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Computer turns on and then just dies

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  Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-21 16:19 +0100
    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Marco Moock <mm+solani@dorfdsl.de> - 2024-11-21 16:28 +0100
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-21 17:07 +0100
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-11-22 00:18 +0800
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-21 17:57 +0100
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-11-22 11:42 +0800
              Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-22 19:47 +0100
                Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-22 20:34 -0500
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-11-22 11:47 +0800
              Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-22 19:48 +0100
                Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-11-23 12:12 +0800
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-23 15:18 -0600
    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-21 16:35 +0100
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-21 12:43 -0600
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-22 19:56 +0100
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-22 17:32 -0600
    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-21 12:22 -0600
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-22 20:01 +0100
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-22 18:03 -0600
    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-21 15:58 -0500
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-21 23:28 -0600
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-22 07:24 -0500
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-22 10:20 -0600
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-23 12:09 +0100
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:07 -0500
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-24 17:12 +0100
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-24 15:21 -0500
              Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-25 14:58 +0100
                Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-25 17:33 -0500
                  Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-26 18:44 +0100
                    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-26 16:31 -0600
                      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-27 15:38 +0100
                    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:04 -0500
                      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-27 16:01 +0100
                        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-27 10:19 -0500
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-23 14:28 -0600
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-24 17:10 +0100
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-24 15:27 -0500
              Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-25 15:08 +0100
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-25 14:38 +0100
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-26 16:37 -0600
              Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-27 16:05 +0100
    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-24 16:51 +0100
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-24 16:03 -0500
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-25 15:03 +0100
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-25 18:09 -0500
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-30 12:28 +0100
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-27 15:45 +0100
    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-28 17:17 +0100
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-28 11:07 -0600
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-28 19:30 -0500
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-28 19:34 -0600
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-29 05:21 -0500
              Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-29 11:35 -0600
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:49 +0100
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-29 17:11 +0100
              Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-29 15:01 -0500
                Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-29 21:46 -0600
                Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-30 12:21 +0100
                  Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-30 09:15 -0600
                    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-30 17:16 +0100
                      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-30 17:40 -0500
                        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:43 +0100
                          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-12-02 14:15 -0600
                            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-02 21:19 +0100
                      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-12-01 08:26 -0600
                        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-01 13:23 -0500
                        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:40 +0100
                          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-12-02 14:06 -0600
                            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-02 21:30 +0100
                    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-30 11:31 -0500
                      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-30 12:22 -0600
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-29 12:46 +0100
    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-04 17:41 +0100
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-12-04 14:14 -0600
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-04 18:28 -0500
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-12-05 09:30 -0600
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-05 11:11 -0500
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-06 17:43 +0100
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-06 17:45 +0100
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-12-06 16:46 -0600
              Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:11 +0100
                Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-12-07 09:46 -0600
                  Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-07 17:02 +0100
                    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-12-07 11:40 -0600
                      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-09 15:54 +0100
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-06 20:43 -0500
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-07 15:27 +0100

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#20633 — Computer turns on and then just dies

I've got a computer I haven't used for some time. I took out a hdd (D:)
and left it alone. I'm trying to get it to work again, but it just dies
on me. I've reinstalled the missing hdd and replaced the BIOS battery.

When I flip the switch of the power supply the standby power led on the
motherboard (ASUS F1A75) turns on, stays on for a bit and then dies. If
I then try again, nothing happens. I have to turn off the power switch
(power supply), leave it off and then try again. I can get in the BIOS
shortly (all fans are blowing) and then power's gone again.

I checked all cables and they should be fine. What could be causing this
and how to solve?

-- 
s|b

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#20634

Am 21.11.2024 16:19 Uhr schrieb s|b:

> When I flip the switch of the power supply the standby power led on
> the motherboard (ASUS F1A75) turns on, stays on for a bit and then
> dies. If I then try again, nothing happens. I have to turn off the
> power switch (power supply), leave it off and then try again. I can
> get in the BIOS shortly (all fans are blowing) and then power's gone
> again.

Do you have a spare power supply?

Can you check the CPU temperatures in the BIOS?


-- 
Gruß
Marco

Spam und Werbung bitte an
1732202386ichwillgesperrtwerden@nirvana.admins.ws

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#20636

On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 16:28:56 +0100, Marco Moock wrote:

> Do you have a spare power supply?

I may have one around that I could use, but it's going to take some time
if I want to try this.
 
