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Groups > alt.atheism > #2167371 > unrolled thread
| Started by | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-09-11 12:43 -0700 |
| Last post | 2016-09-15 23:22 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 180 — 35 participants |
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Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-11 12:43 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Davej <galt_57@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-11 13:06 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft WeHang FagZ And Jews Too <macabbeus@gmail.com> - 2016-09-11 13:27 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-11 23:44 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> - 2016-09-11 16:43 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-11 23:20 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-12 00:38 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-11 14:13 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Normal Human <NH@....> - 2016-09-12 08:01 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-11 15:24 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-11 16:28 -0600
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-12 00:06 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-12 07:31 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-12 12:57 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-12 08:57 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-12 14:26 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-12 19:18 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-12 12:37 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-12 22:43 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-12 19:14 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-12 22:18 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 06:45 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-12 23:56 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 08:16 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-13 00:07 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 22:00 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-13 20:53 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-14 20:15 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-15 01:34 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-15 08:23 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-15 03:33 -0400
Re: Theism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-15 11:29 -0600
Re: Theism is Witchcraft John Locke <johnnydemon666@demonmail.com> - 2016-09-15 11:14 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-15 20:44 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-16 06:34 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-15 20:02 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-15 19:05 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-16 10:25 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-15 22:11 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 19:25 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-16 06:20 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 22:57 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 08:16 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-17 07:01 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-17 11:54 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-18 09:55 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 04:18 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 04:18 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 04:19 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2016-09-17 10:21 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-17 16:28 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 18:52 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2016-09-17 13:57 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-18 09:57 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Kurt <passerby31416@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 20:19 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-12 15:31 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-12 19:13 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 07:01 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-12 22:29 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 08:21 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-13 00:05 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-13 07:49 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 18:03 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-13 21:00 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-14 06:27 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-14 02:45 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-14 11:14 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-14 06:44 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-14 12:31 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-14 07:57 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-14 15:02 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 03:02 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-15 15:38 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 03:00 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-15 15:29 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 02:55 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-15 14:57 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> - 2016-09-15 19:37 +0100
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-14 01:34 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-14 11:16 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-14 19:45 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-14 14:43 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-16 07:01 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 22:58 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "%" <persent@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 23:13 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-16 03:49 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-16 08:00 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Hot-Text" <hot-text@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-16 18:57 -0500
Re: Theism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-16 22:06 -0600
"Wisely Non-Theist" "Billy_Ray_Ferrell_USA-VP_2016" <billyrferrell@minpin.mshome.net> - 2016-09-17 00:32 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2016-09-12 17:55 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> - 2016-09-11 19:08 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hypatiab7 <hypatiab7@comcast.net> - 2016-09-11 15:40 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hypatiab7 <hypatiab7@comcast.net> - 2016-09-11 15:26 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft default <default@defaulter.net> - 2016-09-12 07:19 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 00:27 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 00:34 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 09:07 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 09:21 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 09:42 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-14 10:21 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-14 14:37 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-14 12:06 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hypatiab7 <hypatiab7@comcast.net> - 2016-09-16 22:42 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Locke <johnnydemon666@demonmail.com> - 2016-09-13 10:15 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 11:45 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hypatiab7 <hypatiab7@comcast.net> - 2016-09-16 22:57 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-14 09:10 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-13 17:21 -0600
