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Groups > alt.comp.os.windows-10 > #181812 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Marion <marion@facts.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-01-31 17:48 +0000 |
| Last post | 2025-02-02 22:54 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 166 — 15 participants |
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Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-01-31 17:48 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-31 19:09 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-01-31 19:26 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-01-31 21:18 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-31 23:19 +0100
The "label" command (Was: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows &) Android editors gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-01-31 22:24 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-31 22:25 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-01-31 22:38 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-31 23:39 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-01-31 22:48 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Quincy the fifth <quincythefifth@telekom.net> - 2025-02-01 00:22 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-01 06:03 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-02-01 10:15 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-01 18:45 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-01 18:51 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-04-27 00:07 +1000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-04-26 21:37 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-04-27 20:23 +1000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-04-27 14:15 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-01 14:55 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-01 19:16 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-01 20:54 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-02 03:21 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-02 14:43 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-03 00:01 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-03 01:59 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-03 03:06 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-03 13:28 +0100
What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-02-03 13:09 +0000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-03 14:34 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2025-02-03 10:47 -0500
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-04-27 20:30 +1000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-02-03 15:15 -0500
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-05 10:25 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-02-05 09:32 -0500
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-05 20:46 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-04-27 20:39 +1000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-03 15:42 -0500
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-06 22:40 +0000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-07 21:45 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-04 15:41 +0000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-05 10:18 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-06 00:05 +0000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-05 20:04 -0500
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-06 20:17 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-06 21:02 +0000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-07 21:47 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-08 03:28 +0000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-08 10:18 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-08 23:35 +0000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-10 08:47 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-10 10:55 +0000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-11 01:00 +0000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-13 19:59 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-13 22:15 +0000
[OT] Storage technology "back then" (was Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? [...]) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-02-14 02:10 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-18 11:56 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-18 21:55 +0000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-21 09:12 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-21 23:35 +0000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-25 18:27 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-25 18:25 +0000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-26 08:53 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-02-26 13:10 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-26 15:02 +0000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-25 20:28 +0000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-26 08:54 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-26 08:49 +0100
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-21 14:12 +0000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-04-27 20:27 +1000
Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-04-27 10:29 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-02 04:16 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-02 05:40 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-02 06:05 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-02 21:34 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-03 00:01 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-03 09:42 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-06 20:54 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-08 04:22 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-02 15:07 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-02 23:42 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-03 02:21 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-03 03:05 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-03 09:59 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-03 03:01 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-03 19:12 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-05 10:30 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-05 11:31 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-05 14:27 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-05 14:35 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-06 20:21 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-06 20:57 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-06 23:58 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-07 05:57 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-07 10:30 +0100
Editing binary data with editors - or is there no difference of text and binary? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-02-07 10:57 +0100
Re: Editing binary data with editors - or is there no difference of text and binary? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-07 11:44 +0100
Re: Editing binary data with editors - or is there no difference of text and binary? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-02-07 14:39 +0100
Re: Editing binary data with editors - or is there no difference of text and binary? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-07 19:39 +0100
Re: Editing binary data with editors - or is there no difference of text and binary? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-08 03:26 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-02-05 18:12 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-05 23:14 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-06 20:22 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-06 20:57 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2025-02-07 21:50 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-08 03:27 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-02 03:21 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-02 15:07 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-02 03:20 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-01 05:40 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-02-01 16:34 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-02-01 16:29 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-01 18:10 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-02-02 15:44 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-03 10:40 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-03 15:14 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-04 10:01 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-04 13:22 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-04 19:51 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-04 23:12 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-02-02 15:24 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-02 15:50 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-02-02 16:04 +0100