> Can you check the CPU temperatures in the BIOS?

On the rare occasion I can enter the BIOS it's not long enough to check
the CPU temperature.

-- 
s|b

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#20637

On 22/11/2024 12:07 am, s|b wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 16:28:56 +0100, Marco Moock wrote:
> 
>> Do you have a spare power supply?
> 
> I may have one around that I could use, but it's going to take some time
> if I want to try this.
>   
>> Can you check the CPU temperatures in the BIOS?
> 
> On the rare occasion I can enter the BIOS it's not long enough to check
> the CPU temperature.

CPU too hot, leading to immediate shutdown?

You forgot to mention the brand and model of the motherboard, and those 
of the power supply!

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#20638

On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 00:18:24 +0800, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

> CPU too hot, leading to immediate shutdown?

When it starts all fans start blowing, CPU fan included. I'm not saying
it's impossible, but the tower was untouched after I took out the hard
drive. No loose cables (so it seems).
 
> You forgot to mention the brand and model of the motherboard, and those 
> of the power supply!

I clearly stated which motherboard it was in the OP:

ASUS F1A75
<https://www.asus.com/supportonly/f1a75/helpdesk_manual/>

Power supply: Antec model EA-380D GREEN 380W

-- 
s|b

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#20642

On 22/11/2024 12:57 am, s|b wrote:

> I clearly stated which motherboard it was in the OP:

My apology!

> 
> ASUS F1A75
> <https://www.asus.com/supportonly/f1a75/helpdesk_manual/>

Wow... that's an old AMD motherboard, and it's socket FM1.

I got an older Asus M3N78 PRO (socket AM2) still kicking though... quite 
surprising. :)

> Power supply: Antec model EA-380D GREEN 380W

I had used the same power supply. It did fail after not being powered on 
  for months.

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#20647

On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 11:42:23 +0800, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

> Wow... that's an old AMD motherboard, and it's socket FM1.
> 
> I got an older Asus M3N78 PRO (socket AM2) still kicking though... quite 
> surprising. :)

I've got an even older PC that I used to play around with Linux Mint,
Tails, Kali Linux, Puppy Linux, ...
 
> > Power supply: Antec model EA-380D GREEN 380W
 
> I had used the same power supply. It did fail after not being powered on 
>   for months.

The power supply that I have available is even older, but I know it
works. Question is if I can use. Connectors seem the same.

-- 
s|b

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#20653

On Fri, 11/22/2024 1:47 PM, s|b wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 11:42:23 +0800, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
> 
>> Wow... that's an old AMD motherboard, and it's socket FM1.
>>
>> I got an older Asus M3N78 PRO (socket AM2) still kicking though... quite 
>> surprising. :)
> 
> I've got an even older PC that I used to play around with Linux Mint,
> Tails, Kali Linux, Puppy Linux, ...
>  
>>> Power supply: Antec model EA-380D GREEN 380W
>  
>> I had used the same power supply. It did fail after not being powered on 
>>   for months.
> 
> The power supply that I have available is even older, but I know it
> works. Question is if I can use. Connectors seem the same.
> 

 October 2, 2010 7:00 PM EST

https://www.anandtech.com/show/3902/antec-earthwatts-ea-380d-green-380w/7

   "There's still enough power on top to run a Core i7 or Phenom X6 processor
    and a discrete GPU, but you'll want to stick with graphics cards that only
    require a single PCIe power connection to err on the side of caution."

That means in their estimation, a 125W video card (50W slot, 75W on 2x3)

    5V  3.3V  12V1  12V2  -12V  +5VSB    [ PCIe  1 x 6-pin ]

   20A  20A   17A   15A   0.5A   2.5A
   \       /  \        /
     115W      28A common
   combined     source

12V2 is CPU
12V1 is peripherals, PCIe slots

The two wiring looms should have their own overcurrent detection.
And apparently draw from a common source (the 28A number).

*******

"ASUS F1A75"  we don't know what processor.

A guess would be, it can't be over about 100W or 12V @ 10A to allow some
efficiency room. The 380D should be fine with the 15A it offers.

https://www.asus.com/me-en/supportonly/f1a75-v%20pro/helpdesk_cpu/

   AMD A8-3870K (AD3870WNZ43GX, rev.B0, 3.0GHz, QC, L2:4M, HD6550D, 100W)

10A from 28A combined spec, leaves 18A for peripherals, and the peripheral
rail has a 17A limit. 10A for the biggest video card it supports by
using the PCIe 2x3 connector leaves 12V @ 7A margin.

