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Groups > alt.atheism > #2167371 > unrolled thread

Atheism is Witchcraft

Started byThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
First post2016-09-11 12:43 -0700
Last post2016-09-15 23:22 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 475 — 42 participants

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Contents

  Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-11 12:43 -0700
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Davej <galt_57@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-11 13:06 -0700
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft WeHang FagZ And Jews Too <macabbeus@gmail.com> - 2016-09-11 13:27 -0700
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-11 23:44 +0000
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 16:14 -0700
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-24 18:18 -0500
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 16:41 -0700
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2016-09-25 08:45 -0500
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-25 12:22 -0400
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2016-09-26 15:58 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-26 19:07 -0400
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-27 06:10 +0000
                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-27 18:42 +0000
                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-27 17:14 -0400
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-28 09:44 +1000
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 00:26 -0700
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-28 17:41 +0000
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Dreamer In Colore <dreamerincolore@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-26 17:17 -0400
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-26 19:09 -0400
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> - 2016-09-11 16:43 -0400
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-11 23:20 -0400
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-12 00:38 -0700
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-11 14:13 -0700
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Normal Human <NH@....> - 2016-09-12 08:01 +1000
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-11 15:24 -0700
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-11 16:28 -0600
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-12 00:06 +0000
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-12 07:31 +0200
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-12 12:57 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-12 08:57 -0500
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-12 14:26 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-12 19:18 +0200
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-12 12:37 -0500
                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-12 22:43 +0200
                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-12 19:14 -0700
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-12 22:18 +0000
                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 06:45 +0200
                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-12 23:56 -0500
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 08:16 +0200
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-13 00:07 -0700
                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 22:00 +0200
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-13 20:53 -0700
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-14 20:15 +0200
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-15 01:34 +0200
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-15 08:23 +0200
                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-15 03:33 -0400
                                        Re: Theism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-15 11:29 -0600
                                          Re: Theism is Witchcraft John Locke <johnnydemon666@demonmail.com> - 2016-09-15 11:14 -0700
                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-15 20:44 +0200
                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-16 06:34 +1000
                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-15 20:02 -0400
                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-15 19:05 -0500
                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-16 10:25 +1000
                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-15 22:11 -0400
                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 19:25 -0700
                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-16 06:20 +0200
                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 22:57 -0700
                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 08:16 +0200
                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-17 07:01 -0400
                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-17 11:54 +0000
                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-18 09:55 +1000
                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-18 04:26 -0400
                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-18 16:15 +0200
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-18 11:29 -0400
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-19 09:59 +1000
                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-19 03:25 +0200
                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-18 20:56 -0600
                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-19 00:37 -0700
                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 00:48 -0400
                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-19 16:11 +1000
                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 15:28 -0400
                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-20 11:37 +1000
                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 23:11 -0400
                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 12:12 +1000
                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 03:57 -0400
                                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 19:14 +1000
                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 10:37 -0400
                                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 09:28 +1000
                                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-22 00:12 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 03:50 -0400
                                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 18:17 +1000
                                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 02:19 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 10:13 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 12:37 +1000
                                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-23 14:59 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-24 10:35 +1000
                                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-25 05:55 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-25 05:13 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-25 19:20 +0200
                                                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-25 17:16 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-26 06:44 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-25 22:40 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-26 17:56 +1000
                                                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-26 23:09 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-27 19:02 +1000
                                                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-27 20:23 +0200
                                                                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-28 10:18 +1000
                                                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-28 03:34 +0200
                                                                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-28 11:41 +1000
                                                                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-28 20:34 +0200
                                                                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-28 04:48 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-28 18:10 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-29 10:07 +1000
                                                                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-29 08:04 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-27 06:43 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-27 19:06 +1000
                                                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-27 05:08 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Dreamer In Colore <dreamerincolore@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-27 20:28 -0400
                                                                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-28 01:17 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-27 23:55 -0400
                                                                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-28 15:04 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Dreamer In Colore <dreamerincolore@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-28 16:06 -0400
                                                                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-29 00:03 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 00:38 -0400
                                                                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 00:37 -0400
                                                                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-29 15:48 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 23:59 -0400
                                                                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-28 11:50 +1000
                                                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-27 22:30 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-28 14:58 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Dreamer In Colore <dreamerincolore@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-28 16:07 -0400
                                                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Dreamer In Colore <dreamerincolore@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-28 16:02 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-27 10:07 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-27 18:10 -0700
                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-19 16:08 +1000
                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-19 08:53 +0200
                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 15:36 -0400
                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-20 17:27 +1000
                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-20 10:33 -0400
                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-20 09:40 -0500
                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 03:58 -0400
                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 12:05 +1000
                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 04:10 -0400
                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-19 20:31 +0000
                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-19 23:14 +0200
                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-20 00:15 +0000
                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-20 11:51 +1000
                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 23:14 -0400
                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-20 23:38 +0200
                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-20 22:31 -0700
                                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-21 01:20 -0700
                                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-21 05:43 -0500
                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-21 14:27 +0000
                                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-21 10:09 -0500
                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-21 11:07 -0700
                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 04:16 -0400
                                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-21 21:42 +0200
                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 16:22 -0400
                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 10:11 +1000
                                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-22 08:34 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-21 23:55 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-22 17:50 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 17:37 +1000
                                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-22 22:23 +0200
                                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 12:38 +1000
                                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-25 06:20 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 02:28 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-22 22:11 +0200
                                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> - 2016-09-22 22:25 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-23 04:36 +0200
                                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 16:18 +1000
                                                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 02:38 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 18:20 +1000
                                                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-23 09:30 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 18:17 +1000
                                                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-23 02:31 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-24 10:47 +1000
                                                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-23 18:43 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-24 04:29 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-24 17:29 +1000
                                                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-23 23:20 -0600
                                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-23 16:16 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-23 15:05 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-24 02:22 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-24 16:26 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-25 05:32 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-25 15:50 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-25 21:42 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-26 01:05 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 15:30 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-22 18:14 -0500
                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-21 17:36 -0700
                                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "%" <persent@gmail.com> - 2016-09-21 17:55 -0700
                                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-22 01:16 +0000
                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 04:02 -0400
                                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 17:41 +1000
                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 10:18 -0400
                                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 11:26 +1000
                                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-23 04:51 +0200
                                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 22:53 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 16:35 +1000
                                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-24 02:22 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 17:08 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-24 18:33 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 19:39 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 22:52 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-23 09:53 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> - 2016-09-23 12:52 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-23 21:49 +0000
                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 09:30 +1000
                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-20 20:12 -0700
                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 21:47 +0100
                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 04:18 -0700
                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 04:18 -0700
                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 04:19 -0700
                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2016-09-17 10:21 -0400
                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-17 16:28 +0000
                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 18:52 +0200
                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2016-09-17 13:57 -0400
                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-18 09:57 +1000
                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-18 00:20 +0000
                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-18 06:20 +0200
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 23:36 -0700
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-18 15:26 +0000
                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-18 20:06 +0200
                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-19 20:19 +0000
                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-19 23:22 +0200
                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-19 23:56 +0000
                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ted&Alice <sam.m.tedesco@gmail.com> - 2016-09-20 00:18 +0000
                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-20 12:32 +0000
                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-21 05:14 +0200
                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-21 14:15 +0000
                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 10:13 +1000
                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 04:03 -0400
                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2016-09-22 11:51 -0500
                                                                            Re: Theism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-22 11:04 -0600
                                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 14:10 -0400
                                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-22 17:55 -0700
                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2016-09-20 17:58 -0400
