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Groups > alt.checkmate > #245411 > unrolled thread

Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks

Started byTed <ted@sam.street>
First post2019-01-05 01:53 +0000
Last post2019-01-07 04:05 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 196 — 18 participants

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Contents

  Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-05 01:53 +0000
    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-04 20:00 -0700
      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 20:03 -0700
        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-05 06:07 +0000
      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-05 12:48 +0000
    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Meteorite Debris <WTF@whoknows.com> - 2019-01-05 15:03 +1030
      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mitchell Holman <noemail@verizont.net> - 2019-01-05 07:32 -0600
        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-05 13:59 +0000
        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-05 06:42 -0800
      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks bookwurm <bookwurm8@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 14:22 +0000
    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Meteorite Debris <WTF@whoknows.com> - 2019-01-05 15:05 +1030
      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-05 12:48 +0000
    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Klaus  Schadenfreude <klausschadenfreude@null.net> - 2019-01-05 03:11 -0800
      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-05 12:48 +0000
        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Klaus  Schadenfreude <klausschadenfreude@null.net> - 2019-01-05 04:57 -0800
          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-05 13:04 +0000
    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Patrick <PBARKER002@woh.rr.com> - 2019-01-05 09:20 -0500
      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-05 14:27 +0000
    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 15:28 -0800
      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-05 23:41 +0000
        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 15:43 -0800
          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-05 23:53 +0000
            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 15:56 -0800
              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-06 00:11 +0000
                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 16:24 -0800
                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-06 00:57 +0000
                    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 10:14 -0800
                      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 18:30 +0000
                      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-06 21:20 +0000
                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-06 14:44 -0700
                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 22:00 +0000
                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-06 15:06 -0700
                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 22:12 +0000
                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-06 22:32 +0000
                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 15:42 -0700
                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-06 22:53 +0000
                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 16:00 -0700
                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-06 23:32 +0000
                                    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 16:36 -0700
                                      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-06 23:42 +0000
                                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 16:45 -0700
                                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-07 00:42 +0000
                                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks "Scout" <me4guns@removethis.this2.spam.centurylink.net> - 2019-01-07 22:02 -0500
                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 22:43 +0000
                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-06 22:53 +0000
                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 22:00 +0000
                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 15:13 -0700
                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 22:23 +0000
                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 15:25 -0700
                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 22:43 +0000
                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 15:51 -0700
                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-06 22:53 +0000
                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-06 22:53 +0000
                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 16:02 -0700
                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-06 23:32 +0000
                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 15:00 -0800
                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-06 23:34 +0000
                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 16:47 -0700
                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-07 00:42 +0000
                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 17:43 -0700
                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-07 01:07 +0000
                                    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 18:31 -0700
                                      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-07 01:51 +0000
                                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 18:58 -0700
                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-07 13:07 -0800
                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-07 16:13 -0700
                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-07 15:16 -0800
                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-07 16:28 -0700
                                    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-07 16:02 -0800
                                      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-07 17:19 -0700
                                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-07 16:49 -0800
                                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-07 17:57 -0700
                                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-07 17:12 -0800
                                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-07 18:40 -0700
                                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-07 22:28 -0800
                                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-08 07:01 +0000
                                                    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-07 23:09 -0800
                                                      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-08 13:58 +0000
                                                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 11:48 -0800
                                                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-08 13:11 -0700
                                                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Patrick <PBARKER002@woh.rr.com> - 2019-01-08 15:25 -0500
                                                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks "DoD" <danskisanjar@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 14:26 -0600
                                                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 12:54 -0800
                                                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks "DoD" <danskisanjar@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 14:59 -0600
                                                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb - 2019-01-08 14:01 -0700
                                                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-08 14:25 -0700
                                                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Patrick <PBARKER002@woh.rr.com> - 2019-01-08 15:22 -0500
                                                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 12:56 -0800
                                                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 14:00 -0700
                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 16:46 -0700
                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 15:54 -0800
                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 17:07 -0700
                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 16:27 -0800
                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 17:33 -0700
                                    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 16:56 -0800
                                      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 18:06 -0700
                                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 17:12 -0800
                                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 18:35 -0700
                                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 17:42 -0800
                                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 18:47 -0700
                                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> - 2019-01-06 17:54 -0800
                                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> - 2019-01-06 17:57 -0800
                                                    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-07 04:17 +0000
                                                      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-07 04:56 +0000
                                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 19:08 -0700
                                                    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> - 2019-01-06 18:13 -0800
                                                      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-07 02:37 +0000
                                                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> - 2019-01-07 12:29 -0800
                                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-07 04:17 +0000
                                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-06 20:21 -0700
                                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-07 04:56 +0000
                                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Just Wondering <JW@me.com> - 2019-01-07 01:18 -0700
                                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-07 14:11 +0000
                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks "Scout" <me4guns@removethis.this2.spam.centurylink.net> - 2019-01-07 22:00 -0500
                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Clave <ChrisShitbagious@TheMonastery.com> - 2019-01-07 19:24 -0800
                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks "Scout" <me4guns@removethis.this2.spam.centurylink.net> - 2019-01-07 22:59 -0500
                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-08 06:18 +0000
                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-05 18:48 -0700
      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-05 18:48 -0700
        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 17:56 -0800
          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-05 19:09 -0700
            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-06 02:16 +0000
              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-05 19:27 -0700
                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-06 02:37 +0000
                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-05 19:41 -0700
                    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-06 03:06 +0000
                      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-05 20:11 -0700
                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-06 03:35 +0000
                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-05 20:50 -0700
                      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 20:12 -0700
            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 20:36 -0800
              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-05 22:00 -0700
                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 09:22 -0800
                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 18:13 +0000
                    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 10:16 -0800
                      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 18:30 +0000
                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 15:03 -0800
                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 16:07 -0700
                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-06 23:32 +0000
                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 16:48 -0700
                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-07 00:45 +0000
                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 17:48 -0700
                                    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-07 01:12 +0000
                                      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 18:35 -0700
                                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-07 02:13 +0000
                                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-07 02:37 +0000
                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 15:51 -0800
                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 17:12 -0700
                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 16:30 -0800
                                    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 17:37 -0700
                                      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 16:58 -0800
                                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 18:04 -0700
                                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 17:09 -0800
                                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 18:32 -0700
                                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 17:40 -0800
                                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 18:45 -0700
                                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 18:12 -0800
                                                    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-07 02:37 +0000
                                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> - 2019-01-06 17:52 -0800
                                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 19:03 -0700
                                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> - 2019-01-06 18:12 -0800
                                                    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-07 02:30 +0000
                                                      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> - 2019-01-07 12:29 -0800
                                                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-07 22:05 +0000
                                                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> - 2019-01-07 14:10 -0800
                                                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-07 16:27 -0700
                                                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> - 2019-01-07 15:29 -0800
                                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 18:14 -0800
                                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-07 02:37 +0000
                                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-07 13:17 -0800
                                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-07 04:17 +0000
                                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-07 04:56 +0000
                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-07 00:45 +0000
                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 15:51 -0800
                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 17:11 -0700
                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 16:30 -0800
                                  Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 17:36 -0700
                                    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 17:03 -0800
                                      Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 18:30 -0700
                                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 17:37 -0800
                                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 18:41 -0700
                                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 17:47 -0800
                                              Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 18:55 -0700
                                                Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 18:08 -0800
                                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-07 02:13 +0000
                                            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-07 02:37 +0000
                                        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 18:39 -0700
                                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 18:43 -0700
                                          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Ted <ted@sam.street> - 2019-01-07 02:13 +0000
        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Bob Robertson <bobrobertsontsy66@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 20:05 -0600
          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-05 19:16 -0700
          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks % <persent@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 19:18 -0700
            Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-05 19:27 -0700
        Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Avenging Angel <Not.fucking.likely@NoWay.com> - 2019-01-06 13:18 +0000
          Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2019-01-06 18:13 +0000
    Re: Bernie Sanders' fans can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks Avenging Angel <Not.fucking.likely@NoWay.com> - 2019-01-07 04:05 +0000

