Groups > alt.comp.microsoft.windows > #742 > unrolled thread

If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?

Started by	Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com>
First post	2020-11-23 19:14 +0000
Last post	2020-11-30 00:46 +0000
Articles	20 on this page of 41 — 13 participants

Back to article view | Back to alt.comp.microsoft.windows

Page 2 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 Next page →

#773

From	Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com>
Date	2020-11-26 06:30 -0700
Message-ID	<i29p0fFfbusU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#768

On 11/25/2020 5:48 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
> On 2020-11-25, Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> wrote:
>> HELPFUL HINT: I've been pulling up the printer menus so much that this
> 
> HELPFUL HINT: Take your stinking bullet points and shove them up your ass.
> 
> I thought I killfiled you, jerk, but apparently you engage in nymshifting
> as well. No surprise there. People like you are nothing more than disgusting
> filth.

Most trolls nymshift often. It's one of the marks of a troll. They do it 
to escape our killfiles. The troll Arlen Holder has already done it 
multiple times.

But it's no big deal. It's quick and easy to killfile the new nym.

-- 
Ken

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#775

From	Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com>
Date	2020-11-26 16:59 +0000
Message-ID	<rpomu0$n8g$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#773

On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 06:30:55 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

> Most trolls nymshift often. It's one of the marks of a troll. They do it 
> to escape our killfiles. The troll Arlen Holder has already done it 
> multiple times.
> 
> But it's no big deal. It's quick and easy to killfile the new nym.

I find it illustrating that this well-known worthless piece of shit 
troll simply made this up. And then the other trolls followed suit.

They're too stupid to even realize I haven't changed a thing!

Yup.
o I repeat: I didn't change a thing.

We already _knew_ these were well-known trolls
o None have _ever_ added _any_ value to this newsgroup in its history

Think about that fact.
o Not one of them has _ever_ authored a thread of any value to this ng

In the entire history of Usenet!

And yet, all they _can_ do, is fabricate a nymshift that never happened.
o Worse, they complain that this imaginary nymshift they can't deal with

Can anyone prove to be more moronic than these well-known trolls just did?
o And then you have the moron Frank Slootweg essentially high fiving them.

Just as he does with Snit.

Roger Blake
o Path: doubletreewisp!news.alt.net!xmission!news.snarked.org!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.iecc.com!suck
o From: Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid>
o Message-ID: <20201125194609@news.eternal-september.org>
o Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 00:48:25 -0000 (UTC)

Bob Eager
o Path: doubletreewisp!alphared!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
o From: Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx>
o Message-ID: <i28i6gFcm9U1@mid.individual.net>
o Date: 26 Nov 2020 02:28:32 GMT

Ken Blake
o Path: doubletreewisp!news.mixmin.net!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!lilly.ping.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
o From: Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com>
o Message-ID: <i29p0fFfbusU1@mid.individual.net>
o Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 06:30:55 -0700
-- 
What's petrifying is not that these trolls exist; but that they outnumber us when we vote.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#778

From	Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no>
Date	2020-11-26 10:42 -0800
Message-ID	<rposvi$6tb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#775

On 2020-11-26 8:59 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 06:30:55 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
> 
>> Most trolls nymshift often. It's one of the marks of a troll. They do it
>> to escape our killfiles. The troll Arlen Holder has already done it
>> multiple times.
>>
>> But it's no big deal. It's quick and easy to killfile the new nym.
> 
> I find it illustrating that this well-known worthless piece of shit
> troll simply made this up. And then the other trolls followed suit.
> 
> They're too stupid to even realize I haven't changed a thing!
Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net>
Arlen Holder <arlen.holder@wildcat.uuhec.net>
Arlen Holder <a%rlenh.older@no.spam.net>
Arlen H. Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net>
Arlen_Holder <a%rle%20nh.older@no.spam.net>
arlen michael holder <arlen_michael_holder@example.com>
arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com>
Arlen G. Holder <arlingholder@nospam.net>
Arlen George Holder <arlinggeorgeholder@nospam.net>
Arlen _ Holder <arlen_holder@nospam.edu>
Arlen G. Holder <arlen_g_holder@nospam.edu>
Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen.george@halder.edu>
Arlen Holder <arlen.george.holder@is.invalid>
Arlen Holder <arlenholder@anyexample.com>
Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com>
Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#777

From	Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date	2020-11-26 18:37 +0000
Message-ID	<rposkl$6m6$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#768

Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote:
> On 2020-11-25, Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> wrote:
>> HELPFUL HINT: I've been pulling up the printer menus so much that this
> 
> HELPFUL HINT: Take your stinking bullet points and shove them up your ass.
> 
> I thought I killfiled you, jerk, but apparently you engage in nymshifting
> as well. 

The only way to ensure you never see his posts is to use wildcards in the
kf. His name and email change regularly, but it's fairly easy to find an
appropriate filter. 

> No surprise there. People like you are nothing more than disgusting
> filth.
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#779

From	Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com>
Date	2020-11-26 23:00 +0000
Message-ID	<rppc2p$2bq8$1@neodome.net>
In reply to	#777

On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 18:37:09 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> The only way to ensure you never see his posts is to use wildcards in the
> kf. His name and email change regularly, but it's fairly easy to find an
> appropriate filter. 

Jesus Christ, Chris.

There's no love lost between you and me as I consider you an utter moron.
o You know this - as you get your head handed to you - you're that stupid.

Even so ... *how _stupid_ would you have to be to _miss_ my posts*?
o If it takes more than seconds to figure out my posts, you're an idiot.

Besides, they completely fabricated the whole thing anyway...
o As I haven't changed a damn thing.

Nothing.

Funny actually...
1. One sock fabricates a change that never happened...
2. And then whines that he can't filter out that which didn't change...
3. Then he brings in his next sock to complain of the same inability...

How freakin' stupid can these utter morons prove to be?
o Are they having a contest of who's even dumber than Alan Baker is?

Is it even possible for them to prove to be dumber than he?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#763

From	Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com>
Date	2020-11-25 10:31 +0000
Message-ID	<rplbpo$2vu$1@neodome.net>
In reply to	#742

UPDATE:

I printed from Android to the printer, but, I only figured out, 
after the fact, that it used an Internet server!
o <https://i.postimg.cc/2530Yc6X/printing10.jpg> It uses the Intenet! :(

Nonetheless, this is certainly "one way" to print (albeit not that good)
o <https://i.postimg.cc/DZJprj3b/printing08.jpg> PrintBot static printer
o <https://i.postimg.cc/wjqWfTdz/printing09.jpg> PDF > Open with PrintBot

Here's what I did on Android 10 to print a single page of a multi-page PDF
a. I printed a PDF file from my Moto G7 (Android 10)
b. To my circa 1999, HP LaserJet 2100tn printer on my LAN 
c. Where Android is over Wi-Fi & the HP is Ethernet'd to the router

Note:
A. The printer is on the same subnet as Android is, on my private LAN
B. The HP LaserJet 2100tn has no Wi-Fi hardware (nor Wi-Fi Direct)
C. The HP LaserJet 2100tn has USB input (but it is not connected to a PC)
D. I have no desire to use the Internet just to print on my own LAN
   (I did not disconnect the router from the net when running this test)

I found out only after I printed that this uses the Internet! :(
o Nonetheless, so others benefit, here's the process I used that worked.

1. Download & install Printbot, by https://zenofx.com/
   <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.jsecurity.printbot>
   <https://zenofx.com/printbot/>

2. Turn off all "print services" _except_ "PrintBot" (if you have others).
   NOTE: I don't know if this is needed; but HP instructions say it is.

3. In PrintBot, hit the settings hamburger & then "Add static printer"
   o Protocol = Raw(JetDirect) [out of Raw(JetDirect), LPR, IPP, & Fritz!Box]
   o Host (IP address or hostname) = 192.168.0.20
   o Manufacturer = (scroll to the "HP" pre-defined setting)
   o Printer model = (scroll to the "LaserJet-2100" pre-defined setting)
   <https://i.postimg.cc/DZJprj3b/printing08.jpg>

4. That creates the following "PrintBot Settings":
   o Network connection = raw://192.168.0.20/
   o Printer = HP LaserJet-2100
     Press "Print test page" (and a ZenoFX test page should result).