                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-21 01:03 +0000
                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-18 04:33 -0400
                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-18 16:04 +0200
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-18 15:31 +0000
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-18 11:31 -0400
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-19 00:28 -0700
                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Hot-Text" <hot-text@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-01 20:26 -0500
                          To A Atheism The Science Of Language Is Rrelativity "Hot-Text" <hot-text@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-19 15:57 -0500
                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Kurt <passerby31416@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 20:19 -0700
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-12 15:31 -0700
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-12 19:13 -0700
                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 07:01 +0200
                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-12 22:29 -0700
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 08:21 +0200
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-13 00:05 -0700
                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-19 18:59 +0200
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-20 00:23 +0000
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-19 17:48 -0700
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-20 08:00 +0200
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-20 12:56 +0000
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-13 07:49 +0000
                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 18:03 +0200
                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-13 21:00 -0700
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-14 06:27 +0000
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-14 02:45 -0500
                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-14 11:14 +0000
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-14 06:44 -0500
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-14 12:31 +0000
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-14 07:57 -0500
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-14 15:02 +0000
                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 03:02 -0700
                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-15 15:38 +0000
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 03:00 -0700
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-15 15:29 +0000
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 02:55 -0700
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-15 14:57 +0000
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> - 2016-09-15 19:37 +0100
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-14 01:34 -0700
                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-14 11:16 +0000
                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-14 19:45 +0200
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-14 14:43 -0500
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-16 07:01 +0200
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 22:58 -0700
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "%" <persent@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 23:13 -0700
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-16 03:49 -0500
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-16 08:00 +0200
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-25 06:40 +0200
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Hot-Text" <hot-text@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-16 18:57 -0500
                    Re: Theism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-16 22:06 -0600
                      "Wisely Non-Theist" "Billy_Ray_Ferrell_USA-VP_2016" <billyrferrell@minpin.mshome.net> - 2016-09-17 00:32 -0500
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2016-09-12 17:55 -0400
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> - 2016-09-11 19:08 -0400
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hypatiab7 <hypatiab7@comcast.net> - 2016-09-11 15:40 -0700
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hypatiab7 <hypatiab7@comcast.net> - 2016-09-11 15:26 -0700
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft default <default@defaulter.net> - 2016-09-12 07:19 -0400
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 00:27 -0700
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 00:34 -0700
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 09:07 -0700
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 09:21 -0700
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 09:42 -0700
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-14 10:21 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-14 14:37 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-14 12:06 -0700
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hypatiab7 <hypatiab7@comcast.net> - 2016-09-16 22:42 -0700
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Locke <johnnydemon666@demonmail.com> - 2016-09-13 10:15 -0700
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 11:45 -0700
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hypatiab7 <hypatiab7@comcast.net> - 2016-09-16 22:57 -0700
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-14 09:10 +1000
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-13 17:21 -0600
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-13 19:59 -0400
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-14 03:15 +0200
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-13 20:33 -0500
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-13 22:09 -0400
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-13 20:55 -0700
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-14 20:47 +1000
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> - 2016-09-14 00:26 -0400
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-14 01:16 +0000
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-13 22:01 -0400
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-13 21:12 -0500
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-15 09:32 +1000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-14 17:38 -0600
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 23:32 -0400
                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-14 23:15 -0600
                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-22 17:50 -0700
                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-15 03:33 -0400
                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-22 13:04 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 23:36 -0400
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-15 08:52 +0200
                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-15 18:01 +1000
                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 02:50 -0700
                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-15 22:48 +0200
                        Re: Theism is Witchcraft Virgil <VIRGIL@VIRGIL.com> - 2016-09-15 15:02 -0600
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 19:23 -0700
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2016-09-16 02:58 +0000
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-16 08:16 +0200
                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-16 01:15 -0700
                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2016-09-16 12:50 -0400
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-17 01:38 +0000
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2016-09-17 10:21 -0400
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-17 16:42 +0000
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-15 23:41 -0700
                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-18 13:26 -0700
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-18 21:01 -0600
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 00:49 -0400
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-19 17:31 -0700
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 23:16 -0400
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-19 21:38 -0700
                                      Re: Theism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-19 23:37 -0600
                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-19 23:58 -0700
                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-20 01:04 -0700
                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-20 10:36 -0400
                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-20 09:59 -0700
                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-20 15:11 -0400
                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-20 18:12 -0700
                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-20 22:28 -0700
                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-21 01:16 -0700
                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-20 00:58 -0700
                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-20 10:34 -0400
                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-20 18:38 +0000
                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-20 15:14 -0400
                                            Re: Theism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-20 13:46 -0600
                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-20 20:46 +0000
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-19 00:33 -0700
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-15 22:52 -0700
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-15 17:45 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-15 17:15 -0500
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-15 21:57 -0400
                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-16 04:23 +0000
                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-16 17:06 -0400
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-16 16:11 -0500
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-16 21:51 +0000
                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-16 21:00 -0400
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-17 01:56 +0000
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 08:30 +0200
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-17 07:10 -0400
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 04:14 -0700
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 16:25 +0200
                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 16:44 -0700
                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-17 19:42 -0500
                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-18 06:50 +0200
                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 23:24 -0700
                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-18 20:14 +0200
                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-18 15:06 -0400
                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-30 06:33 +0200
                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-29 23:27 -0700
                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-30 02:59 -0400
                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-30 00:43 -0700
                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-30 07:41 -0400
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-01 11:39 +1000
                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-30 23:16 -0400
                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-01 14:53 +1000
                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-01 04:48 -0400
                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-02 10:40 +1100
                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-01 20:49 -0400
                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-10-02 13:46 +0000
                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-10-02 23:14 +0000
                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-03 12:15 +1100
                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-02 21:25 -0400
                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-03 13:43 +1100
                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-30 11:48 -0700
                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-01 10:10 -0700
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-01 10:42 -0700
                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-10-01 19:09 -0700
                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-30 02:54 -0400
                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-30 02:06 -0500
                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-30 11:17 -0700
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-30 14:07 -0500
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-30 23:11 -0400
                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-01 08:52 +0200
                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-01 05:00 -0400
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-02 07:39 +0200
                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-02 02:24 -0400
                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-10-02 11:53 +0000
                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-10-02 09:01 -0400
                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-02 18:02 +0200
                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-10-02 11:02 -0700
                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-10-02 19:33 -0700
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-17 12:27 -0700
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-17 17:26 +0000
                                    Re: Theism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-17 11:48 -0600
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-17 12:54 -0500
                                      Re: Theism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-17 12:47 -0600
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 20:50 +0200
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-17 17:31 -0400
                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-18 00:41 +0000
                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-18 15:36 +0000
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-17 12:00 -0700
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-17 19:27 -0700
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-17 17:25 -0400
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-18 00:32 +0000
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-17 22:27 -0700
                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-18 06:35 +0000
                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-18 07:49 -0500
                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-18 06:35 -0700
                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-19 03:46 +0200
                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 00:53 -0400
                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-19 08:15 +0200
                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 15:43 -0400
                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-20 01:02 +0000
                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-20 08:21 +0200
                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-20 20:04 +0000
                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-21 04:56 +0200
                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-22 01:16 +0000
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-23 05:03 +0200
                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-24 02:42 +0000
                                                              Re: Theism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-23 23:17 -0600
                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-24 17:25 +1000
                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> - 2016-09-24 15:03 -0400
                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-25 00:32 +0000
                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-24 22:06 +0200
                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-25 00:36 +0000
                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-25 05:18 -0400
                                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-25 13:56 +0200
                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-25 16:02 +0000
                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-25 11:04 -0500
                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ted&Alice <sam.m.tedesco@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 16:23 +0000
                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-25 18:54 +0200
                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-26 09:59 +1000
                                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-26 07:35 +0200
                                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-26 15:53 +0000
                                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-27 06:27 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-27 06:10 +0000
                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-25 12:19 -0400
                                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-25 21:42 +0000
                                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-26 01:14 +0000
                                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-26 15:53 +0000
                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 00:39 -0400
                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-25 14:07 +0200
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-18 00:50 +0000
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-16 20:44 -0400
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-16 17:49 -0400
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-16 21:51 +0000
                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-16 02:49 -0400
                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-16 03:47 -0500
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-16 05:57 -0400
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-16 17:12 -0400
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-16 16:22 -0500
                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 19:00 +0200
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> - 2016-09-14 00:25 -0400
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 00:28 -0400
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-14 20:08 +0000
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-14 15:13 -0500
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-14 18:10 -0400
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-14 03:58 -0400
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft tirebiter <dontspamme666@bigfoot.com> - 2016-09-14 18:51 -0700
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-15 23:22 -0700