Best guess, when the supply was healthy and new, yes, it would be
sufficient for that board. Barring any surprises like
"I'm running a Bitcoin farm off it too" :-)

   Paul

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#20643

On 22/11/2024 12:57 am, s|b wrote:

> I clearly stated which motherboard it was in the OP:
> 
> ASUS F1A75
> <https://www.asus.com/supportonly/f1a75/helpdesk_manual/>

Speaking of AMD motherboard in that cold era of AMD history, I got a 
dead Asus M5A99X EVO. It worked for years and then suddenly, it could no 
longer get pass CPU test. That socket AM3 board belonged to the same era 
as your socket FM1 motherboard, and both used DDR3 memory modules.

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#20648

On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 11:47:38 +0800, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

> Speaking of AMD motherboard in that cold era of AMD history, I got a 
> dead Asus M5A99X EVO. It worked for years and then suddenly, it could no 
> longer get pass CPU test. That socket AM3 board belonged to the same era 
> as your socket FM1 motherboard, and both used DDR3 memory modules.

Maybe it's (real) bugs? ;-)

-- 
s|b

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#20654

On 23/11/2024 2:48 am, s|b wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 11:47:38 +0800, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
> 
>> Speaking of AMD motherboard in that cold era of AMD history, I got a
>> dead Asus M5A99X EVO. It worked for years and then suddenly, it could no
>> longer get pass CPU test. That socket AM3 board belonged to the same era
>> as your socket FM1 motherboard, and both used DDR3 memory modules.
> 
> Maybe it's (real) bugs? ;-)
> 

It was really strange. First the Asus M5A99X EVO randomly failed to 
boot, then it just stopped at the CPU test LED. I always thought this 
could be fixed by Asus, but I did not ask for services and just 
bought/upgraded to a better motherboard.

OTOH, I still got a Asrock E350M1 kicking. It also belonged to that cold 
era of AMD history.

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#20658

s|b <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Nov 2024 00:18:24 +0800, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
> 
>> CPU too hot, leading to immediate shutdown?
> 
> When it starts all fans start blowing, CPU fan included. I'm not saying
> it's impossible, but the tower was untouched after I took out the hard
> drive. No loose cables (so it seems).
>  
>> You forgot to mention the brand and model of the motherboard, and those 
>> of the power supply!
> 
> I clearly stated which motherboard it was in the OP:
> 
> ASUS F1A75
> <https://www.asus.com/supportonly/f1a75/helpdesk_manual/>
> 
> Power supply: Antec model EA-380D GREEN 380W

I didn't see mention the power consumption of that motherboard, but then
other components would add to that, like video card, drives, memory
modules, etc.  Rather than try to use some online power calculator
trying to estimate what size PSU is needed for a particular setup, I
measure the input power to the computer.

You could use a clamp A/C meter to measure how much current was flowing
into the computer on its power cord, but you need to use a splitter
adapter or shunt that separates the lines (hot and neutral) to let you
effectively put the clamp around just one wire.  Instead a kill-a-watt
meter is much easier.  You plug it into the outlet, and plug the power
cord into the meter.  That will tell you how much power is getting drawn
into the computer for all components inside, and everything attached
drawing power from the computer.

https://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Electricity-Usage-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU?th=1

There are different models, and different brands.  All you might need is
a cheap model as you only want to see what the computer draws at the
time you are using it, not record high and low points or a history of
power consumption.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/3902/antec-earthwatts-ea-380d-green-380w
(use the drop-down list to read other sections of the article)

That measures the power going in.  PSUs are not 100% efficient.  Your
Antec PSU has an efficiency of 85%, at best, but that's when it was new
at a particular load.  So, whatever the kill-a-watt meter shows you
multiply by .85 for what the PSU could deliver out.  The less efficient
the PSU, the heat it generates.  I didn't bother to check if the 380W
rating was for momentary or sustained load.  Mostly when I saw 380W it
seemed too low, but then maybe your setup doesn't need much power.  At a
minimum, I'd go by the kill-a-watt meter for what you're using now, and
ignore the efficiency rating.

