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Re: OT - change to Windows 11

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  Re: OT - change to Windows 11 scbs29 <scbs29@fred.talktalk.net> - 2025-07-28 09:16 +0100
    Re: OT - change to Windows 11 Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-07-28 07:40 -0400
      Re: OT - change to Windows 11 scbs29 <scbs29@fred.talktalk.net> - 2025-07-28 17:44 +0100
        Re: OT - change to Windows 11 MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> - 2025-07-28 18:58 +0100
        Re: OT - change to Windows 11 Jack <Jack@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-28 23:25 +0000
          Re: OT - change to Windows 11 "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-07-29 00:53 +0100
            Re: OT - change to Windows 11 Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-07-29 11:57 -0400
        Re: OT - change to Windows 11 Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-07-29 16:28 -0400
    Re: OT - change to Windows 11 "...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-07-28 10:41 -0400
      Re: OT - change to Windows 11 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-07-29 19:23 +0200
      Re: OT - change to Windows 11 "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-07-29 23:01 +0100

#186287 — Re: OT - change to Windows 11

Thankyou for all of the advice.
Just one more question (I think) before deciding whether or not to take the plunge.
My system disk is partitioned as System Reserved just under 500Mb and C: which fills the rest of the 500 Gb SSD.
The partition setup for Windows 11 is of course different to that for 10.
If I change from 10 to 11 through the Microsoft Update service, will the update automatically create the
new partition setup for me, or do I have to do that manually before the update?
TIA

On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 12:10:27 +0100, scbs29 <scbs29@fred.talktalk.net> wrote:

>Hello all
>At present I use Windows 10 Pro, but am beginning to consider changing to Windows 11 Pro.
>I do not like the idea of having to log in with a Microsoft account though. If I did decide
>to change to Windows 11 is it possible to install to replace my Windows 10 OS with a
>local account and not affect my installed software. Some of the software I use is
>no longer available and I do not wish to lose them.
>I have looked on the internet and there seem to be differing opinions as to what I want
>to do.
>Has anyone any experience of what I wish to do ?
>Is there a Windows 11 newsgroup ? I am having difficulty in finding one.

-- 
remove fred before emailing

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#186291

On Mon, 7/28/2025 4:16 AM, scbs29 wrote:
> Thankyou for all of the advice.
> Just one more question (I think) before deciding whether or not to take the plunge.
> My system disk is partitioned as System Reserved just under 500Mb and C: which fills the rest of the 500 Gb SSD.
> The partition setup for Windows 11 is of course different to that for 10.
> If I change from 10 to 11 through the Microsoft Update service, will the update automatically create the
> new partition setup for me, or do I have to do that manually before the update?
> TIA
> 
> On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 12:10:27 +0100, scbs29 <scbs29@fred.talktalk.net> wrote:
> 
>> Hello all
>> At present I use Windows 10 Pro, but am beginning to consider changing to Windows 11 Pro.
>> I do not like the idea of having to log in with a Microsoft account though. If I did decide
>> to change to Windows 11 is it possible to install to replace my Windows 10 OS with a
>> local account and not affect my installed software. Some of the software I use is
>> no longer available and I do not wish to lose them.
>> I have looked on the internet and there seem to be differing opinions as to what I want
>> to do.
>> Has anyone any experience of what I wish to do ?
>> Is there a Windows 11 newsgroup ? I am having difficulty in finding one.
> 

alt.comp.os.windows-11             # Refresh newsgroups and see if it exists on Easynews.

Let's start with a picture.

This is a rough approximation of what I think your disk looks like.

    [Picture]

     https://i.postimg.cc/dtJYk2nq/Win10-RLS-256-GBSamsung-MBR-Boot.gif

Even if your install environment is non-compliant at the hardware level,
I think UEFI Non-Secure Boot is a W11 minimum, and on a GPT disk.
(You could do that with Rufus.ie USB preparation utility.)

Windows 10 allowed Legacy Boot as an option, on an MBR disk. I have fun
remembering exactly which disk has a setup like this on it. I do not
create these setups systematically (like a scientist), each install is
"just an accident".

I have grabbed this SSD from my collection, as an example of a 64-bit
OS that boots in Legacy Mode, on an MBR disk.

