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Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24

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  Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-11-15 14:39 +0000
    Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-11-15 15:04 +0000
      Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-11-15 15:17 +0000
        Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any  version) into Ubuntu 24 vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-11-15 16:17 +0000
          Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-11-15 17:19 +0000
            Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-11-15 11:56 -0600
    Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-11-15 17:27 +0000
      Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-11-15 17:51 +0000
      Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-11-15 23:43 +0200
        Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-11-15 20:18 -0600
          Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-11-17 12:14 +0200
            Disable FastBoot  (was: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24) VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-11-17 06:19 -0600
              Re: Disable FastBoot Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-11-17 16:51 +0000
                Re: Disable FastBoot Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-11-19 11:11 +0200
              Re: Disable FastBoot "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-17 19:24 +0100
                Re: Disable FastBoot Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-18 04:44 +0000
                  Re: Disable FastBoot "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-18 07:08 +0100
            Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-11-17 07:23 -0500
            Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-18 01:23 +0100
          Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-17 12:36 +0100
            Disable FastBoot (was: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24) VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-11-17 06:26 -0600
              Re: Disable FastBoot MikeS <mikes@is.invalid> - 2025-11-17 15:48 +0000
                Re: Disable FastBoot VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-11-17 11:38 -0600
                  Re: Disable FastBoot "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-17 19:58 +0100
                  Re: Disable FastBoot Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-11-17 19:32 +0000
              Re: Disable FastBoot (was: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-18 04:47 +0000
                Re: Disable FastBoot "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-18 07:32 +0100
                  Re: Disable FastBoot Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-18 07:31 +0000
    Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-11-15 11:27 -0600
      Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-11-15 18:00 +0000
        Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-11-15 20:06 -0600
    Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-15 20:43 +0100
      Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-11-21 20:41 +0000

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#2978 — Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24

In case it's helpful to anyone else ...

I have some Dell Precision M6800s & M6700s dual-booting via Grub between 
various versions of Windows and Ubuntu 24, all cabled to the LAN.  If I 
choose to move between any version of Windows and Ubuntu by rebooting, 
Ubuntu 24 cannot make a reliable cabled LAN connection, it keeps trying 
to connect but never succeeds.  However, if I choose to move between any 
version of Windows and Ubuntu by shutting down the PC in between, Ubuntu 
24 'just works', no networking problem at all.  Reboot from U24 and go 
back into U24, the situation is unchanged  -  if it was working before 
the reboot, it's working now, if it wasn't working before the reboot, it 
isn't working now.  Reboot from U24 and go back into Windows, no network 
problems in Windows at all.  Reboot from Windows and go back into any 
version of Windows, no network problems at all.

In summary, when rebooting ...
     Ubuntu 24 -> Ubuntu 24    No change
     Ubuntu 24 -> Windows      No problem
     Windows -> Ubuntu 24      U24 cannot make cabled LAN connection
     Windows -> Windows        No problem

It seems to me from this that the cabled network hardware is not being 
properly initialised when booting Ubuntu 24.  The cure is simply to 
actually power down the PC before launching Ubuntu 24

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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#2980

Java Jive wrote:

> It seems to me from this that the cabled network hardware is not being 
> properly initialised when booting Ubuntu 24.  The cure is simply to 
> actually power down the PC before launching Ubuntu 24

I had some older Dells (Precision and Dimension) which disabled the NIC 
if it wasn't physically connected at the time it booted Windows, there 
was a utility to re-enable it, probably doesn't exist for Linux (though 
Dell were pretty good with their Linux support via Fedora last time I 
kept up with it).

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#2981

On 2025-11-15 15:04, Andy Burns wrote:
> Java Jive wrote:
> 
>> It seems to me from this that the cabled network hardware is not being 
>> properly initialised when booting Ubuntu 24.  The cure is simply to 
>> actually power down the PC before launching Ubuntu 24
> 
> I had some older Dells (Precision and Dimension) which disabled the NIC 
> if it wasn't physically connected at the time it booted Windows, there 
> was a utility to re-enable it, probably doesn't exist for Linux (though 
> Dell were pretty good with their Linux support via Fedora last time I 
> kept up with it).