If I knew the mobo's max load, CPU, drives, memory, video card, and
everything else inside, and anything connected to the computer, like USB
devices that don't supply their own power, then I could figure out what
size PSU is needed.  Without all that, and to measure the actual load
versus what the specs say, I'd use a kill-a-watt meter.

If you replace the PSU, get a bigger one.  Perhaps a much bigger one,
and more efficient to run cooler.  Besides, you'll save very little
getting another 350W PSU versus a 750W PSU.  You might actually pay more
for a 350W PSU, because the manufacturers are focusing and are tooled to
produce higher wattage units.

I've bought Fortron PSUs who became FSP which sells to makers under the
brands Antec, Sparkle, OCZ, SilverStone, Thermaltake, Nexus, Zalman, and
maybe more.

350W at Newegg:
https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=power+supply&N=600014047%20100007657
Higher wattages:
https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007657%20600479296&d=power+supply

Might as well buy a bigger one than the same cost on a small one.

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#20635

On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 16:19:46 +0100, s|b wrote:

> I checked all cables and they should be fine. What could be causing this
> and how to solve?

Forget to mention: I connected a little speaker to the motherboard and
when I (try to) boot it beeps once, indicating the motherboard should be
OK. There's a MemOK! switch that shows a red light, but only for a
moment.

-- 
s|b

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#20640

s|b <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 16:19:46 +0100, s|b wrote:
> 
>> I checked all cables and they should be fine. What could be causing this
>> and how to solve?
> 
> Forget to mention: I connected a little speaker to the motherboard and
> when I (try to) boot it beeps once, indicating the motherboard should be
> OK. There's a MemOK! switch that shows a red light, but only for a
> moment.

The single beep on cold boot is notifying the video BIOS loaded.  Before
the mobo BIOS can load, the video BIOS has to load (so you can see the
POST screen, BIOS settings, and the OS loading).

Without knowing the brand and model of motherboard, not sure what a
MemOK LED might indicate.  In general, a red MemOK LED means there is a
memory problem.  Were you inside the case touching stuff without being
properly grounded?  Because of thermal expansion and contraction when
components heat up and cool, components can "walk" out of their
connectors, or connectors can separate.  Unplug and reseat the DIMM
memory modules, and make sure they are fully seated.  Did you change the
position (slots) of any DIMM modules?  They may only work when paired in
the correct slots.  If all slots are filled, then position is not an
issue.  You might also want to unplug and replug the power connectors
(to mobo, to video card, to drives, etc) to wipe their contacts of any
oxides, and ensure they are fully seated.  You might even want to remove
and reseat any daughtercards (those in mobo slots).

If you are overclocking, DON'T.  Reset the BIOS (short the 2-pin mobo
header) to ensure you are using standard settings.  If the MemOK LED is
also a switch, I believe you can press that switch to load the BIOS
default settings.  However, some mobos come preset for overclocking
usually so they can sell at a higher price.  You might see a spec saying
"DDR4 3400*/3333*/3200*/3100*/3000*/2933*/2800*/2666*/2600*/2400*/2133"
for your mobo and what DIMM speeds it supports, but the asterisked ones
are overclocked settings, so resetting BIOS could have you using the
standard/slow speed, and you'd have to test which of the higher settings
are stable.

Don't try to boot with the old HDD installed into the computer.  Leave
out the old HDD, and boot with no drive installed.  The computer should
still boot, you get a beep saying the video BIOS loaded okay, the fans
all spin, but there will be a message on the screen saying something
like "boot device not found".  Getting that far means the system would
come up if it found an OS on one of the drives configured in BIOS.

With a red LED next to the MemOK switch, DIMMS that are incompatible or
misconfigured (wrong slots) or defective can cause a system boot
failure.  Press and hold the MemOK switch to start automatic memory
compatibility tuning which should change BIOS settings to match the
memory in the DIMM slots.  However, if the red LED lights up only
momentarily, it just might be flashing during the boot (as a test the
LEDs are working), but the system isn't getting powered off, so the LED
goes off, too.  That flash of the red LED may not indicate a memory
problem, only that the LED gets flashed as a normal event, but the
system isn't powering up.

Got a multimeter or voltmeter to check the voltages on the 20/24-pin
connector from PSU to mobo?

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#20649

On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 12:43:13 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

> The single beep on cold boot is notifying the video BIOS loaded.  Before
> the mobo BIOS can load, the video BIOS has to load (so you can see the
> POST screen, BIOS settings, and the OS loading).