5. Select any document on the Android phone to print to that printer
   I selected a multi-page PDF file, for example, named "foo.pdf".

   This foo.pdf file will either open up in your default editor, or, 
   if you don't have a default PDF editor set up in Android, 
   then Android will ask you what you want to do with the file.

   You can choose to "Open with PrintBot" & press the green printer icon.
   If desired, before printing, you can modify the default settings, such as:
   o Set Copies = 1
   o Set Paper size = Letter
   o Set Color = Black & White
   o Set Orientation = Portrait
   o Set Two-sided = none (mine is grayed out as the printer doesn't support it)
   o Set Page = All 4 (I changed that to print the range of just page 1)
     <https://i.postimg.cc/wjqWfTdz/printing09.jpg>

6. The _first_ time only (I think), it will give you this warning:
   "Use PrintBot? Your document may pass through one or more servers
    on its way to the printer." [Cancel][OK]
    <https://i.postimg.cc/2530Yc6X/printing10.jpg>

   I only saw that the first time printing though.

Googling for what that warning means, I found the first gotcha:
 <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.jsecurity.printbot>
 "Free version allows printing of 3 images or PDF documents per month
 (after that, a watermark is added on each page). 
 PDFs are restricted to 3 pages.
 Pro version allows unlimited printing."

That also imples the second gotcha, which is this method uses the net!

Notice that the same outfit has a "localprint" app which does NOT use
the Internet (so I will test that app next; but it adds watermarks).
o LocalPrint, by zenofx.com
  <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zenofx.localprint>
     
LocalPrint says this, which PrintBot does _not_ say:
 "LocalPrint allows you to print from your Android device 
  without using any kind of cloud service! 
  All data stays within your local network all the time."

In summary, this test turned out to be a failure for two reasons:
1. Unbeknownst to me, it used the Internet
2. Even so, after a while, watermarks will appear

Nonetheless, this test was a proof of concept that the hardware works.
o I'll keep testing until I find a local solution that works.
-- 
See also:
o If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/c/6ScU1H5Q43U>
o How do you print from Android to your home networked printer on your LAN?
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/nTAYljkvVl4>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/zD0CDJZz/printing01.jpg> Android10 ConnectionPrefs
o <https://i.postimg.cc/xdvmwQ3S/printing02.jpg> ConnectionPrefs > Printing
o <https://i.postimg.cc/PxdDh7Sv/printing03.jpg> Search > Print > Services
o <https://i.postimg.cc/pTkFdBSG/printing04.jpg> ? > Print > Documentation
o <https://i.postimg.cc/5N8c5d9T/printing05.jpg> Added free IPP print apps
o <https://i.postimg.cc/Y9TVg85t/printing06.jpg> 11 print services on
o <https://i.postimg.cc/FzmF5wYr/printing07.jpg> Shortcut to print settings
o <https://i.postimg.cc/DZJprj3b/printing08.jpg> PrintBot static printer
o <https://i.postimg.cc/wjqWfTdz/printing09.jpg> PDF > Open with PrintBot
o <https://i.postimg.cc/2530Yc6X/printing10.jpg> What is this warning???

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#771

From	Michael Logies <logies@t-online.de>
Date	2020-11-26 09:46 +0100
Message-ID	<foqurf5d17ggd6m7c7rnuh2pf74gj456li@4ax.com>
In reply to	#742

On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:14:13 -0000 (UTC), Arlen   Holder
<arlen_holder@newmachines.com> wrote:

>I need help with printing to a printer that Windows 10 has no problem
>printing to, where I ask here in the hope someone here solved the problem.

Do a google search for: printing android windows
First article:
https://www.howtogeek.com/165778/everything-you-need-to-know-about-printing-from-your-android-phone-or-tablet/
Everything You Need to Know About Printing From Your Android Phone or
Tablet

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#776

From	Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com>
Date	2020-11-26 18:37 +0000
Message-ID	<rposlm$10j$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to	#771

On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 09:46:25 +0100, Michael Logies wrote:

> Do a google search for: printing android windows
> First article:
> https://www.howtogeek.com/165778/everything-you-need-to-know-about-printing-from-your-android-phone-or-tablet/
> Everything You Need to Know About Printing From Your Android Phone or
> Tablet

Hi Michael Logies,

I thank you very much for your purposefully helpful advice!
o Not only for me, but for _everyone_ who wishes to do the same thing.

I've been able to print - but not yet without using the Internet:
o Nor, yet, for free <https://i.postimg.cc/DZJprj3b/printing08.jpg>

All of us should be able to freely print from Android to our printer (IMHO)
o But I haven't yet found a solution that works given the requirements of
... unlimited free printing on my own LAN to an Ethernet'd printer ...

You'd think that would be an _easy_ problem set to resolve...
o But it's not (or it's not yet since we haven't found a solution).

I'm still digging into the many proposed solutions I've found, so I haven't
exhausted the "easy" solutions yet though - but I have exhausted the
tutorials on the net - where I haven't found a single cite that is
"Everything you need to know about printing from Android" on your own LAN.

Bear in mind _most_ of these tutorials assume _different_ conditions
o Some use the Internet (e.g., most payware seems to be doing that)
o Some assume a CUPS server (usually on Linux, but maybe on Windows)
o Most assume Wi-Fi (and/or Wi-Fi Direct)
etc.

I haven't seen any tutorials that use the fact Windows can print to the
Ethernet'd printer (meaning Windows has the necessary printer drivers);
but that "may" be the solution (perhaps via its SMB/CIFS or CUPS server).

Notice that if the problem were easy to solve - I wouldn't be asking.

This problem may certainly turn out to be easy to solve (as many problems
are); but it's not easy to _find_ the solution to this problem on the net.

Rest assured, you can trust that I've scoured the Internet for a tutorial.

In fact, I read that exact tutorial days ago & even posted it here:
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/nTAYljkvVl4/m/NsnpkXBoBwAJ>

Here is a quote of my one-line summary of that specific article.
"This article pretty much says it can't be done for free without using the
Google cloud to print from your Android phone to a printer on your own LAN:
o Everything You Need to Know About Printing From Your Android Phone or Tablet
<https://www.howtogeek.com/165778/everything-you-need-to-know-about-printing-from-your-android-phone-or-tablet/>

Bear in mind we can _easily_ solve the problem by relaxing the constraints:
a. If we want to _pay_ for printing, that will work
b. If we want to use the cloud for printing, that will work
c. If we purchase a new Wi-Fi printer, that will work

But I'm trying to find a solution that works for an Ethernet'd printer.
o Keeping everything on my own LAN, and for free

In summary, nobody yet seems to have solved this problem and documented the
solution that I can find - although I can't imagine that almost anyone with
Android and an Ethernet'd printer wouldn't _benefit_ from the solution.

Since I need to dig deeper, I have to figure out _how_ printing actually
works, e.g., does Android need the printer drivers or not?

And why do we need something called a "printer server" anyway?

If people on this newsgroup know how printing normally works, that would be
helpful because then I'd know better where to focus on solving the
problems.

Is this "printer flow" correct, for example, for Windows?
1. The document to be printed is open in an editor on Windows.
2. The editor's "File > Print" sends the file to a "printer driver"
(what format is that in? I don't know.)
3. The printer driver reassembles the format into a printer format.
4. The printer driver sends that printer-format-file over the LAN
(the network is just a printer IP address, and a port, I guess???)
5. The printer prints

Notice I don't mention a "print server" in that process; but everything I
read on Linux solutions seems to require a "CUPS print server"????

So is _this_ how printing works on Linux?
1. The document is open in an editor on Linux
2. That editor has a "file > print" which sends it to a CUPS server???
3. The CUPS server acts as a universal printer driver????
4. The CUPS server sends a printer-format file to the printer over the LAN
(the network is just the printer IP address and port 631 for CUPS???)