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-13 19:59 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-14 03:15 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-13 20:33 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-13 22:09 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-13 20:55 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-14 20:47 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> - 2016-09-14 00:26 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-14 01:16 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-13 22:01 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-13 21:12 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-15 09:32 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-14 17:38 -0600
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 23:32 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-14 23:15 -0600
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-15 03:33 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 23:36 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-15 08:52 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-15 18:01 +1000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 02:50 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-15 22:48 +0200
Re: Theism is Witchcraft Virgil <VIRGIL@VIRGIL.com> - 2016-09-15 15:02 -0600
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 19:23 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2016-09-16 02:58 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-16 08:16 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-16 01:15 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2016-09-16 12:50 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-17 01:38 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2016-09-17 10:21 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-17 16:42 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-15 23:41 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-15 22:52 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-15 17:45 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-15 17:15 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-15 21:57 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-16 04:23 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-16 17:06 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-16 16:11 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-16 21:51 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-16 21:00 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-17 01:56 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 08:30 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-17 07:10 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 04:14 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 16:25 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 16:44 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-17 12:27 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-17 17:26 +0000
Re: Theism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-17 11:48 -0600
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-17 12:54 -0500
Re: Theism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-17 12:47 -0600
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 20:50 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-17 17:31 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-17 12:00 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-17 17:25 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-16 20:44 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-16 17:49 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-16 21:51 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-16 02:49 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-16 03:47 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-16 05:57 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-16 17:12 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-16 16:22 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 19:00 +0200
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> - 2016-09-14 00:25 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 00:28 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-14 20:08 +0000
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-14 15:13 -0500
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-14 18:10 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-14 03:58 -0400
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft tirebiter <dontspamme666@bigfoot.com> - 2016-09-14 18:51 -0700
Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-15 23:22 -0700
Page 3 of 9 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next page →
| From | Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-16 06:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <e41a9jF1uggU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2169001 |
Am 16.09.2016 04:25, schrieb Jeanne Douglas: >>>> >>>> This would be in many cases in conflict with propaganda of the powers in >>>> control, since those powers usually want to decide, what is correct and >>>> what is not. >>> >>> That is called political pressure. >>> >>>> >>>> So science and power are acting on the same subject, but in opposite >>>> directions. >>> >>> Not power - politics. >> >> >> Wealth, position, personal relations, strength, knowledge, fame and a >> few other features could make a person influential. >> >> The set of influential people are now named 'power'. >> >> Politicians often have power, but not necessarily they alone. >> >> E.g. the Pope is not a politician, but is certainly influential. > > Of course he's a politician. He's the head of state of a nation. Yes, in a way he's also head of a state. But that is a rather small country, since you can walk around it in five minutes. His main purpose is being the head of the Catholic Church. And this church is not a state and the believers in this particular faith do not build a nation. Since a few centuries the political power of the Vatican is reduced to spiritual advise. So I would not call the Pope a political leader. > >>>> But history is science and science tries to find true stories, whether >>>> or not the politicians like them. Power, money, influence and ideology >>>> are not scientific categories, hence usefulness of a certain finding is >>>> not the aim of science, but truth. >>>> >>>> If we apply scientific methods to the history of monotheistic religions, >>>> we would research similarities and historic developments over many >>>> millennia and over different regions, countries, cultures and languages. >>> >>> No such study could be made because it would be a study of belief, not >>> fact. >> >> >> The subject in question was a hypothesis of the German Islam scientist >> Karl-Heinz Ohlig. >> >> He had researched history of the early Islam. >> >> He found out something interesting: that the Islam was derived from a >> certain form of early Christianity, which was common the region, which >> today is Syria. >> >> This was kind of sect, which is called now 'Arians' or 'Nestorians'. >> >> Their holy scripts were later the foundation for the