Sometimes I can get in the BIOS, but after seconds the power is shut
off.
 
> Without knowing the brand and model of motherboard, not sure what a
> MemOK LED might indicate.

I mentioned that in the OP and I've searched the manual: red for a few
seconds and then off is a good thing.

> Were you inside the case touching stuff without being
> properly grounded?

You mean like the thingy on my wrist? No.

> Unplug and reseat the DIMM
> memory modules, and make sure they are fully seated.  Did you change the
> position (slots) of any DIMM modules?

Tried that, several combinations. It's 2 modules; the mobo supports
paired.

> If you are overclocking, DON'T.

I don't.

>  Reset the BIOS (short the 2-pin mobo
> header) to ensure you are using standard settings.

Tried that.

> Don't try to boot with the old HDD installed into the computer.  Leave
> out the old HDD, and boot with no drive installed.  The computer should
> still boot, you get a beep saying the video BIOS loaded okay, the fans
> all spin, but there will be a message on the screen saying something
> like "boot device not found".  Getting that far means the system would
> come up if it found an OS on one of the drives configured in BIOS.

This, I haven't tried.

> Got a multimeter or voltmeter to check the voltages on the 20/24-pin
> connector from PSU to mobo?

That's above my skill. I know how to build a PC and what each part does
(more or less), but that's about it.

-- 
s|b

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#20651

s|b <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 12:43:13 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:
> 
>> Were you inside the case touching stuff without being
>> properly grounded?
> 
> You mean like the thingy on my wrist? No.

Actually you just need to ground yourself with a wired wrist
contraption.  With the computer plugged into a 3-prong outlet, the
chassis is grounded.  Use one hand to grab the chassis (ground) while
you use the other hand to putz around inside.  If you need 2 hands
inside, just ground yourself first, and don't anything while inside,
like walk around on carpet, shuffle papers, or do anything that will
build a static charge on you.  You're trying to reduce or eliminate the
voltaic potential between you and the electronics, not necessary have
you grounded but the device floating at some higher voltage.

High voltage doesn't kill.  A difference in voltage kills.
Speed doesn't kill.  A difference in speed kills.

>> Got a multimeter or voltmeter to check the voltages on the 20/24-pin
>> connector from PSU to mobo?
> 
> That's above my skill. I know how to build a PC and what each part does
> (more or less), but that's about it.

Multimeters are cheap.  You don't need a super accurate one that has
been verified at a lab.  You're just checking if voltages from the PSU
(while under load) are okay at the 20/24-pin connector from PSU to mobo.

What brand PSU do you have?  Some are pretty bad.  Is it a prebuilt
computer?  Those get minimal PSUs often incapable of supporting the
additional load of populating the other daughtercard slots on the mobo.
Figure a 10% loss in wattage each year for the cheapies, or 5% per year
for the good ones.  They wane over time.  The cheapies also overrate
their capacity by claiming, say, 750W but not for a sustained load.

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#20639

s|b <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> I've got a computer I haven't used for some time. I took out a hdd (D:)
> and left it alone. I'm trying to get it to work again, but it just dies
> on me. I've reinstalled the missing hdd and replaced the BIOS battery.
> 
> When I flip the switch of the power supply the standby power led on the
> motherboard (ASUS F1A75) turns on, stays on for a bit and then dies. If
> I then try again, nothing happens. I have to turn off the power switch
> (power supply), leave it off and then try again. I can get in the BIOS
> shortly (all fans are blowing) and then power's gone again.
> 
> I checked all cables and they should be fine. What could be causing this
> and how to solve?

After replacing the CMOS battery, did you reset the CMOS table (to avoid
corruption of its settings, and restore them from EEPROM)?

When you apply power, do the fans spin, especially the CPU fan?  Or do
they just wiggle a little, and stop?  Or not spin at all?

Used air cans to dust out the inside, like the heatsinks on the CPU and
GPU?  If those are filthy, or not well secured to the CPU and GPU, or
the thermal paste has dried out, the heat from the chip cannot get
dissipated from the heatsink (which needs air blowing over it to remove
the heat fast enough).  Thermal protection will shutoff the computer if
temperatures of the chips get too high.  If you have any cables in the
way of air flow over the heatsinks, you need to move the cables out of
the way.  Cooling requires drawing inside air, so the inlet of air into
the case is needed.