Note that I bring up Linux simply because Android is kind of sort of Linux.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/6qRSK6WY/printing11.jpg>

These linx-based solutions all seem to use port 631 for some reason:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/9fMnMYX4/printing12.jpg>

Unfortunately, I never needed to understand the print process on Windows
(or Linux) simply because it just worked with a printer driver.

But if I'm going to be the first person to solve this problem (that we know
of), then I'm gonna have to figure out where exactly the problem lies.
a. In the printer driver?
b. In the printer server?
c. On the network?

Dunno yet.
o Does anyone?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#794

From	Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com>
Date	2020-11-28 20:09 +0000
Message-ID	<rpuapm$9iq$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to	#776

On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 14:08:15 +0100, Michael Logies wrote:

> the help of my phone (Xiaomi Mi 8) tells me, that for printing it has
> to be a Wifi printer. My printer are Wifi-capable, so I have no
> problem printing to them from Android. 

Hi Michael Logies,

I very much appreciate your kind volunteer advice, as Usenet is how we,
together, solve problems, given none of us are trained in this stuff.

And none of us are paid to help each other.
o Worse, even if we were... we're all amateurs at printing technology

At least I am... (when things just work, we don't learn anything)

Hence Usenet is how we solve things, and, better yet, how we disseminate
the solutions, since we can then help everyone else with the same issues.

Yes. You are correct that if the HP LaserJet 2100tn were a "Wi-Fi capable"
printer (either Wi-Fi or Wi-Fi Direct), then it would most likely be simple
to print from Android to that printer. 

Yet, the printer is on the LAN (via Ethernet on CAT5 cable), and, to the
point of this newsgroup, it prints just fine from Windows.

Interestingly, Windows needs something called a "printer driver".
o I don't know why Android doesn't seem to use printer drivers

What's confusing to me is that I never even once had thought about how
Android printing must be completely different (in some way) than Windows
printing.
a. In Windows, you install a printer driver for each printer
b. On Android, it doesn't seem to work that way (at least AFAICT)

> As I understand, the printer
> and the device have to support Cups, the linux standard way of
> printing. Because Android is a Linux flavor, Cups is integrated. And
> modern printer also support Cups.

I must openly admit that I only recently looked up what CUPS means, as, on
Android, they do have a CUPS "print service" that I installed.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/6qRSK6WY/printing11.jpg>

But that requires, apparently, a "CUPS Print Server" which I don't have:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/9fMnMYX4/printing12.jpg> 

I'm very confused why Windows doesn't seem to need a "print server" 
o Yet, Android seems to need a "print server"

Windows just needs a "printer driver".
o Yet Android doesn't even use printer drivers.

It's confusing to me _how_ printing actually works when it doesn't work.

> If your printer does not support Cups, I would print to a pdf on
> Android, transfer it to the windows machine and print it from there to
> the Windows printer.

Actually, early this morning, I found a solution that works perfectly.
o It's still "magic" _how_ it works (I need help on that); but it works!

1. On Android, I installed a "print server" which outputs PDF level 1.3
   <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackspruce.lpd>
2. But my printer doesn't accept PDF - my printer wants PCL-5 instead
   <https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-laserjet-2100-printer-series/25469/model/14918>
3. So I added a muPDF "faux printer driver" to "render" the PDF to a bitmap
   <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackspruce.mupdf>

Somehow, the _combination_ (with judicious settings applied) converts the
PDF to a bitmap and by some magic, then to PCL-5, which is then sent to the
printer via the Android "print server".
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/nTAYljkvVl4/m/qnuazdahCAAJ>

I do not profess nor pretend to know _how_ it works; but it works.
o I must say this is documented NOWHERE on the entire Internet (AFAICT).

So I may be the first person on the planet who has documented it here.
o Where it took hours of trial & error (particularly on the many settings)

Now that it works, I need someone to help EXPLAIN _how_ it is working
o Because at this point, it's just "print magic" to me that it's working

Especially since all the other solutions I tried turned out to be scams
o Or cloud services, or watermarked crippleware, or bogus in some way

In summary, I solved the problem set of printing from Android 
o For free, ad free, gsf-free, google free, Windows-free, Linux-free
o Over the Wi-Fi LAN 
o To a non-Wi-Fi Ethernet'd HP LJ 2100tn printer (built in 1999)
o Keeping everything on the LAN (i.e., no cloud involved)
o For unlimited printing (sans prevalent watermarking crippleware)
o From any Android device that I want at any time I want
o As long as both the Android device & the printer are on the same subnet

How it works is what I want to know, where I think the file conversions are
o PDF on Android to bitmap on Android to PCL-5 on Android to the printer

What I need help with is understanding why printing from Windows is easy
o And yet, printing from Android to the same printer is not

Why, for example, does Windows use a "printer driver" but Android does not?
o Why, for example, does Android use a "print server" but Windows does not? 
-- 
On Usenet we can solve problems that nobody else seems to have resolved.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#796

From	Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com>
Date	2020-11-29 02:15 +0000
Message-ID	<rpv073$2p5i$1@neodome.net>
In reply to	#794

On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 09:22:17 GMT, AnthonyL wrote:

> Just did a nice helpful reply - actually I think there are one or two
> clues that may have helped - then saw the other thread in which you've
> solved it.

Hi AnthonyL,

I thank you and appreciate your purposefully helpful advice.
o All of us are volunteers - we pitch in together to help each other

As you noted, printing has gotten easier over time, at least from Windows &
Linux it has, where Linux (with CUPS) was even easier than Windows years
ago; but both are seamless nowadays (although Windows drivers are a PITA
when HP no longer supplies them on their web site, & neither does Win10):
o Tutorial for the EASIEST (maybe only?) way to install a problematic legacy printer such as the HP LaserJet 2100 on Windows 10 current versions
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/Qb-fXNOH_8g>

Also as you noted, the only requirement for the printer "should" be that
it's on the LAN (no matter _how_ it's hooked up to that LAN subnet).

(1) Cloud solutions
Like you, I found out a lot of the highly marketed solutions require the
cloud, which is, I think, this data flow (I'm not fully sure though)
a. You press a print button which sends your document to a server
b. That server renders that document in the proper format (e.g., PCL-5)
c. That server sends the rendered results (e.g., PCL-5) back to you
d. And then your app sends that PCL-5 to the printer over your LAN

(2) Local PDF solutions
I also found a bunch of so-called "local" solutions, which didn't render
all that much it seems; they just send the PDF directly to the printer,
which would work fine (I guess) for a printer that directly accepts PDF.

(3) OEM Brand-name solutions (e.g., HP, Epsom, Brother, etc.)
I tried the OEM HP-branded solution, but it simply failed for whatever
reason. It only had the choice of Wi-Fi or Wi-Fi direct, so I suspect that
it failed simply because it was designed for a Wi-Fi enabled printer only.

(4) Mopria solutions
I tried a bunch of these until I realized that they're _all_ scams
(AFAICT), since Android _already_ comes, native, with a "Mopria" print
server (as its default print server). Even so, they can't work, I think,
simply because my printer, built in 1999, isn't Mopria compliant.

(5) CUPS Server solutions
I only halfheartedly tried the "CUPS Server" solutions, in that I installed
them on my phone; but they seem to require a cups server somewhere, where I
couldn't find CUPS software for Windows (I found it for Linux). While I
dual boot, it's more often in Windows than it's in Linux, so that's not a
good solution for me unless it was the only way to do it (and it wasn't).

(6) Windows SMB shares solutions
I contacted the Windows newsgroup asking for sharing solutions, but none
were forthcoming, and, besides, it turns out I didn't need to go this far
(although I would have had I not found another solution). It's strange
though, that Windows 10 prints just fine, and Android is so difficult, but,
if you were to ask me today, I could get you up and running in minutes just
because I now know how to do it and I didn't know then.

