the-pc-health-check-app-9c8abd9b-03ba-4e67-81ef-36f37caa7844

On the Optiplex 780 with E8400 Core2 Duo, it tells me
the Population Count instruction is missing. And trying
to jam in Windows 11 manually from a DVD, reports the same
thing and the installation stops. I had the 780 out on
the bench a couple weeks ago, and found a text file the
Win11 installation attempt might have left behind.

   Paul

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#183279

Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/04/2025 21:46, Jason wrote:
> > System is Win 10 Pro. When I open the Updates page it
> > informs--always has--that some update options are
> > controlled by "your" organization via Group Policy
> > settings. Is this why the free Win 11 upgrade is not
> > offered on the update page?
> > 
> > I dug into the group policy settings a little and I think
> > I found those couple that are causing the message I see
> > and changed them, but evidently there are more lurking
> > that I cannot find because I continue to see the message
> > when I open Update.
> > 
> Are you sure that your hardware is compatible with W11? Mine apparently 
> isn't!

  If that's the case, Windows Update will say so. In Jason's case, it
apparently doesn't say so, but also doesn't offer the Windows 11
upgrade.

  On my wife's, Windows 11 incompatible, Windows 10 system, Windows
Update says ((very liberally) translated from Dutch):

"Prepare for Windows 11
 If you want to check if Windows 11
 can be used on this PC, you can
 check the hardware requirements or
 go to the website of the manufacturer
 of your PC"

  And there's a 'Check hardware requirements' link.

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#183280

On Sun, 4/6/2025 8:47 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 04/04/2025 21:46, Jason wrote:
>>> System is Win 10 Pro. When I open the Updates page it
>>> informs--always has--that some update options are
>>> controlled by "your" organization via Group Policy
>>> settings. Is this why the free Win 11 upgrade is not
>>> offered on the update page?
>>>
>>> I dug into the group policy settings a little and I think
>>> I found those couple that are causing the message I see
>>> and changed them, but evidently there are more lurking
>>> that I cannot find because I continue to see the message
>>> when I open Update.
>>>
>> Are you sure that your hardware is compatible with W11? Mine apparently 
>> isn't!
> 
>   If that's the case, Windows Update will say so. In Jason's case, it
> apparently doesn't say so, but also doesn't offer the Windows 11
> upgrade.
> 
>   On my wife's, Windows 11 incompatible, Windows 10 system, Windows
> Update says ((very liberally) translated from Dutch):
> 
> "Prepare for Windows 11
>  If you want to check if Windows 11
>  can be used on this PC, you can
>  check the hardware requirements or
>  go to the website of the manufacturer
>  of your PC"
> 
>   And there's a 'Check hardware requirements' link.
> 

The PC Health App can spell it out a bit more than the Windows Update
box does. This will only be in Win10, if you installed it

   C:\Program Files\PCHealthCheck\PCHealthCheck.exe    866,224 bytes  (2022)

But generally speaking, they didn't make much of an effort to
spell things out.

POPCNT got added to this one ("coreinfo.exe"), but I don't see an MBEC.

   https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/coreinfo

For MBEC (a dependency but not a prerequisite), the Intel entry for
your processor will only have an entry, if the device
has the feature. They don't like to list MBEC and No in the same
sentence.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/236773/intel-core-i9-processor-14900k-36m-cache-up-to-6-00-ghz/specifications.html

   Mode-based Execute Control (MBEC)      Yes

Microsoft also has a "list of processors" but I don't think any
installer consults such a list. It's more likely to be "by measurement".
When W10/W11 boots, features are turned off "by measurement",
to ensure it boots. The claimed exception is POPCNT, where if you
don't have it for an OS that requires it, the OS crashes. I still haven't
tested that, but I do not doubt the prediction. I don't even think
they execute the POPCNT -- all they have to do, is use a privileged
instruction to check processor features, and if the processor
does not have SSE 4.2, then you don't have the flavor of POPCNT
they really want (SIMD version). I figured this was for some sort of
crude neural network code or something. The requirement to me, seems
rather pointless. It can't perform well enough to do anything,
and could be replaced with a macro instead (with a speed penalty).

*******

If you are running Win10 32-bit, there is no in-place upgrade strategy
for you. win11 is 64-bit only. That's why the PCHealth above is in
the 64-bit Program Files :-)

I would not expect anyone in the audience, to be wedged in such a corner :-)
I don't even know what it says, when you present that case to them.
I probably have W10 32-bit VMs, but those wouldn't work right for
an OS offer. It would have to be tested physically.