When powering up, also check the PSU fan spins.  If not, it also has
thermal protection.

If this isn't a really old computer using an AT-style PSU where the
Power switch was hardwired into the PSU, but is an ATX-style PSU where
it still supplies some power (3V standby) to the mobo to power the
onboard logic for powering on, and to where the Power switch goes to the
mobo, have you tried shorting the PS-On signal on the mobo header to
where the Power switch connects?  For ATX, the Power switch goes to the
mobo instead of the PSU.  It drops the PS-On line to ground which
signifies to the PSU it should come fully on.  On the cable going to the
mobo from the PSU, the PS-On signal is the green wire.  With the PSU
cable connected to the mobo, you can use a couple sewing needles to
press into the backside of the cable connector, and cross the needles to
short the PS-On pin to a Gnd pin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS-ON_Signal
https://www.smps.us/atx-pinout.png
Pin 16 (green) = PS-On
There is a ground on both sides of the PS-On pin.

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#20650

On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 12:22:45 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

> After replacing the CMOS battery, did you reset the CMOS table (to avoid
> corruption of its settings, and restore them from EEPROM)?

I did the reset, but don't remember if that was before or after I
replaced the battery. Will do it again.
 
> When you apply power, do the fans spin, especially the CPU fan?  Or do
> they just wiggle a little, and stop?  Or not spin at all?

CPU fan, case fan, power supply fan, graphic card fan, they all spin at
high speed, but only for a few seconds.
 
> Used air cans to dust out the inside, like the heatsinks on the CPU and
> GPU?  If those are filthy, or not well secured to the CPU and GPU, or
> the thermal paste has dried out, the heat from the chip cannot get
> dissipated from the heatsink

I'm beginning to think this could be it. Wouldn't there be warning beeps
though?

> When powering up, also check the PSU fan spins.  If not, it also has
> thermal protection.

Last time I checked it spinned, but I will take extra notice next time.

-- 
s|b

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#20652

s|b <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 12:22:45 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:
> 
>> After replacing the CMOS battery, did you reset the CMOS table (to avoid
>> corruption of its settings, and restore them from EEPROM)?
> 
> I did the reset, but don't remember if that was before or after I
> replaced the battery. Will do it again.
>  
>> When you apply power, do the fans spin, especially the CPU fan?  Or do
>> they just wiggle a little, and stop?  Or not spin at all?
> 
> CPU fan, case fan, power supply fan, graphic card fan, they all spin at
> high speed, but only for a few seconds.
>  
>> Used air cans to dust out the inside, like the heatsinks on the CPU and
>> GPU?  If those are filthy, or not well secured to the CPU and GPU, or
>> the thermal paste has dried out, the heat from the chip cannot get
>> dissipated from the heatsink
> 
> I'm beginning to think this could be it. Wouldn't there be warning beeps
> though?

Thermal protection does a power shutdown.  While they measure
temperature, reaching that temperature means it is on the rise, and
there is more heat building up.  The component will get even hotter,
especially when fans are turned off (so it be smarter to keep the fans
running for a minute after the thermal shutdown, like how some electric
fans on car radiators keep spinning after turning off the car).  They
have to shut down at temperature that permits sufficient time to prevent
further buildup of heat causing damage.

In some setups, the CPU gets throttled (runs slower) to reduce its heat
output.  That makes the computer really slow, but it still starts.
However, if the temperature is too high, the thermal cutoff is immediate
to prevent burning up stuff.

Often you can use your nose as a detective.  Sniff around inside, like
the exhaust side of the PSU (that pushes air into the case), the voltage
regulator capacitors around the CPU.  Although you could get an infrared
temperature probe, just putting a finger on heatsinks and memory modules
might hint stuff is getting too hot.  Same for touching the drives.
Just remember that what is too hot for your finger isn't that hot for
electronics.  The CPU is probably rated for an *operating* temperature
up to 80C (176F), but your finger won't enjoy that temperature.  Third
degree burns happen at 66C (150F).