Page 11 of 24 — ← Prev page 1 … 9 10 [11] 12 13 … 24  Next page →


#2171496

FromJeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com>
Date2016-09-20 20:12 -0700
Message-ID<hlwdjsd2-5A1311.20121020092016@news.giganews.com>
In reply to#2171388
In article <e4dv50F3m1sU1@mid.individual.net>,
 "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 19/09/2016 16:53, Thomas Heger wrote:
> > Am 19.09.2016 08:08, schrieb Alex W.:
> >
> >>> It would be 'state crime', if you allow usual people to take part in an
> >>> execution.
> >>
> >> That is a moral judgment, not a legal one.
> >>
> > Yes. Somehow should laws represent moral judgements.
> >
> > It is necessary to allow people to act legally. This is easier to
> > achieve, if their moral judgements would not contradict the legal
> > principles.
> 
> Which is impossible.  For practical purposes alone, the law will always 
> end up being out of step with morality.  Our moral consensus is changing 
> all the time, but the law is only ever a snapshot.
> 
> A point in case: anti-nuclear activism in Germany frequently breaks the 
> law.  Activists will trespass, hinder the lawful activities of others, 
> threaten or damage private property.  It may be moral (at least from 
> their point of view), but it is also quite illegal.
> 
> 
> >
> > Usually people are capable of moral judgements, since they act in the
> > way like:
> > ' what you do not want to be done with you, you do not do to others'.
> 
> That is the golden rule, and if we all lived by it there would be far 
> fewer problems in this world.
> 
> Unfortunately, they do not.
> 
> A great many people will act to their own best interest first and 
> foremost, unless they suspect they may be caught.
> 
> 
> >
> > Another principle is what Kant called 'kathegorischer Imperativ'.
> >
> > this means roughly: an activity is justified, if you could (in
> > principle) release a law, that demands doing this by everybody all the
> > time.
> >
> > And theft - for instance - is illegal, because stealing by everybody all
> > the time would create a state, where all the people have nothing.
> 
> 
> >
> > And killing is not allowed, because the equivalent law would leave no
> > survivors.
> 
> Actually, it would by definition leave at least one survivor.
> 
> Moreover, there is a world of difference between making theft or killing 
> legal and forcing us to engage in these acts.  Just because it may be 
> legal to kill a gypsy does not mean we have to kill them.  Just because 
> it may be legal to take another man's bicycle does not mean we are 
> obliged by law to do so.
> 
> 
> >
> >>>
> >>> And usual people may not take part, even if the state allows this.
> >>>
> >>> To demand participation makes matters worse, since it demands from
> >>> innocent people to commit a crime.
> >>
> >> To start with, it is a fair assumption that no-one is innocent. We all
> >> break the law.
> >>
> >> This makes "innocent" not only a term devoid of intrinsic meaning, but
> >> also a direct emotional appeal rather than a factual description that is
> >> part of a cogent argument.
> >
> > If someone has not committed a crime, the person is innocent.
> >
> > The state creates laws, which make clear to the people, what is allowed
> > and what is not.
> >
> > These laws should be clear, easy to understand and universally valid.
> 
> Dream on.
> 
> Two words: tax law.
> 
> 
> >
> > And they should match the ethics and moral of the people and what they
> > believe is right or wrong.
> 
> Which they do not, and effectively cannot do.  Any law has to be 
> drafted, debated, amended, debated again, voted on and ratified.  This 
> can easily take years ... for every single law.  In the time that a 
> proposal has become the law of the land, the facts on the ground as well 
> as the moral consensus of the people may well have moved beyond that, 
> making the law outdated and possibly even inappropriate.
> 
> Not to mention those fast-developing situations where a law may not 
> exist to cover new situations, such as most problems involving the 
> internet or bio-ethical concerns.
> 
> 
> >
> > This is so, because then less activities are criminal, since usual
> > habits are also legal.
> 
> Not automatically, by a far shot.  The official speed limit on British 
> motorways is 70MPH, or 115KPH -- but the police do not bother to enforce 
> speeding below 80-85MPH, making our driving behaviour formally illegal. 
> The same applies to pedestrians crossing any street other than at any 
> official pedestrian crossings (aka "jaywalking") ...  and yet, that is 
> what we all of us do on a habitual basis.


Don't do it here in Los Angeles. LAPD gives out far more jaywalking 
tickets than any other major city police department. I try to let people 
know this when I see them jaywalking (often tourists, of course). 
They're usually surprised and thankful.

-- 

JD

Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream 
up a God superior to themselves. Most 
Gods have the manners and morals of a 
spoiled child.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2171806