Interesting piece of info ...  However, during the testing these were in 
E-Dock stations  -  from which they are only undocked when I travel, so 
weren't undocked during testing  -  so seemingly there wouldn't be any 
reason for either OS to disable the netcard, as it was permanently 
connected during the testing.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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#2982 — Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24

At Sat, 15 Nov 2025 15:17:26 +0000, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

> On 2025-11-15 15:04, Andy Burns wrote:
> > Java Jive wrote:
> >
> >> It seems to me from this that the cabled network hardware is not
> >> being properly initialised when booting Ubuntu 24.  The cure is
> >> simply to actually power down the PC before launching Ubuntu 24
> >
> > I had some older Dells (Precision and Dimension) which disabled the
> > NIC if it wasn't physically connected at the time it booted
> > Windows, there was a utility to re-enable it, probably doesn't
> > exist for Linux (though Dell were pretty good with their Linux
> > support via Fedora last time I kept up with it).
>
> Interesting piece of info ...  However, during the testing these were
> in E-Dock stations  -  from which they are only undocked when I
> travel, so weren't undocked during testing  -  so seemingly there
> wouldn't be any reason for either OS to disable the netcard, as it
> was permanently connected during the testing.

Weird problem.  If you want to troubleshoot, you might get
it into failure mode, then run ethtool on the ethernet device
to see if auto-negotiation is happening properly, if the
Linux driver thinks link is detected, and so forth.

What chipset does your Ethernet use, and is it part
of the dock?  It appears that Intel driver modules
have a "debug" option that can be set, not sure if
that helps...

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090Ti 24G
   OS: Linux 6.17.8 D: Mint 22.2 DE: Xfce 4.18 
   NVIDIA: 580.105.08 Mem: 258G
   "Ethernet n.: something used to catch the etherbunny."

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#2984

On 2025-11-15 16:17, vallor wrote:
> At Sat, 15 Nov 2025 15:17:26 +0000, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 2025-11-15 15:04, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>>> It seems to me from this that the cabled network hardware is not
>>>> being properly initialised when booting Ubuntu 24.  The cure is
>>>> simply to actually power down the PC before launching Ubuntu 24
>>>
>>> I had some older Dells (Precision and Dimension) which disabled the
>>> NIC if it wasn't physically connected at the time it booted
>>> Windows, there was a utility to re-enable it, probably doesn't
>>> exist for Linux (though Dell were pretty good with their Linux
>>> support via Fedora last time I kept up with it).
>>
>> Interesting piece of info ...  However, during the testing these were
>> in E-Dock stations  -  from which they are only undocked when I
>> travel, so weren't undocked during testing  -  so seemingly there
>> wouldn't be any reason for either OS to disable the netcard, as it
>> was permanently connected during the testing.
> 
> Weird problem.  If you want to troubleshoot, you might get
> it into failure mode, then run ethtool on the ethernet device
> to see if auto-negotiation is happening properly, if the
> Linux driver thinks link is detected, and so forth.
> 
> What chipset does your Ethernet use, and is it part
> of the dock?  It appears that Intel driver modules
> have a "debug" option that can be set, not sure if
> that helps...

Thanks for the suggestions, but now I know what causes it and the simple 
fix, probably I shall just try to remember always to shut down the PC 
before going into Ubuntu.

Back now in Windows, the cabled net card is described as 'Intel Ethernet 
Connection I217-LM', and this doesn't change when docking and undocking 
the PC.  Similarly, another PC's net card, again regardless of whether 
it is docked or not, is described as 'Intel 82579LM Gigabit Network 
Connection' (I haven't tested the Ubuntu 24 problem on that one, as it 
wasn't the PC I noticed the problem on).  Given this, I think the dock 
is merely an alternative connection between the PC's network interface 
and the outside world, and doesn't have it's own separate network 
interface in the dock itself.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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#2988

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:

> On 2025-11-15 16:17, vallor wrote:
>> At Sat, 15 Nov 2025 15:17:26 +0000, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2025-11-15 15:04, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It seems to me from this that the cabled network hardware is not
>>>>> being properly initialised when booting Ubuntu 24.  The cure is
>>>>> simply to actually power down the PC before launching Ubuntu 24
>>>>
>>>> I had some older Dells (Precision and Dimension) which disabled the
>>>> NIC if it wasn't physically connected at the time it booted
>>>> Windows, there was a utility to re-enable it, probably doesn't
>>>> exist for Linux (though Dell were pretty good with their Linux
>>>> support via Fedora last time I kept up with it).
>>>
>>> Interesting piece of info ...  However, during the testing these were
>>> in E-Dock stations  -  from which they are only undocked when I
>>> travel, so weren't undocked during testing  -  so seemingly there
>>> wouldn't be any reason for either OS to disable the netcard, as it
>>> was permanently connected during the testing.
>> 
>> Weird problem.  If you want to troubleshoot, you might get
>> it into failure mode, then run ethtool on the ethernet device
>> to see if auto-negotiation is happening properly, if the
>> Linux driver thinks link is detected, and so forth.
>> 
>> What chipset does your Ethernet use, and is it part
>> of the dock?  It appears that Intel driver modules
>> have a "debug" option that can be set, not sure if
>> that helps...
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions, but now I know what causes it and the simple 
> fix, probably I shall just try to remember always to shut down the PC 
> before going into Ubuntu.
> 
> Back now in Windows, the cabled net card is described as 'Intel Ethernet 
> Connection I217-LM', and this doesn't change when docking and undocking 
> the PC.  Similarly, another PC's net card, again regardless of whether 
> it is docked or not, is described as 'Intel 82579LM Gigabit Network 
> Connection' (I haven't tested the Ubuntu 24 problem on that one, as it 
> wasn't the PC I noticed the problem on).  Given this, I think the dock 
> is merely an alternative connection between the PC's network interface 
> and the outside world, and doesn't have it's own separate network 
> interface in the dock itself.

Were doing a cold or warm reboot between switching OSes?  A cold reboot
has the CPU send a reset signal to all hardware to ensure the hardware
is at a known starting state.  A warm boot doesn't.  For a cold reboot,
(power cycle) the keyboard's LEDs should flash letting you know it got
the reset.

I've had DSP modem card (dial-up) that would get hung, and a warm reboot
aka restart wouldn't cure it, but a cold boot with its reset got the
modem back into a known and usable state, so the drivers could then
communicate to the modem.

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#2985

On 2025-11-15, Java Jive wrote:
> In case it's helpful to anyone else ...
>
> I have some Dell Precision M6800s & M6700s dual-booting via Grub between 
> various versions of Windows and Ubuntu 24, all cabled to the LAN.  If I 
> choose to move between any version of Windows and Ubuntu by rebooting, 

Win10, 11 have that "FastBoot" thing that mucks with hardware releases
on "reboot" (win basically goes into hibernate).

Not sure if / how that'd work *between* windows versions (e.g. you had
both 10,11 installed) though ... 


-- 
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1  E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

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#2987

On 2025-11-15 17:27, Dan Purgert wrote:
> On 2025-11-15, Java Jive wrote:
>> In case it's helpful to anyone else ...
>>
>> I have some Dell Precision M6800s & M6700s dual-booting via Grub between
>> various versions of Windows and Ubuntu 24, all cabled to the LAN.  If I
>> choose to move between any version of Windows and Ubuntu by rebooting,
> 
> Win10, 11 have that "FastBoot" thing that mucks with hardware releases
> on "reboot" (win basically goes into hibernate).
> 
> Not sure if / how that'd work *between* windows versions (e.g. you had
> both 10,11 installed) though ...

And I've disabled it anyway, because it's not compatible with using 
imaging software to back up the OS.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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#2991

Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:

> Win10, 11 have that "FastBoot" thing that mucks with hardware releases
> on "reboot" (win basically goes into hibernate).