Koran. > > Do you have any other source confirming this hypothesis? > Actually I had similar ideas earlier after reading a German version of the Koran in a 19th century translation. I found it interesting, that the Koran apparently speaks to people which are called 'Children of Israel', which Allah helped to flee from the Pharao by splitting apart the Red Sea. Common Muslims cannot read this, since the Koran is written in ancient Arabic. Arabic has a difficult system of writing, since the vowels are not written. This allows to interpret the words in up to 30 different meanings. And that could allow different translations. Since German 19th century historians have no obvious bias towards any interpretation, they are kind of 'objective' source for a valid translation, while especially the Egyptians have a bias. So my - naive - question was, if Jews and Muslims have something in common. Actually there are a few things, that both religions share. For instance they share the bizarre habit called 'circumcision'. Also the set of holy scripts is somehow similar. They both forbid the consume of pig and both have the obscure punishment called 'stoning'. Another stream of observations was related to the question, to where the 'Children of Israel' went after the passage through the Red Sea. Actually Palestine was not an obvious target, since not located on the other side of the Red Sea. But how about Saudi Arabia? TH
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| From | Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-15 22:57 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <hlwdjsd2-C1A7D0.22575415092016@news.giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #2169024 |
In article <e41a9jF1uggU1@mid.individual.net>, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote: > Am 16.09.2016 04:25, schrieb Jeanne Douglas: > > >>>> > >>>> This would be in many cases in conflict with propaganda of the powers in > >>>> control, since those powers usually want to decide, what is correct and > >>>> what is not. > >>> > >>> That is called political pressure. > >>> > >>>> > >>>> So science and power are acting on the same subject, but in opposite > >>>> directions. > >>> > >>> Not power - politics. > >> > >> > >> Wealth, position, personal relations, strength, knowledge, fame and a > >> few other features could make a person influential. > >> > >> The set of influential people are now named 'power'. > >> > >> Politicians often have power, but not necessarily they alone. > >> > >> E.g. the Pope is not a politician, but is certainly influential. > > > > Of course he's a politician. He's the head of state of a nation. > > > Yes, in a way he's also head of a state. > > But that is a rather small country, since you can walk around it in five > minutes. > > His main purpose is being the head of the Catholic Church. > > And this church is not a state and the believers in this particular > faith do not build a nation. > > Since a few centuries the political power of the Vatican is reduced to > spiritual advise. > > So I would not call the Pope a political leader. If you choose to be wrong, I can't stop you. > >>>> But history is science and science tries to find true stories, whether > >>>> or not the politicians like them. Power, money, influence and ideology > >>>> are not scientific categories, hence usefulness of a certain finding is > >>>> not the aim of science, but truth. > >>>> > >>>> If we apply scientific methods to the history of monotheistic religions, > >>>> we would research similarities and historic developments over many > >>>> millennia and over different regions, countries, cultures and languages. > >>> > >>> No such study could be made because it would be a study of belief, not > >>> fact. > >> > >> > >> The subject in question was a hypothesis of the German Islam scientist > >> Karl-Heinz Ohlig. > >> > >> He had researched history of the early Islam. > >> > >> He found out something interesting: that the Islam was derived from a > >> certain form of early Christianity, which was common the region, which > >> today is Syria. > >> > >> This was kind of sect, which is called now 'Arians' or 'Nestorians'. > >> > >> Their holy scripts were later the foundation for the Koran. > > > > Do you have any other source confirming this hypothesis? > > > > > Actually I had similar ideas earlier after reading a German version of > the Koran in a 19th century translation. > > I found it interesting, that the Koran apparently speaks to people which > are called 'Children of Israel', which Allah helped to flee from the > Pharao by splitting apart the Red Sea. So what you're saying is that the Koran has the same stupid myths as the Bible. So fucking what? > Common Muslims cannot read this, since the Koran is written in ancient > Arabic. > > Arabic has a difficult system of writing, since the vowels are not > written. This allows to interpret the words in up to 30 different > meanings. And that could allow different translations. > > Since German 19th century historians have no obvious bias towards any > interpretation, they are kind of 'objective' source for a valid > translation, while especially the Egyptians have a bias. > > So my - naive - question was, if Jews and Muslims have something in common. > > Actually there are a few things, that both religions share. > > For instance they share the bizarre habit called 'circumcision'. So what? > Also the set of holy scripts is somehow similar. So what? > They both forbid the consume of pig and both have the obscure punishment > called 'stoning'. How is stoning "obsure"? > Another stream of observations was related to the question, to where the > 'Children of Israel' went after the passage through the Red Sea. You mean the fictional journey that took 40 years in an area about the same size as small state West Virginia? And that left not one shred of evidence of millions of alleged Jews living for 40 years. > Actually Palestine was not an obvious target, since not located on the > other side of the Red Sea. > > But how about Saudi Arabia? What the fuck are you talking about? -- JD Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.
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| From | Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-17 08:16 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <e445djFmdedU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2169046 |
Am 16.09.2016 07:57, schrieb Jeanne Douglas: >> Actually I had similar ideas earlier after reading a German version of >> the Koran in a 19th century translation. >> >> I found it interesting, that the Koran apparently speaks to people which >> are called 'Children of Israel', which Allah helped to flee from the >> Pharao by splitting apart the Red Sea. > > So what you're saying is that the Koran has the same stupid myths as the > Bible. So fucking what? > > >> Common Muslims cannot read this, since the Koran is written in ancient >> Arabic. >> >> Arabic has a difficult system of writing, since the vowels are not >> written. This allows to interpret the words in up to 30 different >> meanings. And that could allow different translations. >> >> Since German 19th century historians have no obvious bias towards any >> interpretation, they are kind of 'objective' source for a valid >> translation, while especially the Egyptians have a bias. >> >> So my - naive - question was, if Jews and Muslims have something in common. >> >> Actually there are a few things, that both religions share. >> >> For instance they share the bizarre