Page 9 of 10 — ← Prev page 1 … 7 8 [9] 10  Next page →


#246104

FromRudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con>
Date2019-01-06 18:12 -0800
Message-ID<XzyYD.95511$0e.16248@fx29.iad>
In reply to#246101
On 1/6/2019 6:03 PM, Snit wrote:
> On 1/6/19 6:52 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>> On 1/6/2019 5:32 PM, Snit wrote:
>>> On 1/6/19 6:09 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 18:04:52 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/6/19 5:58 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:37:19 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 5:30 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:12:54 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:51 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 23:32:03 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> articles exposing Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and whom Russia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them on request), so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shenanigans in 2020. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silence him and other Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom depends on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting person. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew-found celebrity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1980s when our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going back to what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> techniques...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the like.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this program or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benefits, no allowed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Business
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income? 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are the rules
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all income
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where they do not?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20K do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 20K?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow 
>>>>>>>>>>>> businesses to
>>>>>>>>>>>> deduct their expenses but people to not be able to?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It would be nice to have the options available to me when I was
>>>>>>>>>>> self-employed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We just had a roof done.  Can you imagine if they had to pay 70% on
>>>>>>>>>> the total cost instad on just the profit.  The majority of what I 
>>>>>>>>>> piad
>>>>>>>>>> went toward materials.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why assume a flat tax would be at 70%?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry you are going to the Rudy level.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is a valid question. You spoke of a flat tax. Now the percent has
>>>>>>> been given -- 70%. Why assume a 70% level for a flat tax?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry she wanted a 70% tax and not on a flat tax scale.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In  discussion one time a universal flat tax would be 14-16%.
>>>>>
>>>>> And the roofer would not be paying 70% taxes... they would be paying
>>>>> about 15%. They can work that into the cost, just as we work the cost
>>>>> into goods we buy.
>>>>
>>>> The wouldn't a business taxed 70% also work that into the cost.  Power
>>>> companies and such?  Gas companies?  Steel companies?
>>>
>>> What company do you think is taxed at 70%? But the idea that they have 
>>> to cover their costs is NOT a reason to not tax them. No more bribes and 
>>> tithing to the rich.
>>
>> Neither one of you clueless economics-illiterate fuckwits knows what 
>> you're bullshitting about.
> 
> Starting with insults

No, facts.  Both of you are economics-illiterate fuckwits.  Got it.  Cool.

>> First, the economics-illiterate idiot Ocasio-Cortez didn't specify 
>> whether she meant a 70% marginal rate or a 70% flat rate.
> 
> And now you claim she is "illiterate"

*With* evidence.  She is clearly economics-illiterate.

> 
>> That lack of specification is one of the proofs that she is a fucking 
>> idiot.  She doesn't know the difference.  She really doesn't - that is 
>> clear.
> 
> She made no formal proposal for ANY tax rate.

That's a lie.

>> Secondly, businesses cannot simply "pass along" any taxes they incur. Tax 
>> incidence depends on price elasticity - something you do not know 
>> anything about - and typically for most goods, only part of taxes imposed 
>> on sales can be passed on to the consumer (*no* part of corporate income 
>> tax can be passed on to the consumer.)
> 
> Of course increased costs can lead to increased prices.

Of course business firms cannot pass along 100% of cost increases - 
including taxes - to their customers.

You admit:  you know nothing about tax incidence.  Cool.

>> Both of you need to keep your fucking economics-illiterate mouths shut on 
>> this.  Neither one of you knows one fucking thing about tax incidence.

Snot admits to knowing nothing about tax incidence.  Cool.

-- 
Snot's '.sig' is wrong, sophomoric and indicative of
his bloated ego.  Snot fancies himself the Great
Tribune of Usenet, who is going to tell all the
rest of us What It All Means.

Well...no.  Just no.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246112

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2019-01-07 02:30 +0000
Message-ID<g9frtfF8v6U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#246104
Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> wrote:
> On 1/6/2019 6:03 PM, Snit wrote:
>> On 1/6/19 6:52 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>> On 1/6/2019 5:32 PM, Snit wrote:
>>>> On 1/6/19 6:09 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 18:04:52 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 1/6/19 5:58 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:37:19 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 5:30 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:12:54 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:51 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 23:32:03 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> articles exposing Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and whom Russia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them on request), so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shenanigans in 2020. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silence him and other Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom depends on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting person. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew-found celebrity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1980s when our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going back to what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> techniques...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the like.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this program or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benefits, no allowed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Business
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income? 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are the rules
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all income
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where they do not?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20K do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 20K?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> businesses to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> deduct their expenses but people to not be able to?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be nice to have the options available to me when I was
>>>>>>>>>>>> self-employed.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> We just had a roof done.  Can you imagine if they had to pay 70% on
>>>>>>>>>>> the total cost instad on just the profit.  The majority of what I 
>>>>>>>>>>> piad
>>>>>>>>>>> went toward materials.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Why assume a flat tax would be at 70%?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sorry you are going to the Rudy level.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It is a valid question. You spoke of a flat tax. Now the percent has
>>>>>>>> been given -- 70%. Why assume a 70% level for a flat tax?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sorry she wanted a 70% tax and not on a flat tax scale.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In  discussion one time a universal flat tax would be 14-16%.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And the roofer would not be paying 70% taxes... they would be paying
>>>>>> about 15%. They can work that into the cost, just as we work the cost
>>>>>> into goods we buy.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The wouldn't a business taxed 70% also work that into the cost.  Power
>>>>> companies and such?  Gas companies?  Steel companies?
>>>> 
>>>> What company do you think is taxed at 70%? But the idea that they have 
>>>> to cover their costs is NOT a reason to not tax them. No more bribes and 
>>>> tithing to the rich.
>>> 
>>> Neither one of you clueless economics-illiterate fuckwits knows what 
>>> you're bullshitting about.
>> 
>> Starting with insults
> 
> No, facts.  Both of you are economics-illiterate fuckwits.  Got it.  Cool.
> 
>>> First, the economics-illiterate idiot Ocasio-Cortez didn't specify 
>>> whether she meant a 70% marginal rate or a 70% flat rate.
>> 
>> And now you claim she is "illiterate"
> 
> *With* evidence.  She is clearly economics-illiterate.
> 
>> 
>>> That lack of specification is one of the proofs that she is a fucking 
>>> idiot.  She doesn't know the difference.  She really doesn't - that is 
>>> clear.
>> 
>> She made no formal proposal for ANY tax rate.
> 
> That's a lie.
> 
>>> Secondly, businesses cannot simply "pass along" any taxes they incur. Tax 
>>> incidence depends on price elasticity - something you do not know 
>>> anything about - and typically for most goods, only part of taxes imposed 
>>> on sales can be passed on to the consumer (*no* part of corporate income 
>>> tax can be passed on to the consumer.)
>> 
>> Of course increased costs can lead to increased prices.
> 
> Of course business firms cannot pass along 100% of cost increases - 
> including taxes - to their customers.

We can debate if they can, but big corporations generally do not have to.
That ties into how the tax changes and other gifts to the rich have lead to
subsidies for labor costs even as CEOs rake in so much cash. 

Even when they go bankrupt like SEARS, they try to not pay the workers’
pensions even as they pay the executives billions. 

> 
> You admit:  you know nothing about tax incidence.  Cool.

What quote do you mean?

> 
>>> Both of you need to keep your fucking economics-illiterate mouths shut on 
>>> this.  Neither one of you knows one fucking thing about tax incidence.
> 
> Snot admits to knowing nothing about tax incidence.  Cool.
> 

What quote do you mean?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246289

FromRudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con>
Date2019-01-07 12:29 -0800
Message-ID<uEOYD.841$wz4.126@fx10.iad>
In reply to#246112
On 1/6/2019 6:30 PM, Snit wrote:
> Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> wrote:
>> On 1/6/2019 6:03 PM, Snit wrote:
>>> On 1/6/19 6:52 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>> On 1/6/2019 5:32 PM, Snit wrote:
>>>>> On 1/6/19 6:09 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 18:04:52 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 5:58 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:37:19 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 5:30 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:12:54 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:51 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 23:32:03 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> articles exposing Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and whom Russia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them on request), so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shenanigans in 2020. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silence him and other Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom depends on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting person. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew-found celebrity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1980s when our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going back to what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> techniques...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the like.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this program or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benefits, no allowed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Business
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are the rules
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all income
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where they do not?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20K do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 20K?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> businesses to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deduct their expenses but people to not be able to?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be nice to have the options available to me when I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> self-employed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We just had a roof done.  Can you imagine if they had to pay 70% on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the total cost instad on just the profit.  The majority of what I
>>>>>>>>>>>> piad
>>>>>>>>>>>> went toward materials.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why assume a flat tax would be at 70%?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry you are going to the Rudy level.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is a valid question. You spoke of a flat tax. Now the percent has
>>>>>>>>> been given -- 70%. Why assume a 70% level for a flat tax?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry she wanted a 70% tax and not on a flat tax scale.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In  discussion one time a universal flat tax would be 14-16%.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And the roofer would not be paying 70% taxes... they would be paying
>>>>>>> about 15%. They can work that into the cost, just as we work the cost
>>>>>>> into goods we buy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The wouldn't a business taxed 70% also work that into the cost.  Power
>>>>>> companies and such?  Gas companies?  Steel companies?
>>>>>
>>>>> What company do you think is taxed at 70%? But the idea that they have
>>>>> to cover their costs is NOT a reason to not tax them. No more bribes and
>>>>> tithing to the rich.
>>>>
>>>> Neither one of you clueless economics-illiterate fuckwits knows what
>>>> you're bullshitting about.
>>>
>>> Starting with insults
>>
>> No, facts.  Both of you are economics-illiterate fuckwits.  Got it.  Cool.
>>
>>>> First, the economics-illiterate idiot Ocasio-Cortez didn't specify
>>>> whether she meant a 70% marginal rate or a 70% flat rate.
>>>
>>> And now you claim she is "illiterate"
>>
>> *With* evidence.  She is clearly economics-illiterate.
>>
>>>
>>>> That lack of specification is one of the proofs that she is a fucking
>>>> idiot.  She doesn't know the difference.  She really doesn't - that is
>>>> clear.
>>>
>>> She made no formal proposal for ANY tax rate.
>>
>> That's a lie.
>>
>>>> Secondly, businesses cannot simply "pass along" any taxes they incur. Tax
>>>> incidence depends on price elasticity - something you do not know
>>>> anything about - and typically for most goods, only part of taxes imposed
>>>> on sales can be passed on to the consumer (*no* part of corporate income
>>>> tax can be passed on to the consumer.)
>>>
>>> Of course increased costs can lead to increased prices.
>>
>> Of course business firms cannot pass along 100% of cost increases -
>> including taxes - to their customers.
> 
> We can debate if they can,

No, you can't.  *You* can't, because you're economics-illiterate and don't 
know anything about price elasticity and tax incidence.

> but big corporations generally do not have to.

Corporations have no special power to change tax incidence.

>>
>> You admit:  you know nothing about tax incidence.  Cool.
> 
> What quote do you mean?

Who said anything about a quote?

>>
>>>> Both of you need to keep your fucking economics-illiterate mouths shut on
>>>> this.  Neither one of you knows one fucking thing about tax incidence.
>>
>> Snot admits to knowing nothing about tax incidence.  Cool.
>>
> 
> What quote do you mean?

I don't mean any particular quote.  I mean the totality of the bullshit you 
write that exhibits complete economics illiteracy.

-- 
Snot's '.sig' is wrong, sophomoric and indicative of
his bloated ego.  Snot fancies himself the Great
Tribune of Usenet, who is going to tell all the
rest of us What It All Means.

Well...no.  Just no.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246320

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2019-01-07 22:05 +0000
Message-ID<g9i0pkFev54U3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#246289
Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> wrote:
> On 1/6/2019 6:30 PM, Snit wrote:
>> Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> wrote:
>>> On 1/6/2019 6:03 PM, Snit wrote:
>>>> On 1/6/19 6:52 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>> On 1/6/2019 5:32 PM, Snit wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/6/19 6:09 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 18:04:52 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 5:58 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:37:19 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 5:30 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:12:54 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:51 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 23:32:03 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> articles exposing Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and whom Russia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them on request), so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shenanigans in 2020. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silence him and other Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom depends on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting person. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew-found celebrity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1980s when our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going back to what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> techniques...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the like.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this program or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benefits, no allowed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Business
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are the rules
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all income
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where they do not?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20K do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 20K?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> businesses to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deduct their expenses but people to not be able to?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be nice to have the options available to me when I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self-employed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We just had a roof done.  Can you imagine if they had to pay 70% on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the total cost instad on just the profit.  The majority of what I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> piad
>>>>>>>>>>>>> went toward materials.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why assume a flat tax would be at 70%?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry you are going to the Rudy level.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> It is a valid question. You spoke of a flat tax. Now the percent has
>>>>>>>>>> been given -- 70%. Why assume a 70% level for a flat tax?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sorry she wanted a 70% tax and not on a flat tax scale.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In  discussion one time a universal flat tax would be 14-16%.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> And the roofer would not be paying 70% taxes... they would be paying
>>>>>>>> about 15%. They can work that into the cost, just as we work the cost
>>>>>>>> into goods we buy.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The wouldn't a business taxed 70% also work that into the cost.  Power
>>>>>>> companies and such?  Gas companies?  Steel companies?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What company do you think is taxed at 70%? But the idea that they have
>>>>>> to cover their costs is NOT a reason to not tax them. No more bribes and
>>>>>> tithing to the rich.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Neither one of you clueless economics-illiterate fuckwits knows what
>>>>> you're bullshitting about.
>>>> 
>>>> Starting with insults
>>> 
>>> No, facts.  Both of you are economics-illiterate fuckwits.  Got it.  Cool.
>>> 
>>>>> First, the economics-illiterate idiot Ocasio-Cortez didn't specify
>>>>> whether she meant a 70% marginal rate or a 70% flat rate.
>>>> 
>>>> And now you claim she is "illiterate"
>>> 
>>> *With* evidence.  She is clearly economics-illiterate.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> That lack of specification is one of the proofs that she is a fucking
>>>>> idiot.  She doesn't know the difference.  She really doesn't - that is
>>>>> clear.
>>>> 
>>>> She made no formal proposal for ANY tax rate.
>>> 
>>> That's a lie.
>>> 
>>>>> Secondly, businesses cannot simply "pass along" any taxes they incur. Tax
>>>>> incidence depends on price elasticity - something you do not know
>>>>> anything about - and typically for most goods, only part of taxes imposed
>>>>> on sales can be passed on to the consumer (*no* part of corporate income
>>>>> tax can be passed on to the consumer.)
>>>> 
>>>> Of course increased costs can lead to increased prices.
>>> 
>>> Of course business firms cannot pass along 100% of cost increases -
>>> including taxes - to their customers.
>> 
>> We can debate if they can,
> 
> No, you can't.  *You* can't, because you're economics-illiterate and don't 
> know anything about price elasticity and tax incidence.
> 
>> but big corporations generally do not have to.
> 
> Corporations have no special power to change tax incidence.
> 
>>> 
>>> You admit:  you know nothing about tax incidence.  Cool.
>> 
>> What quote do you mean?
> 
> Who said anything about a quote?
> 
>>> 
>>>>> Both of you need to keep your fucking economics-illiterate mouths shut on
>>>>> this.  Neither one of you knows one fucking thing about tax incidence.
>>> 
>>> Snot admits to knowing nothing about tax incidence.  Cool.
>>> 
>> 
>> What quote do you mean?
> 
> I don't mean any particular quote.  I mean the totality of the bullshit you 
> write that exhibits complete economics illiteracy.
> 

So no actual sign of you claims. Got it. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246321

FromRudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con>
Date2019-01-07 14:10 -0800
Message-ID<27QYD.195826$lx7.67947@fx44.iad>
In reply to#246320
On 1/7/2019 2:05 PM, Snit wrote:
> Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> wrote:
>> On 1/6/2019 6:30 PM, Snit wrote:
>>> Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> wrote:
>>>> On 1/6/2019 6:03 PM, Snit wrote:
>>>>> On 1/6/19 6:52 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/6/2019 5:32 PM, Snit wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 6:09 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 18:04:52 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 5:58 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:37:19 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 5:30 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:12:54 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:51 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 23:32:03 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> articles exposing Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and whom Russia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them on request), so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shenanigans in 2020. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> silence him and other Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom depends on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting person. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew-found celebrity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 1980s when our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going back to what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> techniques...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the like.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this program or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benefits, no allowed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Business
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are the rules
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all income
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where they do not?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20K do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 20K?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> businesses to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deduct their expenses but people to not be able to?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be nice to have the options available to me when I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self-employed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We just had a roof done.  Can you imagine if they had to pay 70% on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the total cost instad on just the profit.  The majority of what I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> piad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went toward materials.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why assume a flat tax would be at 70%?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry you are going to the Rudy level.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It is a valid question. You spoke of a flat tax. Now the percent has
>>>>>>>>>>> been given -- 70%. Why assume a 70% level for a flat tax?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry she wanted a 70% tax and not on a flat tax scale.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In  discussion one time a universal flat tax would be 14-16%.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And the roofer would not be paying 70% taxes... they would be paying
>>>>>>>>> about 15%. They can work that into the cost, just as we work the cost
>>>>>>>>> into goods we buy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The wouldn't a business taxed 70% also work that into the cost.  Power
>>>>>>>> companies and such?  Gas companies?  Steel companies?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What company do you think is taxed at 70%? But the idea that they have
>>>>>>> to cover their costs is NOT a reason to not tax them. No more bribes and
>>>>>>> tithing to the rich.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Neither one of you clueless economics-illiterate fuckwits knows what
>>>>>> you're bullshitting about.
>>>>>
>>>>> Starting with insults
>>>>
>>>> No, facts.  Both of you are economics-illiterate fuckwits.  Got it.  Cool.
>>>>
>>>>>> First, the economics-illiterate idiot Ocasio-Cortez didn't specify
>>>>>> whether she meant a 70% marginal rate or a 70% flat rate.
>>>>>
>>>>> And now you claim she is "illiterate"
>>>>
>>>> *With* evidence.  She is clearly economics-illiterate.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> That lack of specification is one of the proofs that she is a fucking
>>>>>> idiot.  She doesn't know the difference.  She really doesn't - that is
>>>>>> clear.
>>>>>
>>>>> She made no formal proposal for ANY tax rate.
>>>>
>>>> That's a lie.
>>>>
>>>>>> Secondly, businesses cannot simply "pass along" any taxes they incur. Tax
>>>>>> incidence depends on price elasticity - something you do not know
>>>>>> anything about - and typically for most goods, only part of taxes imposed
>>>>>> on sales can be passed on to the consumer (*no* part of corporate income
>>>>>> tax can be passed on to the consumer.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course increased costs can lead to increased prices.
>>>>
>>>> Of course business firms cannot pass along 100% of cost increases -
>>>> including taxes - to their customers.
>>>
>>> We can debate if they can,
>>
>> No, you can't.  *You* can't, because you're economics-illiterate and don't
>> know anything about price elasticity and tax incidence.
>>
>>> but big corporations generally do not have to.
>>
>> Corporations have no special power to change tax incidence.
>>
>>>>
>>>> You admit:  you know nothing about tax incidence.  Cool.
>>>
>>> What quote do you mean?
>>
>> Who said anything about a quote?
>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Both of you need to keep your fucking economics-illiterate mouths shut on
>>>>>> this.  Neither one of you knows one fucking thing about tax incidence.
>>>>
>>>> Snot admits to knowing nothing about tax incidence.  Cool.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What quote do you mean?
>>
>> I don't mean any particular quote.  I mean the totality of the bullshit you
>> write that exhibits complete economics illiteracy.
>>
> 
> So no actual sign of you claims.

Lots.

You know nothing about tax incidence, and you admit it, even though you're 
too stupid to know you're admitting it.  Cool.
-- 
Snot's '.sig' is wrong, sophomoric and indicative of
his bloated ego.  Snot fancies himself the Great
Tribune of Usenet, who is going to tell all the
rest of us What It All Means.

Well...no.  Just no.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246357

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2019-01-07 16:27 -0700
Message-ID<g9i5idFfvv4U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#246321
On 1/7/19 3:10 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
...
>>>> What quote do you mean?
>>>
>>> I don't mean any particular quote.  I mean the totality of the 
>>> bullshit you
>>> write that exhibits complete economics illiteracy.
>>>
>>
>> So no actual sign of you claims.
> 
> Lots.
> 
> You know nothing about tax incidence, and you admit it, even though 
> you're too stupid to know you're admitting it.  Cool.

You have an odd way of admitting you have no support for your claims.

In any case, I love how Ocasio-Cortez had to explain the very concept of 
a marginal tax rate to the GOP Minority Whip:

https://twitter.com/SteveScalise/status/1081579535114608640
-----
Republicans: Let Americans keep more of their own hard-earned money
Democrats: Take away 70% of your income and give it to leftist fantasy 
programs
-----

And her response:

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1081761714096476160
-----
You’re the GOP Minority Whip. How do you not know how marginal tax rates 
work?

Oh that’s right, almost forgot: GOP works for the corporate CEOs 
showering themselves in multi-million💰bonuses; not the actual working 
people whose wages + healthcare they’re ripping off for profit.
-----

LOL!

Keep in mind this is not some yahoo found on YouTube or the like... this 
is Steve Scalise, the GOP Minority Whip... and he has NO clue how 
marginal tax rates work.

You have to admit it is sorta funny. And scary... how do these ignorant 
folks get into power?

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246360

FromRudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con>
Date2019-01-07 15:29 -0800
Message-ID<nhRYD.884$dD4.579@fx14.iad>
In reply to#246357
On 1/7/2019 3:27 PM, Snit wrote:
> On 1/7/19 3:10 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
> ...
>>>>> What quote do you mean?
>>>>
>>>> I don't mean any particular quote.  I mean the totality of the bullshit 
>>>> you
>>>> write that exhibits complete economics illiteracy.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So no actual sign of you claims.
>>
>> Lots.
>>
>> You know nothing about tax incidence, and you admit it, even though 
>> you're too stupid to know you're admitting it.  Cool.
> 
> You have an odd way of admitting you have no support for your claims.

No such admission.  My claim is fully supported:  you know nothing about 
tax incidence, and you admit it even though you're too stupid to know 
you're admitting it.  Cool.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246110

FromMattb <trdell12345@gmail.com>
Date2019-01-06 18:14 -0800
Message-ID<jcd53ep6mtn4bef6293gifoak84eb2u602@4ax.com>
In reply to#246096
On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:52:51 -0800, Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con>
wrote:

>On 1/6/2019 5:32 PM, Snit wrote:
>> On 1/6/19 6:09 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 18:04:52 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/6/19 5:58 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:37:19 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/6/19 5:30 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:12:54 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:51 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 23:32:03 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> articles exposing Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and whom Russia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them on request), so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shenanigans in 2020. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to silence 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> him and other Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom depends on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting person. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew-found celebrity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1980s when our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going back to what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> techniques...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> program or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benefits, no allowed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I am 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Business
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income? 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are the rules
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on all 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> income
>>>>>>>>>>>>> where they do not?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>>>>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 20K do
>>>>>>>>>>>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 20K?
>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow 
>>>>>>>>>>> businesses to
>>>>>>>>>>> deduct their expenses but people to not be able to?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It would be nice to have the options available to me when I was
>>>>>>>>>> self-employed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We just had a roof done.  Can you imagine if they had to pay 70% on
>>>>>>>>> the total cost instad on just the profit.  The majority of what I piad
>>>>>>>>> went toward materials.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why assume a flat tax would be at 70%?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry you are going to the Rudy level.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is a valid question. You spoke of a flat tax. Now the percent has
>>>>>> been given -- 70%. Why assume a 70% level for a flat tax?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry she wanted a 70% tax and not on a flat tax scale.
>>>>>
>>>>> In  discussion one time a universal flat tax would be 14-16%.
>>>>
>>>> And the roofer would not be paying 70% taxes... they would be paying
>>>> about 15%. They can work that into the cost, just as we work the cost
>>>> into goods we buy.
>>>
>>> The wouldn't a business taxed 70% also work that into the cost.  Power
>>> companies and such?  Gas companies?  Steel companies?
>> 
>> What company do you think is taxed at 70%? But the idea that they have to 
>> cover their costs is NOT a reason to not tax them. No more bribes and 
>> tithing to the rich.
>
>Neither one of you clueless economics-illiterate fuckwits knows what you're 
>bullshitting about.
>
>First, the economics-illiterate idiot Ocasio-Cortez didn't specify whether 
>she meant a 70% marginal rate or a 70% flat rate.  That lack of 
>specification is one of the proofs that she is a fucking idiot.  She 
>doesn't know the difference.  She really doesn't - that is clear.