FromJohn Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk>
Date2016-09-21 21:47 +0100
Message-ID<Ra+bDVAjHv4XFw0R@hotmail.co.uk>
In reply to#2171388
In article <e4dv50F3m1sU1@mid.individual.net>, Alex W.
<ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>On 19/09/2016 16:53, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am 19.09.2016 08:08, schrieb Alex W.:
>>
>>>> It would be 'state crime', if you allow usual people to take part in an
>>>> execution.
>>>
>>> That is a moral judgment, not a legal one.
>>>
>> Yes. Somehow should laws represent moral judgements.
>>
>> It is necessary to allow people to act legally. This is easier to
>> achieve, if their moral judgements would not contradict the legal
>> principles.
>
>Which is impossible.  For practical purposes alone, the law will always 
>end up being out of step with morality.  Our moral consensus is changing 
>all the time, but the law is only ever a snapshot.
>
>A point in case: anti-nuclear activism in Germany frequently breaks the 
>law.  Activists will trespass, hinder the lawful activities of others, 
>threaten or damage private property.  It may be moral (at least from 
>their point of view), but it is also quite illegal.
>
>
>>
>> Usually people are capable of moral judgements, since they act in the
>> way like:
>> ' what you do not want to be done with you, you do not do to others'.
>
>That is the golden rule, and if we all lived by it there would be far 
>fewer problems in this world.
>
>Unfortunately, they do not.
>
>A great many people will act to their own best interest first and 
>foremost, unless they suspect they may be caught.
>
>
>>
>> Another principle is what Kant called 'kathegorischer Imperativ'.
>>
>> this means roughly: an activity is justified, if you could (in
>> principle) release a law, that demands doing this by everybody all the
>> time.
>>
>> And theft - for instance - is illegal, because stealing by everybody all
>> the time would create a state, where all the people have nothing.
>
>
>>
>> And killing is not allowed, because the equivalent law would leave no
>> survivors.
>
>Actually, it would by definition leave at least one survivor.
>
>Moreover, there is a world of difference between making theft or killing 
>legal and forcing us to engage in these acts.  Just because it may be 
>legal to kill a gypsy does not mean we have to kill them.  Just because 
>it may be legal to take another man's bicycle does not mean we are 
>obliged by law to do so.
>
>
>>
>>>>
>>>> And usual people may not take part, even if the state allows this.
>>>>
>>>> To demand participation makes matters worse, since it demands from
>>>> innocent people to commit a crime.
>>>
>>> To start with, it is a fair assumption that no-one is innocent. We all
>>> break the law.
>>>
>>> This makes "innocent" not only a term devoid of intrinsic meaning, but
>>> also a direct emotional appeal rather than a factual description that is
>>> part of a cogent argument.
>>
>> If someone has not committed a crime, the person is innocent.
>>
>> The state creates laws, which make clear to the people, what is allowed
>> and what is not.
>>
>> These laws should be clear, easy to understand and universally valid.
>
>Dream on.
>
>Two words: tax law.
>
>
>>
>> And they should match the ethics and moral of the people and what they
>> believe is right or wrong.
>
>Which they do not, and effectively cannot do.  Any law has to be 
>drafted, debated, amended, debated again, voted on and ratified.  This 
>can easily take years ... for every single law.  In the time that a 
>proposal has become the law of the land, the facts on the ground as well 
>as the moral consensus of the people may well have moved beyond that, 
>making the law outdated and possibly even inappropriate.
>
>Not to mention those fast-developing situations where a law may not 
>exist to cover new situations, such as most problems involving the 
>internet or bio-ethical concerns.
>
>
>>
>> This is so, because then less activities are criminal, since usual
>> habits are also legal.
>
>Not automatically, by a far shot.  The official speed limit on British 
>motorways is 70MPH, or 115KPH -- but the police do not bother to enforce 
>speeding below 80-85MPH, making our driving behaviour formally illegal.

They don't want to get tied up in arguments about the accuracy of their
speed measurements if the case comes to court.

> 
>The same applies to pedestrians crossing any street other than at any 
>official pedestrian crossings (aka "jaywalking") ...  and yet, that is 
>what we all of us do on a habitual basis.

There are no laws (enforced or not) against jaywalking in the UK.

-- 
John Ritson

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2169668

FromJeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com>
Date2016-09-17 04:18 -0700
Message-ID<hlwdjsd2-186583.04181717092016@news.giganews.com>
In reply to#2169613
In article <e445djFmdedU1@mid.individual.net>,
 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:

> Am 16.09.2016 07:57, schrieb Jeanne Douglas:
> 
> >> Actually I had similar ideas earlier after reading a German version of
> >> the Koran in a 19th century translation.
> >>
> >> I found it interesting, that the Koran apparently speaks to people which
> >> are called 'Children of Israel', which Allah helped to flee from the
> >> Pharao by splitting apart the Red Sea.
> >
> > So what you're saying is that the Koran has the same stupid myths as the
> > Bible. So fucking what?
> >
> >
> >> Common Muslims cannot read this, since the Koran is written in ancient
> >> Arabic.
> >>
> >> Arabic has a difficult system of writing, since the vowels are not
> >> written. This allows to interpret the words in up to 30 different
> >> meanings. And that could allow different translations.
> >>
> >> Since German 19th century historians have no obvious bias towards any
> >> interpretation, they are kind of 'objective' source for a valid
> >> translation, while especially the Egyptians have a bias.
> >>
> >> So my - naive - question was, if Jews and Muslims have something in common.
> >>
> >> Actually there are a few things, that both religions share.
> >>
> >> For instance they share the bizarre habit called 'circumcision'.
> >
> > So what?
> >
> >
> >> Also the set of holy scripts is somehow similar.
> >
> > So what?
> 
> Well, history is a science and somehow similar to crime scene 
> investigation.
> 
> If there are no written records, you need to make (educated) guesses and 
> try to figure out, what was going on, by analysing minuscule hints.
> 
> The Islam and the Jews have both a set of scripts, they regard as holy. 
> The overall structure of this set is quite similar, only the names and 
> the content is different.
> 
> >
> >> They both forbid the consume of pig and both have the obscure punishment
> >> called 'stoning'.
> >
> > How is stoning "obsure"?
> >
> 
> 'Stoning' as an extremely brutal way of execution. It has also the 
> disadvantage to include bystanders in the process of a killing, what 
> makes the members of such a crowd literally murderers.


Yes, that's the whole fucking point. The whole community has to be 
guilty. It's basic practice with tyrannies.

It's such a universal thing that it made its way in the Hostel movies, 
where the people who paid for the chance to do anything they want to 
innocent people were not allowed to leave until they had killed someone.

-- 

JD

Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream 
up a God superior to themselves. Most 
Gods have the manners and morals of a 
spoiled child.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2169669

FromJeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com>
Date2016-09-17 04:18 -0700
Message-ID<hlwdjsd2-61872D.04185517092016@news.giganews.com>
In reply to#2169613
In article <e445djFmdedU1@mid.individual.net>,
 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:

> Am 16.09.2016 07:57, schrieb Jeanne Douglas:
> 
> >> Actually I had similar ideas earlier after reading a German version of
> >> the Koran in a 19th century translation.
> >>
> >> I found it interesting, that the Koran apparently speaks to people which
> >> are called 'Children of Israel', which Allah helped to flee from the
> >> Pharao by splitting apart the Red Sea.
> >
> > So what you're saying is that the Koran has the same stupid myths as the
> > Bible. So fucking what?
> >
> >
> >> Common Muslims cannot read this, since the Koran is written in ancient
> >> Arabic.
> >>
> >> Arabic has a difficult system of writing, since the vowels are not
> >> written. This allows to interpret the words in up to 30 different
> >> meanings. And that could allow different translations.
> >>
> >> Since German 19th century historians have no obvious bias towards any
> >> interpretation, they are kind of 'objective' source for a valid
> >> translation, while especially the Egyptians have a bias.
> >>
> >> So my - naive - question was, if Jews and Muslims have something in common.
> >>
> >> Actually there are a few things, that both religions share.
> >>
> >> For instance they share the bizarre habit called 'circumcision'.
> >
> > So what?
> >
> >
> >> Also the set of holy scripts is somehow similar.
> >
> > So what?
> 
> Well, history is a science and somehow similar to crime scene 
> investigation.
> 
> If there are no written records, you need to make (educated) guesses and 
> try to figure out, what was going on, by analysing minuscule hints.
> 
> The Islam and the Jews have both a set of scripts, they regard as holy. 
> The overall structure of this set is quite similar, only the names and 
> the content is different.
> 
> >
> >> They both forbid the consume of pig and both have the obscure punishment
> >> called 'stoning'.
> >
> > How is stoning "obsure"?
> >
> 
> 'Stoning' as an extremely brutal way of execution. It has also the 
> disadvantage to include bystanders in the process of a killing, what 
> makes the members of such a crowd literally murderers.
> 
> 
> 
> >> Another stream of observations was related to the question, to where the
> >> 'Children of Israel' went after the passage through the Red Sea.
> >
> > You mean the fictional journey that took 40 years in an area about the
> > same size as small state West Virginia? And that left not one shred of
> > evidence of millions of alleged Jews living for 40 years.
> 
> I mean the question, who these people are, which the Koran calls 
> 'Children of Israel'.