You won't know if new thermal paste is needed until you separate the
heatsinks from the chip, but then you'll need to repaste, anyway.  Don't
reuse thermal paste.  After separating the two, clean off the old paste,
even if it looks good, and apply new paste.  Most users apply thermal
paste way too thick.  Metal-to-metal is best for thermal transfer.  Air
is very bad.  The paste is used only to fill the microscopic gaps
between chip plate and heatsink.  Unfortunately not all chip plates and
heatsinks are perfectly flat, so the paste also accomodates larger gaps,
but thermal paste is not as good as metal-to-metal.  More paste is not
better.  Rare few users lap the plate atop the CPU and the bottom of the
heatsink to get them as flat as possible to ensure maximum
metal-to-metal contact.  

Some setups don't use paste, but thermal strips as those are more neat
to apply (less mess), don't require expertise in applying a *thin* layer
of paste, and don't ooze out under the pressure of clamping the heatsink
to the CPU.  Those liquidfy under pressure and heat: they get applied to
the heatsink which is pressed down onto the CPU which heats up, and the
tape liquidfies.  Thermal strips are not as effective as thermal paste,
but thermal paste gobbed on too thick is almost as bad as not using any.
If you do end up scraping off the old paste and applying new paste, be
careful of those containing metallic particles.  The premise is the
metal particles provide better thermal transfer, but any that oozes out
when the heatsink is clamped onto the CPU can short out foil paths and
component connections on the mobo around the CPU.

>> When powering up, also check the PSU fan spins.  If not, it also has
>> thermal protection.
> 
> Last time I checked it spinned, but I will take extra notice next time.

Most PSUs have only 1 fan: exhaust (into the interior of the case).
Some have 2 fans: intake (outside air into PSU) and exhaust (inside of
PSU into the case).  Mostly those are for redundancy: if one fan fails,
the other is sufficient.  

There are some PSUs that don't push any air inside the case.  Usually
those are bottom-mounted in the case.  They suck up air from the bottom
and push out to the side.  The outside air goes through the PSU, and
only through the PSU to cool just the PSU.  The idea is not to push
preheated air from heated components inside the PSU into the case.
Instead separate case fans are used to get cooler outside air inside the
case.

Although you may see the fans spin doesn't mean their spindles will spin
freely (minimum friction).  If a fan, especially the CPU heatsink fan,
doesn't spin fast enough, the BIOS can power down the computer.  Without
the fan spinning, there is no air passing over the heat sink to cool it.
Often the BIOS settings will show the fan speeds, but you might not be
able to navigate to that screen since the computer is powering off
pretty quick.  Take an ear swab, wood stirrer stick, or something thin
and non-conductive to flick the blades on the fan to spin it.  The fan
should not immediate stop when the stirrer stick stops pushing the
blade.  If accessible, you can also put your finger on the hub to spin
the blades attached to it.  If you feel resistance, or almost a
throbbing sensation (there is intermittent resistance), or the hub with
blades won't keep spinning a turn or two after you flick the hub, the
fan is worn out.  That could result in the fan not spinning fast enough,
the BIOS sees a slow fan, and shuts down to prevent thermal damage from
lack of air cooling.

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#20641

On Thu, 11/21/2024 10:19 AM, s|b wrote:
> I've got a computer I haven't used for some time. I took out a hdd (D:)
> and left it alone. I'm trying to get it to work again, but it just dies
> on me. I've reinstalled the missing hdd and replaced the BIOS battery.
> 
> When I flip the switch of the power supply the standby power led on the
> motherboard (ASUS F1A75) turns on, stays on for a bit and then dies. If
> I then try again, nothing happens. I have to turn off the power switch
> (power supply), leave it off and then try again. I can get in the BIOS
> shortly (all fans are blowing) and then power's gone again.
> 
> I checked all cables and they should be fine. What could be causing this
> and how to solve?
> 

"flip the switch... standby power led on ASUS F1A75... stays on for a bit and then dies"

The power supply consists of two halves.

The supervisor power makes +5VSB.
On an Asus motherboard, the +5VSB LED is tied right to that rail.
When you see the Asus LED go OFF, it means the +5VSB supply is OFF.

It has nothing to do with the main SMPS block, which makes 3.3/5/12/-12

In the situation where you got the BIOS to respond, it means
the +5VSB circuit was running, and main SMPS was running,
then the +5VSB fails and the +5VSB "enables" the main SMPS.
Both of them go off. The +5VSB is the "boss of the machine".

Your first observation then, is indicative of the problem.

1) Open PSU casing, check for cobwebs or hair, or some component
   has fallen off its heatsink. Be careful in there, as it's HVDC
   in part of the circuit. 300-500VDC could be on the main cap.