We agree on something.  HAHAHAha

>
>Secondly, businesses cannot simply "pass along" any taxes they incur.  Tax 
>incidence depends on price elasticity - something you do not know anything 
>about - and typically for most goods, only part of taxes imposed on sales 
>can be passed on to the consumer (*no* part of corporate income tax can be 
>passed on to the consumer.)

WHY?  If you double the tax on a commodity you can't pass it on  to
the consumer?   WHY?

The Trumps tariffs should not make prices go up?



>
>Both of you need to keep your fucking economics-illiterate mouths shut on 
>this.  Neither one of you knows one fucking thing about tax incidence.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246117

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2019-01-07 02:37 +0000
Message-ID<g9fsbtFbbjU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#246110
Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:52:51 -0800, Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/6/2019 5:32 PM, Snit wrote:
>>> On 1/6/19 6:09 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 18:04:52 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/6/19 5:58 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:37:19 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 5:30 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:12:54 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:51 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 23:32:03 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> articles exposing Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and whom Russia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them on request), so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shenanigans in 2020. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to silence 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> him and other Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom depends on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting person. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew-found celebrity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1980s when our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going back to what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> techniques...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> program or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benefits, no allowed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I am 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Business
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income? 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are the rules
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on all 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> income
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where they do not?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20K do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20K?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow 
>>>>>>>>>>>> businesses to
>>>>>>>>>>>> deduct their expenses but people to not be able to?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> It would be nice to have the options available to me when I was
>>>>>>>>>>> self-employed.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> We just had a roof done.  Can you imagine if they had to pay 70% on
>>>>>>>>>> the total cost instad on just the profit.  The majority of what I piad
>>>>>>>>>> went toward materials.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Why assume a flat tax would be at 70%?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sorry you are going to the Rudy level.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It is a valid question. You spoke of a flat tax. Now the percent has
>>>>>>> been given -- 70%. Why assume a 70% level for a flat tax?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sorry she wanted a 70% tax and not on a flat tax scale.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In  discussion one time a universal flat tax would be 14-16%.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And the roofer would not be paying 70% taxes... they would be paying
>>>>> about 15%. They can work that into the cost, just as we work the cost
>>>>> into goods we buy.
>>>> 
>>>> The wouldn't a business taxed 70% also work that into the cost.  Power
>>>> companies and such?  Gas companies?  Steel companies?
>>> 
>>> What company do you think is taxed at 70%? But the idea that they have to 
>>> cover their costs is NOT a reason to not tax them. No more bribes and 
>>> tithing to the rich.
>> 
>> Neither one of you clueless economics-illiterate fuckwits knows what you're 
>> bullshitting about.
>> 
>> First, the economics-illiterate idiot Ocasio-Cortez didn't specify whether 
>> she meant a 70% marginal rate or a 70% flat rate.  That lack of 
>> specification is one of the proofs that she is a fucking idiot.  She 
>> doesn't know the difference.  She really doesn't - that is clear.
> 
> We agree on something.  HAHAHAha

She made no actual proposal as you guys are acting as if she did. 
> 
>> 
>> Secondly, businesses cannot simply "pass along" any taxes they incur.  Tax 
>> incidence depends on price elasticity - something you do not know anything 
>> about - and typically for most goods, only part of taxes imposed on sales 
>> can be passed on to the consumer (*no* part of corporate income tax can be 
>> passed on to the consumer.)
> 
> WHY?  If you double the tax on a commodity you can't pass it on  to
> the consumer?   WHY?
> 
> The Trumps tariffs should not make prices go up?

It is mind boggling. 

> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> Both of you need to keep your fucking economics-illiterate mouths shut on 
>> this.  Neither one of you knows one fucking thing about tax incidence.
> 


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246303

FromMattb <trdell12345@gmail.com>
Date2019-01-07 13:17 -0800
Message-ID<euf73e1n59m0bq9j652l9foin88lh0v76d@4ax.com>
In reply to#246110
On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 00:17:08 -0800 (PST), eriley@home.com wrote:

>On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 8:14:49 PM UTC-6, Mattb wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:52:51 -0800, Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On 1/6/2019 5:32 PM, Snit wrote:
>> >> On 1/6/19 6:09 PM, Mattb wrote:
>> >>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 18:04:52 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 1/6/19 5:58 PM, Mattb wrote:
>> >>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:37:19 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 1/6/19 5:30 PM, Mattb wrote:
>> >>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:12:54 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:51 PM, Mattb wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 23:32:03 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> articles exposing Bernie
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and whom Russia
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them on request), so
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shenanigans in 2020. We
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to silence 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> him and other Russian
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom depends on it.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting person. We
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew-found celebrity
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before the 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1980s when our
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going back to what
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> techniques...
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and the 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want this 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> program or
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benefits, no allowed
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount that is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I am 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level.  
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Business
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that special
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income? 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Are the rules
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on all 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> income
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> where they do not?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> service
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 20K do
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just the 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 20K?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow 
>> >>>>>>>>>>> businesses to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> deduct their expenses but people to not be able to?
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> It would be nice to have the options available to me when I was
>> >>>>>>>>>> self-employed.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> We just had a roof done.  Can you imagine if they had to pay 70% on
>> >>>>>>>>> the total cost instad on just the profit.  The majority of what I piad
>> >>>>>>>>> went toward materials.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Why assume a flat tax would be at 70%?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Sorry you are going to the Rudy level.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> It is a valid question. You spoke of a flat tax. Now the percent has
>> >>>>>> been given -- 70%. Why assume a 70% level for a flat tax?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Sorry she wanted a 70% tax and not on a flat tax scale.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> In  discussion one time a universal flat tax would be 14-16%.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> And the roofer would not be paying 70% taxes... they would be paying
>> >>>> about 15%. They can work that into the cost, just as we work the cost
>> >>>> into goods we buy.
>> >>>
>> >>> The wouldn't a business taxed 70% also work that into the cost.  Power
>> >>> companies and such?  Gas companies?  Steel companies?
>> >> 
>> >> What company do you think is taxed at 70%? But the idea that they have to 
>> >> cover their costs is NOT a reason to not tax them. No more bribes and 
>> >> tithing to the rich.
>> >
>> >Neither one of you clueless economics-illiterate fuckwits knows what you're 
>> >bullshitting about.
>> >
>> >First, the economics-illiterate idiot Ocasio-Cortez didn't specify whether 
>> >she meant a 70% marginal rate or a 70% flat rate.  That lack of 
>> >specification is one of the proofs that she is a fucking idiot.  She 
>> >doesn't know the difference.  She really doesn't - that is clear.
>> 
>> We agree on something.  HAHAHAha
>> 
>> >
>> >Secondly, businesses cannot simply "pass along" any taxes they incur.  Tax 
>> >incidence depends on price elasticity - something you do not know anything 
>> >about - and typically for most goods, only part of taxes imposed on sales 
>> >can be passed on to the consumer (*no* part of corporate income tax can be 
>> >passed on to the consumer.)
>> 
>> WHY?  If you double the tax on a commodity you can't pass it on  to
>> the consumer?   WHY?
>
>A percentage of the consumers will refuse to pay the higher price.  They'll either find an alternate solution at a price they accept, or they will simply choose to do without, or make do with only half of the amount of the commodity than they would otherwise purchase.

Well would that include the power companies or the cost of gas and
cable?  How about rent or the cost of a home?  How about a 70% tax on
Amazon and Walmart you don't believe they would raise prices?


>
>At the same time, the business can't always afford to eat the entire cost of the increase in raw costs.

Most couldn't afford to eat having their tax rate doubled.
>
>I think you'll find that in most cases where costs of doing business increase, part of the cost is passed on, and the remainder comes out of the profits.  Increase these costs too much, and the business will cease to be able to function.

Well I agree with that.  The I hope people with retirement 401s like
it not to grow much or even lose value.

What does she plan of spending these taxes on?  

I wouldn't mind a moderate tax increase if 100% of it went toward
reducing the debt principal.  The interest on that is about $270
billion this year.