The "MGR2GPT.exe" utility, we're not exactly sure who or how Microsoft
got this utility written, but it violates one of the "first laws" of
partition management. Anyone who writes partition management software knows,
"each operation must be a primitive" and "ask the user before each primitive operation".
This is to prevent damage, to goods for which a backup might not exist.

The MBR2GPT utility on the other hand, does more partition operations than
is normal for Partition Management software.

One of the things it is going to do, is validate the incoming partition setup,
to "see if this is a partition setup I recognize and support". That is why,
in my artwork above, I have indicated my DATA partition on the end, should be
moved off to another storage device before conversion. That partition would
likely give a problem during "validate".

And then, having said such a thing, that the utility would not tolerate a D: (DATA)
partition, you would also have to remember that windows installers do not
tolerate "moved" Program File folders, "moved" profile folders and other
customizations. There are likely a large number of customizations that
are not going to endear you to this process. Like, what would a
Win10-to-Win11 Upgrade-inplace-install do, if it found Explorer-Patcher present ???

*******

First you need to do a backup of the storage device. It might take
multiple tries, for you to get all your details aligned with whatever
requirements apply to your install. The way you are approaching this
installation, suggests you'll be using Rufus or something, and your
machine is hardware-wise, just as non-compliant as the machine I took
that picture on (fourth generation 4930K olde machine). I do have
Win11 installed on that machine by the way, as a Rufus-inspired install.

https://www.thewindowsclub.com/mbr2gpt-tool-windows-10

On a different machine, I did one of the disk conversions. (I only found
this just now, looking in my Sent folder.)

   [Picture]   Download original file (using the Download button) for highest resolution

    https://i.postimg.cc/d12yNSg7/preparing-disk-for-W11-adventures.gif

It almost looks like my ReagentC (WinRE.wim emergency boot) was living in C:
instead of the 2GB partition. Notice that Partition 3 was the ReagentC initially,
and now Partition 3 is the EFI System Partition, which would invalidate the
ReagentC reference to "Partition 3". The ReagentC likely should have said
"Partition 4" before I started, and then maybe the reagentc repair step
the utility was doing, it might have worked then. ReagentC can be
repaired with PushButtonReset method (PBR), which is the same method
a Windows OS installer disc uses (even if, many times, the stupid
installer doesn't manage to do this correctly!).

I don't want to scare you off the procedure, and this ReagentC issue can be
repaired separately, after you check (some day) as Administrator,
that ReagentC is enabled (and presumably valid).

   reagentc /info    # Check it is enabled when all is said and done later.

The "preparing-disk-for-W11-adventures.gif" is closer to what I would
expect for a fully ready for conversion disk. But it looks like
in the example, my ReagentC is enabled and valid before the conversion
started, but likely is broken (and repairable) after the conversion is done.

The "validate" step is checking for ReagentC being enabled, before the
MBR2GPT conversion, and it is doing this because the utility has a
ReagentC repair step it wants to do. And it can do that, IF the
ReagentC is in decent shape. It looks like my conversion happened,
but I didn't set my ReagentC up "perfectly right" and that is why the
utility grumbled a bit while running. Maybe if it said Partition 4 before
the process began, it might have worked.

So even before you get to the step of installing Windows 11, you will be
GPT Non-Secure Booting UEFI Windows 10 x64 before you do the next step,
which is the In-Place Upgrade Install. After MBR2GPT runs, the storage
device should be bootable, and everything should look as before. The
Disk Management partition lineup, I'm not completely happy with how
MBR2GPT does it, but it would be a "metric bitch" to fix :-) It
would take some drag and drop restoration, boot repair, reagentc repair,
and so on. It's like re-paving the road.