[meta] posting mistake Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-02-02 16:26 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-02 16:29 +0000
ext4 on Android (Was: blah, blah, blah...) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-02-02 16:37 +0000
Re: ext4 on Android (Was: blah, blah, blah...) Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2025-02-03 09:14 +0000
ext4 on Android (Was: blah, blah, blah...) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-03 15:16 +0100
Re: ext4 on Android (Was: blah, blah, blah...) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-03 21:59 +0000
Re: ext4 on Android Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-04 10:23 +0000
Re: ext4 on Android (Was: blah, blah, blah...) Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-04 22:48 +0000
Re: ext4 on Android (Was: blah, blah, blah...) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-25 23:16 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-03 21:57 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-02-03 19:00 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-03 22:01 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-02-05 18:50 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-05 14:26 -0500
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-06 00:16 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-02-06 20:50 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-03 19:58 -0500
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-04 01:15 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-04 00:24 -0500
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-04 21:40 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-02-04 22:11 +0000
External media file systems (was Re: ...) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-02-05 02:24 +0100
Re: External media file systems (was Re: ...) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-04 22:06 -0500
Re: External media file systems (was Re: ...) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-05 04:41 +0000
Re: External media file systems (was Re: ...) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-05 04:43 +0000
Re: External media file systems (was Re: ...) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-05 02:10 -0500
Re: External media file systems (was Re: ...) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-02-05 17:40 +0100
Re: External media file systems (was Re: ...) candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-02-05 18:50 +0000
Re: External media file systems (was Re: ...) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-06 00:11 +0000
Re: External media file systems (was Re: ...) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-05 20:59 -0500
Re: External media file systems (was Re: ...) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-06 03:04 +0000
Re: External media file systems (was Re: ...) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-05 22:48 -0500
Re: External media file systems (was Re: ...) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-06 21:00 +0000
Re: External media file systems (was Re: ...) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-06 16:20 -0500
Re: External media file systems (was Re: ...) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-06 22:42 +0000
Re: External media file systems (was Re: ...) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-07 00:44 -0500
Re: External media file systems (was Re: ...) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-07 06:00 +0000
Re: External media file systems (was Re: ...) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-02-05 17:38 +0100
Re: External media file systems (was Re: ...) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-06 00:06 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-03 21:56 +0000
A little bit of discussion between Janis and me (Was: Stupid suggestion(s) for "portable" "memory" using Windows & Android "editors") gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-02-02 14:53 +0000
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-01 20:59 +0100
Re: Clever helpful suggestion for portable memory using Windows & Android editors Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-02 22:54 +0000
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| From | Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-25 18:27 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors |
| Message-ID | <m26cs6Fn5c8U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #182464 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-22 00:35: > On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:12:09 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: > >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-18 22:55: >> >>> On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 11:56:41 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: >> [...] >>>> And core memory is not *intended* to be non volatile storage ... >>> >>> It did work that way, you know. By design. >> >> Which is irrelevant for what I said. > > You said it wasn’t intended to be non-volatile. But it was. No, it wasn't. This was just the side-effect of using magnetic cores. If any other technology would have been as cheap and fast as core memory, it would have been used. As soon as *non-volatile* integrated circuits became cheaper, they replaced core memory within a few years, because the proporty "non volatile" was not the important thing. Instead having a lot of cheap RAM was much more important - also when core memory was invented. -- Arno Welzel https://arnowelzel.de
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| From | Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-25 18:25 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors |
| Message-ID | <vpl5ed.sug.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #182544 |
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-22 00:35: > > > On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:12:09 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: > > > >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-18 22:55: > >> > >>> On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 11:56:41 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: > >> [...] > >>>> And core memory is not *intended* to be non volatile storage ... > >>> > >>> It did work that way, you know. By design. > >> > >> Which is irrelevant for what I said. > > > > You said it wasn?t intended to be non-volatile. But it was. > > No, it wasn't. This was just the side-effect of using magnetic cores. Sorry, but that's nonsense. I gave some examples from that era, where non-volatility was not a 'side-effect', but an essential property without which the system(s) couldn't function,, especially in the abscence of on-line mass-storage. > If > any other technology would have been as cheap and fast as core memory, > it would have been used. That's just your opinion, not a fact. Anyway neither of 'us' can prove that either way. > As soon as *non-volatile* integrated circuits became cheaper, they > replaced core memory within a few years, because the proporty "non > volatile" was not the important thing. Instead having a lot of cheap RAM > was much more important - also when core memory was invented. I think you mean "*volatile* integrated circuits", otherwise the rest of your comments do not make any sense. And indeed, after the second generation HP computers with core memory (2100), the third generation (21MX) had volatile RAM with ICs.