People who didn't exist can't be called anything. Duh!

-- 

JD

Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream 
up a God superior to themselves. Most 
Gods have the manners and morals of a 
spoiled child.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2169670

FromJeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com>
Date2016-09-17 04:19 -0700
Message-ID<hlwdjsd2-8B2161.04191417092016@news.giganews.com>
In reply to#2169613
In article <e445djFmdedU1@mid.individual.net>,
 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:

> Am 16.09.2016 07:57, schrieb Jeanne Douglas:
> 
> >> Actually I had similar ideas earlier after reading a German version of
> >> the Koran in a 19th century translation.
> >>
> >> I found it interesting, that the Koran apparently speaks to people which
> >> are called 'Children of Israel', which Allah helped to flee from the
> >> Pharao by splitting apart the Red Sea.
> >
> > So what you're saying is that the Koran has the same stupid myths as the
> > Bible. So fucking what?
> >
> >
> >> Common Muslims cannot read this, since the Koran is written in ancient
> >> Arabic.
> >>
> >> Arabic has a difficult system of writing, since the vowels are not
> >> written. This allows to interpret the words in up to 30 different
> >> meanings. And that could allow different translations.
> >>
> >> Since German 19th century historians have no obvious bias towards any
> >> interpretation, they are kind of 'objective' source for a valid
> >> translation, while especially the Egyptians have a bias.
> >>
> >> So my - naive - question was, if Jews and Muslims have something in common.
> >>
> >> Actually there are a few things, that both religions share.
> >>
> >> For instance they share the bizarre habit called 'circumcision'.
> >
> > So what?
> >
> >
> >> Also the set of holy scripts is somehow similar.
> >
> > So what?
> 
> Well, history is a science and somehow similar to crime scene 
> investigation.
> 
> If there are no written records, you need to make (educated) guesses and 
> try to figure out, what was going on, by analysing minuscule hints.
> 
> The Islam and the Jews have both a set of scripts, they regard as holy. 
> The overall structure of this set is quite similar, only the names and 
> the content is different.
> 
> >
> >> They both forbid the consume of pig and both have the obscure punishment
> >> called 'stoning'.
> >
> > How is stoning "obsure"?
> >
> 
> 'Stoning' as an extremely brutal way of execution. It has also the 
> disadvantage to include bystanders in the process of a killing, what 
> makes the members of such a crowd literally murderers.
> 
> 
> 
> >> Another stream of observations was related to the question, to where the
> >> 'Children of Israel' went after the passage through the Red Sea.
> >
> > You mean the fictional journey that took 40 years in an area about the
> > same size as small state West Virginia? And that left not one shred of
> > evidence of millions of alleged Jews living for 40 years.
> 
> I mean the question, who these people are, which the Koran calls 
> 'Children of Israel'.
> 
> >
> >> Actually Palestine was not an obvious target, since not located on the
> >> other side of the Red Sea.
> >>
> >> But how about Saudi Arabia?
> >
> > What the fuck are you talking about?
> >
> 
> "The Real Mount Sinai Found! "


No, it hasn't.

-- 

JD

Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream 
up a God superior to themselves. Most 
Gods have the manners and morals of a 
spoiled child.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2169770

FromDon Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net>
Date2016-09-17 10:21 -0400
Message-ID<2iiqtbhn0raubtknpkmd8e3uh51elq527j@4ax.com>
In reply to#2169613
On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 08:16:16 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
wrote:

>>> They both forbid the consume of pig and both have the obscure punishment
>>> called 'stoning'.
>>
>> How is stoning "obsure"?
>>
>
>'Stoning' as an extremely brutal way of execution. It has also the 
>disadvantage to include bystanders in the process of a killing, what 
>makes the members of such a crowd literally murderers.

Why do you call it a disadvantage?  I have known an Air Force guy who
witnessed a stoning in Saudi Arabia; he reports that the participants,
the entire population of the village where the adultery took place,
were enthusiastic.  According to their beliefs, they were performing a
valuable community service.  I am sure you would not wish to hamper
their religious expression.

-- 
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
         Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean) 
          Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2169805

FromSmiler <smiler@jo.king>
Date2016-09-17 16:28 +0000
Message-ID<nrjqun$1ddh$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#2169613
On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 08:16:16 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote:

> Am 16.09.2016 07:57, schrieb Jeanne Douglas:

<snip>

>> What the fuck are you talking about?
>>
> "The Real Mount Sinai Found! "
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c
> 
> "Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai "
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE

Merely unevidenced opinion.
Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.
And, if true, it makes the bible wrong.

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2169815

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-09-17 18:52 +0200
Message-ID<e45alqFmn1U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2169805
Am 17.09.2016 18:28, schrieb Smiler:

>> "The Real Mount Sinai Found!"
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c
>>
>> "Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai"
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE
>
> Merely unevidenced opinion.
> Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.
> And, if true, it makes the bible wrong.
>

Religious scripts cannot be wrong, since they do not pretend to be true.

So the bible is not a book about real history, even if it refers to 
historic events.

E.g. Eva was not made from the rib of her husband Adam.

The story has to be understood in a more symbolic way.


Such YouTube videos of amateurs  about own findings, on the other hand, 
attempt to be true, but are often not.

So if someone finds something interesting somewhere remote, than the 
best strategy would be, to research this place independently and with 
more professional means.

But I would doubt, that the Saudis have great interest in research of 
early Jewish remains in their country.

Most likely they would try to divert attention from such places and 
would not allow access to them.


TH


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2169848

FromDon Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net>
Date2016-09-17 13:57 -0400
Message-ID<mm0rtb1a25i4472gl2r1pqdns2jum68dnk@4ax.com>
In reply to#2169815
On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 18:52:07 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
wrote:

>Am 17.09.2016 18:28, schrieb Smiler:
>
>>> "The Real Mount Sinai Found!"
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c
>>>
>>> "Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai"
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE
>>
>> Merely unevidenced opinion.
>> Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.
>> And, if true, it makes the bible wrong.
>>
>
>Religious scripts cannot be wrong, since they do not pretend to be true.

You appear to have a very different group of religionists im
Deutschland than we have in the US.  Ours are constantly thundering
the Bible is the inerrant Word of Gawd.  You don't get much truthier
than the inerrant Word of Gawd.

-- 
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
         Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean) 
          Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.