But you also have to remember, that not many softwares offer
this service, so getting this far is some kind of miracle.
You have to be appreciative of that utility, even if the
utility does not seem to be all that adventurous. The output
of such a complex mess could easily be broken, which is why
there is a "validate" as guard rails. Like, if your Windows 10 boots
after that conversion is done... it's some kind of miracle :-)

   Paul

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#186314

On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 07:40:27 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

Thankyou for your reply.
My system disk has only 2 partitions, one of just under 500 Mb and the remaining 465.35 Gb of the disk
occupied with the o/s, 24% free space. Most programs, data etc are on my D, E or G (USB) drive.
According to Microsoft PCHealthCheck my PC meets all of the requirements for Windows 11
with the exception of Secure Boot. This of course I can set up in BIOS. 
SInce my PC will then meet all of the Win 11 requirements I thought I could then do an 'in-place'
change through the normal Microsoft Windows Update service. After cloning the system disk to
another disk naturally.
I can convert to GPT with AOEMI Partition Assistant.
Will the Microsoft Update change the partition setup on my system disk for me ?
Should I approach Microsoft with the question ?

>
>
>But you also have to remember, that not many softwares offer
>this service, so getting this far is some kind of miracle.
>You have to be appreciative of that utility, even if the
>utility does not seem to be all that adventurous. The output
>of such a complex mess could easily be broken, which is why
>there is a "validate" as guard rails. Like, if your Windows 10 boots
>after that conversion is done... it's some kind of miracle :-)
>
>   Paul

-- 
remove fred before emailing

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#186316

On 28/07/2025 17:44, scbs29 wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 07:40:27 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> 
> Thankyou for your reply.
> My system disk has only 2 partitions, one of just under 500 Mb and the remaining 465.35 Gb of the disk
> occupied with the o/s, 24% free space. Most programs, data etc are on my D, E or G (USB) drive.
> According to Microsoft PCHealthCheck my PC meets all of the requirements for Windows 11
> with the exception of Secure Boot. This of course I can set up in BIOS.
> SInce my PC will then meet all of the Win 11 requirements I thought I could then do an 'in-place'
> change through the normal Microsoft Windows Update service. After cloning the system disk to
> another disk naturally.
> I can convert to GPT with AOEMI Partition Assistant.
> Will the Microsoft Update change the partition setup on my system disk for me ?
> Should I approach Microsoft with the question ?
> 
I downloaded the latest Win11 ISO to an external drive, mounted it, then 
ran setup.exe requesting an in-place update. If there is anything setup 
doesn't like it will abort and tell you why.

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#186322

On 28/07/2025 17:44, scbs29 wrote:
> I can convert to GPT with AOEMI Partition Assistant.

No you don't need that crap because Microsoft has its own way of doing 
such routine tasks:

MBR2GPT.EXE

<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/mbr-to-gpt>

Also I should mention that Windows 11 is here and if your machine can be 
upgraded then there is no reason why you should wait. In October all 
hell will break out when Windows 10's support will officially end. You 
will get extra one year if you provide Microsoft with your private data 
but people will start talking about 25H2 and Windows 12 while some 
people haven't even decided what they want from their remaining life!

Don't waste any more time and start backing up your system and crack on 
with it by upgrading to Windows 11 24H2 for now until 25H2 comes out in 
two months time. Upgrading to 25H2 will be as easy as running a very 
small file and restarting the system. It won't be difficult if you have 
Windows 11 24H2 fully upgraded.

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#186323

On 2025/7/29 0:25:6, Jack wrote:

[]

> Also I should mention that Windows 11 is here and if your machine can be 
> upgraded then there is no reason why you should wait. In October all 
> hell will break out when Windows 10's support will officially end. You 

Have you any reason to believe the amount of hell breaking loose will be
any different for the end of 10, than it was for the end of XP and 7?
There were plenty of doom-sayers then, and I'm sure there will be at the
end of 11, too. (Not that there's been _anything_ actually from M$ about
W12, though lots of people love to speculate.)

> will get extra one year if you provide Microsoft with your private data 
> but people will start talking about 25H2 and Windows 12 while some 
> people haven't even decided what they want from their remaining life!

I know what I want from mine, and it certainly isn't constantly hanging
on M$'s coat-tails. I used both XP and 7 well beyond their cutoff dates
(I means _years_), and little ill befell me; if I hadn't had to use
something that wouldn't run under 7-32, I'd still be using that now.>
> Don't waste any more time and start backing up your system and crack on 

Certainly, one should always be making backups.

> with it by upgrading to Windows 11 24H2 for now until 25H2 comes out in 

I'm on (10) 22H2, and not aware of suffering grievously!