>
>
>> 
>> The Trumps tariffs should not make prices go up?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> >
>> >Both of you need to keep your fucking economics-illiterate mouths shut on 
>> >this.  Neither one of you knows one fucking thing about tax incidence.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246139

FromTed <ted@sam.street>
Date2019-01-07 04:17 +0000
Message-ID<133170539568520101.992711ted-sam.street@news.alt.net>
In reply to#246096
Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> wrote:
> On 1/6/2019 5:32 PM, Snit wrote:
>> On 1/6/19 6:09 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 18:04:52 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 1/6/19 5:58 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:37:19 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 1/6/19 5:30 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:12:54 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:51 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 23:32:03 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> articles exposing Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and whom Russia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them on request), so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shenanigans in 2020. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to silence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> him and other Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom depends on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting person. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew-found celebrity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1980s when our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going back to what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> techniques...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> program or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benefits, no allowed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level.  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Business
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Are the rules
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>>>>> income
>>>>>>>>>>>>> where they do not?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>>>>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 20K do
>>>>>>>>>>>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just the >>>>>>>>>>> 20K?
>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow >>>>>>>>>> businesses to
>>>>>>>>>>> deduct their expenses but people to not be able to?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> It would be nice to have the options available to me when I was
>>>>>>>>>> self-employed.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> We just had a roof done.  Can you imagine if they had to pay 70% on
>>>>>>>>> the total cost instad on just the profit.  The majority of what I piad
>>>>>>>>> went toward materials.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Why assume a flat tax would be at 70%?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sorry you are going to the Rudy level.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It is a valid question. You spoke of a flat tax. Now the percent has
>>>>>> been given -- 70%. Why assume a 70% level for a flat tax?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sorry she wanted a 70% tax and not on a flat tax scale.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In  discussion one time a universal flat tax would be 14-16%.
>>>> 
>>>> And the roofer would not be paying 70% taxes... they would be paying
>>>> about 15%. They can work that into the cost, just as we work the cost
>>>> into goods we buy.
>>> 
>>> The wouldn't a business taxed 70% also work that into the cost.  Power
>>> companies and such?  Gas companies?  Steel companies?
>>> What company do you think is taxed at 70%? But the idea that they have
>>> to > cover their costs is NOT a reason to not tax them. No more bribes
>>> and > tithing to the rich.
> 
> Neither one of you clueless economics-illiterate fuckwits knows what
> you're bullshitting about.
> 
> First, the economics-illiterate idiot Ocasio-Cortez didn't specify
> whether she meant a 70% marginal rate or a 70% flat rate.  That lack of
> specification is one of the proofs that she is a fucking idiot.  She
> doesn't know the difference.  She really doesn't - that is clear.
> 
> Secondly, businesses cannot simply "pass along" any taxes they incur. 
> Tax incidence depends on price elasticity - something you do not know
> anything about - and typically for most goods, only part of taxes imposed
> on sales can be passed on to the consumer (*no* part of corporate income
> tax can be passed on to the consumer.)
> 
> Both of you need to keep your fucking economics-illiterate mouths shut on
> this.  Neither one of you knows one fucking thing about tax incidence.

Thanks for sharing your expertise with us, Rudy. You're right -- you're the
only one here qualified to offer an educated opinion on economics. But
people still like to pretend their pet theories have some sort of validity.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246146

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2019-01-07 04:56 +0000
Message-ID<g9g4gaF1tv3U4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#246139
Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
> Rudy Canoza <cap@philhendrie.con> wrote:
>> On 1/6/2019 5:32 PM, Snit wrote:
>>> On 1/6/19 6:09 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 18:04:52 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/6/19 5:58 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:37:19 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 5:30 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:12:54 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:51 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 23:32:03 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> articles exposing Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and whom Russia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them on request), so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shenanigans in 2020. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to silence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> him and other Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> freedom depends on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting person. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew-found celebrity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1980s when our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going back to what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> techniques...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> program or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benefits, no allowed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level.  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Business
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are the rules
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>>>>> income
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where they do not?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20K do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just the >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20K?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> businesses to
>>>>>>>>>>>> deduct their expenses but people to not be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> It would be nice to have the options available to me when I was
>>>>>>>>>>> self-employed.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> We just had a roof done.  Can you imagine if they had to pay 70% on
>>>>>>>>>> the total cost instad on just the profit.  The majority of what I piad
>>>>>>>>>> went toward materials.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Why assume a flat tax would be at 70%?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sorry you are going to the Rudy level.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It is a valid question. You spoke of a flat tax. Now the percent has
>>>>>>> been given -- 70%. Why assume a 70% level for a flat tax?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sorry she wanted a 70% tax and not on a flat tax scale.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In  discussion one time a universal flat tax would be 14-16%.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And the roofer would not be paying 70% taxes... they would be paying
>>>>> about 15%. They can work that into the cost, just as we work the cost
>>>>> into goods we buy.
>>>> 
>>>> The wouldn't a business taxed 70% also work that into the cost.  Power
>>>> companies and such?  Gas companies?  Steel companies?
>>>> What company do you think is taxed at 70%? But the idea that they have
>>>> to > cover their costs is NOT a reason to not tax them. No more bribes
>>>> and > tithing to the rich.
>> 
>> Neither one of you clueless economics-illiterate fuckwits knows what
>> you're bullshitting about.
>> 
>> First, the economics-illiterate idiot Ocasio-Cortez didn't specify
>> whether she meant a 70% marginal rate or a 70% flat rate.  That lack of
>> specification is one of the proofs that she is a fucking idiot.  She
>> doesn't know the difference.  She really doesn't - that is clear.
>> 
>> Secondly, businesses cannot simply "pass along" any taxes they incur. 
>> Tax incidence depends on price elasticity - something you do not know
>> anything about - and typically for most goods, only part of taxes imposed
>> on sales can be passed on to the consumer (*no* part of corporate income
>> tax can be passed on to the consumer.)
>> 
>> Both of you need to keep your fucking economics-illiterate mouths shut on
>> this.  Neither one of you knows one fucking thing about tax incidence.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your expertise with us, Rudy. You're right -- you're the
> only one here qualified to offer an educated opinion on economics. But
> people still like to pretend their pet theories have some sort of validity.
> 

:)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246061

FromTed <ted@sam.street>
Date2019-01-07 00:45 +0000
Message-ID<1936368972568514628.259619ted-sam.street@news.alt.net>
In reply to#246030
Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 23:32:03 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
> 
>> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo articles exposing Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color and whom Russia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost them on request), so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his shenanigans in 2020. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to silence him and other Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our freedom depends on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an interesting person. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her knew-found celebrity
>>>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> It?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before the 1980s when our
>>>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to going back to what
>>>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and techniques...
>>>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and the like.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want this program or
>>>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax benefits, no allowed
>>>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum amount that is
>>>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I am open to
>>>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level.  Business
>>>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that special
>>>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income? Are the rules
>>>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on all income
>>>>> where they do not?
>>>>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this service
>>>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is 20K do
>>>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just the 20K?
>>>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>>> 
>>> Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>>> 
>>> And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow businesses to
>>> deduct their expenses but people to not be able to?
>> 
>> 
>> It would be nice to have the options available to me when I was
>> self-employed.
> 
> 
> We just had a roof done.  Can you imagine if they had to pay 70% on
> the total cost instad on just the profit.  The majority of what I piad
> went toward materials.


Are you self-employed?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246031

FromMattb <trdell12345@gmail.com>
Date2019-01-06 15:51 -0800
Message-ID<cr453e9615bcb67hbm2g4g9fg4ku38hq5e@4ax.com>
In reply to#246012
On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 16:07:03 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
wrote:

>On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo articles exposing Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color and whom Russia
>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost them on request), so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his shenanigans in 2020. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to silence him and other Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our freedom depends on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an interesting person. We
>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her knew-found celebrity
>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before the 1980s when our
>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to going back to what
>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and techniques...
>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and the like.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want this program or
>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax benefits, no allowed
>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum amount that is
>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I am open to
>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level.  Business
>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that special
>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>>>
>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income? Are the rules
>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on all income
>>> where they do not?
>> 
>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this service
>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is 20K do
>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just the 20K?
>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>
>Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>
>And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow businesses to 
>deduct their expenses but people to not be able to?

Then what you are saying is I charge 100K for services I need pay 70K
in taxes?   Do you have ant idea what I would have to charge to supply
these services?  Should I cut wages and benefits?  