(7) Windows USB shares solutions
As with the SMB shares, I didn't explore directly connected computers,
although others who posted to the thread claimed they work just fine.

(8) There was only one solution (so far) that actually worked!
This solution turned out to be, as many tend to be, devilishly simple!
o Note: I almost never fail, if ever, in solving technical problems.

*How to print from Android to an Ethernet-only HP PCL-5 printer on your LAN*
a. On Android, I installed a "print server" which outputs PDF level 1.3
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackspruce.lpd>
b. But my printer doesn't accept PDF - my printer wants PCL-5 instead
<https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-laserjet-2100-printer-series/25469/model/14918>
c. So I added a muPDF "faux printer driver" to "render" the PDF to a bitmap
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackspruce.mupdf>

Somehow, the _combination_ (with judicious settings applied) converts the
PDF to a bitmap and by some magic, then to PCL-5, which is then sent to the
printer via the Android "print server".
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/nTAYljkvVl4/m/qnuazdahCAAJ>

I do not profess nor pretend to know _how_ it works; but it works.
o I must say this is documented NOWHERE on the entire Internet (AFAICT).

Since the main purpose of my posts once a problem is resolved is to
leverage that solution to others so that they don't have to go through the
hell I did, here are, physically, the steps that will solve this problem.

A. If necessary, figure out your printer's IP address on your LAN:
o Printer's IP address, by Alex Trishan
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.periphs.printers/c/Y-b186tFKTs>

B. Test that the Android device can connect to the printer's IP address:
AndroidTermux: ping 192.168.1.20

C. Determine if your printer can support PDF level 1.3
Note: I don't know programmatically how to determine this information,
but if you try to print from Let's Print Droid, it will pretty much
tell you that it needs Let's Print PDF in order to print PCL-5.

D. If your printer can't support PDF level 1.3 directly, then install
this "faux printer driver" which renders PDFs into bitmaps (I think):
o Let's Print PDF, by BlackSpruce (note it uses muPDF code)
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackspruce.mupdf>
Note: As always, this APK is free, ad free, cloud free, & google free.

E. Then install the companion "Let's Print Droid" print server APK
o Let's Print Droid, by BlackSpruce
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackspruce.lpd>
Note: As always, this APK is free, ad free, cloud free, & google free.

As a side note, I don't use Google Play as I don't ever use Google
products if I don't have to; so I use the Aurora Store, which is better.

F. After installing both programs, you have to also know a few more tricks
in terms of setting up the Let's Print Droid "print service".

I only found out these tricks by pure trial and error; so not only
is there likely a better way, but some of the tricks may be wrong.

a. The first is to disable Apple Bonjour mDNS scanning
(it simply doesn't work and just wastes your time overall)
b. Another is you need to "manually configure" the printer in LPD
(where I hit upon the settings below by almost sheer trial & error)
Printer Name: HP LJ 2100 tn <== this isn't critical
Protocol: RAW - Jet Direct <== there are 13 protocols to choose from
IP Address/Computer Name: 192.168.0.20 <== it's a static IP address
Port Number: 9100 <== this was the default, so I kept it that way
Queue/Share/Dir Name: DROID <== this was the default, which I kept
Page Description Language: PCL - HP-PCL5 Black/White <== 8 choices
c. You need to make sure Let's Print Droid is the _only_ print server
turned on in the Android Settings "Print Service" menu
(which you can easily make a shortcut to if you follow this thread)
o Creating quick-access shortcuts to any Android or App setting page
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/_1oTdgCIpkc>

Note: The "trial and error" choices for the "protocol" setting above are:
o LPR - Line Printer Remote
o RAW - Jet Direct
o SMB - Windows Shared Printer
o GCP - Google Cloud Print
o IPP - IPP/CUPS print server
o IPPS - IPP/CUPS SSL server
o HTTP - Web Server POST
o HTTPS - encrypted POST
o FILE - CIFS/SMB File drop
o FTP - File Transfer
o FTPS - File Transfer SSL
o SHARE - Share PDF with another app
o VIEW - View PDL with another app

Note: These are the trial & error Page Description Language (PDL) choices:
o RAW - image files not rendered to PDL
o Jpeg Image
o PCL - HP-PCL5 Black/White
o PCL-C - HP-PCL5-C Colour PCL
o PS - Postscript
o PDF - Portable Document Format
o PCL-XL - HP PCL 6 colour,b/w
o URF - Apple AirPrint Universal Raster

While there may be other settings that will likewise work, those are what
worked first for me given my Ethernet'd HP LaserJet 2100tn printer which is
connected by CAT5 cable directly to the SOHO router.

Note: I haven't yet tested anything but PDF files as I wanted to keep the
problem set as simple as possible while I'm setting it up & testing.

The printing process that worked first after the setup above was:
1. Tap the homescreen "Let's Print Droid" icon (which I renamed LPD)
2. Inside the "Let's Print Droid" app, tap the "Print A File" icon
3. In the resulting file browser navigate to your PDF file
4. That brings up not the PDF file, but the default print settings
5. Keep or change the print settings as desired, & press [Continue]

That's it.
o Every page of your PDF file to be printed will be rendered on your phone.
o Once all pages are rendered, they will then be sent to the printer
o Note that a huge PDF will consume a lot of your phone's memory
(My 64GB $100 Moto G7 has 4GB of memory so it didn't flinch yet.)

Key technical issues which remain to be resolved:
a. It would be nice to eliminate the Let's Print PDF renderer if possible
(This will likely take trial & error on the protocol settings.)
b. But mainly I need help from experts in figuring out what's going on!
(I need to better understand what's actually happening when I print.)
c. Is either of these two flows what is actually happening to the data?
PDF -> LetsPrintPDF -> bitmap -> LetsPrintDroid -> PCL5 -> printer
PDF -> LetsPrintPDF -> bitmap -> PCL5 -> LetsPrintDroid -> printer

See also this Google Group, apparently, for the Let's Print Droid app:
o <https://groups.google.com/g/lets-print-droid>
--
As always, please improve so all benefit from every action we take.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#797

From	Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com>
Date	2020-11-29 22:53 +0000
Message-ID	<rq18pg$14tc$1@neodome.net>
In reply to	#794

On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 14:59:21 +0100, Michael Logies wrote:

> if your printer is modern, it has a CUPS server included, 
> the CUPS client ist on Android. 

Hi Michael Logies,

Thank you for your purposefully helpful advice on the CUPS process
o None of us are paid to help each other so I appreciate your help.

You help out of your heart and that's what is great about Usenet!

THANK YOU for being the first to explain _how_ the CUPS process works!
o Almost all debugging _requires_ knowledge of _how_ the system works.

I had tried CUPS, and failed, but I didn't even know _how_ it worked!
o Thank you for explaining that process for us all.

If the CUPS client is on Android, then I _already_ have that installed.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/PxdDh7Sv/printing03.jpg> 

In fact, a CUPS client was the second approach I had tried (after Mopria):
o <https://i.postimg.cc/xdvmwQ3S/printing02.jpg> 

However, based on my search results, CUPS "seemed" to only reside on Linux
which is fine except my dual-boot desktops are mostly on Windows, and,
worse, I tried like hell to find a CUPS port to Windows.
o I found something for Windows called CUPSS but it seemed a dead end.

So I failed with CUPS; but if I had a step-by-step tutorial...
o I might not have failed (likewise if the CUPS setup were more intuitive).

> The CUPS client always converts to PDF or
> forwards a PDF to the CUPS server which converts it for the printer
> (like a driver on Windows) for its printing. 

Thank you for _explaining_ what the heck CUPS does as I read the Wikipedia
& still didn't understand in the least how it applied to Android printing.

Unfortunately, when I tried using CUPS, I could find no Android tutorial:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/6qRSK6WY/printing11.jpg> 

So when it got to this stage, I had no server to give the setup form:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/9fMnMYX4/printing12.jpg>

It needs a server:port of the format:
o <http://server.tld:631/printers/Print...