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| From | Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-26 08:53 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors |
| Message-ID | <m27vjfFud22U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #182545 |
Frank Slootweg, 2025-02-25 19:25: > Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote: >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-22 00:35: >> >>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:12:09 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: >>> >>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-18 22:55: >>>> >>>>> On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 11:56:41 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: >>>> [...] >>>>>> And core memory is not *intended* to be non volatile storage ... >>>>> >>>>> It did work that way, you know. By design. >>>> >>>> Which is irrelevant for what I said. >>> >>> You said it wasn?t intended to be non-volatile. But it was. >> >> No, it wasn't. This was just the side-effect of using magnetic cores. > > Sorry, but that's nonsense. I gave some examples from that era, where > non-volatility was not a 'side-effect', but an essential property > without which the system(s) couldn't function,, especially in the > abscence of on-line mass-storage. If a property exists in a technology, it is used - of course. But this does not mean, that a technology was especially designed for this use case. >> As soon as *non-volatile* integrated circuits became cheaper, they >> replaced core memory within a few years, because the proporty "non >> volatile" was not the important thing. Instead having a lot of cheap RAM >> was much more important - also when core memory was invented. > > I think you mean "*volatile* integrated circuits", otherwise the rest > of your comments do not make any sense. And indeed, after the second > generation HP computers with core memory (2100), the third generation > (21MX) had volatile RAM with ICs. Exactly - *volatile* memory chips replaced core memory when they got available and cheaper than core memory, because implementing RAM was the main use case for core memory and not the fact, that it is non-volatile. Even machines with core memory still had some kind of external storage (punched tape, magnetic tape, drum memory etc.) because you still need some kind of permanent storage even with core memory. -- Arno Welzel https://arnowelzel.de
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| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-26 13:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors |
| Message-ID | <vpn0ci$2i7ne$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #182563 |
On 26.02.2025 08:53, Arno Welzel wrote: >> [...] > [...] > > Even machines with core memory still had some kind of external storage > (punched tape, magnetic tape, drum memory etc.) because you still need > some kind of permanent storage even with core memory. Yes, sort of. - It's not that simple, though... External permanent storage was also used because of its "mass storage" property. Consider for example large amounts of data to be processed using tapes; some algorithms like 'merge-sort' still reflect that. And drums were (AFAICT) used as (compared to hard disks) fast-access memory not as permanent storage; their capacity was not that large but they had a lot of fixed heads to read/write data in parallel. As mentioned elsethread; the storage properties define their possible uses, and there are a lot more properties than permanent/volatile. Janis
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| From | Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-26 15:02 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors |
| Message-ID | <vpndtq.egk.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #182563 |
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote: > Frank Slootweg, 2025-02-25 19:25: > > > Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote: > >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-22 00:35: > >> > >>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:12:09 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: > >>> > >>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-18 22:55: > >>>> > >>>>> On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 11:56:41 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: > >>>> [...] > >>>>>> And core memory is not *intended* to be non volatile storage ... > >>>>> > >>>>> It did work that way, you know. By design. > >>>> > >>>> Which is irrelevant for what I said. > >>> > >>> You said it wasn?t intended to be non-volatile. But it was. > >> > >> No, it wasn't. This was just the side-effect of using magnetic cores. > > > > Sorry, but that's nonsense. I gave some examples from that era, where > > non-volatility was not a 'side-effect', but an essential property > > without which the system(s) couldn't function,, especially in the > > abscence of on-line mass-storage. > > If a property exists in a technology, it is used - of course. But this > does not mean, that a technology was especially designed for this use case. Nor does it mean it was *not* designed for this use case. As I mentioned, and you conventienly snipped: "That's just your opinion, not a fact. Anyway neither of 'us' can prove that either way." > >> As soon as *non-volatile* integrated circuits became cheaper, they > >> replaced core memory within a few years, because the proporty "non > >> volatile" was not the important thing. Instead having a lot of cheap RAM > >> was much more important - also when core memory was invented. > > > > I think you mean "*volatile* integrated circuits", otherwise the rest > > of your comments do not make any sense. And indeed, after the second > > generation HP computers with core memory (2100), the third generation > > (21MX) had volatile RAM with ICs. > > Exactly - *volatile* memory chips replaced core memory when they got > available and cheaper than core memory, because implementing RAM was the > main use case for core memory and not the fact, that it is non-volatile. Disagree. I that same period, less expensive mass storage became available, so volatile RAM was less of a problem. N.B. When the first HP computer (2116) came out, there was *no* mass storage device available. That (2757A) came two years later. The 21MX (volatile RAM) came eight years after the 2116 (core memory). > Even machines with core memory still had some kind of external storage > (punched tape, magnetic tape, drum memory etc.) because you still need > some kind of permanent storage even with core memory. Yes, but as I explained, they only needed that external storage *once* to load and for the rest only to save/load the program, not the OS. Mag tape, drum memory, etc. are seperate cases, they are not just to load the OS and save/load programs, but also for mass storage. The systems I mentioned, only used paper tape and magnetic cards. Anyway. let's drop this silly (non-)discussion. As I said, it's just a matter of opinion and we're not going to agree.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-25 20:28 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors |
| Message-ID | <vpl95m$25q46$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #182544 |
On Tue, 25 Feb 2025 18:27:39 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-22 00:35: > >> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:12:09 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: >> >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-18 22:55: >>> >>>> On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 11:56:41 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: >>> [...] >>>>> And core memory is not *intended* to be non volatile storage ... >>>> >>>> It did work that way, you know. By design. >>> >>> Which is irrelevant for what I said. >> >> You said it wasn’t intended to be non-volatile. But it was. > > No, it wasn't. It was non-volatile. That is a matter of indisputable fact. > As soon as *non-volatile* integrated circuits became cheaper, they > replaced core memory within a few years ... Why wait for *non-volatile* ones? If the non-volatility was not important, the replacement would have happened sooner.