   Also examine for leaking caps (brown stain on top of caps where the
   cap has "K" or "X" seams"). On a failed Antec (ChannelWell CWT)
   here, it was four capacitors on the main supply that were leaking.
   I also had an Antec where the Antec was a spare, and two years
   after I bought it, I went to use it, and it had leaking caps
   just sitting in storage. The Bad Cap Era was not stress related,
   it was bad chemistry (wrong pH) inside the electrolytic cap.

2) Use a clamp-on ammeter, to monitor the +5VSB wire on the main cable.
   On modern sheathed cabling, we can no longer conveniently do this test!
   The PSU may have a 3 ampere limit. +5VSB at 1 amp might be a typical value
   for a load. Charging your iPhone off USB may draw up to 2 amps, which
   would be very close to the limit for a +5VSB. when the fan stops spinning
   on a PSU which normally spins the fan at all times, and you were charging
   your iPhone, it means the +5VSB runs without cooling. I would recommend
   people NOT charge junk off the PC port -- it might extend the life of the
   +5VSB block.

Here is a reference circuit. They don't build PSUs this way any more.
This diagram then, is just to understand the block level concepts.

http://www.pavouk.org/hw/en_atxps.html

The +5VSB block is in the lower left corner. This one happens to be a
linear regulator with fairly low output current capability. Modern
supplies use an SMPS with MOSFETs for that block, and hopefully,
with higher efficiency. The SMPS doesn't kick out the heat
that the item in the diagram does. You can get linear regulators at
the 3 ampere level, so it is possible to build that circuit as a linear,
but it could really throw out a lot of heat if charging an iPhone.
That's why today, it's a tiny SMPS in the lower left corner.

The top middle of the diagram, has two power transistors switching the primary
winding of the shared transformer. The secondary side has rectifier diodes,
and LC filtering to make low-ripple DC on the output. That was back when the
main SMPS was a single circuit. The evolution of the main SMPS into
two SMPS boards is irrelevant to your debug today.

At one time, some of the AthlonXP designs (before your AMD was invented),
they used +5V @ 13A for the CPU supply. This changed to +12V at many more
amps, from the PSU. The PSU designs of today, have HUGE +12V ratings,
suited to running CPUs and video cards. One of the consequences of that,
is the modern PSUs don't expect big +5V loads any more. If selecting
a supply to run a dual socket AthlonXP board, none of the modern supplies
would be suitable. There were a few PSUs back in those days, that could
do +5V @ 40A, whereas the ones today can do +5V @ 20A, and that's not
enough to run my AthlonXP sample build here.

Your motherboard is modern enough, that the PSUs are mostly intended
for it, so you can buy most anything. Beware though, that some of the
supplies have the connector for the RTX4090 GPU and they don't have
quite the same selection of PCIe 2x3 and 2x4 supply connectors.

PSUs can be expensive. I picked up a "mid value" supply at Best Buy
(as the computer store had a poor selection) and that supply was
$150.00 CDN. The last two builds used a 750W (in the low power PC)
and a 650W (in the high power PC). I'm just slapping in whatever
is sitting on a shelf :-) Since the individual builds happen without
coordinating where best to use the supplies, sometimes I end up
with illogical choices like that. The 650W one has maybe 350W of load
or so. The +3.3V and the +5V are likely 10 amps or less (out of 20 amps).
The 3.3V and 5V have a "combined power" - on a Seasonic the combined power
is 100W. On some other brands the combined power is 130W. My daily driver
PC has the Seasonic in it SS620GB has combined power of 130W for the
+3.3V and +5V board, so I must have been checking which Seasonic
I was buying on that day. This is why you have to sort your Seasonic
into piles, in terms of rating.

I try to keep a spare PSU in the house, but it's tough. I don't
have a spare right now. Everything is in computer cases. And I don't
particularly want to go out and buy another $150.00 supply right now.

Sometimes, there are clearance sales. When Enermax left the country
(could not get reliable warranty service from Canadian warranty companies),
some of their supplies went for a lower price. This offers a chance
to find supplies at a discount. "Keeping a spare" then, represents
an open order, to be filled by a supply which is on sale. So really,
my spare is a measure of "how cheap I am" :-) By buying a spare before
you need it, you can shop for bargains. So what if it doesn't have
a warranty.

   Paul

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