Certainly I "guessed" and gave it the printer's IP address:
o http://192.168.0.20:631

But that failed.
o And I gave up on CUPS as I didn't have any step-by-step tutorials.

Nor did I even understand what I was doing.
o Up until now, printing has "just worked"; and then you learn nothing.

> If the printer supports printing PDF natively, the CUPS server has 
> not to convert. I took my wisdom from:
> https://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/CUPS/ Funktionsweise von CUPS

My printer is a typical Hewlett Packard LaserJet 2100tn built in 1999:
o I really do not know what it supports, but I "think" it's only PCL-5.
  <http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/bpl13210>

o I don't see any mention of CUPS or PDF on its official web page:
o <https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-laserjet-2100-printer-series/25469/model/14918>

>>I'm very confused why Windows doesn't seem to need a "print server" 
>>o Yet, Android seems to need a "print server"
> 
> The situation on Window is similiar, I think. You have a print job
> from a client, which has to be converted in a way, the printer
> understands. This is done by the printing driver for Windows.

Thank you for explaining _how_ the printing process works on Windows
o As I never needed to understand it until now (since Windows "just works")

Is this a correct data flow based on what you are trying to advise me?
1. The Windows application (eg MS Word) opens the file in a native format
2. Word "File > Print" sends the native format file to the "printer driver"
3. The printer driver receives "native format" & outputs "printer format"
   (which, for my HP LaserJet 2100tn appears to be "PCL-5")
4. The printer driver sends that PCL-5 to the printer IP at 192.168.0.20
   (I have no idea which port as a port scan shows only port 80 open.)
5. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PCL-5 format

Is that the correct data flow in a typical Windows printing situation?
o If so, that printer driver is doing a _lot_ of work as it needs to know 
  a zillion native formats (e.g., MS Word, Irfanview image, VIM text, etc.)

> On CUPS it is more standardized. If a printer understands PDF, 
> no conversion by a the CUPS server is needed.

Half of my problem is I don't understand how printing is supposed to work
o That can be overcome with a step-by-step tutorial - but there are none

So it behooves me to _understand_ what you're trying to impart to me!]

Assuming that the printer can "understand" the PDF format... 
o Is this how an Android print to that printer is "supposed" to work?
1. The Android editing app reads the file in a native format (e.g., JPEG)
2. The app's "File > Print" sends native format to its "CUPS client"
3. The Android CUPS client converts that native (eg JPEG) format to PDF
4. That CUPS client forwards that PDF to the printer at 192.168.1.20:????
5. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PDF format

>>I do not profess nor pretend to know _how_ it works; but it works.
> 
> PCL-5 is another standard (from HP), like PDF. If Android generates a
> PCL output, your printer accepts it as a PCL input.

Given I haven't seen any evidence my HP LJ2100tn supports PDF, I think I
_must_ get Android to output PCL, which, so far, I have been able to attain
only with the combination of two companion programs, where I still need to
_understand_ the data flow as it's not yet working perfectly:

I "think" this is the data flow, but I'm not at all sure that it is:
1. The LetsPrintDroid "print server" reads native format (e.g., PNG)
2. That print server converts that native format (eg PNG) to PCL-5 format
3. It then sends the resulting PCL-5 to the printer 192.168.0.20:?
4. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PCL format

For PDF files, for whatever reason, we need to add an Android intermediary:
1. The LetsPrintDroid "print server" reads native format (e.g., PDF)
2. That print server can't convert that native format (eg PDF) to PCL-5
3. So it sends the PDF to "LetsPrintPDF" which sends back a "bitmap"
4. The LetsPrintDroid print server" converts that bitmap to PCL-5 format
5. LetsPrintDroid then sends the PCL-5 to the printer at 192.168.0.20:?
6. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PCL format

Note: Any of that can be wrong; it's what I "think" the data flow is.
Note: LetsPrintPDF is a PDF viewer (also image viewer) on its own.

>>What I need help with is understanding why printing from Windows is easy
>>o And yet, printing from Android to the same printer is not
> 
> If your old windows printer does not support PDF or CUPS, it does not
> work with Linux/Android out of the box. It`s simple.

As far as I can tell, the HP LJ 2100tn, built in 1999, doesn't support
either CUPS or PDF; but it does have something called "Jet Direct", which
seems to accept something called "RAW" but I can't figure out what that is.
o What is JetDirect <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetDirect>

All I can figure out about "JetDirect" is that it's an Ethernet "NIC".
o It's what allows me to connect the printer to the SOHO router by CAT5.

On terminology, I see JetDirect somehow related to "print server" based on:
o HP LaserJet - Printers that can use HP Jetdirect print servers
<https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04763513>

But I'm not at all sure what a "print server" even is.
o Nor if my printer having a JetDirect card makes it a "print server".

What is a print server anyway? <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Print_server>
o I looked it up and it seems to be unnecessary for a single printer.
<https://rjyoung.com/blog/managed-it-services/what-you-need-to-know-about-a-print-server-setup/>

> Years ago hardware for Postscript/PDF-rendering was too expensive to
> integrate in every printer. So it was done in software on the Windows
> machine, which converts e. g. PDFs to GDI for the GDI driver of  the
> printer. Such printers are called "GDI printers":
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_Device_Interface#GDI_printers
> 
> The better ones supported at least PCL, too.
> But today every new printer should support CUPS/PDF.

What I desire is to know the normal data flow for an Ethernet'd printer.
o From Windows (since it just works), and, 
o From Android (since it needs to be debugged).
-- 
When we pool our knowledge, all of us can learn from each other.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#799

From	"JT" <JT@spam-me-not.invalid>
Date	2020-11-30 03:14 +0000
Message-ID	<rq1o21$7b2$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#797

Arlen Holder wrote:

> On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 14:59:21 +0100, Michael Logies wrote:
> 
> > if your printer is modern, it has a CUPS server included, 
> > the CUPS client ist on Android. 
> 
> Hi Michael Logies,
> 
> Thank you for your purposefully helpful advice on the CUPS process
> o None of us are paid to help each other so I appreciate your help.
> 
> You help out of your heart and that's what is great about Usenet!
> 
> THANK YOU for being the first to explain how the CUPS process works!
> o Almost all debugging requires knowledge of how the system works.
> 
> I had tried CUPS, and failed, but I didn't even know how it worked!
> o Thank you for explaining that process for us all.
> 
> If the CUPS client is on Android, then I already have that installed.
> o <https://i.postimg.cc/PxdDh7Sv/printing03.jpg> 
> 
> In fact, a CUPS client was the second approach I had tried (after Mopria):
> o <https://i.postimg.cc/xdvmwQ3S/printing02.jpg> 
> 
> However, based on my search results, CUPS "seemed" to only reside on Linux
> which is fine except my dual-boot desktops are mostly on Windows, and,
> worse, I tried like hell to find a CUPS port to Windows.
> o I found something for Windows called CUPSS but it seemed a dead end.
> 
> So I failed with CUPS; but if I had a step-by-step tutorial...
> o I might not have failed (likewise if the CUPS setup were more intuitive).
> 
> > The CUPS client always converts to PDF or
> > forwards a PDF to the CUPS server which converts it for the printer
> > (like a driver on Windows) for its printing. 
> 
> Thank you for explaining what the heck CUPS does as I read the Wikipedia
> & still didn't understand in the least how it applied to Android printing.
> 
> Unfortunately, when I tried using CUPS, I could find no Android tutorial:
> o <https://i.postimg.cc/6qRSK6WY/printing11.jpg> 
> 
> So when it got to this stage, I had no server to give the setup form:
> o <https://i.postimg.cc/9fMnMYX4/printing12.jpg>
> 
> It needs a server:port of the format:
> o <http://server.tld:631/printers/Print...
> 
> Certainly I "guessed" and gave it the printer's IP address:
> o http://192.168.0.20:631
> 
> But that failed.
> o And I gave up on CUPS as I didn't have any step-by-step tutorials.
> 
> Nor did I even understand what I was doing.
> o Up until now, printing has "just worked"; and then you learn nothing.
> 
> > If the printer supports printing PDF natively, the CUPS server has 
> > not to convert. I took my wisdom from:
> > https://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/CUPS/ Funktionsweise von CUPS
> 
> My printer is a typical Hewlett Packard LaserJet 2100tn built in 1999:
> o I really do not know what it supports, but I "think" it's only PCL-5.
>   <http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/bpl13210>
> 
> o I don't see any mention of CUPS or PDF on its official web page:
> o <https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-laserjet-2100-printer-series/25469/model/14918>
> 
> > > I'm very confused why Windows doesn't seem to need a "print server" 
> > > o Yet, Android seems to need a "print server"
> > 
> > The situation on Window is similiar, I think. You have a print job
> > from a client, which has to be converted in a way, the printer
> > understands. This is done by the printing driver for Windows.
> 
> Thank you for explaining how the printing process works on Windows
> o As I never needed to understand it until now (since Windows "just works")
> 
> Is this a correct data flow based on what you are trying to advise me?
> 1. The Windows application (eg MS Word) opens the file in a native format
> 2. Word "File > Print" sends the native format file to the "printer driver"
> 3. The printer driver receives "native format" & outputs "printer format"
>    (which, for my HP LaserJet 2100tn appears to be "PCL-5")
> 4. The printer driver sends that PCL-5 to the printer IP at 192.168.0.20
>    (I have no idea which port as a port scan shows only port 80 open.)
> 5. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PCL-5 format
> 
> Is that the correct data flow in a typical Windows printing situation?
> o If so, that printer driver is doing a lot of work as it needs to know 
>   a zillion native formats (e.g., MS Word, Irfanview image, VIM text, etc.)
> 
> > On CUPS it is more standardized. If a printer understands PDF, 
> > no conversion by a the CUPS server is needed.
> 
> Half of my problem is I don't understand how printing is supposed to work
> o That can be overcome with a step-by-step tutorial - but there are none
> 
> So it behooves me to understand what you're trying to impart to me!]
> 
> Assuming that the printer can "understand" the PDF format... 
> o Is this how an Android print to that printer is "supposed" to work?
> 1. The Android editing app reads the file in a native format (e.g., JPEG)
> 2. The app's "File > Print" sends native format to its "CUPS client"
> 3. The Android CUPS client converts that native (eg JPEG) format to PDF
> 4. That CUPS client forwards that PDF to the printer at 192.168.1.20:????
> 5. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PDF format
> 
> > > I do not profess nor pretend to know how it works; but it works.
> > 
> > PCL-5 is another standard (from HP), like PDF. If Android generates a
> > PCL output, your printer accepts it as a PCL input.
> 
> Given I haven't seen any evidence my HP LJ2100tn supports PDF, I think I
> _must_ get Android to output PCL, which, so far, I have been able to attain
> only with the combination of two companion programs, where I still need to
> _understand_ the data flow as it's not yet working perfectly:
> 
> I "think" this is the data flow, but I'm not at all sure that it is:
> 1. The LetsPrintDroid "print server" reads native format (e.g., PNG)
> 2. That print server converts that native format (eg PNG) to PCL-5 format
> 3. It then sends the resulting PCL-5 to the printer 192.168.0.20:?
> 4. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PCL format
> 
> For PDF files, for whatever reason, we need to add an Android intermediary:
> 1. The LetsPrintDroid "print server" reads native format (e.g., PDF)
> 2. That print server can't convert that native format (eg PDF) to PCL-5
> 3. So it sends the PDF to "LetsPrintPDF" which sends back a "bitmap"
> 4. The LetsPrintDroid print server" converts that bitmap to PCL-5 format
> 5. LetsPrintDroid then sends the PCL-5 to the printer at 192.168.0.20:?
> 6. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PCL format
> 
> Note: Any of that can be wrong; it's what I "think" the data flow is.
> Note: LetsPrintPDF is a PDF viewer (also image viewer) on its own.
> 
> > > What I need help with is understanding why printing from Windows is easy
> > > o And yet, printing from Android to the same printer is not
> > 
> > If your old windows printer does not support PDF or CUPS, it does not
> > work with Linux/Android out of the box. It`s simple.
> 
> As far as I can tell, the HP LJ 2100tn, built in 1999, doesn't support
> either CUPS or PDF; but it does have something called "Jet Direct", which
> seems to accept something called "RAW" but I can't figure out what that is.
> o What is JetDirect <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetDirect>
> 
> All I can figure out about "JetDirect" is that it's an Ethernet "NIC".
> o It's what allows me to connect the printer to the SOHO router by CAT5.
> 
> On terminology, I see JetDirect somehow related to "print server" based on:
> o HP LaserJet - Printers that can use HP Jetdirect print servers
> <https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04763513>
> 
> But I'm not at all sure what a "print server" even is.
> o Nor if my printer having a JetDirect card makes it a "print server".
> 
> What is a print server anyway? <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Print_server>
> o I looked it up and it seems to be unnecessary for a single printer.
> <https://rjyoung.com/blog/managed-it-services/what-you-need-to-know-about-a-print-server-setup/>
> 
> > Years ago hardware for Postscript/PDF-rendering was too expensive to
> > integrate in every printer. So it was done in software on the Windows
> > machine, which converts e. g. PDFs to GDI for the GDI driver of  the
> > printer. Such printers are called "GDI printers":
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_Device_Interface#GDI_printers
> > 
> > The better ones supported at least PCL, too.
> > But today every new printer should support CUPS/PDF.
> 
> What I desire is to know the normal data flow for an Ethernet'd printer.
> o From Windows (since it just works), and, 
> o From Android (since it needs to be debugged).


HP printers use TCP port 9100 by default


JT

--

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#800

From	Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com>
Date	2020-11-30 03:59 +0000
Message-ID	<rq1qm8$1ag0$1@neodome.net>
In reply to	#799

On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 03:14:09 +0000 (UTC), JT wrote:

> HP printers use TCP port 9100 by default

Hi JT,

Thank you for your purposefully helpful information about the port that the
HP printers use by default being port 9100. Much appreciated.

I instantly ran this quick test the moment I saw your post:
o telnet 192.168.0.20 9100 (connects, but I can't talk printer protocol)
o telnet 192.168.0.20 9200 (fails, I chose that port arbitrarily to test)

Indeed, you are correct that the HP LJ 2100tn is listening on port 9100.
o Thank you for being a good netizen by helping others out.

I wonder why port 9100 didn't show up in the ipscan for that printer?
o Printer's IP address, by Alex Trishan
  <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.perips.printers/c/Y-b186tFKTs>
o IP = 192.168.0.20 
o Ping = 2ms 
o Hostname = [n/a] 
o Ports[3+] = 80 

I checked the automatically set settings in Android LetsPrintDroid:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/L5Pfd7xc/printing14.jpg>

Notice they _also_ confirm they automatically chose port 9100.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/bYS12Dqm/printing15.jpg>

Do you perchance know what the "RAW" means in the "RAW - Jet Direct" 
o Is that "RAW" format the same thing as "PCL-5" format?
-- 
Usenet pools our collective experience with people around the world.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#801

From	"JT" <JT@spam-me-not.invalid>
Date	2020-12-01 02:51 +0000
Message-ID	<rq4b34$1s2b$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#800

Arlen Holder wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 03:14:09 +0000 (UTC), JT wrote:
> 
> > HP printers use TCP port 9100 by default
> 
> Hi JT,
> 
> Thank you for your purposefully helpful information about the port that the
> HP printers use by default being port 9100. Much appreciated.
> 
> I instantly ran this quick test the moment I saw your post:
> o telnet 192.168.0.20 9100 (connects, but I can't talk printer protocol)
> o telnet 192.168.0.20 9200 (fails, I chose that port arbitrarily to test)
> 
> Indeed, you are correct that the HP LJ 2100tn is listening on port 9100.
> o Thank you for being a good netizen by helping others out.
> 
> I wonder why port 9100 didn't show up in the ipscan for that printer?
> o Printer's IP address, by Alex Trishan
>   <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.perips.printers/c/Y-b186tFKTs>
> o IP = 192.168.0.20 
> o Ping = 2ms 
> o Hostname = [n/a] 
> o Ports[3+] = 80 
> 
> I checked the automatically set settings in Android LetsPrintDroid:
> o <https://i.postimg.cc/L5Pfd7xc/printing14.jpg>
> 
> Notice they also confirm they automatically chose port 9100.
> o <https://i.postimg.cc/bYS12Dqm/printing15.jpg>
> 
> Do you perchance know what the "RAW" means in the "RAW - Jet Direct" 
> o Is that "RAW" format the same thing as "PCL-5" format?