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| From | Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-26 08:54 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors |
| Message-ID | <m27vkoFud22U3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #182550 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-25 21:28: > On Tue, 25 Feb 2025 18:27:39 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: > >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-22 00:35: >> >>> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:12:09 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: >>> >>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-18 22:55: >>>> >>>>> On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 11:56:41 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: >>>> [...] >>>>>> And core memory is not *intended* to be non volatile storage ... >>>>> >>>>> It did work that way, you know. By design. >>>> >>>> Which is irrelevant for what I said. >>> >>> You said it wasn’t intended to be non-volatile. But it was. >> >> No, it wasn't. > > It was non-volatile. That is a matter of indisputable fact. > >> As soon as *non-volatile* integrated circuits became cheaper, they >> replaced core memory within a few years ... > > Why wait for *non-volatile* ones? If the non-volatility was not important, > the replacement would have happened sooner. No, *volatile* of course. I was just not checking my text before sending it. -- Arno Welzel https://arnowelzel.de
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| From | Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-26 08:49 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors |
| Message-ID | <m27vbdFud22U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #182544 |
Arno Welzel, 2025-02-25 18:27: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-22 00:35: > >> On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:12:09 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: >> >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-18 22:55: >>> >>>> On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 11:56:41 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: >>> [...] >>>>> And core memory is not *intended* to be non volatile storage ... >>>> >>>> It did work that way, you know. By design. >>> >>> Which is irrelevant for what I said. >> >> You said it wasn’t intended to be non-volatile. But it was. > > No, it wasn't. This was just the side-effect of using magnetic cores. If > any other technology would have been as cheap and fast as core memory, > it would have been used. > > As soon as *non-volatile* integrated circuits became cheaper, they ... *volatile* of course ... > replaced core memory within a few years, because the proporty "non > volatile" was not the important thing. Instead having a lot of cheap RAM > was much more important - also when core memory was invented. -- Arno Welzel https://arnowelzel.de
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| From | Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-21 14:12 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors |
| Message-ID | <vpa557.p90.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #182405 |
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-13 23:15: > > > On Thu, 13 Feb 2025 19:59:35 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: > > > >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-11 02:00: > >> > >>> On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 08:47:39 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote: > >>> > >>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 2025-02-09 00:35: > >>>> > >>>>> So you never used core memory. > >>>> > >>>> Correct. But core memory is not intended as *persistent* memory, even > >>>> when it can be used this way. > >>> > >>> It was indeed regularly used that way. Consider that, on machines from > >>> the core memory era ... > >> > >> Anyway - the memory was "RAM" and not "mass storage". > > > > Neither term was used back then. I certainly didn?t use them in this > > context. > > It does not matter, if you use that term. I talk about the real world > usage. And core memory is not *intended* to be non volatile storage, > even if it is technically possible to keep information without powering > the memory. Well, we (HP) sold computers (2116/2115/2114) with BASIC, were the core memory kept the 'OS', the interpreter and the user's program(s). They did not have mass storage, only paper tape for the intitial load of OS/interpreter and to save/load programs. Same for the 9100A/B 'calculator's of the time. Program and data in core memory. Yes, program and data could be loaded from and saved to creditcard-sized magnetic cards, but core memory was definitely intended to be non volatile storage.
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| From | Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 20:27 +1000 |
| Subject | Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors |
| Message-ID | <vul0r0$jn41$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #181924 |
On 4/02/2025 12:09 am, Kenny McCormack wrote: > In article <m0br40Ff8v9U2@mid.individual.net>, Arno Welzel > <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote: ... >>> I don't call an SSD a flash media. >> >> Why not? SSD *is* flash storage. Just because there is a >> controller which takes care of wear leveling, the storage >> technology itself is not different to that of SD cards. > > Chill out, man. > > People often use terminology in idiosyncratic ways. .... which CAN lead to mis-understandings!! > That doesn't make them wrong. I understand Carlo's frame of > reference, and I accept it. You should do likewise. > > Just for one example: In some circles, unless it is a 4 footed > mammal, it is not an "animal". > > I assume Carlo's use of terminology is similar. > Do you recall the saying about what could happen when one "assume"?? -- Daniel70
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| From | gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 10:29 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: What is an animal or an SSD drive? (Was: blah, blah, blah) Android editors |
| Message-ID | <vul0uj$2cd1f$1@news.xmission.com> |
| In reply to | #184097 |
In article <vul0r0$jn41$2@dont-email.me>, Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote: ... >> Chill out, man. >> >> People often use terminology in idiosyncratic ways. > >.... which CAN lead to mis-understandings!! Most (if not all) of the so-called "misunderstandings" are intentional. I.e., intentional strawmanning. -- Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz claims that only ugly women want abortions, which they will never need since no one will impregnate them.