habit called 'circumcision'. > > So what? > > >> Also the set of holy scripts is somehow similar. > > So what? Well, history is a science and somehow similar to crime scene investigation. If there are no written records, you need to make (educated) guesses and try to figure out, what was going on, by analysing minuscule hints. The Islam and the Jews have both a set of scripts, they regard as holy. The overall structure of this set is quite similar, only the names and the content is different. > >> They both forbid the consume of pig and both have the obscure punishment >> called 'stoning'. > > How is stoning "obsure"? > 'Stoning' as an extremely brutal way of execution. It has also the disadvantage to include bystanders in the process of a killing, what makes the members of such a crowd literally murderers. >> Another stream of observations was related to the question, to where the >> 'Children of Israel' went after the passage through the Red Sea. > > You mean the fictional journey that took 40 years in an area about the > same size as small state West Virginia? And that left not one shred of > evidence of millions of alleged Jews living for 40 years. I mean the question, who these people are, which the Koran calls 'Children of Israel'. > >> Actually Palestine was not an obvious target, since not located on the >> other side of the Red Sea. >> >> But how about Saudi Arabia? > > What the fuck are you talking about? > "The Real Mount Sinai Found! " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c "Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE And if you think about it, than Saudi Arabia was way more profitable than Palestine was. The Arabs also conquered the Persian empire and subsequently half of the world. So how about locating the 'promised land' in Arabia ? And how about assuming, that the Arabs have descended from the biblical Jews? 'Semite' would fit to Arabs, but actually not to 'Ashenazim'. Also the Arabic language and the way of writing is quite close to Hebrew. And, last but not least, there are similarities in the Koran and the bible, which would be a hint, that the Koran is actually based on older traditions. TH
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| From | Attila <<prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-17 07:01 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <s48qtb5q4tociqmagts191v4rrasac3pia@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2169613 |
On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 08:16:16 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> in alt.atheism with message-id <e445djFmdedU1@mid.individual.net> wrote: >Am 16.09.2016 07:57, schrieb Jeanne Douglas: > >>> Actually I had similar ideas earlier after reading a German version of >>> the Koran in a 19th century translation. >>> >>> I found it interesting, that the Koran apparently speaks to people which >>> are called 'Children of Israel', which Allah helped to flee from the >>> Pharao by splitting apart the Red Sea. >> >> So what you're saying is that the Koran has the same stupid myths as the >> Bible. So fucking what? >> >> >>> Common Muslims cannot read this, since the Koran is written in ancient >>> Arabic. >>> >>> Arabic has a difficult system of writing, since the vowels are not >>> written. This allows to interpret the words in up to 30 different >>> meanings. And that could allow different translations. >>> >>> Since German 19th century historians have no obvious bias towards any >>> interpretation, they are kind of 'objective' source for a valid >>> translation, while especially the Egyptians have a bias. >>> >>> So my - naive - question was, if Jews and Muslims have something in common. >>> >>> Actually there are a few things, that both religions share. >>> >>> For instance they share the bizarre habit called 'circumcision'. >> >> So what? >> >> >>> Also the set of holy scripts is somehow similar. >> >> So what? > >Well, history is a science and somehow similar to crime scene >investigation. History is not a science and CSI is a profession involving a number of different sciences among other things. > >If there are no written records, you need to make (educated) guesses and >try to figure out, what was going on, by analysing minuscule hints. But those deductions are never presented as being factual. > >The Islam and the Jews have both a set of scripts, they regard as holy. That is common to most religions. >The overall structure of this set is quite similar, only the names and >the content is different. Again, quite common to a lot of religions. > >> >>> They both forbid the consume of pig and both have the obscure punishment >>> called 'stoning'. Unless properly prepared pork can cause more disease than beef or mutton. Stoning is a common primitive punishment, being both cheap and easy. >> >> How is stoning "obsure"? >> > >'Stoning' as an extremely brutal way of execution. No more than many others that have been used. > It has also the >disadvantage to include bystanders in the process of a killing, what >makes the members of such a crowd literally murderers. If it is legal in the society that uses it how can it be murder? Murder requires an illegal component. > > > >>> Another stream of observations was related to the question, to where the >>> 'Children of Israel' went after the passage through the Red Sea. >> >> You mean the fictional journey that took 40 years in an area about the >> same size as small state West Virginia? And that left not one shred of >> evidence of millions of alleged Jews living for 40 years. > >I mean the question, who these people are, which the Koran calls >'Children of Israel'. Does it really matter what calls them what of there is no evidence they ever existed? > >> >>> Actually Palestine was not an obvious target, since not located on the >>> other side of the Red Sea. >>> >>> But how about Saudi Arabia? >> >> What the fuck are you talking about? >> > >"The Real Mount Sinai Found! " > >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c > >"Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai " > >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE > >And if you think about it, than Saudi Arabia was way more profitable >than Palestine was. > >The Arabs also conquered the Persian empire and subsequently half of the >world. > >So how about locating the 'promised land' in Arabia ? > >And how about assuming, that the Arabs have descended from the biblical >Jews? Based upon what evidence? > >'Semite' would fit to Arabs, but actually not to 'Ashenazim'. > >Also the Arabic language and the way of writing is quite close to Hebrew. In what way? > >And, last but not least, there are similarities in the Koran and the >bible, which would be a hint, that the Koran is actually based on older >traditions. > >TH Or they both stole from the same sources. -- Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor OBastard. Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government guaranteed above average income for every person. Every illegal alien is a criminal. No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason. Deportation upon identification as the only option. If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly before you run into me.
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| From | Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-17 11:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnntqboe.lqn.nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> |
| In reply to | #2169664 |