I don't believe you understand how a business works.  All you see a
freebies from taxes.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246038

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2019-01-06 17:11 -0700
Message-ID<g9fjpdFt551U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#246031
On 1/6/19 4:51 PM, Mattb wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 16:07:03 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo articles exposing Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color and whom Russia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost them on request), so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his shenanigans in 2020. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to silence him and other Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our freedom depends on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an interesting person. We
>>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her knew-found celebrity
>>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before the 1980s when our
>>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to going back to what
>>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and techniques...
>>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and the like.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want this program or
>>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax benefits, no allowed
>>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum amount that is
>>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I am open to
>>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level.  Business
>>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that special
>>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>>>>
>>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income? Are the rules
>>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on all income
>>>> where they do not?
>>>
>>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this service
>>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is 20K do
>>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just the 20K?
>>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>>
>> Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>>
>> And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow businesses to
>> deduct their expenses but people to not be able to?
> 
> Then what you are saying is I charge 100K for services I need pay 70K
> in taxes?  

When did you say you wanted your flat tax to be 70%? I do not recall 
that and certainly do not back that.

> Do you have ant idea what I would have to charge to supply
> these services?  Should I cut wages and benefits?

If you want labor you should cover the full cost and not have the 
government subsidize it, esp. for a large corporation who can afford it. 
The fact we allow that now is insane.

> I don't believe you understand how a business works.  All you see a
> freebies from taxes.

Your conclusion there is based on GIGO. You make things up about my 
views and then assume your conclusions are based on my actual views.

Not a very reasonable thing for you to do.


-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246046

FromMattb <trdell12345@gmail.com>
Date2019-01-06 16:30 -0800
Message-ID<d9753edcgua1vkckj6ambjj148irg0992u@4ax.com>
In reply to#246038
On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:11:23 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
wrote:

>On 1/6/19 4:51 PM, Mattb wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 16:07:03 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo articles exposing Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color and whom Russia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost them on request), so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his shenanigans in 2020. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to silence him and other Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our freedom depends on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an interesting person. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her knew-found celebrity
>>>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before the 1980s when our
>>>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to going back to what
>>>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and techniques...
>>>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and the like.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want this program or
>>>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax benefits, no allowed
>>>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum amount that is
>>>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I am open to
>>>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level.  Business
>>>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that special
>>>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income? Are the rules
>>>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on all income
>>>>> where they do not?
>>>>
>>>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this service
>>>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is 20K do
>>>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just the 20K?
>>>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>>>
>>> Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>>>
>>> And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow businesses to
>>> deduct their expenses but people to not be able to?
>> 
>> Then what you are saying is I charge 100K for services I need pay 70K
>> in taxes?  
>
>When did you say you wanted your flat tax to be 70%? I do not recall 
>that and certainly do not back that.

Are you saying Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is calling for a flat tax?

>
>> Do you have ant idea what I would have to charge to supply
>> these services?  Should I cut wages and benefits?
>
>If you want labor you should cover the full cost and not have the 
>government subsidize it, esp. for a large corporation who can afford it. 
>The fact we allow that now is insane.

Goal post moving?  
>
>> I don't believe you understand how a business works.  All you see a
>> freebies from taxes.
>
>Your conclusion there is based on GIGO. You make things up about my 
>views and then assume your conclusions are based on my actual views.
>
>Not a very reasonable thing for you to do.

You keep going this way and that.  

I don't believe you understand how a business works.

You watch to much CNN.  

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246053

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2019-01-06 17:36 -0700
Message-ID<g9fl88FtcvuU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#246046
On 1/6/19 5:30 PM, Mattb wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:11:23 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/6/19 4:51 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 16:07:03 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo articles exposing Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color and whom Russia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost them on request), so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his shenanigans in 2020. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to silence him and other Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our freedom depends on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an interesting person. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her knew-found celebrity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before the 1980s when our
>>>>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to going back to what
>>>>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and techniques...
>>>>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and the like.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want this program or
>>>>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax benefits, no allowed
>>>>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum amount that is
>>>>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I am open to
>>>>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level.  Business
>>>>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that special
>>>>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income? Are the rules
>>>>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on all income
>>>>>> where they do not?
>>>>>
>>>>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this service
>>>>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is 20K do
>>>>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just the 20K?
>>>>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>>>>
>>>> Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>>>>
>>>> And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow businesses to
>>>> deduct their expenses but people to not be able to?
>>>
>>> Then what you are saying is I charge 100K for services I need pay 70K
>>> in taxes?
>>
>> When did you say you wanted your flat tax to be 70%? I do not recall
>> that and certainly do not back that.
> 
> Are you saying Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is calling for a flat tax?

Of course not... I am in reference to this discussion where you said "I 
would suggest a flat tax" and we started talking about it.

>>> Do you have ant idea what I would have to charge to supply
>>> these services?  Should I cut wages and benefits?
>>
>> If you want labor you should cover the full cost and not have the
>> government subsidize it, esp. for a large corporation who can afford it.
>> The fact we allow that now is insane.
> 
> Goal post moving?

You brought up wages. I am noting if you want to buy labor you can... 
but we should stop having government subsidize it for large 
corporations. Did you miss how that applies?

>>> I don't believe you understand how a business works.  All you see a
>>> freebies from taxes.
>>
>> Your conclusion there is based on GIGO. You make things up about my
>> views and then assume your conclusions are based on my actual views.
>>
>> Not a very reasonable thing for you to do.
> 
> You keep going this way and that.
> 
> I don't believe you understand how a business works.
> 
> You watch to much CNN.

Based on your failures you make up stories about me. Got it.

Oh, and both my wife and I have had our own businesses... your claim is 
utterly without merit.


-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246070

FromMattb <trdell12345@gmail.com>
Date2019-01-06 17:03 -0800
Message-ID<j2953eh9ql2s40dm8uhfp6bol6r1h5v71t@4ax.com>
In reply to#246053
On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:36:24 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
wrote:

>On 1/6/19 5:30 PM, Mattb wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:11:23 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 1/6/19 4:51 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 16:07:03 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo articles exposing Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color and whom Russia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost them on request), so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his shenanigans in 2020. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to silence him and other Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our freedom depends on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an interesting person. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her knew-found celebrity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before the 1980s when our
>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to going back to what
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and techniques...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and the like.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want this program or
>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax benefits, no allowed
>>>>>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum amount that is
>>>>>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I am open to
>>>>>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level.  Business
>>>>>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that special
>>>>>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income? Are the rules
>>>>>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on all income
>>>>>>> where they do not?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this service
>>>>>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is 20K do
>>>>>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just the 20K?
>>>>>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>>>>>
>>>>> Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow businesses to
>>>>> deduct their expenses but people to not be able to?
>>>>
>>>> Then what you are saying is I charge 100K for services I need pay 70K
>>>> in taxes?
>>>
>>> When did you say you wanted your flat tax to be 70%? I do not recall
>>> that and certainly do not back that.
>> 
>> Are you saying Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is calling for a flat tax?
>
>Of course not... I am in reference to this discussion where you said "I 
>would suggest a flat tax" and we started talking about it.

Ok  Where did I suggest a 70% flat tax?  
>
>>>> Do you have ant idea what I would have to charge to supply
>>>> these services?  Should I cut wages and benefits?
>>>
>>> If you want labor you should cover the full cost and not have the
>>> government subsidize it, esp. for a large corporation who can afford it.
>>> The fact we allow that now is insane.
>> 
>> Goal post moving?
>
>You brought up wages. I am noting if you want to buy labor you can... 
>but we should stop having government subsidize it for large 
>corporations. Did you miss how that applies?

Yes I did as it applies to taxable income.  Somehow we went from
Taxable income to government subsidized wages.
>
>>>> I don't believe you understand how a business works.  All you see a
>>>> freebies from taxes.
>>>
>>> Your conclusion there is based on GIGO. You make things up about my
>>> views and then assume your conclusions are based on my actual views.
>>>
>>> Not a very reasonable thing for you to do.
>> 
>> You keep going this way and that.
>> 
>> I don't believe you understand how a business works.
>> 
>> You watch to much CNN.
>
>Based on your failures you make up stories about me. Got it.
>
>Oh, and both my wife and I have had our own businesses... your claim is 
>utterly without merit.

The you do not want to deduct the wages you pay employees, the cost of
employee benefits, the cost of materials and other business related
expenses before you figure your taxable income?  

You do know we are talking taxable income and how to figure it here
correct?   