No. Reboot is always reboot, Windows would be completely useless without
that. "FastBoot" aka fast startup happens when shutting down if not
disabled. And it's hibernate without hibernating apps so fairly useless.

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#2993

Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:

> Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
> 
>> Win10, 11 have that "FastBoot" thing that mucks with hardware releases
>> on "reboot" (win basically goes into hibernate).
> 
> No. Reboot is always reboot, Windows would be completely useless without
> that. "FastBoot" aka fast startup happens when shutting down if not
> disabled. And it's hibernate without hibernating apps so fairly useless.

Actually Fast Starup is a full hibernate (all memory copied into the
hyberfil.sys file).  The computer then goes into sleep mode.  When
brought out of sleep, the computer resumes from sleep.  If, however, the
computer ever lost power during sleep, the computer resumes using the
hibernate file.  Because a memory image is reinstated or resumed from a
Fast Startup mode, there is no re-initialization of hardware.  This is
the same as a Windows restart which is a warm boot.

Fast Startup causes problems with hardware, because the hardware is not
sent a reset signal to ensure it is initialized to a known initial
state.  A restart using Fast Startup will not fix hardware problems
caused by hardware getting into a state the devs did not plan upon in
their driver, or their driver simply cannot perform an initialize the
way the hardware was designed.  Even using hibernate mode without Fast
Startup can prevent troubleshooting problems when booting the OS,
because the memory image gets restored, and you don't want that when
troubleshooting.  You don't want to get back to the state that had
problems, but load a new memory image.

Fast Startup can be enabled or disabled by itself.  If hibernate mode is
disabled, so is Fast Startup.  If you have an SSD for the OS partitions,
Fast Startup provides little assist in shortening cold boot (which only
happens if the computer lost power during sleep).  Fast Startup can make
it impossible to get at the boot menu, because Fast Startup begins so
quickly that keyboard input is ignored, and you cannot get the boot menu
to, say, elect to boot from a CD or USB drive instead of the BIOS
configured primary boot device.  Fast Startup was intended for use with
old slow computer, especially those still using HDDs.

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#2995

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> writes:

> Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:
>
>> Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
>> 
>>> Win10, 11 have that "FastBoot" thing that mucks with hardware releases
>>> on "reboot" (win basically goes into hibernate).
>> 
>> No. Reboot is always reboot, Windows would be completely useless without
>> that. "FastBoot" aka fast startup happens when shutting down if not
>> disabled. And it's hibernate without hibernating apps so fairly useless.
>
> Actually Fast Starup is a full hibernate (all memory copied into the
> hyberfil.sys file).

Source? For example here:
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/weg/delivering-a-great-startup-and-shutdown-experience
"Starting with Windows 8.x, the default shutdown and restart scenario
has been updated and named fast startup. Fast startup begins with the
shutdown process and includes writing data to disk similar to the
hibernate process. A key difference is that all user sessions (Session
1) are logged off and the remaining information is written to the
hiberfile."

When user sessions are logged off, all user apps die and so aren't
written to the hiberfil.sys, which, as I stated, makes this "fast
startup" fairly useless.

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#2997 — Disable FastBoot (was: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24)

Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> writes:
> 
>> Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:
>>
>>> Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
>>> 
>>>> Win10, 11 have that "FastBoot" thing that mucks with hardware releases
>>>> on "reboot" (win basically goes into hibernate).
>>> 
>>> No. Reboot is always reboot, Windows would be completely useless without
>>> that. "FastBoot" aka fast startup happens when shutting down if not
>>> disabled. And it's hibernate without hibernating apps so fairly useless.
>>
>> Actually Fast Starup is a full hibernate (all memory copied into the
>> hyberfil.sys file).
> 
> Source? For example here:
> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/weg/delivering-a-great-startup-and-shutdown-experience
> "Starting with Windows 8.x, the default shutdown and restart scenario
> has been updated and named fast startup. Fast startup begins with the
> shutdown process and includes writing data to disk similar to the
> hibernate process. A key difference is that all user sessions (Session
> 1) are logged off and the remaining information is written to the
> hiberfile."
> 
> When user sessions are logged off, all user apps die and so aren't
> written to the hiberfil.sys, which, as I stated, makes this "fast
> startup" fairly useless.