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| From | Marion <marion@facts.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-02 04:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vnmrj0$2jq6$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> |
| In reply to | #181869 |
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:54:19 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote : >> The editor has no clue that you just swapped out the sd card to a new one! >> But, of course, the editor has to prior be aware of storage on the sd card. > > I don't use editors on phone nor tablet. Hi Carlos, If you don't ever use editors on a mobile device, then that's unusual. Most people experience using editors on a mobile device, even if you don't. But I find it hard to believe you don't use editors on a mobile device. You don't use offline maps for example? Really? Seriously? How do you navigate using your phone when there is no Internet signal? Offline map editors are just one type of editor on an Android phone. I, for one, do a lot of editing on an Android phone. Another editor is Keepass2Android. There are plenty of Android editors. Most (if not almost all) my private data is stored on the sd card. > And, my editor by default inserts photos inside the document file. Photo editors are a different breed of app when it comes to "finding" their files. I'm not sure *how* media is handled differently than, oh, say, text files such as GPX files or PDF files or whatever - but there is some "magic" on a phone that seems to find all media, no matter where it is. So media (such as images & video) I think is a special case in this regard. That is, even if you changed the volume name (aka volume label) of your sd card, the image & video editors still seem to *find* the sd card files. If those on this newsgroup can edify us as to why that magic only works for media files, and not for, oh, say, text files (such as GPX files), please elucidate why other formats (such as PDF, gpx, kml, etc.) aren't easily found. > I can > link to external photos, but then, as I use Linux, I would use relative > paths or symlinks. I love your suggestion of symlinks, but as I painstakingly explained, nobody yet has proposed a way to do it that I know of, for Android. If you can get symlinks to work on the sdcard for Android, you'd be a far more intelligent man than I am, so I'll patiently await how you do it. > Also I *never* edit a file residing in flash storage. I edit in main > storage in the computer, then copy the result over to flash media if needed. Hmm... how do you edit GPX or KML files? Do you copy them from the sd storage to main storage just to edit them? Why? >> I feel sorry for people who don't have Android phones with sd card slots. >> Because if they want to double their portable storage, they can't. > > I haven't had that need in over a decade. Hmm. If you have never done it, and if all your suggestions can't possibly work, why are you making those suggestions which have no hope of working? >> Ignoring that the Volume ID is not changeable by the user, and hence has no >> value to us in controlling how Android editors find their sd card files... >> To your point of being easily able to change the other two using Windows >> (or Linux), why would you want to change the Volume Serial Number? >> Is there some value that you see in doing that which I don't yet comprehend >> which makes doing so of value in terms of controlling Android file editors? > > Fooling Windows into thinking you have not changed computer. Windows > used that value for finding pirated copies. Hmm... you seem to be completely unaware of what the problem set is. The problem set is fooling Android. Specifically editors. By using Windows. > Also you need to write those values when cloning hard disks (or flash > media). Huh? Nobody is suggesting cloning. This solution only requires copying. Cloning, e.g., using dd, is a completely different issue altogether: sudo dd if=/dev/source_disk of=/dev/destination_disk bs=4M status=progress > Storage cards are formatted the same as a hard disk. They contain > partition tables, and all the identifiers of a hard disk and the > partitions inside. And all the tools Windows or Linux have available for > hard disks will work on them. Again, I love your suggestion of symlinks, which is the first thing anyone would think of, but if you can get symlinks to work on non-rooted Android for the sdcard, then you're a far more intelligent man than I am. Please let us know how you accomplished tasks which you keep suggesting.
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| From | Marion <marion@facts.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-02 05:40 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vnn0g1$16mq$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> |
| In reply to | #181882 |
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 04:16:33 -0000 (UTC), Marion wrote : > So media (such as images & video) I think is a special case in this regard. To further add value... Given editing of multimedia files is a special case... and since this is all about editors finding their files when the storage is doubled, we should note that editing on phones is often far better than on desktops. Why, I don't know - but free cartoonify editors, in particular, seem to be vastly more powerful on phones than they are on any desktop I've ever used. Given media editors are sometimes far more advanced on mobile devices, it behooves all of us to better understand *how* phones tread multimedia files *differently* than all other file types (as far as I'm aware anyway). That is, even if I doubled my portable storage without bothering to match the old sdcard volume name (aka volume label), the editing apps *still* seem to find the special class of files known as multimedia files. That's great but why does Android treat only multimedia that way? Why not scan for all file types? Why does Android have a special system to scan *only* for multimedia files, such that doubling your sdcard portable memory causes no ill effects. Editors can still *find* your multimedia files even after doubling storage! I'm well aware of the trick to have the operating system *not* find them: /storage/0000-0001/0001/.nomedia But why does Android treat *only* media differently (using the media Scanner Service)? What about other files that we often edit? <com.android.providers.media> For example, if we double the portable storage, the media scanner system service is automatically triggered to scan the new portable storage for media files (images, audio, and video). When it finds a new "media" file (e.g., a .jpg, .png, .mp3, or .mp4, etc.), the media scanner extracts its concomitant metadata (like artist, album, title, date, resolution, etc.) and adds this information to the Android MediaStore SQLite database. /data/data/com.android.providers.media/databases/ Specifically, in a table containing a separate section each for MediaStore.Images MediaStore.Video MediaStore.Audio In summary, we probably need to clarify that there are two kinds of editors, only one of which is severely impacted when we double storage. a. Editors have no problem finding impacted media files b. But editors can't find all other impacted file types Unless you know the trick. :)
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-02 06:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vnn1v6$ieir$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #181883 |
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 05:40:17 -0000 (UTC), Marion wrote: > ... free cartoonify editors, in particular, seem to > be vastly more powerful on phones than they are on any desktop I've ever > used. Anything as powerful as this <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzqD4xcbEuE>?