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246080

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2019-01-06 18:30 -0700
Message-ID<g9fodgFu1t8U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#246070
On 1/6/19 6:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:36:24 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/6/19 5:30 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:11:23 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/6/19 4:51 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 16:07:03 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo articles exposing Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color and whom Russia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost them on request), so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his shenanigans in 2020. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to silence him and other Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our freedom depends on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an interesting person. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her knew-found celebrity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before the 1980s when our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to going back to what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and techniques...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and the like.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want this program or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax benefits, no allowed
>>>>>>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum amount that is
>>>>>>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I am open to
>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level.  Business
>>>>>>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that special
>>>>>>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income? Are the rules
>>>>>>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on all income
>>>>>>>> where they do not?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this service
>>>>>>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is 20K do
>>>>>>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just the 20K?
>>>>>>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow businesses to
>>>>>> deduct their expenses but people to not be able to?
>>>>>
>>>>> Then what you are saying is I charge 100K for services I need pay 70K
>>>>> in taxes?
>>>>
>>>> When did you say you wanted your flat tax to be 70%? I do not recall
>>>> that and certainly do not back that.
>>>
>>> Are you saying Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is calling for a flat tax?
>>
>> Of course not... I am in reference to this discussion where you said "I
>> would suggest a flat tax" and we started talking about it.
> 
> Ok  Where did I suggest a 70% flat tax?
>>
>>>>> Do you have ant idea what I would have to charge to supply
>>>>> these services?  Should I cut wages and benefits?
>>>>
>>>> If you want labor you should cover the full cost and not have the
>>>> government subsidize it, esp. for a large corporation who can afford it.
>>>> The fact we allow that now is insane.
>>>
>>> Goal post moving?
>>
>> You brought up wages. I am noting if you want to buy labor you can...
>> but we should stop having government subsidize it for large
>> corporations. Did you miss how that applies?
> 
> Yes I did as it applies to taxable income.  Somehow we went from
> Taxable income to government subsidized wages.

As I said, I was responding to your comment on wages. The answer is, no, 
you should not cut wages. If you want to buy labor you should pay the 
full cost and not expect the government to keep subsidizing labor costs.

>>>>> I don't believe you understand how a business works.  All you see a
>>>>> freebies from taxes.
>>>>
>>>> Your conclusion there is based on GIGO. You make things up about my
>>>> views and then assume your conclusions are based on my actual views.
>>>>
>>>> Not a very reasonable thing for you to do.
>>>
>>> You keep going this way and that.
>>>
>>> I don't believe you understand how a business works.
>>>
>>> You watch to much CNN.
>>
>> Based on your failures you make up stories about me. Got it.
>>
>> Oh, and both my wife and I have had our own businesses... your claim is
>> utterly without merit.
> 
> The you do not want to deduct the wages you pay employees, the cost of
> employee benefits, the cost of materials and other business related
> expenses before you figure your taxable income?

I *want* to pay no taxes at all. But I understand the reality that we 
need taxes.

> You do know we are talking taxable income and how to figure it here
> correct?

Taxable income for businesses and individuals. What I am noting is that 
if we have deductions for business expenses they should be actual 
business expenses (not food and entertainment and other living expenses) 
and that we should have personal income also have personal expenses be 
deducted. Same rules for both (though the details of course are 
different). No more having people create corporations to pay their 
living expenses and get it deducted.


-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They 
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel 
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#246086

FromMattb <trdell12345@gmail.com>
Date2019-01-06 17:37 -0800
Message-ID<a2b53ele6k3kjlqf07gsf3cbt4avtd4gjl@4ax.com>
In reply to#246080
On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 18:30:24 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
wrote:

>On 1/6/19 6:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:36:24 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 1/6/19 5:30 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 17:11:23 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:51 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 16:07:03 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/6/19 4:03 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:30:10 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Jan 2019 18:13:11 GMT, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mattb <trdell12345@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:00:13 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 9:36 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:09:31 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 6:56 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:48:00 -0700, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/5/19 4:28 PM, Mattb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC), Ted <ted@sam.street> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've already posted links to NYT, HuffPo, and WaPo articles exposing Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanders as a misogynist who ignores people of color and whom Russia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported during the 2016 primary (and I'll repost them on request), so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's obvious that we can't allow him to repeat his shenanigans in 2020. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to take whatever steps are necessary to silence him and other Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stooges like Jill Stein and Julian Assange. Our freedom depends on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you rather Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez run?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> She is too young to be able to... but she is an interesting person. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall have to see where she goes. Will she let her knew-found celebrity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> status get to her? I hope not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think it already has suggesting a 70% tax rate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, that is what the highest tax rate was before the 1980s when our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economy started to really tank, so I would be open to going back to what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we know worked. I would also be open to other ideas and techniques...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including taxes NOT so high but blocking shelters and the like.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would suggest a flat tax that way if liberals want this program or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that they can help pay for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you going with no deductions, no corporate tax benefits, no allowed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> offshore shelters, no games at all? And then a minimum amount that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not taxed (or we help those who cannot pay it). If so I am open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing the research on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd set the starting amount just above the poverty level.  Business
>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes on profit only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Personal taxes on profit only, too ? or do you want that special
>>>>>>>>>>> entitlement only for those with their own corporations?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Define what you mean by "Personal taxes on profit only"?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Same thing you meant for businesses. You did not define it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do we tax only profit (however we define that) or all income? Are the rules
>>>>>>>>> the same go me and for Walmart? Or do I get stuck paying on all income
>>>>>>>>> where they do not?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK  Say I am hired to do a service and will get 100K for this service
>>>>>>>> yet the cost of supplies and wages cost me 80K so my profit is 20K do
>>>>>>>> you want me to pay a 70% tax rate on the whole 100K or just the 20K?
>>>>>>>> What do you believe is fair and right?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why would you pay 70% on that amount at all? Makes no sense.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And you did not answer my question: do you want to allow businesses to
>>>>>>> deduct their expenses but people to not be able to?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then what you are saying is I charge 100K for services I need pay 70K
>>>>>> in taxes?
>>>>>
>>>>> When did you say you wanted your flat tax to be 70%? I do not recall
>>>>> that and certainly do not back that.
>>>>
>>>> Are you saying Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is calling for a flat tax?
>>>
>>> Of course not... I am in reference to this discussion where you said "I
>>> would suggest a flat tax" and we started talking about it.
>> 
>> Ok  Where did I suggest a 70% flat tax?
>>>
>>>>>> Do you have ant idea what I would have to charge to supply
>>>>>> these services?  Should I cut wages and benefits?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want labor you should cover the full cost and not have the
>>>>> government subsidize it, esp. for a large corporation who can afford it.
>>>>> The fact we allow that now is insane.
>>>>
>>>> Goal post moving?
>>>
>>> You brought up wages. I am noting if you want to buy labor you can...
>>> but we should stop having government subsidize it for large
>>> corporations. Did you miss how that applies?
>> 
>> Yes I did as it applies to taxable income.  Somehow we went from
>> Taxable income to government subsidized wages.
>
>As I said, I was responding to your comment on wages. The answer is, no, 
>you should not cut wages. If you want to buy labor you should pay the 
>full cost and not expect the government to keep subsidizing labor costs.

OK do you believe a company should have to include the cost of
employee wages and benefits in it's taxable income.  Yes or NO.


>
>>>>>> I don't believe you understand how a business works.  All you see a
>>>>>> freebies from taxes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your conclusion there is based on GIGO. You make things up about my
>>>>> views and then assume your conclusions are based on my actual views.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not a very reasonable thing for you to do.
>>>>
>>>> You keep going this way and that.
>>>>
>>>> I don't believe you understand how a business works.
>>>>
>>>> You watch to much CNN.
>>>
>>> Based on your failures you make up stories about me. Got it.
>>>
>>> Oh, and both my wife and I have had our own businesses... your claim is
>>> utterly without merit.
>> 
>> The you do not want to deduct the wages you pay employees, the cost of
>> employee benefits, the cost of materials and other business related
>> expenses before you figure your taxable income?
>
>I *want* to pay no taxes at all. But I understand the reality that we 
>need taxes.

Well seems you don't want to answer this question.   Many liberals no
doubt pay no taxes except sales tax.  They are the ones that yell for
more freebies.
>
>> You do know we are talking taxable income and how to figure it here
>> correct?
>
>Taxable income for businesses and individuals. What I am noting is that 
>if we have deductions for business expenses they should be actual 
>business expenses (not food and entertainment and other living expenses) 
>and that we should have personal income also have personal expenses be 
>deducted. Same rules for both (though the details of course are 
>different). No more having people create corporations to pay their 
>living expenses and get it deducted.

Forget it.  You just want freebies to buy votes for the dems.  

She won't get what she want anyway.  

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