   Paul

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#183281

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 4/6/2025 8:47 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 04/04/2025 21:46, Jason wrote:
> >>> System is Win 10 Pro. When I open the Updates page it
> >>> informs--always has--that some update options are
> >>> controlled by "your" organization via Group Policy
> >>> settings. Is this why the free Win 11 upgrade is not
> >>> offered on the update page?
> >>>
> >>> I dug into the group policy settings a little and I think
> >>> I found those couple that are causing the message I see
> >>> and changed them, but evidently there are more lurking
> >>> that I cannot find because I continue to see the message
> >>> when I open Update.
> >>>
> >> Are you sure that your hardware is compatible with W11? Mine apparently 
> >> isn't!
> > 
> >   If that's the case, Windows Update will say so. In Jason's case, it
> > apparently doesn't say so, but also doesn't offer the Windows 11
> > upgrade.
> > 
> >   On my wife's, Windows 11 incompatible, Windows 10 system, Windows
> > Update says ((very liberally) translated from Dutch):
> > 
> > "Prepare for Windows 11
> >  If you want to check if Windows 11
> >  can be used on this PC, you can
> >  check the hardware requirements or
> >  go to the website of the manufacturer
> >  of your PC"
> > 
> >   And there's a 'Check hardware requirements' link.
> 
> The PC Health App can spell it out a bit more than the Windows Update
> box does. This will only be in Win10, if you installed it
> 
>    C:\Program Files\PCHealthCheck\PCHealthCheck.exe    866,224 bytes  (2022)

  Yes, that's what I pointed to: The 'Check hardware requirements' link
brings you to a webpage, which, as one of the first things, gives you a
link to download the install package for PCHealthCheck.exe.

> But generally speaking, they didn't make much of an effort to
> spell things out.

  Indeed they don't. PCHealthCheck says my wife's AMD processor is not
supported, but not why not (it has enough cores). But as it also has no
TPM and is rather 'old' (May 2014) and 'slow', I don't worry about it.
New system (probably a 'Mini-PC') is planned for the end of the year.

[...]

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#183283

On Sun, 4/6/2025 11:18 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sun, 4/6/2025 8:47 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 04/04/2025 21:46, Jason wrote:
>>>>> System is Win 10 Pro. When I open the Updates page it
>>>>> informs--always has--that some update options are
>>>>> controlled by "your" organization via Group Policy
>>>>> settings. Is this why the free Win 11 upgrade is not
>>>>> offered on the update page?
>>>>>
>>>>> I dug into the group policy settings a little and I think
>>>>> I found those couple that are causing the message I see
>>>>> and changed them, but evidently there are more lurking
>>>>> that I cannot find because I continue to see the message
>>>>> when I open Update.
>>>>>
>>>> Are you sure that your hardware is compatible with W11? Mine apparently 
>>>> isn't!
>>>
>>>   If that's the case, Windows Update will say so. In Jason's case, it
>>> apparently doesn't say so, but also doesn't offer the Windows 11
>>> upgrade.
>>>
>>>   On my wife's, Windows 11 incompatible, Windows 10 system, Windows
>>> Update says ((very liberally) translated from Dutch):
>>>
>>> "Prepare for Windows 11
>>>  If you want to check if Windows 11
>>>  can be used on this PC, you can
>>>  check the hardware requirements or
>>>  go to the website of the manufacturer
>>>  of your PC"
>>>
>>>   And there's a 'Check hardware requirements' link.
>>
>> The PC Health App can spell it out a bit more than the Windows Update
>> box does. This will only be in Win10, if you installed it
>>
>>    C:\Program Files\PCHealthCheck\PCHealthCheck.exe    866,224 bytes  (2022)
> 
>   Yes, that's what I pointed to: The 'Check hardware requirements' link
> brings you to a webpage, which, as one of the first things, gives you a
> link to download the install package for PCHealthCheck.exe.
> 
>> But generally speaking, they didn't make much of an effort to
>> spell things out.
> 
>   Indeed they don't. PCHealthCheck says my wife's AMD processor is not
> supported, but not why not (it has enough cores). But as it also has no
> TPM and is rather 'old' (May 2014) and 'slow', I don't worry about it.
> New system (probably a 'Mini-PC') is planned for the end of the year.
> 
> [...]
> 

   https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors

They look mostly like Zen products.