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| From | Marion <marion@facts.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-02 21:34 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vnoodk$jkh$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> |
| In reply to | #181884 |
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 06:05:26 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote : >> ... free cartoonify editors, in particular, seem to >> be vastly more powerful on phones than they are on any desktop I've ever >> used. > > Anything as powerful as this <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzqD4xcbEuE>? Given this is an editing group, that heartfelt value added is useful. Especially as I always click on any link people kindly go to the trouble of supplying (so that I learn better what it is they are trying to teach me). Thank you for being purposefully value added helpful, as face "cartoonify" capabilities, in my humble opinion, based on my experience, suck on Windows versus Android. Notice I added "face" as that's how I use them (e.g., to take someone's image and cartoonify it for them for humor or so that they can use it as a privacy-aware avatar with their social media monikers). Interesting that you mentioned the blender app as I have strived to install (and at least briefly test) every single free "editing" app ever posted to the Windows-10 newsgroup over the years; so certainly I already had Blender installed - but - it's in my 3D folder. See my ad hoc %EDITOR% screenshot. <https://i.postimg.cc/pdC7R5Jw/blender01.jpg> From the time stamps, it looks like I first installed Blender on my desktop PC in October of 2018, and I last updated Blender in July of 2022. As I recall, Blender was extremely powerful; but I was looking at it for 3D CAD purposes (I think so that I could calculate oddly-shaped pool volumes). As a Windows-editor-related aside, I've tested all the free suggested cartoonify apps on Windows, as shown by this ad hoc %EDITOR% screenshot. <https://i.postimg.cc/NFgH18Gp/photo-editor01.jpg> Most of those %EDITORS% are to edit a screenshot (i.e., arrows, boxes & text); but some are for depth-of-field overlays or oil paintings or to remove blemishes, or some other rather specialized non-AI activity. A good AI activity of free cartoonifying, I haven't yet found on Windows. Looking at the link on Android mirrored over onto Windows, I see this: <https://i.postimg.cc/9Qvg3j53/blender-grease01.jpg> <https://i.postimg.cc/tJmRpzHM/blender-grease02.jpg> <https://i.postimg.cc/Zq52ZzVV/blender-grease03.jpg> <https://i.postimg.cc/Kz8yjgQS/blender-grease04.jpg> <https://i.postimg.cc/9FpKRfRc/blender-grease05.jpg> <https://i.postimg.cc/ydb2Npkc/blender-grease06.jpg> OMG! That's beautiful. Very awe-inspiringly beautiful. But, perhaps a lot of knowledge is required, whereas with the phone-based AI, no knowledge is necessary (but, of course, you only get the AI-generated choices also). By way of stark contrast, the results from Android AI-based cartoonify programs are (essentially) almost uncontrollable - but they too are nice. To always add value, my favorite Android cartoonify editors, are these: *PhotoRoom Studio Photo Editor* by Artizans of Photo Video BG Editor App Free, with ads, rated 4.7, 10M+ installs, requires GSF <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.photoroom.app> [PhotoRoom can be screenshotted.] [PhotoRoom is ok with adb shell screencap -p /sdcard/Download/screenshot.png] [PhotoRoom is good for transparizing the background away magic wand style.] [PhotoRoom saves the results with a watermark easily cropped.] *Photo Lab* Picture Editor & Art, by Linerock Investments LTD Free, with ads, rated 4.6, 100M+ installs, requires GSF <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=vsin.t16_funny_photo> *ToonMe* cartoons from photos, by Linerock Investments LTD Free, with ads, rated 4.4, 50M+ installs, requires GSF <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vicman.toonmeapp> *Voila* AI Artist Cartoon Photo by Wemagine.AI free, +ads (really obnoxious), requires gsf, rated 4.6, 10M+ installs <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wemagineai.voila> In their own way, the cartoonify AI on Android is good - but it pales in comparison to that inspiring video of what the Blender grease pencil does. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzqD4xcbEuE> Thanks for helping the Windows & %EDITORS% people by suggesting Blender! I'm going to have to find a tutorial that shows the *easiest* way to cartoonify something very simple - such as a closeup face portrait. -- Every post should add value for the vast majority of people reading it.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-03 00:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vnp105$tt74$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #181904 |
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 21:34:45 -0000 (UTC), Marion wrote: > As I recall, Blender was extremely powerful; but I was looking at it for > 3D CAD purposes ... It covers a lot of DCC application areas, as should be evident by now.