Arlen,

RAW is the default protocol on HP printers.

The other option is LPR/LPD.

I would highly recommend using RAW.

LPR/LPD gives you options for creating a print queue and send info about the job.

Not really needed in a home environment.

More info about LPR/LPD: https://www.brooksnet.com/content/faq-what-is-lpr-lpd


This entirely different from printer language.

Most HP printers support PCL5, PCL6 and Postscript printer languages.

PCL6 would be my choice if you don't need Postscript or your printer doesn't support it.


In addition, some HP printers do NOT allow Telnet access.



JT

--

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#803

From	Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com>
Date	2020-12-01 10:44 +0000
Message-ID	<rq56qv$1hnm$1@neodome.net>
In reply to	#801

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 02:51:16 +0000 (UTC), JT wrote:

> RAW is the default protocol on HP printers.
> The other option is LPR/LPD.
> I would highly recommend using RAW.

Hi JT,

Thanks for that recommendation as I'm at the point where I'm over my head
in protocols, RAW/JetDirect, IPP, IPP14, LPD, none of which have I even
thought about in all my decades of printing from Windows & Linux.

When everybody knows how to do it, I just google and find the steps
o It's only on Android printing that the steps simply don't exist (AFAICT).

Nowhere on the net have I found a step-by-step tutorial to do something
this simple, which is print directly to your own Ethernet'd printer which
isn't Mopria or Wi-Fi, and where you don't have a Linux CUPS server setup.

Even Android 10 help completely ignores printing to an Ethernet'd printer:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/pTkFdBSG/printing04.jpg> 

Even the HP app failed (it expects a "Wi-Fi printer"), where, until I found
the combination of LetsPrintDroid/LetsPrintPDF, the only solutions that
worked were the highly marketed cloud solutions.

While big marketing orgs love to have your data, the last thing I would use
is the cloud just to get data from one device on my LAN to another...
o Only a fool would need to use the cloud to transfer files to/from his own devices.
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/sgSv_BRzO0A>

I admit though that, when I looked for solutions, the big MARKETING orgs
sure did make it easy for people to print to their printers via the cloud.

> LPR/LPD gives you options for creating a print queue and send info about the job.
> Not really needed in a home environment.
> More info about LPR/LPD: https://www.brooksnet.com/content/faq-what-is-lpr-lpd
> This entirely different from printer language.
> Most HP printers support PCL5, PCL6 and Postscript printer languages.
> PCL6 would be my choice if you don't need Postscript or your printer doesn't support it.

Since this is a "legacy printer", HP no longer supplies the Windows 10
drivers, and neither does Windows 10, by default, even when you click the
"Update Driver" buttons where it tries (forever, and fails) to get them.

I wrote up this tutorial long ago for the _only_ way to get Windows
drivers, where, at that time, as I recall, I _tried_ PCL-6, but failed.
o Tutorial for the EASIEST (maybe only?) way to install a problematic legacy printer such as the HP LaserJet 2100 on Windows 10 current versions 
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/Qb-fXNOH_8g>

I tentatively (but not conclusively) conclude it doesn't support PCL-6.

> In addition, some HP printers do NOT allow Telnet access.

A port scanner says HP LaserJet 2100tn apparently supports telnet
o Although I would only use it for debugging purposes (AFAIK).

I wish I had on Windows a port scanner that could tell me this information
o Port Authority, Port scanner
  <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.aaronjwood.portauthority/>
Which reported the printer had the following "Open Ports"
  23 - Telnet
  80 - World Wide Web HTTP
  280 - http-mgmt
  515 - spooler
  631 - IPP (Internal Printing Protocol)
  9100 - PDL Data Streaming Port
As shown in this screenshot:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/L4YqhR1P/printing16.jpg>

While I'm not sure what the "spooler" port does, it seems I had two options
all along that I didn't know I had, which are to use "IPP" (I don't really
know what that is yet though) or RAW (port 9100). 

The good news is, I think, the fact IPP (whatever that is) might work in
addition to JetDirect/RAW, literally doubles my options, from 1 to 2!
-- 
Knowledge is not the same as experience when it comes to making choices.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#802

From	Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com>
Date	2020-12-01 10:18 +0000
Message-ID	<rq559s$d7e$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to	#800

On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 13:02:50 GMT, AnthonyL wrote:

> As mentioned previously try the Android app Port Scan from the Fdroid
> repositiory.

Hi AnthonyL,
Thank you for reminding me of that, which, I openly admit, I had forgotten.
o You'd think a Windows port scan would find open ports on a printer

I use AuroraDroid instead of F-Droid (same thing, only with a better GUI,
e.g., it autosaves APKs, just as I use Aurora Store instead of Google Play) 
o Port Authority, Port scanner
  <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.aaronjwood.portauthority/>

It turns out I already had that F-Droid app in my "Network" folder:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/L4YqhR1P/printing16.jpg>

Pressing "Discover Hosts", it found the printer easily at:192.168.1.1
o 192.168.0.20 HP-UX E 9000/889

Then I tapped that particular entry & hit "Scan Well-Known Ports"
o Which scanned the first 1024 ports, finding these "Open Ports"
  23 - Telnet
  80 - World Wide Web HTTP
  280 - http-mgmt
  515 - spooler
  631 - IPP (Internal Printing Protocol)

That was interesting. For example, noting that CUPS is often using port
631, does that mean my printer is already cups server of its own right?

Curious, I hit the button to scan the entire 65K port range, which found:
  23 - Telnet
  80 - World Wide Web HTTP
  280 - http-mgmt
  515 - spooler
  631 - IPP (Internal Printing Protocol)
  9100 - PDL Data Streaming Port

So there it is, in stark black & white.

Not only is the default PCL-5 printer port clearly 9100
o But, apparently, I have "IPP" (is this the same as CUPS?)

Looking it up, it seems IPP is the _only_ protocol CUPS supports natively:
o Cups protocol: What's the difference between RAW/JetDirect, IPP, IPP14, LPD?
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/333296/cups-printing-protocols-whats-the-difference-between-raw-jetdirect-ipp-ipp>
-- 
Together we know more than any one of us can possibly know being all alone.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#806

From	Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com>
Date	2020-12-01 22:38 +0000
Message-ID	<rq6gm0$2o4r$1@neodome.net>
In reply to	#802

On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 22:46:28 +0100, Michael Logies wrote:

> But there seem to be different flavors of IPP, "IPP Everywhere" being
> the newest one.
> Have you tested this one?
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.github.benoitduffez.cupsprint&hl=de&gl=US
> CUPS Printing

Hi Michael Logies, 
Thanks for that warning that CUPS' IPP may have different flavors, where, I
claim I've tried _ever_ free CUPS "print service" on both F-Droid & Google
Play.

Only belatedly have I realized they will _never_ work simply because all
require a "CUPS Server" (not to be confused with Android "Print Services".

> Other ways:
> https://www.xda-developers.com/android-oreo-print-service-ipp/
> Android Oreo Introduces Built-in Print Service for Printers that
> Support the IPP

As far as I can tell, IPP won't work without a "print server" (not to be
confused with an Android "print service"), such as a CUPS print server.

I'm only slowly realizing the "Print Service" simply means that apps can
use the Android API to talk to that Print Service via the "File > Print" of
that Android app. The Android "Print Service" doesn't seem to do much else.