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#2169994

From"Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2016-09-18 09:57 +1000
Message-ID<e463k5F6edaU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2169815
On 18/09/2016 02:52, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 17.09.2016 18:28, schrieb Smiler:
>
>>> "The Real Mount Sinai Found!"
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c
>>>
>>> "Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai"
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE
>>
>> Merely unevidenced opinion.
>> Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.
>> And, if true, it makes the bible wrong.
>>
>
> Religious scripts cannot be wrong, since they do not pretend to be true.
>
> So the bible is not a book about real history, even if it refers to
> historic events.
>
> E.g. Eva was not made from the rib of her husband Adam.
>
> The story has to be understood in a more symbolic way.

So they shift from preaching a factual truth to a metaphorical truth.

Either way, they still insist that they hold the truth.

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#2170012

FromSmiler <smiler@jo.king>
Date2016-09-18 00:20 +0000
Message-ID<nrkmk6$p8l$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#2169815
On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 18:52:07 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote:

> Am 17.09.2016 18:28, schrieb Smiler:
> 
>>> "The Real Mount Sinai Found!"
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c
>>>
>>> "Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai"
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE
>>
>> Merely unevidenced opinion.
>> Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.
>> And, if true, it makes the bible wrong.
>>
>>
> Religious scripts cannot be wrong, since they do not pretend to be true.

That's not what most other believers claim, but thanks for confirming that 
the bible is false.
 
> So the bible is not a book about real history, even if it refers to
> historic events.
> 
> E.g. Eva was not made from the rib of her husband Adam.

Then either the bible isn't the word of your supposed god or your supposed 
god is a liar. Which is it?
 
> The story has to be understood in a more symbolic way.

You mean 'reading between the lines to see what isn't there.'

> Such YouTube videos of amateurs  about own findings, on the other hand,
> attempt to be true, but are often not.

Why does your supposed god always chose idiots and liars to be its 
spokespeople?
 
> So if someone finds something interesting somewhere remote, than the
> best strategy would be, to research this place independently and with
> more professional means.
> 
> But I would doubt, that the Saudis have great interest in research of
> early Jewish remains in their country.
> 
> Most likely they would try to divert attention from such places and
> would not allow access to them.
> 
> TH

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

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#2170104

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-09-18 06:20 +0200
Message-ID<e46ivpFa0kjU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2170012
Am 18.09.2016 02:20, schrieb Smiler:

>>>> "The Real Mount Sinai Found!"
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c
>>>>
>>>> "Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai"
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE
>>>
>>> Merely unevidenced opinion.
>>> Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.
>>> And, if true, it makes the bible wrong.
>>>
>>>
>> Religious scripts cannot be wrong, since they do not pretend to be true.
>
> That's not what most other believers claim, but thanks for confirming that
> the bible is false.


The bible is made from two books (old and new testament), from which the 
older one is the same as the Thora of the Jews.

But the Newer book was also written and someone has done it.

Christians do not pretend, their book was handed down by God in one 
piece and that it dropped from heaven, but the book was written by people.

What they have written is believed to be true.

Only 'truth' must be interpreted in the meaning, that the authors have 
intended and not as being a literal description of historic events.

The bible use metaphors and symbolic pictures, to transport, what the 
authors regard as valid truth.

So you cannot take the picture itself and compare it with real events. 
You must first identify the ideas behind the metaphors and try to 
understand their meaning, before you can estimate, how valid this 
descriptions are.

>> So the bible is not a book about real history, even if it refers to
>> historic events.
>>
>> E.g. Eva was not made from the rib of her husband Adam.
>
> Then either the bible isn't the word of your supposed god or your supposed
> god is a liar. Which is it?

Christianity is a religion and belongs to the set of monotheistic 
believes (like Judaism and Islam).

Their understanding of the term 'God' is slightly different.

But if you want to have a coherent picture and I can give you this:

think about an  old and lonely gardener, who takes care of his 
plantation. It is really huge and he would take care as much as he can. 
This is why this garden as grown so much.

The garden is called 'universe' and among his creations is you and me.

>> The story has to be understood in a more symbolic way.
>
> You mean 'reading between the lines to see what isn't there.'


Symbols are pictures, which have some kind of meaning.

So philosophical concepts - for instance - could be encoded in symbols.

Modern science use a different method and carefully describe, what they 
try to express.

But in ancient time, they had a different system and they used pictures, 
which people could eventually understand.

>> Such YouTube videos of amateurs  about own findings, on the other hand,
>> attempt to be true, but are often not.
>
> Why does your supposed god always chose idiots and liars to be its
> spokespeople?

Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not 
include direct contact or interference.


TH

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#2170137

FromJeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com>
Date2016-09-17 23:36 -0700
Message-ID<hlwdjsd2-549EAA.23361217092016@news.giganews.com>
In reply to#2170104
In article <e46ivpFa0kjU1@mid.individual.net>,
 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:

> Am 18.09.2016 02:20, schrieb Smiler:
> 
> >>>> "The Real Mount Sinai Found!"
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c
> >>>>
> >>>> "Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai"
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE
> >>>
> >>> Merely unevidenced opinion.
> >>> Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.
> >>> And, if true, it makes the bible wrong.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Religious scripts cannot be wrong, since they do not pretend to be true.
> >
> > That's not what most other believers claim, but thanks for confirming that
> > the bible is false.
> 
> 
> The bible is made from two books (old and new testament), from which the 
> older one is the same as the Thora of the Jews.
> 
> But the Newer book was also written and someone has done it.
> 
> Christians do not pretend, their book was handed down by God in one 
> piece and that it dropped from heaven, but the book was written by people.
> 
> What they have written is believed to be true.

Only by those who already believe.


> Only 'truth' must be interpreted in the meaning, that the authors have 
> intended and not as being a literal description of historic events.
> 
> The bible use metaphors and symbolic pictures, to transport, what the 
> authors regard as valid truth.
> 
> So you cannot take the picture itself and compare it with real events. 
> You must first identify the ideas behind the metaphors and try to 
> understand their meaning, before you can estimate, how valid this 
> descriptions are.

In other words, every person makes their own personal religion out of 
the bible.


> >> So the bible is not a book about real history, even if it refers to
> >> historic events.
> >>
> >> E.g. Eva was not made from the rib of her husband Adam.
> >
> > Then either the bible isn't the word of your supposed god or your supposed
> > god is a liar. Which is it?
> 
> Christianity is a religion and belongs to the set of monotheistic 
> believes (like Judaism and Islam).
> 
> Their understanding of the term 'God' is slightly different.
> 
> But if you want to have a coherent picture and I can give you this:
> 
> think about an  old and lonely gardener, who takes care of his 
> plantation. It is really huge and he would take care as much as he can. 
> This is why this garden as grown so much.
> 
> The garden is called 'universe' and among his creations is you and me.

That would only be a valid analogy is this lonely old gardener 
habitually murders healthy plants for no particular reason beyond a 
temper tantrum.


> >> The story has to be understood in a more symbolic way.
> >
> > You mean 'reading between the lines to see what isn't there.'
> 
> 
> Symbols are pictures, which have some kind of meaning.
> 
> So philosophical concepts - for instance - could be encoded in symbols.
> 
> Modern science use a different method and carefully describe, what they 
> try to express.
> 
> But in ancient time, they had a different system and they used pictures, 
> which people could eventually understand.
> 
> >> Such YouTube videos of amateurs  about own findings, on the other hand,
> >> attempt to be true, but are often not.
> >
> > Why does your supposed god always chose idiots and liars to be its
> > spokespeople?
> 
> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not 
> include direct contact or interference.