> two months time. Upgrading to 25H2 will be as easy as running a very 
> small file and restarting the system. It won't be difficult if you have 
> Windows 11 24H2 fully upgraded.
> 
> Lots of things are easy (though I'm not sure about that upgrade); that
doesn't mean you should automatically do them. (And lots of things are
difficult but still _should_ be done.)
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Alcohol is way ahead of cocaine as the world's deadliest drug, hastening
around
three million people per year into their graves (cocaine and heroin and
crystal
meth account for around half a million annually).
Revd Richard Coles, RT 2021/7/3-9

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#186338

On Mon, 7/28/2025 7:53 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> On 2025/7/29 0:25:6, Jack wrote:
> 
> []
> 
>> Also I should mention that Windows 11 is here and if your machine can be 
>> upgraded then there is no reason why you should wait. In October all 
>> hell will break out when Windows 10's support will officially end. You 
> 
> Have you any reason to believe the amount of hell breaking loose will be
> any different for the end of 10, than it was for the end of XP and 7?
> There were plenty of doom-sayers then, and I'm sure there will be at the
> end of 11, too. (Not that there's been _anything_ actually from M$ about
> W12, though lots of people love to speculate.)
> 
>> will get extra one year if you provide Microsoft with your private data 
>> but people will start talking about 25H2 and Windows 12 while some 
>> people haven't even decided what they want from their remaining life!
> 
> I know what I want from mine, and it certainly isn't constantly hanging
> on M$'s coat-tails. I used both XP and 7 well beyond their cutoff dates
> (I means _years_), and little ill befell me; if I hadn't had to use
> something that wouldn't run under 7-32, I'd still be using that now.>
>> Don't waste any more time and start backing up your system and crack on 
> 
> Certainly, one should always be making backups.
> 
>> with it by upgrading to Windows 11 24H2 for now until 25H2 comes out in 
> 
> I'm on (10) 22H2, and not aware of suffering grievously!
> 
>> two months time. Upgrading to 25H2 will be as easy as running a very 
>> small file and restarting the system. It won't be difficult if you have 
>> Windows 11 24H2 fully upgraded.
>>
>> Lots of things are easy (though I'm not sure about that upgrade); that
> doesn't mean you should automatically do them. (And lots of things are
> difficult but still _should_ be done.)
> 

You are our rock :-)

I am simulating Fred on the other machine right now.
We'll see whether Simulated-Fred enters the Matrix or not.

One thing that is interesting, is it is possible the MBR2GPT behavior
varies from one version to the next. It still does not seem to have handled
the ReagentC partition quite right (it claims an attempt to "repair" it
did not work), but it seems the GPT attribute was changed from 0x1 to 0x0
and that is why the Disk Management appearance of the partition is not
correct. After fixing that and setting it back to 0x1 (means "Important" as
an attribute for the partition), the label is back to rendering correctly
in Disk Management. The ReagentC did not need to be repaired after all
(because the new method used by the MBR2GPT of 19045 DVD does not
change the partition numbering and no longer looks stupid).

   Paul

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#186348

On Mon, 7/28/2025 12:44 PM, scbs29 wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 07:40:27 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> 
> Thankyou for your reply.
> My system disk has only 2 partitions, one of just under 500 Mb and the remaining 465.35 Gb of the disk
> occupied with the o/s, 24% free space. Most programs, data etc are on my D, E or G (USB) drive.
> According to Microsoft PCHealthCheck my PC meets all of the requirements for Windows 11
> with the exception of Secure Boot. This of course I can set up in BIOS. 
> SInce my PC will then meet all of the Win 11 requirements I thought I could then do an 'in-place'
> change through the normal Microsoft Windows Update service. After cloning the system disk to
> another disk naturally.
> I can convert to GPT with AOEMI Partition Assistant.
> Will the Microsoft Update change the partition setup on my system disk for me ?
> Should I approach Microsoft with the question ?
> 

Here is a simulation of what I think you have on your disk.

I started with a 17763 install, to match what you seem to be describing for W10.

I install 19045 Win10 over top of that, which adds the Recovery Partition.