Attila wrote: > Thomas Heger wrote: ----snip---- > > If there are no written records, you need to make (educated) > > guesses and try to figure out, what was going on, by analysing > < minuscule hints. > > But those deductions are never presented as being factual. False. It is deduced from sites such as Athens and Mykenai that Proto-geometric Ware is from a later time tnan Late Helladic III C Ware, the basis of the deduction being that it is found in a higher layer than the LH III C War. That deduction is presented to students and the public alike as fact. It is further deduced that the Proto-geometric Ware found mingled with LH III c Ware at Pylos is "intrusions", the basis of the deduction being the "known fact" that Proto-geometric is later than LH III C. That deduction too is presented to students and the public alike as fact. ----snip---- Ned
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| From | "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-18 09:55 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <e463fjF6edaU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2169664 |
On 17/09/2016 21:01, Attila wrote: > On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 08:16:16 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> in > alt.atheism with message-id <e445djFmdedU1@mid.individual.net> wrote: > >> Am 16.09.2016 07:57, schrieb Jeanne Douglas: >> >>>> Actually I had similar ideas earlier after reading a German version of >>>> the Koran in a 19th century translation. >>>> >>>> I found it interesting, that the Koran apparently speaks to people which >>>> are called 'Children of Israel', which Allah helped to flee from the >>>> Pharao by splitting apart the Red Sea. >>> >>> So what you're saying is that the Koran has the same stupid myths as the >>> Bible. So fucking what? >>> >>> >>>> Common Muslims cannot read this, since the Koran is written in ancient >>>> Arabic. >>>> >>>> Arabic has a difficult system of writing, since the vowels are not >>>> written. This allows to interpret the words in up to 30 different >>>> meanings. And that could allow different translations. >>>> >>>> Since German 19th century historians have no obvious bias towards any >>>> interpretation, they are kind of 'objective' source for a valid >>>> translation, while especially the Egyptians have a bias. >>>> >>>> So my - naive - question was, if Jews and Muslims have something in common. >>>> >>>> Actually there are a few things, that both religions share. >>>> >>>> For instance they share the bizarre habit called 'circumcision'. >>> >>> So what? >>> >>> >>>> Also the set of holy scripts is somehow similar. >>> >>> So what? >> >> Well, history is a science and somehow similar to crime scene >> investigation. > > History is not a science and CSI is a profession involving a number of > different sciences among other things. History is very much a science. Just because it is not a material science does not mean it is not a science. Historians are utterly reliant on hard evidence. They use all manner of scientific techniques, from carbon dating to statistics. > >> >> If there are no written records, you need to make (educated) guesses and >> try to figure out, what was going on, by analysing minuscule hints. > > But those deductions are never presented as being factual. > >> >> The Islam and the Jews have both a set of scripts, they regard as holy. > > That is common to most religions. As is the fact that they disagree -- often violently -- on the exact composition and meaning of their sacred scripts. > >> The overall structure of this set is quite similar, only the names and >> the content is different. > > Again, quite common to a lot of religions. > >> >>> >>>> They both forbid the consume of pig and both have the obscure punishment >>>> called 'stoning'. > > Unless properly prepared pork can cause more disease than beef or > mutton. Stoning is a common primitive punishment, being both cheap > and easy. And communal. Executing a transgressor is one thing, but making the entire community participate takes it to a whole other level. Concerning pork, while there is a risk of disease, the same applies to all foodstuffs. Unlike other domesticated animals, though, pigs do have the serious advantage that they turn refuse into meat. > >>> >>> How is stoning "obsure"? >>> >> >> 'Stoning' as an extremely brutal way of execution. > > No more than many others that have been used. > >> It has also the >> disadvantage to include bystanders in the process of a killing, what >> makes the members of such a crowd literally murderers. > > If it is legal in the society that uses it how can it be murder? > Murder requires an illegal component. People so often fail to understand this...
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| From | Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-17 04:18 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <hlwdjsd2-186583.04181717092016@news.giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #2169613 |
In article <e445djFmdedU1@mid.individual.net>, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote: > Am 16.09.2016 07:57, schrieb Jeanne Douglas: > > >> Actually I had similar ideas earlier after reading a German version of > >> the Koran in a 19th century translation. > >> > >> I found it interesting, that the Koran apparently speaks to people which > >> are called 'Children of Israel', which Allah helped to flee from the > >> Pharao by splitting apart the Red Sea. > > > > So what you're saying is that the Koran has the same stupid myths as the > > Bible. So fucking what? > > > > > >> Common Muslims cannot read this, since the Koran is written in ancient > >> Arabic. > >> > >> Arabic has a difficult system of writing, since the vowels are not > >> written. This allows to interpret the words in up to 30 different > >> meanings. And that could allow different translations. > >> > >> Since German 19th century historians have no obvious bias towards any > >> interpretation, they are kind of 'objective' source for a valid > >> translation, while especially the Egyptians have a bias. > >> > >> So my - naive - question was, if Jews and Muslims have something in common. > >> > >> Actually there are a few things, that both religions share. > >> > >> For instance they share the bizarre habit called 'circumcision'. > > > > So what? > > > > > >> Also the set of holy scripts is somehow similar. > > > > So what? > > Well, history is a science and somehow similar to crime scene > investigation. > > If there are no written records, you need to make (educated) guesses and > try to figure out, what was going on, by analysing minuscule hints. > > The Islam and the Jews have both a set of scripts, they regard as holy. > The overall structure of this set is quite similar, only the names and > the content is different. > > > > >> They both forbid the consume of pig and both have the obscure punishment > >> called 'stoning'. > > > > How is stoning "obsure"? > > > > 'Stoning' as an extremely brutal way of execution. It has also the > disadvantage to include bystanders in the process of a killing, what > makes the members of such a crowd literally murderers. Yes, that's the whole fucking point. The whole community has to be guilty. It's basic practice with tyrannies. It's such a universal thing that it made its way in the Hostel movies, where the people who paid for the chance to do anything they want to innocent people were not allowed to leave until they had killed someone. -- JD Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.