Depends on whether or not you chose to sleep (whether manually
instigated, or by idle timeout) or shutdown while Fast Startup (aka
FastBoot) was enabled.

On sleep, Fast Startup saves an image of memory into the hiberfil.sys
file.  That's in case power is lost during sleep which means a reboot is
needed, so the hiberfil.sys file is used to write back the memory image
on the boot.  If power is not lost during sleep mode, well, you just
resume out of sleep mode.

On shutdown, yep, you chose to exit your Windows session(s), but the
reboot will still use the hiberfil.sys file to get more quickly get back
to the logon state.  Fast Startup does not alter that a shutdown logs
you out.  Fast Startup with shutdown does not waste the time nor disk
space to write a hiberfil.sys file to record your Windows session.  With
Fast Startup enabled, it saves a memory image only for the OS kernel and
drivers.  The point of Fast Startup aka FastBoot is to get Windows
booted faster, not restore your Windows session(s).  You get to the
logon screen faster.  It is Fast*Boot*.  Not FastSessionRestore.

Perhaps I wasn't clear.  Saving "all memory" into the hiber file is not
while you have a Windows session.  It is at the point of the logon
screen to reload a memory image for that state instead of having to wait
for the kernel to load, all drivers to load, all services to start, etc.

Fast Startup may speed up booting, but it slows shutdown.  When the
computer goes into sleep mode, you don't notice the writes to
hiberfil.sys.  Users are more sensitive to how long it takes them to
resume using Windows, because they're waiting there staring at the
monitor.  They are less sensitive to what happens going to sleep, or
during shutdown, because typically they leave, so they are not waiting.
Faster startup, slower shutdown.

If you slept your computer (manually instigated, or by idle timeout),
you can exit sleep mode to get back into your Windows session assuming
the computer never lost power.  If power was lost during sleep, yes,
Fast Startup gets you more quickly up to the logon screen, because the
kernel, driver, and services were reinstated from the memory image, not
from having to load them from scratch.

If you hibernated (manually instigated, or by timeout), that should be a
regular hibernate, so you resume your Windows session when you boot.

If you shutdown, why would you expect your Windows session(s) to get
saved?  

If you lost power to the computer while in a Windows session (i.e., not
sleeping), how could anything no longer running still write into the
hiber file to restore a Windows session that was nuked by a power
outage?

FastBoot (aka Fast Startup) is for faster booting, not for Windows
session resume.  Use sleep mode to resume Windows sessions, and hope
your computer doesn't lose power while sleeping.  If power is lost while
sleeping, Fast*Boot* gets to the logon screen faster.

With SSDs, especially with m.2 NVMe SSDs, getting much more common for
the OS disk, FastBoot provides little in a faster boot time, but causes
lots of headaches when troubleshooting.  I suspect FastBoot will
eventually fade away (get deprecated), like how ReadyBoost has faded
away (using USB flash drives or SD cards to add a faster drive-to-RAM
cache for HDDs despite HDDs already have a small cache, but ReadyBoost
could never be as fast as adding more real RAM).  ReadyBoost was
oriented to old computers still using HDDs for the OS disks.  FastBoot
was oriented toward old and slow computers.  Little point using either
today with typically larger RAM configs, and with SSDs, especially
NVMEs, replacing HDDs.

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#3001 — Re: Disable FastBoot

VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
> Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:
> 
> > VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> writes:
> > 
> >> Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
> >>> 
> >>>> Win10, 11 have that "FastBoot" thing that mucks with hardware releases
> >>>> on "reboot" (win basically goes into hibernate).
> >>> 
> >>> No. Reboot is always reboot, Windows would be completely useless without
> >>> that. "FastBoot" aka fast startup happens when shutting down if not
> >>> disabled. And it's hibernate without hibernating apps so fairly useless.
> >>
> >> Actually Fast Starup is a full hibernate (all memory copied into the
> >> hyberfil.sys file).
> > 
> > Source? For example here:
> > https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/weg/delivering-a-great-startup-and-shutdown-experience
> > "Starting with Windows 8.x, the default shutdown and restart scenario
> > has been updated and named fast startup. Fast startup begins with the
> > shutdown process and includes writing data to disk similar to the
> > hibernate process. A key difference is that all user sessions (Session
> > 1) are logged off and the remaining information is written to the
> > hiberfile."
> > 
> > When user sessions are logged off, all user apps die and so aren't
> > written to the hiberfil.sys, which, as I stated, makes this "fast
> > startup" fairly useless.
> 
> Depends on whether or not you chose to sleep (whether manually
> instigated, or by idle timeout) or shutdown while Fast Startup (aka
> FastBoot) was enabled.

[Fast Startup doesn't affect 'sleep'. See more below.]

> On sleep, Fast Startup saves an image of memory into the hiberfil.sys
> file.  That's in case power is lost during sleep which means a reboot is
> needed, so the hiberfil.sys file is used to write back the memory image
> on the boot.  If power is not lost during sleep mode, well, you just
> resume out of sleep mode.

  With "On sleep", you probably mean on Shutdown, because when Fast
Startup is enabled, it only affects, what happens during shutdown
(does a hibernate  of the OS, not the user session, etc.) and what
happens during boot/power-up (resumes from the hibernated system copy),
it does not affect what happens during sleep.

  Also the "That's in case power is lost during sleep" is misleading,
because that's not the/a reason for Fast Startup, I even doubt that Fast
Startup will use the hibernated system copy when rebooting/powering-on
after a power loss, because  the system might have been changed since
the time of the *previous* shutdown, so the hibernated system copy might
be stale/invalid.

[Much more of the same, IMO also not fully correct, deleted.]

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#3012 — Re: Disable FastBoot

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> writes:

> [Much more of the same, IMO also not fully correct, deleted.]

Thanks. I thought about responding again to VanguardLH but sheesh.

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#3003 — Re: Disable FastBoot

On 2025-11-17 13:19, VanguardLH wrote:
> Fast Startup may speed up booting, but it slows shutdown.  When the
> computer goes into sleep mode, you don't notice the writes to
> hiberfil.sys.  Users are more sensitive to how long it takes them to
> resume using Windows, because they're waiting there staring at the
> monitor.  They are less sensitive to what happens going to sleep, or
> during shutdown, because typically they leave, so they are not waiting.
> Faster startup, slower shutdown.

But sometimes it fails to power down.

Once, in the airport queue for security, I noticed a lady with the 
laptop lid closed, but still powered up. I told her. She then tried to 
power it off, failed, and in despair, took again her place in the queue.

Long ago, I had that situation, laptop that would not finally power down 
and the battery ran out. I do not remember the cause.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#3007 — Re: Disable FastBoot

On Mon, 17 Nov 2025 19:24:39 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Long ago, I had that situation, laptop that would not finally power down 
> and the battery ran out. I do not remember the cause.

You were running Windows.

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#3009 — Re: Disable FastBoot

On 2025-11-18 05:44, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2025 19:24:39 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> Long ago, I had that situation, laptop that would not finally power down
>> and the battery ran out. I do not remember the cause.
> 
> You were running Windows.

At that moment, yes.

Linux has also been known to do something similar, except that it goes 
through the motions of saving the hibernation image, only that at the 
last instant the power off fails.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#2998

On Mon, 11/17/2025 5:14 AM, Anssi Saari wrote:
> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> writes:
> 
>> Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:
>>
>>> Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> Win10, 11 have that "FastBoot" thing that mucks with hardware releases
>>>> on "reboot" (win basically goes into hibernate).
>>>
>>> No. Reboot is always reboot, Windows would be completely useless without
>>> that. "FastBoot" aka fast startup happens when shutting down if not
>>> disabled. And it's hibernate without hibernating apps so fairly useless.
>>
>> Actually Fast Starup is a full hibernate (all memory copied into the
>> hyberfil.sys file).
> 
> Source? For example here:
> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/weg/delivering-a-great-startup-and-shutdown-experience
> "Starting with Windows 8.x, the default shutdown and restart scenario
> has been updated and named fast startup. Fast startup begins with the
> shutdown process and includes writing data to disk similar to the
> hibernate process. A key difference is that all user sessions (Session
> 1) are logged off and the remaining information is written to the
> hiberfile."
> 
> When user sessions are logged off, all user apps die and so aren't
> written to the hiberfil.sys, which, as I stated, makes this "fast
> startup" fairly useless.
> 