I had read that very same article a while ago, where it's one reason I said
all the Mopria apps were, essentially, scams, as the default Android "Print
Service" is Mopria certified.

Given my HP LaserJet 2100tn Ethernet'd printer is _not_ Mopria certified
o Mopria-certified HP Printers
<https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04459315>
  "In Windows 10, printing is automatically enabled when the Windows 10 
   update has been applied (effective October 2018). In Android, you can
   print to Mopria-certified printers using the Default Print Service app
   built in to Android 8.0 and newer devices."

There's no way the default Android "print service" is gonna work for me:
   <https://mopria.org/certified-products>

The only way (AFAICT) the defulat "print service" can work is via IPP,
which, again, I think requires a _separate_ CUPS (or other) Linux-based
"print server" (not to be confused with Android "print services").

The Android "print service" merely energizes the "File > Print" menu in
Android apps (AFAICT), & doesn't actually add much more value than that.

> (...)
> If you have an older printer that does not support the IPP, though,
> then you will still need to install the app recommended by the
> PrintRecommendationService,
> https://android.googlesource.com/platform/frameworks/base/+/android-7.0.0_r1/packages/PrintRecommendationService/.
> You can learn more about this from a Google I/O 2016 presentation
> here,
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_JGeGLpOKs&feature=youtu.be&t=16m20s
> (...)

My HP LaserJet 2100tn Ethernet'd printer appears to support IPP based on a
network scan I ran from Android this morning showing 631 as an open port:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/L4YqhR1P/printing16.jpg> 

However, I'm slowly coming to the realization that nothing will work using
port 631 (CUPS defaults to IPP) until/unless I add a CUPS print server.

It's trivial to find a step-by-step tutorial to set up a Linux CUPS server:
o Set Up CUPS Print Server on Ubuntu (Bonjour, IPP, Samba, AirPrint)
<https://www.linuxbabe.com/ubuntu/set-up-cups-print-server-ubuntu-bonjour-ipp-samba-airprint>

But there are no tutorials (AFAICT) for setting up a Windows CUPS server.
o If they exist, & I just haven't found them, I'd love a pointer to one!

In summary, as far as I can tell (and I may very well be wrong), there is
no chance for the Mopria/CUPS/IPP default Print Service to work on Android
with my Ethernet's printer without a Linux CUPS server on my network.

Given there's almost zero change of setting up a Windows CUPS server, the
only way Windows 10 can help, I think, is via some kind of "shared" setup.

Otherwise, the only solution on the planet, known to me anyway, is the one
I came up with by help from people like you, and determined trial & error.
-- 
Some problems are harder to resolve because the industry went to the cloud.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#810

From	Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com>
Date	2020-12-03 05:36 +0000
Message-ID	<rq9thd$nos$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to	#806

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 22:38:57 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> My HP LaserJet 2100tn Ethernet'd printer appears to support IPP based on a
> network scan I ran from Android this morning showing 631 as an open port:
> o <https://i.postimg.cc/L4YqhR1P/printing16.jpg>

UPDATE:

BTW, it's not as easy to find something as simple as this, on Windows:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/qq3fY3qT/printing17.jpg> Scan printer open ports

Android output that key printer data in a minute or two elapsed time.
o Windows, after hours, _still_ hasn't done a single decent port scan!

Here's the thread on the task of replicating that simple task on Windows:
o What Windows port scanning freeware do you recommend for general use?
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/c/dqhQMscR3mA>
-- 
Adults with purposefully helpful intent help others because they care.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#815

From	Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com>
Date	2020-12-03 15:18 +0000
Message-ID	<rqavjk$asn$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to	#806

On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 17:03:16 +0100, Michael Logies wrote:

> yesterday I tried to print with my Android 10 (Xiaomi Mi 8) to a Epson
> WF-4630 (ca. 2014) in my office. It did not work with the system print
> service. I had to install "Epson Print Enabler", now it works. I do
> not know, whether the cloud is used or not.
> At home the Epson WF-4720 is recognized easily on the network by the
> system print service.
> I print too seldom from Android for being too much intererested in
> printing problems.

Hi Michael Logies,

Thank you for your update, where I appreciate that you let us know the
Epson app worked for you, even as the HP app failed for me (for reasons
already covered in gory detail in this thread).

I think it's the _wrong_ approach for everyone to have to install a
printer-specific app from the manufacturer; but if it works, that's OK.

What I always strive to do is spend the time to write the tutorial so that
the amount of effort it took us to get it working disappears for others.

All they have to do is follow the tutorial, where, I claim, based on what
I've learned, _anyone_ "should" be able to print to their networked
printer, no matter _what_ printer they have on the network, and no matter
how it's networked, as long as it has an IP address and open ports.

I'm writing up and testing the BSOD tutorial as we speak, and I already
wrote a few tutorials this week on the other newsgroups, so I'm a bit late
on this printing tutorial, but in its simplest form, this is the procedure:

1. Run a scan to identify the printer IP address & supported protocols.
2. Install "Let's Print Droid" & set it up as the _only_ "print service".
3. If the printer doesn't support PDF, also install "Let's Print PDF".

For sure, that does _not_ use the Internet in any way when printing.
o It's free, ad free, & most importantly, compatible with old printers!

I posit there's a good chance that procedure "should" (could? would?) work
on almost any printer on the network no matter how old it is, as long as it
has an IP address (e.g., I don't know about USB or serial port printers).

There are other options, of course, where I've already listed about 8
different ways to print from Android to the printer so I won't repeat them.

Thanks again for being a good hearted person who helps others on Usenet out
of the goodness of your soul, where it's nice to solve problems together.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#805

From	Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com>
Date	2020-12-01 22:05 +0000
Message-ID	<rq6enr$2g6s$1@neodome.net>
In reply to	#797

On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 13:39:01 +0100, Michael Logies wrote:

>>Assuming that the printer can "understand" the PDF format... 
>>o Is this how an Android print to that printer is "supposed" to work?
>>1. The Android editing app reads the file in a native format (e.g., JPEG)
>>2. The app's "File > Print" sends native format to its "CUPS client"
>>3. The Android CUPS client converts that native (eg JPEG) format to PDF
>>4. That CUPS client forwards that PDF to the printer at 192.168.1.20:????
>>5. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PDF format
> 
> Yes.

Hi Michael Logies,

Thanks for sticking with me as I generally don't give up easily, and even
when I find a solution (as I have, using Let's Print Droid), it's still
good for me to explore the CUPS solution, and then to write a tutorial for
others to do in minutes what has taken me (elapsed time) days to solve.

Thanks for confirming that the CUPS server is what converts the native
format to the printer format (which, in my HP LJ 2100tn, is PCL-5) via the
CUPS port (i.e., port 631, which I confirmed is open on the HP printer):
o <https://i.postimg.cc/L4YqhR1P/printing16.jpg> 

I installed _every_ free app on both F-Droid & Google Play that had "CUPS"
in the name, and tested every single one; but all failed in my tests:
o <https://play.google.com/store/search?q=cups%20printing&c=apps>

Only belatedly did I realize there's just no way CUPS is going to work
unless I have a _separate_ dedicated Linux CUPS server running; although
there are heroic ways, if rooted, to run a Debian CUPS server on Android:
o How to print to CUPS (running on another computer in the LAN)?
<https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/43774/how-to-print-to-cups-running-on-another-computer-in-the-lan>

The chance of finding a robust CUPS server compiled for Windows is slim
o CUPS Server compiled for Windows?
<https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2844819/cups-server-compiled-for-windows>
  "Making the complete CUPS server+filtering code work on Windows would be
   a daunting task, since Windows spooling and printing is so much
   different from the Unix world."
-- 
Solving problems nobody else has ever solved sometimes requires teamwork.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 2 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 Next page →

csiph-web

If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?

Contents

#773

#775

#778

#777

#779

#763

#771

#776

#794

#796

#797

#799

#800

#801

#803

#802

#806

#810

#815

#805