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| From | Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-17 04:18 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <hlwdjsd2-61872D.04185517092016@news.giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #2169613 |
In article <e445djFmdedU1@mid.individual.net>, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote: > Am 16.09.2016 07:57, schrieb Jeanne Douglas: > > >> Actually I had similar ideas earlier after reading a German version of > >> the Koran in a 19th century translation. > >> > >> I found it interesting, that the Koran apparently speaks to people which > >> are called 'Children of Israel', which Allah helped to flee from the > >> Pharao by splitting apart the Red Sea. > > > > So what you're saying is that the Koran has the same stupid myths as the > > Bible. So fucking what? > > > > > >> Common Muslims cannot read this, since the Koran is written in ancient > >> Arabic. > >> > >> Arabic has a difficult system of writing, since the vowels are not > >> written. This allows to interpret the words in up to 30 different > >> meanings. And that could allow different translations. > >> > >> Since German 19th century historians have no obvious bias towards any > >> interpretation, they are kind of 'objective' source for a valid > >> translation, while especially the Egyptians have a bias. > >> > >> So my - naive - question was, if Jews and Muslims have something in common. > >> > >> Actually there are a few things, that both religions share. > >> > >> For instance they share the bizarre habit called 'circumcision'. > > > > So what? > > > > > >> Also the set of holy scripts is somehow similar. > > > > So what? > > Well, history is a science and somehow similar to crime scene > investigation. > > If there are no written records, you need to make (educated) guesses and > try to figure out, what was going on, by analysing minuscule hints. > > The Islam and the Jews have both a set of scripts, they regard as holy. > The overall structure of this set is quite similar, only the names and > the content is different. > > > > >> They both forbid the consume of pig and both have the obscure punishment > >> called 'stoning'. > > > > How is stoning "obsure"? > > > > 'Stoning' as an extremely brutal way of execution. It has also the > disadvantage to include bystanders in the process of a killing, what > makes the members of such a crowd literally murderers. > > > > >> Another stream of observations was related to the question, to where the > >> 'Children of Israel' went after the passage through the Red Sea. > > > > You mean the fictional journey that took 40 years in an area about the > > same size as small state West Virginia? And that left not one shred of > > evidence of millions of alleged Jews living for 40 years. > > I mean the question, who these people are, which the Koran calls > 'Children of Israel'. People who didn't exist can't be called anything. Duh! -- JD Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.
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| From | Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-17 04:19 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <hlwdjsd2-8B2161.04191417092016@news.giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #2169613 |
In article <e445djFmdedU1@mid.individual.net>, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote: > Am 16.09.2016 07:57, schrieb Jeanne Douglas: > > >> Actually I had similar ideas earlier after reading a German version of > >> the Koran in a 19th century translation. > >> > >> I found it interesting, that the Koran apparently speaks to people which > >> are called 'Children of Israel', which Allah helped to flee from the > >> Pharao by splitting apart the Red Sea. > > > > So what you're saying is that the Koran has the same stupid myths as the > > Bible. So fucking what? > > > > > >> Common Muslims cannot read this, since the Koran is written in ancient > >> Arabic. > >> > >> Arabic has a difficult system of writing, since the vowels are not > >> written. This allows to interpret the words in up to 30 different > >> meanings. And that could allow different translations. > >> > >> Since German 19th century historians have no obvious bias towards any > >> interpretation, they are kind of 'objective' source for a valid > >> translation, while especially the Egyptians have a bias. > >> > >> So my - naive - question was, if Jews and Muslims have something in common. > >> > >> Actually there are a few things, that both religions share. > >> > >> For instance they share the bizarre habit called 'circumcision'. > > > > So what? > > > > > >> Also the set of holy scripts is somehow similar. > > > > So what? > > Well, history is a science and somehow similar to crime scene > investigation. > > If there are no written records, you need to make (educated) guesses and > try to figure out, what was going on, by analysing minuscule hints. > > The Islam and the Jews have both a set of scripts, they regard as holy. > The overall structure of this set is quite similar, only the names and > the content is different. > > > > >> They both forbid the consume of pig and both have the obscure punishment > >> called 'stoning'. > > > > How is stoning "obsure"? > > > > 'Stoning' as an extremely brutal way of execution. It has also the > disadvantage to include bystanders in the process of a killing, what > makes the members of such a crowd literally murderers. > > > > >> Another stream of observations was related to the question, to where the > >> 'Children of Israel' went after the passage through the Red Sea. > > > > You mean the fictional journey that took 40 years in an area about the > > same size as small state West Virginia? And that left not one shred of > > evidence of millions of alleged Jews living for 40 years. > > I mean the question, who these people are, which the Koran calls > 'Children of Israel'. > > > > >> Actually Palestine was not an obvious target, since not located on the > >> other side of the Red Sea. > >> > >> But how about Saudi Arabia? > > > > What the fuck are you talking about? > > > > "The Real Mount Sinai Found! " No, it hasn't. -- JD Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.
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| From | Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-17 10:21 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <2iiqtbhn0raubtknpkmd8e3uh51elq527j@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2169613 |
On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 08:16:16 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
wrote:
>>> They both forbid the consume of pig and both have the obscure punishment
>>> called 'stoning'.
>>
>> How is stoning "obsure"?
>>
>
>'Stoning' as an extremely brutal way of execution. It has also the
>disadvantage to include bystanders in the process of a killing, what
>makes the members of such a crowd literally murderers.
Why do you call it a disadvantage? I have known an Air Force guy who
witnessed a stoning in Saudi Arabia; he reports that the participants,
the entire population of the village where the adultery took place,
were enthusiastic. According to their beliefs, they were performing a
valuable community service. I am sure you would not wish to hamper
their religious expression.