I bumped up the size of the Recovery Partition using gparted on Linux
(as the Microsoft tools won't allow it and the recipe on the Windows
side is to delete and re-create the partition and this is a lot more
work for me).

I prepared a Rufus stick, where only the tick box for "not needing an MSA"
was ticked. And the upgrade install over top of the 19045, to 26100,
did not stop and ask me any questions.

   [Picture]

    https://i.postimg.cc/nc5Qgyyw/Approximate-Upgrade-W10-Fred.gif

The reason I did it that way, is I suspect if you check your "winver.exe"
output, you're not running 19045 right now, and your updates stopped
at some point. Maybe at the moment, *no* inplace-upgrade will work,
but you'll just have to wait and see whether it fails and rolls back.
As I'm not 100% positive we're on the same wavelength on terminology.
I might be misinterpreting your description of what those other partitions
are for.

  Paul

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#186302

scbs29 wrote:
> Thankyou for all of the advice.
> Just one more question (I think) before deciding whether or not to take the plunge.
> My system disk is partitioned as System Reserved just under 500Mb and C: which fills the rest of the 500 Gb SSD.
> The partition setup for Windows 11 is of course different to that for 10.
> If I change from 10 to 11 through the Microsoft Update service, will the update automatically create the
> new partition setup for me, or do I have to do that manually before the update?
> TIA
> 
> On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 12:10:27 +0100, scbs29 <scbs29@fred.talktalk.net> wrote:
> 
>> Hello all
>> At present I use Windows 10 Pro, but am beginning to consider changing to Windows 11 Pro.
>> I do not like the idea of having to log in with a Microsoft account though. If I did decide
>> to change to Windows 11 is it possible to install to replace my Windows 10 OS with a
>> local account and not affect my installed software. Some of the software I use is
>> no longer available and I do not wish to lose them.
>> I have looked on the internet and there seem to be differing opinions as to what I want
>> to do.
>> Has anyone any experience of what I wish to do ?
>> Is there a Windows 11 newsgroup ? I am having difficulty in finding one.
> 
Only two partitions based on what you see in Windows 10 Disk Management?

Does your Win10 device have a UEFI/BIOS or only BIOS?
  - UEFI/BIOS supports both GPT and MBR partitioning
  - BIOS only supports MBR partitioning
  => Windows 11 requires the former. Windows 10 supports both.


Can you tell us more about the hardware?
  e.g. CPU, Motherboard

-- 
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ

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#186341

On 2025-07-28 16:41, ...winston wrote:
> scbs29 wrote:
>> Thankyou for all of the advice.
>> Just one more question (I think) before deciding whether or not to 

...

>>> Has anyone any experience of what I wish to do ?
>>> Is there a Windows 11 newsgroup ? I am having difficulty in finding one.
>>
> Only two partitions based on what you see in Windows 10 Disk Management?
> 
> Does your Win10 device have a UEFI/BIOS or only BIOS?
>   - UEFI/BIOS supports both GPT and MBR partitioning
>   - BIOS only supports MBR partitioning

Not really true, I have bios machines with gpt partitions. Booting Linux 
though, I have not tried with Windows.

Google says:

Can BIOS boot from GPT disk?
Can you use BIOS and GPT together? They can, provided that you have a 
boot loader capable of booting a system from a drive with GPT, and which 
fits into the space reserved in the legacy MBR. The legacy MBR is quite 
small, so fitting a boot loader that supports both MBR and GRP into that 
space would be quite difficult.31 Mar 2023

Or:

<https://www.lightofdawn.org/wiki/wiki.cgi/BIOSBootGPT>

Booting GPT disk on BIOS systems

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#186352

On 2025/7/28 15:41:18, ...winston wrote:
> scbs29 wrote:

[]

>>> Is there a Windows 11 newsgroup ? I am having difficulty in finding one.

[]
Yes.

Given you're posting this in alt.comp.os.windows-10, you might be able
to guess what the W11 one is called - if you can't see it, you may need
to tell your newsreader to ask for an updated list of 'groups.
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Of course some of it [television] is bad. But some of everything is bad
- books, music, family ... - Melvyn Bragg, RT 2017/7/1-7

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