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| From | Marion <marion@facts.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-03 09:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vnq322$2mjc$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> |
| In reply to | #181907 |
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 00:01:09 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote : >> As I recall, Blender was extremely powerful; but I was looking at it for >> 3D CAD purposes ... > > It covers a lot of DCC application areas, as should be evident by now. Since this is an Editor group, discussing Android on Windows... I am going to try to illustrate below what is trivial on Android is difficult on Windows. If anyone can make that statement false, I'd be *happy* to hear how! Windows Blender is, in a word, powerful. But it's damn hard to use. Meanwhile, the Android apps I had suggested are, um, er, shall we say almost foolproof? All you do is pick a photo & you cartoonify it. Takes mere seconds. And no skills whatsoever. Sure, not much control. But what is trivial on Android, is damn near impossible to do on Windows. At least as far as anyone on these newsgroups has shown in this thread. And, trust me, I've tested *every* cartoonify program suggested here. Especially on Android, where I've tested (virtually) them all. Since I've tested, oh, I don't know, maybe two dozen of them, I'm aware that there are actually few offerings - it is just one company seeding the apps with the same AI but with slightly different branding, so there are really fewer than a half dozen to choose from to cartoonify faces. You don't get a whole lotta choices on results either, but you get enough that you don't really need too many as they do a pretty good job I think. At least for a funny joke... or for a social media avatar (or xface?). Let me make an example for you. I need someone's face? Googling... OK. Let's take the first image of Demi Moore in this article today: <https://www.thecut.com/article/review-the-substance-movie-gets-aging-wrong.html> Here is that face photo of Demi Moore as our starting point image: <https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/d2e/a37/d87bed8d2c9aefe83c99c4e094d5649622-the-substance.rhorizontal.w700.jpg> Actually, to fool (some) watermark algorithms, I'll stretch it: <stretched> Note that I can't use the external sdcard for this task because the Android cartoonify apps use the phones's sdcard0 storage - which is mounted onto Windows as the Q: drive (as the P: drive is the sdcard1 portable storage). With that in mind, I'm going to run the entire conversion on the Q: drive from Windows, but the Android CPU will be the underlying AI cartoonify engine so I'll be connecting all three newsgroups in this editing task. a. A cartoonify editor (to convert the image to a cartoonified avatar) b. Windows (to do all the snapshots & watermark removal tasks) c. Android (to run the AI cartoonify engine on the MediaTek CPU) In order of my personal cartoonify app preferences... 0. Original <https://i.postimg.cc/HLMKjCRH/original.jpg> (Stretched) <https://i.postimg.cc/63X9pcHj/original01.jpg> 1. Voila (/sdcard0/Pictures/Voila/.) <https://i.postimg.cc/P5DsvZvB/viola01.jpg> 2. ToonMe (/sdcard0/Pictures/ToonMe/.) <https://i.postimg.cc/VLbHKwst/toonme01.jpg> 3. PhotoLab <https://i.postimg.cc/vT52H7Nz/photolab01.jpg> 4. ToonArt (/sdcard0/Pictures/.) <https://i.postimg.cc/qvWKjfRN/toonart01.jpg> 5. CartoonPhoto (/sdcard0/Pictures/Cartoon_Photo/.) <https://i.postimg.cc/Dy8mDCRL/cartoonphoto01.jpg> 6. Comica (/sdcard0/Pictures/comica/.) <https://i.postimg.cc/d1sV9n87/comica01.jpg> 7. PhotoRoom (/sdcard0/Pictures/PhotoRoom/.) <https://i.postimg.cc/cCKZDz6J/photoroom01.jpg> My main point is that this kind of ease of use doesn't exist on Windows. Unfortunately. At least as far as anyone on these newsgroups knows. Note for the above I used Windows tricks, Android tricks, and (free) Android cartoonify editors (albeit I have to block their ads with DNS blocking tricks) where I had to use a few screenshotting tricks too. Nonetheless, it was so easy to cartoonify the original image, that anyone can do it - which is why I stated that I've never seen something that good on WIndows - although you did find something far more powerful. But the point here is what is trivial on Android, is extremely difficult to do on Windows - which is why I had said the statement that I did. -- The whole point of Usenet is to find people who know more than you do so that you learn from them; otherwise, you teach everyone else what you know so that someday, they will be able to teach you something also.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-06 20:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vo37hb$34a3i$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #181918 |
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 09:42:27 -0000 (UTC), Marion wrote: > Meanwhile, the Android apps I had suggested are, um, er, shall we say > almost foolproof? All you do is pick a photo & you cartoonify it. > > Takes mere seconds. > And no skills whatsoever. Give your users one button to push, they will all push that button. And all produce the same result. At some point the novelty wears off. Until the product vendor comes up with a new button for you to push. And maybe they start charging for some of those buttons, for the users who want an effect that isn’t quite the same as those available on the freeware version. And now they have a revenue stream. And the users have gained no skills whatsoever, beyond the ability to push the offered buttons.