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
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| From | Smiler <smiler@jo.king> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-17 16:28 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nrjqun$1ddh$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #2169613 |
On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 08:16:16 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote: > Am 16.09.2016 07:57, schrieb Jeanne Douglas: <snip> >> What the fuck are you talking about? >> > "The Real Mount Sinai Found! " > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c > > "Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai " > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE Merely unevidenced opinion. Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence. And, if true, it makes the bible wrong. -- Smiler, The godless one. aa #2279 Gods are all tailored to order. They are made to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.
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| From | Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-17 18:52 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <e45alqFmn1U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2169805 |
Am 17.09.2016 18:28, schrieb Smiler: >> "The Real Mount Sinai Found!" >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c >> >> "Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai" >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE > > Merely unevidenced opinion. > Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence. > And, if true, it makes the bible wrong. > Religious scripts cannot be wrong, since they do not pretend to be true. So the bible is not a book about real history, even if it refers to historic events. E.g. Eva was not made from the rib of her husband Adam. The story has to be understood in a more symbolic way. Such YouTube videos of amateurs about own findings, on the other hand, attempt to be true, but are often not. So if someone finds something interesting somewhere remote, than the best strategy would be, to research this place independently and with more professional means. But I would doubt, that the Saudis have great interest in research of early Jewish remains in their country. Most likely they would try to divert attention from such places and would not allow access to them. TH
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| From | Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-17 13:57 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mm0rtb1a25i4472gl2r1pqdns2jum68dnk@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #2169815 |
On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 18:52:07 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
wrote:
>Am 17.09.2016 18:28, schrieb Smiler:
>
>>> "The Real Mount Sinai Found!"
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c
>>>
>>> "Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai"
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE
>>
>> Merely unevidenced opinion.
>> Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.
>> And, if true, it makes the bible wrong.
>>
>
>Religious scripts cannot be wrong, since they do not pretend to be true.
You appear to have a very different group of religionists im
Deutschland than we have in the US. Ours are constantly thundering
the Bible is the inerrant Word of Gawd. You don't get much truthier
than the inerrant Word of Gawd.
--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.
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| From | "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-18 09:57 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <e463k5F6edaU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2169815 |
On 18/09/2016 02:52, Thomas Heger wrote: > Am 17.09.2016 18:28, schrieb Smiler: > >>> "The Real Mount Sinai Found!" >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLnXkP5i2c >>> >>> "Forbbiden Pictures Revealed Saudi Arabia Mt. Sinai" >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSuKgz3LweE >> >> Merely unevidenced opinion. >> Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence. >> And, if true, it makes the bible wrong. >> > > Religious scripts cannot be wrong, since they do not pretend to be true. > > So the bible is not a book about real history, even if it refers to > historic events. > > E.g. Eva was not made from the rib of her husband Adam. > > The story has to be understood in a more symbolic way. So they shift from preaching a factual truth to a metaphorical truth. Either way, they still insist that they hold the truth.
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| From | Kurt <passerby31416@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-15 20:19 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <89b7da30-a981-4e28-98fc-0f9f0c7d7fcb@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #2167926 |
Ehhh..Arianism believed Jesus was a god too, the son of God, but not God and subordinate to God. Less monotheist than Christianity, at least their Trinity has the doubletalk claiming it's all the same God, Arianism thinks it's different gods. But yeah, it may be a source for Islam. They all have multiple gods, such as the devil-god. Only the historical Jesus had only One God. And yeah, he was almost certainly crucified. About half of his words, in the Christian Bible or historical sources would get you instantly crucified by the Romans. Historical fact. Judas Thomas, his twin brother went to India, he wasn't substituted in his place. On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 12:45:31 AM UTC-4, Thomas Heger wrote: > Am 13.09.2016 00:18, schrieb Michael Moroney: > > >> 'Mahmed' is actually a title and means 'the one to be praised' and was > >> used for Jesus. > > > >> So Jesus and Mohamed were actually the same person, only slightly > >> 'Arabified'. And Jesus was, of course, Jewish. > > > > Wrong. Jesus (Isa ibn Maryam) is revered in Islam as a prophet, the > > prophet preceding Mohamed. Islam has different beliefs about Jesus, > > he was not God or the Son of God, he was not killed by crucifixion, > > but he did perform miracles. He was mentioned many times in the > > Quran. > > > > And the Jews did originate in the Middle East (unless you want to > > claim that technically they, like all humans, originated in Africa > > long before any civilization) > > The early Christians had no cross as symbol and they did not believe in > trinity, but only in one single god. > > This believe system is called 'Arianism'. > > Jesus was a prophet and not a god himself (for the Arians). > > He was also not crucified. > > This part (son of god, crucification, wonders, resurrection and so > forth) stems from Egyptian sun-worship and had the form of 'Mitraism' in > Rome. > > Now the Arians were prosecuted after the council of Nicea and had to > flee from Syria. Much later their believe build the roots of what is > today Islam. > > The change from Aramaic language to Arabic changed the title of Jesus > (in Aramaic) 'mahmed' to the name 'Mohammed' in Arabic. > > But originally meant was the exact same person. > > TH
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| From | Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-12 15:31 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7450ae1a-4e29-48bf-8089-b389a9c0705d@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #2167689 |
Big flaw in this story. There were no Hebrew slaves in Egypt.