Prophets are either frauds or insane.

-- 

JD

Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream 
up a God superior to themselves. Most 
Gods have the manners and morals of a 
spoiled child.

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#2170288

FromSmiler <smiler@jo.king>
Date2016-09-18 15:26 +0000
Message-ID<nrmbnh$11t1$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#2170104
On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 06:20:05 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote:

> Am 18.09.2016 02:20, schrieb Smiler:
> 
>>>>> "The Real Mount Sinai Found!"
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c
>>>>>
>>>>> "Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai"
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE
>>>>
>>>> Merely unevidenced opinion.
>>>> Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.
>>>> And, if true, it makes the bible wrong.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Religious scripts cannot be wrong, since they do not pretend to be
>>> true.
>>
>> That's not what most other believers claim, but thanks for confirming
>> that the bible is false.
> 
> The bible is made from two books (old and new testament), from which the
> older one is the same as the Thora of the Jews.

And the newer one is made up (appropriately) from several other books.
 
> But the Newer book was also written and someone has done it.
> 
> Christians do not pretend, their book was handed down by God in one
> piece and that it dropped from heaven, but the book was written by
> people.

You don't know many Christians, then.
 
> What they have written is believed to be true.

Only by believers.

> Only 'truth' must be interpreted in the meaning, that the authors have
> intended and not as being a literal description of historic events.

So the 'historic events' in the bible never happened. Again, the bible 
lies.
 
> The bible use metaphors and symbolic pictures, to transport, what the
> authors regard as valid truth.

What they regarded as truth isn't necessarily true.
 
> So you cannot take the picture itself and compare it with real events.

Therefore, the picture is worthless.

> You must first identify the ideas behind the metaphors and try to
> understand their meaning, before you can estimate, how valid this
> descriptions are.

AKA "reading between the lines to see what isn't there."
 
>>> So the bible is not a book about real history, even if it refers to
>>> historic events.
>>>
>>> E.g. Eva was not made from the rib of her husband Adam.
>>
>> Then either the bible isn't the word of your supposed god or your
>> supposed god is a liar. Which is it?
> 
> Christianity is a religion and belongs to the set of monotheistic
> believes (like Judaism and Islam).
> 
> Their understanding of the term 'God' is slightly different.
> 
> But if you want to have a coherent picture and I can give you this:
> 
> think about an  old and lonely gardener, who takes care of his
> plantation. It is really huge and he would take care as much as he can.
> This is why this garden as grown so much.
> 
> The garden is called 'universe' and among his creations is you and me.

Who created the gardener?
 
>>> The story has to be understood in a more symbolic way.
>>
>> You mean 'reading between the lines to see what isn't there.'
> 
> Symbols are pictures, which have some kind of meaning.

Only to the believers. 
 
> So philosophical concepts - for instance - could be encoded in symbols.
> 
> Modern science use a different method and carefully describe, what they
> try to express.
> 
> But in ancient time, they had a different system and they used pictures,
> which people could eventually understand.

Yet every person has a different understanding of those pictures. 
Not a clear way to communicate such supposedly important information.
 
>>> Such YouTube videos of amateurs  about own findings, on the other
>>> hand, attempt to be true, but are often not.
>>
>> Why does your supposed god always chose idiots and liars to be its
>> spokespeople?
> 
> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not
> include direct contact or interference.

I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible.
I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24 
hours.

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2170355

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-09-18 20:06 +0200
Message-ID<e483e6FlbgoU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2170288
Am 18.09.2016 17:26, schrieb Smiler:

>>>> So the bible is not a book about real history, even if it refers to
>>>> historic events.
>>>>
>>>> E.g. Eva was not made from the rib of her husband Adam.
>>>
>>> Then either the bible isn't the word of your supposed god or your
>>> supposed god is a liar. Which is it?
>>
>> Christianity is a religion and belongs to the set of monotheistic
>> believes (like Judaism and Islam).
>>
>> Their understanding of the term 'God' is slightly different.
>>
>> But if you want to have a coherent picture and I can give you this:
>>
>> think about an  old and lonely gardener, who takes care of his
>> plantation. It is really huge and he would take care as much as he can.
>> This is why this garden as grown so much.
>>
>> The garden is called 'universe' and among his creations is you and me.
>
> Who created the gardener?

I don't know  ;-)

>>>> The story has to be understood in a more symbolic way.
>>>
>>> You mean 'reading between the lines to see what isn't there.'
>>
>> Symbols are pictures, which have some kind of meaning.
>
> Only to the believers.

The author wants to transport a message to the reader. So he thinks 
about words, which would convince the reader of some idea or concept he 
had in mind.

If you read it and do not believe the concept (or don't see in in the 
first place), the author has not reached what he wanted to achieve.

But eventually he will find someone else, who actually like his scripts.

>> So philosophical concepts - for instance - could be encoded in symbols.
>>
>> Modern science use a different method and carefully describe, what they
>> try to express.
>>
>> But in ancient time, they had a different system and they used pictures,
>> which people could eventually understand.
>
> Yet every person has a different understanding of those pictures.
> Not a clear way to communicate such supposedly important information.


Usually they have kind of 'schools', where the adepts learn to interpret 
scripts in the intended ways.

You start with simple ones and once you manage to properly identify the 
intended meaning, you proceed to the next level (and so forth).

If you are then able enough, you had the allowance to read the precious 
scripts themselves.

Now there exist other means than creating pergament from calf-skin and 
to scribble ancient text on it with ink.

Now people want to read something on their iPhone and understand it 
immediately, possibly with the help of Google.translator.

Often this does not work, since it requires training to understand 
something difficult.

>>>> Such YouTube videos of amateurs  about own findings, on the other
>>>> hand, attempt to be true, but are often not.
>>>
>>> Why does your supposed god always chose idiots and liars to be its
>>> spokespeople?
>>
>> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not
>> include direct contact or interference.
>
> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible.
> I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
> hours.

Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its usefulness.

If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will 
certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather forecast.

TH

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#2170823

FromSmiler <smiler@jo.king>
Date2016-09-19 20:19 +0000
Message-ID<nrph7s$h5o$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#2170355
On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 20:06:57 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote:

> Am 18.09.2016 17:26, schrieb Smiler:
> 
>>>>> So the bible is not a book about real history, even if it refers to
>>>>> historic events.
>>>>>
>>>>> E.g. Eva was not made from the rib of her husband Adam.
>>>>
>>>> Then either the bible isn't the word of your supposed god or your
>>>> supposed god is a liar. Which is it?
>>>
>>> Christianity is a religion and belongs to the set of monotheistic
>>> believes (like Judaism and Islam).
>>>
>>> Their understanding of the term 'God' is slightly different.
>>>
>>> But if you want to have a coherent picture and I can give you this:
>>>
>>> think about an  old and lonely gardener, who takes care of his
>>> plantation. It is really huge and he would take care as much as he
>>> can. This is why this garden as grown so much.
>>>
>>> The garden is called 'universe' and among his creations is you and me.
>>
>> Who created the gardener?
> 
> I don't know  ;-)

Then why should we accept your claim of a clear and coherent picture?
 