Fast startup changes the start from maybe 15 seconds to 5 seconds (fast machine).
It is intended to get that screen lit up quickly, to impress your friends.
(Some people have boot contests, and they would like this.)

If used to be, you got a fast boot time, by owning a "mighty" processor.
That was the purpose of the boot contest, was to show how you must
have spent a lot of money on the machine. Fast start allows you to cheat.

It's Windows kernel+drivers hibernation, the session is not saved.

During the five second boot, the blob is read in from hiberfil.sys,
and the drivers are warm started (data arrays initialized). If any
new hardware was plugged in, it will eventually be discovered (perhaps
after the desktop has been painted).

But Fast Boot is also a "handcuffs", as it prevents multi-boot.

   Paul

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#3006

Restoring all groups. Or I will miss some messages to reply to.

On 2025-11-18 00:41, Windows Elf wrote:
> On 17/11/2025 10:14, Anssi Saari wrote:
>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> writes:
>>
>>> Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Win10, 11 have that "FastBoot" thing that mucks with hardware releases
>>>>> on "reboot" (win basically goes into hibernate).
>>>>
>>>> No. Reboot is always reboot, Windows would be completely useless without
>>>> that. "FastBoot" aka fast startup happens when shutting down if not
>>>> disabled. And it's hibernate without hibernating apps so fairly useless.
>>>
>>> Actually Fast Starup is a full hibernate (all memory copied into the
>>> hyberfil.sys file).
>>
>> Source? For example here:
>> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/weg/delivering-a-great-startup-and-shutdown-experience
>> "Starting with Windows 8.x, the default shutdown and restart scenario
>> has been updated and named fast startup. Fast startup begins with the
>> shutdown process and includes writing data to disk similar to the
>> hibernate process. A key difference is that all user sessions (Session
>> 1) are logged off and the remaining information is written to the
>> hiberfile."
>>
>> When user sessions are logged off, all user apps die and so aren't
>> written to the hiberfil.sys, which, as I stated, makes this "fast
>> startup" fairly useless.
> 
> If you think hiberfil.sys is useless, why not disable it? Use this
> command as an administrator:
> 
>    powercfg.exe /hibernate off.
> 
> Restart the machine and see if it makes any difference.
> 
> Personally, I find fast startup useful on an old machine, but some
> people prefer to start afresh while they make a cup of coffee!

Fast boot is not compatible with double booting.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#2996

On 2025-11-16 03:18, VanguardLH wrote:
> Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:
> 
>> Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
>>
>>> Win10, 11 have that "FastBoot" thing that mucks with hardware releases
>>> on "reboot" (win basically goes into hibernate).
>>
>> No. Reboot is always reboot, Windows would be completely useless without
>> that. "FastBoot" aka fast startup happens when shutting down if not
>> disabled. And it's hibernate without hibernating apps so fairly useless.
> 
> Actually Fast Starup is a full hibernate (all memory copied into the
> hyberfil.sys file).  The computer then goes into sleep mode.  When
> brought out of sleep, the computer resumes from sleep.  If, however, the
> computer ever lost power during sleep, the computer resumes using the
> hibernate file.  Because a memory image is reinstated or resumed from a
> Fast Startup mode, there is no re-initialization of hardware.  This is
> the same as a Windows restart which is a warm boot.

No, hardware has to be reinitialized "somehow". Hardware has been 
powered off, they have to be put back in the same status as they were 
when the machine hibernated. The driver needs adequate entries to 
restore status.



-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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