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| From | Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-12 19:13 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <hlwdjsd2-800586.19130012092016@news.giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #2167689 |
In article <e3o6boFqpamU1@mid.individual.net>, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote: > Am 12.09.2016 14:57, schrieb Ned Latham: > > >> The exists something called 'freedom of religion'. > > > > What we need is freedom *from* religion; especially, freedom > > from the tax burden that State support of religion imposes > > on us. > > > > ----snip---- > > > >> because they could eventually believe, that extermination of > >> non-believers is allowed (what it is not). > > > > Fundy Jews, Christuans and Muslims believe *exactly* that, > > and all three are guilty of genocide. > > > > Islam, Christianity and Judaism were actually the same religion. > > > This is a very interesting story and goes like this: > > There have been large empires in ancient times, which controlled also > the believes of their people. > > They merged their culture into the exact same early religion, which is > very ancient and stems from Africa. This were the early Jews, before > they went into slavery in Egypt. Since Jews were never slaves in Egypt, there's no need to read any further. -- JD Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.
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| From | Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-13 07:01 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <e3pfgnF5clrU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2167883 |
Am 13.09.2016 04:13, schrieb Jeanne Douglas: >>>> because they could eventually believe, that extermination of >>>> non-believers is allowed (what it is not). >>> >>> Fundy Jews, Christuans and Muslims believe *exactly* that, >>> and all three are guilty of genocide. >>> >> >> Islam, Christianity and Judaism were actually the same religion. >> >> >> This is a very interesting story and goes like this: >> >> There have been large empires in ancient times, which controlled also >> the believes of their people. >> >> They merged their culture into the exact same early religion, which is >> very ancient and stems from Africa. This were the early Jews, before >> they went into slavery in Egypt. > > > Since Jews were never slaves in Egypt, there's no need to read any > further. > Moses & The Queen of Sheba 3:06 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqtJsotUU4s The Queen of Sheba was the Empress of Ethiopia who married the Egyptian (Tut-)Moses. They ruled a kingdom, which also contained the former people of Ethiopia (which were Jewish). The male line of Egyptian Sun worship then merged with monotheism in the female line (Judaism). So the original Jews must have been black people like today Ethiopians. If you call the citizens of that time 'slaves' is actually a question for debate. TH
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| From | Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-12 22:29 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <hlwdjsd2-F6A2AF.22292512092016@news.giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #2167930 |
In article <e3pfgnF5clrU1@mid.individual.net>, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote: > Am 13.09.2016 04:13, schrieb Jeanne Douglas: > > >>>> because they could eventually believe, that extermination of > >>>> non-believers is allowed (what it is not). > >>> > >>> Fundy Jews, Christuans and Muslims believe *exactly* that, > >>> and all three are guilty of genocide. > >>> > >> > >> Islam, Christianity and Judaism were actually the same religion. > >> > >> > >> This is a very interesting story and goes like this: > >> > >> There have been large empires in ancient times, which controlled also > >> the believes of their people. > >> > >> They merged their culture into the exact same early religion, which is > >> very ancient and stems from Africa. This were the early Jews, before > >> they went into slavery in Egypt. > > > > > > Since Jews were never slaves in Egypt, there's no need to read any > > further. > > > > Moses & The Queen of Sheba 3:06 > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqtJsotUU4s > > The Queen of Sheba was the Empress of Ethiopia who married the Egyptian > (Tut-)Moses. > > They ruled a kingdom, which also contained the former people of Ethiopia > (which were Jewish). > > The male line of Egyptian Sun worship then merged with monotheism in the > female line (Judaism). > > So the original Jews must have been black people like today Ethiopians. > > If you call the citizens of that time 'slaves' is actually a question > for debate. Where's your evidence that Jews were ever slaves in Egypt? That line of nonsense is not evidence. -- JD Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.
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| From | Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-13 08:21 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <e3pk7kF6dubU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2167933 |
Am 13.09.2016 07:29, schrieb Jeanne Douglas: >> >> Moses& The Queen of Sheba 3:06 >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqtJsotUU4s >> >> The Queen of Sheba was the Empress of Ethiopia who married the Egyptian >> (Tut-)Moses. >> >> They ruled a kingdom, which also contained the former people of Ethiopia >> (which were Jewish). >> >> The male line of Egyptian Sun worship then merged with monotheism in the >> female line (Judaism). >> >> So the original Jews must have been black people like today Ethiopians. >> >> If you call the citizens of that time 'slaves' is actually a question >> for debate. > > > Where's your evidence that Jews were ever slaves in Egypt? That line of > nonsense is not evidence. > Sorry, but my knowledge of the Bible is only fragmentary. But as far as I know the Jews had to flee from Egypt. This escape was possible because the Red Sea split apart and drowned the prosecuting Egyptians. The Jews came to Egypt, because they were give to the Pharao as kind of tribute. Since it was the Queen of Sheba, who gave them to the Pharao, the Jews had to stem from her kingdom (->Ethiopia). So original Jews would have been 'black'. TH
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