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| From | Marion <marion@facts.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-08 04:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vo6m64$1jq6$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> |
| In reply to | #182043 |
On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 20:54:03 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote : >> Takes mere seconds. >> And no skills whatsoever. > > Give your users one button to push, they will all push that button. And > all produce the same result. That's exactly what I want. Only you get the choice of a few buttons. > At some point the novelty wears off. It does the job. In seconds. For example, let's say this was me. <https://i.postimg.cc/HLMKjCRH/original.jpg> With a button press on Android, this could be my look-alike avatar. <https://i.postimg.cc/QMdy1sp7/avatar.jpg> People would still recognize that avatar as me. For one button press. That efficiently preserves (most of) my face privacy while still being me. > Until the product vendor comes up with a new button for you to push. AI will only get better. But what I pine for is the ease of cartoonify editors on Windows to exist. > And maybe they start charging for some of those buttons, for the users who > want an effect that isn't quite the same as those available on the > freeware version. They already do that on the Android platform but I shun all payware as unbecoming of privacy (as I do adware, but cartoonifiers are adware). > And now they have a revenue stream. And the users have gained no skills > whatsoever, beyond the ability to push the offered buttons. Understood about the revenue stream, and the lack of skills of the user enabling that revenue stream, but I've only paid for two pieces of software (well, maybe three) in my life - so I'm not likely to be their whale. In summary, while this offshoot is about finding on Windows the power of Android editors, overall Windows software pales in comparison to what Android software does in terms of one-click cartoonify editing features. Where Windows excels over Android is in complicated cartooners, like Blender - which is your point - I understand - but it's not what I asked.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-02 15:07 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <6qa47lxamm.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #181882 |
On 2025-02-02 05:16, Marion wrote: > On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:54:19 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote : > > >>> The editor has no clue that you just swapped out the sd card to a new >>> one! >>> But, of course, the editor has to prior be aware of storage on the sd >>> card. >> >> I don't use editors on phone nor tablet. > > Hi Carlos, > > If you don't ever use editors on a mobile device, then that's unusual. > Most people experience using editors on a mobile device, even if you don't. > > But I find it hard to believe you don't use editors on a mobile device. > > You don't use offline maps for example? Really? Seriously? > How do you navigate using your phone when there is no Internet signal? Till today I had no idea you were talking of map editors. I was thinking text editors. No, I do not use map editors on my phone, either. I use map apps that view the map, not edit them. > > Offline map editors are just one type of editor on an Android phone. > I, for one, do a lot of editing on an Android phone. > > Another editor is Keepass2Android. There are plenty of Android editors. > Most (if not almost all) my private data is stored on the sd card. I don't "edit" my password file on the phone. > >> And, my editor by default inserts photos inside the document file. > > Photo editors are a different breed of app when it comes to "finding" their > files. I'm not sure *how* media is handled differently than, oh, say, text > files such as GPX files or PDF files or whatever - but there is some > "magic" on a phone that seems to find all media, no matter where it is. > > So media (such as images & video) I think is a special case in this regard. > > That is, even if you changed the volume name (aka volume label) of your sd > card, the image & video editors still seem to *find* the sd card files. > > If those on this newsgroup can edify us as to why that magic only works for > media files, and not for, oh, say, text files (such as GPX files), please > elucidate why other formats (such as PDF, gpx, kml, etc.) aren't easily > found. Because "editor" to me is a text editor, and I was thinking of the one I use, Libre Office Writer. Ok, a word processor. If I have to edit pure plain text files they are just a few kilobytes in size. > >> I can link to external photos, but then, as I use Linux, I would use >> relative paths or symlinks. > > I love your suggestion of symlinks, but as I painstakingly explained, > nobody yet has proposed a way to do it that I know of, for Android. > Your question is posted to the editors group, and to the windows group, so I don't have to limit my thinking to Android. > If you can get symlinks to work on the sdcard for Android, you'd be a far > more intelligent man than I am, so I'll patiently await how you do it. > >> Also I *never* edit a file residing in flash storage. I edit in main >> storage in the computer, then copy the result over to flash media if >> needed. > > Hmm... how do you edit GPX or KML files? I don't. I thought you were talking of text files. > Do you copy them from the sd storage to main storage just to edit them? > Why? Because the wear in flash cards is limited, and using an editor in such media stresses them. > >>> I feel sorry for people who don't have Android phones with sd card >>> slots. >>> Because if they want to double their portable storage, they can't. >> >> I haven't had that need in over a decade. > > Hmm. If you have never done it, and if all your suggestions can't possibly > work, why are you making those suggestions which have no hope of working? > Arlen, you have changed the goalposts. You never said you were not talking of text editors till today. >>> Ignoring that the Volume ID is not changeable by the user, and hence >>> has no >>> value to us in controlling how Android editors find their sd card >>> files... >>> To your point of being easily able to change the other two using Windows >>> (or Linux), why would you want to change the Volume Serial Number? >>> Is there some value that you see in doing that which I don't yet >>> comprehend >>> which makes doing so of value in terms of controlling Android file >>> editors? >> >> Fooling Windows into thinking you have not changed computer. Windows >> used that value for finding pirated copies. > > Hmm... you seem to be completely unaware of what the problem set is. > The problem set is fooling Android. Specifically editors. By using Windows. I'm sure that Windows has tools to change those values without formatting the media, you just have to find them. I am a Linux guy, so I know how to do that in Linux. >> Also you need to write those values when cloning hard disks (or flash >> media). > > Huh? Nobody is suggesting cloning. This solution only requires copying. No, Arlen, I'm just giving an example of why the need to edit that value. One that I have needed to do in the past. I'm not suggesting you clone anything. > > Cloning, e.g., using dd, is a completely different issue altogether: > sudo dd if=/dev/source_disk of=/dev/destination_disk bs=4M status=progress > >> Storage cards are formatted the same as a hard disk. They contain >> partition tables, and all the identifiers of a hard disk and the >> partitions inside. And all the tools Windows or Linux have available >> for hard disks will work on them. > > Again, I love your suggestion of symlinks, which is the first thing anyone > would think of, but if you can get symlinks to work on non-rooted Android > for the sdcard, then you're a far more intelligent man than I am. > > Please let us know how you accomplished tasks which you keep suggesting. You posted in three groups, the answers do not have to be limited to one operating system. I said I never "edit" on Android. Meaning Libre Office Writer, or Microsoft Word. You did not say till today that you were editing maps in the woods without internet. And no, I never felt the need to edit maps on the phone. I just view them with an app, typically OSMand+. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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