>>>>> The story has to be understood in a more symbolic way.
>>>>
>>>> You mean 'reading between the lines to see what isn't there.'
>>>
>>> Symbols are pictures, which have some kind of meaning.
>>
>> Only to the believers.
> 
> The author wants to transport a message to the reader. So he thinks
> about words, which would convince the reader of some idea or concept he
> had in mind.
> 
> If you read it and do not believe the concept (or don't see in in the
> first place), the author has not reached what he wanted to achieve.
> 
> But eventually he will find someone else, who actually like his scripts.

You refer, of course, to the gullible.

>>> So philosophical concepts - for instance - could be encoded in
>>> symbols.
>>>
>>> Modern science use a different method and carefully describe, what
>>> they try to express.
>>>
>>> But in ancient time, they had a different system and they used
>>> pictures,
>>> which people could eventually understand.
>>
>> Yet every person has a different understanding of those pictures. Not a
>> clear way to communicate such supposedly important information.
> 
> Usually they have kind of 'schools', where the adepts learn to interpret
> scripts in the intended ways.

How do you know that the teachers have the correct interpretation?
 
> You start with simple ones and once you manage to properly identify the
> intended meaning, you proceed to the next level (and so forth).

It's called indoctrination.
 
> If you are then able enough, you had the allowance to read the precious
> scripts themselves.
> 
> Now there exist other means than creating pergament from calf-skin and
> to scribble ancient text on it with ink.
> 
> Now people want to read something on their iPhone and understand it
> immediately, possibly with the help of Google.translator.
> 
> Often this does not work, since it requires training to understand
> something difficult.

AKA indoctrination.
 
>>>>> Such YouTube videos of amateurs  about own findings, on the other
>>>>> hand, attempt to be true, but are often not.
>>>>
>>>> Why does your supposed god always chose idiots and liars to be its
>>>> spokespeople?
>>>
>>> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not
>>> include direct contact or interference.
>>
>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible. I
>> prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>> hours.
> 
> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its usefulness.

Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be useless.

> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather forecast.

Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery numbers?

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2170845

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-09-19 23:22 +0200
Message-ID<e4b38qFd3p5U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2170823
Am 19.09.2016 22:19, schrieb Smiler:

>>>> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not
>>>> include direct contact or interference.
>>>
>>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible. I
>>> prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>> hours.
>>
>> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its usefulness.
>
> Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be useless.
>
>> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
>> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather forecast.
>
> Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery numbers?


The bible does not make predictions, you did.

You wrote:
[Quote]
"..I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
  hours."

[\Quote]

You seem to confuse 'prophet' with 'fortune teller'.

A typical prophet would be Mohammed or Buddha.  And what they did not 
do, was predicting the weather.

TH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2170903

FromSmiler <smiler@jo.king>
Date2016-09-19 23:56 +0000
Message-ID<nrptul$120r$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#2170845
On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 23:22:28 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote:

> Am 19.09.2016 22:19, schrieb Smiler:
> 
>>>>> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not
>>>>> include direct contact or interference.
>>>>
>>>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible.
>>>> I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>>> hours.
>>>
>>> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its usefulness.
>>
>> Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be
>> useless.
>>
>>> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
>>> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather forecast.
>>
>> Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery
>> numbers?
>
> The bible does not make predictions, you did.

So "The meek shall inherit the Earth" isn't a prediction in your world?

> You wrote:
> [Quote]
> "..I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>   hours."
> [\Quote]

Yep. No guesswork needed. It will again rain within the next 24 hours.
In fact, it will rain every day, for the remainder of this year.
Prove me wrong.
 
> You seem to confuse 'prophet' with 'fortune teller'.

Specify the difference.

> A typical prophet would be Mohammed or Buddha.  And what they did not
> do, was predicting the weather.

But they probably predicted many other things.

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2170907

FromTed&Alice <sam.m.tedesco@gmail.com>
Date2016-09-20 00:18 +0000
Message-ID<736640376496023162.960518sam.m.tedesco-gmail.com@news.easynews.com>
In reply to#2170903
Smiler <smiler@jo.king> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 23:22:28 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote:
> 
>> Am 19.09.2016 22:19, schrieb Smiler:
>> 
>>>>>> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not
>>>>>> include direct contact or interference.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the bible.
>>>>> I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>>>> hours.
>>>> 
>>>> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its usefulness.
>>> 
>>> Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be
>>> useless.
>>> 
>>>> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
>>>> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather forecast.
>>> 
>>> Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery
>>> numbers?
>> 
>> The bible does not make predictions, you did.
> 
> So "The meek shall inherit the Earth" isn't a prediction in your world?
> 
>> You wrote:
>> [Quote]
>> "..I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next 24
>>   hours."
>> [\Quote]
> 
> Yep. No guesswork needed. It will again rain within the next 24 hours.
> In fact, it will rain every day, for the remainder of this year.
> Prove me wrong.
>  
>> You seem to confuse 'prophet' with 'fortune teller'.
> 
> Specify the difference.
> 
>> A typical prophet would be Mohammed or Buddha.  And what they did not
>> do, was predicting the weather.
> 
> But they probably predicted many other things.

From what I read, Buddha wasn't even into that kinda shit.

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#2171140

FromSmiler <smiler@jo.king>
Date2016-09-20 12:32 +0000
Message-ID<nrra8q$sil$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#2170907
On Tue, 20 Sep 2016 00:18:32 +0000, Ted&Alice wrote:

> Smiler <smiler@jo.king> wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 23:22:28 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> 
>>> Am 19.09.2016 22:19, schrieb Smiler:
>>> 
>>>>>>> Prophets are rare exceptions from a rule, that generally would not
>>>>>>> include direct contact or interference.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can make biblical type prophesies as accurate as any in the
>>>>>> bible. I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within
>>>>>> the next 24 hours.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well, yes. But the value of a prophecy increases with its
>>>>> usefulness.
>>>> 
>>>> Do tell of a useful biblical prophesy, one not so vague as to be
>>>> useless.
>>>> 
>>>>> If you are able to correctly predict the lottery numbers, you will
>>>>> certainly get more for your prophecies than for your weather
>>>>> forecast.
>>>> 
>>>> Where did the bible make a prediction as specific as the lottery
>>>> numbers?
>>> 
>>> The bible does not make predictions, you did.
>> 
>> So "The meek shall inherit the Earth" isn't a prediction in your world?
>> 
>>> You wrote:
>>> [Quote]
>>> "..I prophesy, with 100% certainty, that it will rain within the next
>>> 24
>>>   hours."
>>> [\Quote]
>> 
>> Yep. No guesswork needed. It will again rain within the next 24 hours.
>> In fact, it will rain every day, for the remainder of this year.
>> Prove me wrong.
>>  
>>> You seem to confuse 'prophet' with 'fortune teller'.
>> 
>> Specify the difference.
>> 
>>> A typical prophet would be Mohammed or Buddha.  And what they did not
>>> do, was predicting the weather.
>> 
>> But they probably predicted many other things.
> 
> From what I read, Buddha wasn't even into that kinda shit.

I'm not that well informed about Buddha, but understand that he was more 
of a teacher than a prophet.

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

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