The ones at the beginning have weird names, so I looked one up and it is a Zen.

   https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/athlon-gold-3150g.c2330

  Paul

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#183323

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 4/6/2025 11:18 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
[...]
> >> The PC Health App can spell it out a bit more than the Windows Update
> >> box does. This will only be in Win10, if you installed it
> >>
> >>    C:\Program Files\PCHealthCheck\PCHealthCheck.exe    866,224 bytes  (2022)
> > 
> >   Yes, that's what I pointed to: The 'Check hardware requirements' link
> > brings you to a webpage, which, as one of the first things, gives you a
> > link to download the install package for PCHealthCheck.exe.
> > 
> >> But generally speaking, they didn't make much of an effort to
> >> spell things out.
> > 
> >   Indeed they don't. PCHealthCheck says my wife's AMD processor is not
> > supported, but not why not (it has enough cores). But as it also has no
> > TPM and is rather 'old' (May 2014) and 'slow', I don't worry about it.
> > New system (probably a 'Mini-PC') is planned for the end of the year.
> > 
> > [...]
> 
>    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors

  System Information says:

AMD A4-5000 APU with Radeon(TM) HD Graphics, 1500 MHz, 4 core('s)

and PCHealthCheck says the same:

AMD A4-5000 APU with Radeon(TM) HD Graphics

and indeed no 'A4' or '5000' in the windows-11-supported-amd-processors
list.

> They look mostly like Zen products.
> 
> The ones at the beginning have weird names, so I looked one up and it
> is a Zen.
> 
>    https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/athlon-gold-3150g.c2330

  Thanks for that reference/site. This is the page for my wife's AMD
A4-5000

<https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/a4-5000.c1710>

  It's a 2013 CPU, which matches with the purchase date of May 2014.

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#183332

On Mon, 4/7/2025 8:30 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sun, 4/6/2025 11:18 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> [...]
>>>> The PC Health App can spell it out a bit more than the Windows Update
>>>> box does. This will only be in Win10, if you installed it
>>>>
>>>>    C:\Program Files\PCHealthCheck\PCHealthCheck.exe    866,224 bytes  (2022)
>>>
>>>   Yes, that's what I pointed to: The 'Check hardware requirements' link
>>> brings you to a webpage, which, as one of the first things, gives you a
>>> link to download the install package for PCHealthCheck.exe.
>>>
>>>> But generally speaking, they didn't make much of an effort to
>>>> spell things out.
>>>
>>>   Indeed they don't. PCHealthCheck says my wife's AMD processor is not
>>> supported, but not why not (it has enough cores). But as it also has no
>>> TPM and is rather 'old' (May 2014) and 'slow', I don't worry about it.
>>> New system (probably a 'Mini-PC') is planned for the end of the year.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>
>>    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors
> 
>   System Information says:
> 
> AMD A4-5000 APU with Radeon(TM) HD Graphics, 1500 MHz, 4 core('s)
> 
> and PCHealthCheck says the same:
> 
> AMD A4-5000 APU with Radeon(TM) HD Graphics
> 
> and indeed no 'A4' or '5000' in the windows-11-supported-amd-processors
> list.
> 
>> They look mostly like Zen products.
>>
>> The ones at the beginning have weird names, so I looked one up and it
>> is a Zen.
>>
>>    https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/athlon-gold-3150g.c2330
> 
>   Thanks for that reference/site. This is the page for my wife's AMD
> A4-5000
> 
> <https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/a4-5000.c1710>
> 
>   It's a 2013 CPU, which matches with the purchase date of May 2014.
> 

OK, it's a Kabini. It has SSE 4.2 and would have POPCNT (W11 won't crash).
The TPM situation would be about as dire as on my Test Machine. Maybe a
Rufus install would work. I have W11 on the Test Machine, but it might not
last to the end of service (some year, an upgrade install might fail to work...).

2011  K10          Bobcat
2012  Piledriver
2013               Jaguar <=== Kabini
2014  Steamroller  Puma
2015  Excavator    Puma+
2017  Zen          Excavator+
                   Zen
2020  Zen 2
2021  Zen 3
2022  Zen 4        Zen+, Zen2+

   Paul

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#183515

In article <m5dk1kFahijU1@mid.individual.net>, 
mills37.fslife@gmail.com says...
> 

> Are you sure that your hardware is compatible with W11? Mine apparently 
> isn't!

It is compatible. 

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