Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > alt.atheism > #2078970 > unrolled thread

Atheist are Blind..

Back to article view | Back to alt.atheism

Contents

  Atheist are Blind.. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-03-23 19:26 -0800
    Re: Atheist are Blind.. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-03-23 21:56 -0800
      Re: Atheist are Blind.. Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> - 2016-03-24 09:29 +0000
        Re: Atheist are Blind.. Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-03-24 05:01 -0700
          Re: Atheist are Blind.. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-03-24 11:25 -0800
            Re: Atheist are Blind.. hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-03-24 20:19 -0700
        Re: Atheist are Blind.. jackpineforeveryone@gmail.com - 2016-03-24 20:57 -0700
          Re: Atheist are Blind.. Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> - 2016-03-25 13:01 +0000
            Re: Atheist are Blind.. jackpineforme@gmail.com - 2016-03-25 07:11 -0700
      Re: Atheist are Blind.. Tim <cyfur12345@gmail.com> - 2016-03-24 02:42 -0700
        Re: Atheist are Blind.. "Let Cos. Be - No Justice For Sluts" <opuzayo@gmail.com> - 2016-03-24 10:02 -0700
          Re: Atheist are Blind.. Tim <cyfur12345@gmail.com> - 2016-03-24 10:15 -0700
      Re: Atheist are Blind.. hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-03-24 03:11 -0700
      Re: Atheist are Blind.. John Locke <johnnydemon666@demonmail.com> - 2016-03-24 09:34 -0700
      Re: Atheist are Blind.. jackpineforme@gmail.com - 2016-03-24 09:51 -0700
      Re: Atheist are Blind.. "Let Cos. Be - No Justice For Sluts" <opuzayo@gmail.com> - 2016-03-24 09:58 -0700
      Re: Atheist are Blind.. Greywolf <greywolftheatheist@gmail.com> - 2016-03-24 10:28 -0700
        Re: Atheist are Blind.. Robert Duncan <rob-duncan32@outlook.com> - 2016-03-24 14:50 -0400
          Re: Atheist are Blind.. Greywolf <greywolftheatheist@gmail.com> - 2016-03-24 21:00 -0700
            Re: Atheist are Blind.. Robert Duncan <rob-duncan32@outlook.com> - 2016-03-25 00:22 -0400
      Re: Atheist are Blind.. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-03-24 11:26 -0800
        Re: Atheist are Blind.. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-03-24 11:46 -0800
        Re: Atheist are Blind.. hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-03-24 20:21 -0700
          Re: Atheist are Blind.. "%" <persent@gmail.com> - 2016-03-24 20:37 -0700
        Re: Atheist are Blind.. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-03-25 09:10 -0800
          Re: Atheist are Blind.. benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-03-25 13:35 -0400
            Re: Atheist are Blind.. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-03-25 12:45 -0800
      Re: Atheist are Blind.. Davej <galt_57@hotmail.com> - 2016-03-24 20:59 -0700

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#2078970 — Atheist are Blind..

to be continued..

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079014

The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> to be continued..



Atheist are Blind...

wat i mean is..

Atheist have this mantra...

"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"

But the question is...from Who????




to be continued...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079058

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 21:56:35 -0800, The Starmaker
<starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>The Starmaker wrote:
>> 
>> to be continued..
>
>
>
>Atheist are Blind...
>
>wat i mean is..
>
>Atheist have this mantra...

>
>"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
>"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
>"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
>
>But the question is...from Who????

The people who make the claims of course,
Who else?

Personally I have stopped asking knowing that I
will not get an answer. If they do not offer up evidence
with their claims (or assertions) I just simply dismiss
them silently without even bothering to tell them


Les Hellawell
Grreting from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County

Martin Luther wrote::
"Faith must trample underfoot all sense, reason and understanding

Which means that if Luther practised what he preached
nothing he ever said made any sense

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079084

In article <mec7fbh7drda7j82gbgrfsrbdltdbb8s4p@4ax.com>,
 Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 21:56:35 -0800, The Starmaker
> <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> 
> >The Starmaker wrote:
> >> 
> >> to be continued..
> >
> >
> >
> >Atheist are Blind...
> >
> >wat i mean is..
> >
> >Atheist have this mantra...
> 
> >
> >"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> >"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> >"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> >
> >But the question is...from Who????
> 
> The people who make the claims of course,
> Who else?
> 
> Personally I have stopped asking knowing that I
> will not get an answer. If they do not offer up evidence
> with their claims (or assertions) I just simply dismiss
> them silently without even bothering to tell them


I like to give them the opportunity to be honest. I don't expect them 
to, but I always like to give them the opportunity.

-- 

JD

"If ANYONE will not welcome you or listen to 
your words, LEAVE that home or town and shake 
the dust off your feet." Matthew 10:14

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079232

Jeanne Douglas wrote:
> 
> In article <mec7fbh7drda7j82gbgrfsrbdltdbb8s4p@4ax.com>,
>  Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 21:56:35 -0800, The Starmaker
> > <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >
> > >The Starmaker wrote:
> > >>
> > >> to be continued..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Atheist are Blind...
> > >
> > >wat i mean is..
> > >
> > >Atheist have this mantra...
> >
> > >
> > >"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> > >"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> > >"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> > >
> > >But the question is...from Who????
> >
> > The people who make the claims of course,
> > Who else?
> >
> > Personally I have stopped asking knowing that I
> > will not get an answer. If they do not offer up evidence
> > with their claims (or assertions) I just simply dismiss
> > them silently without even bothering to tell them
> 
> I like to give them the opportunity to be honest. I don't expect them
> to, but I always like to give them the opportunity.


What makes you think they are NOT honest???

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079532

On Friday, March 25, 2016 at 2:25:38 AM UTC+8, The Starmaker wrote:
> Jeanne Douglas wrote:
> > 
> > In article <mec7fbh7drda7j82gbgrfsrbdltdbb8s4p@4ax.com>,
> >  Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 21:56:35 -0800, The Starmaker
> > > <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >The Starmaker wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> to be continued..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Atheist are Blind...
> > > >
> > > >wat i mean is..
> > > >
> > > >Atheist have this mantra...
> > >
> > > >
> > > >"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> > > >"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> > > >"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> > > >
> > > >But the question is...from Who????
> > >
> > > The people who make the claims of course,
> > > Who else?
> > >
> > > Personally I have stopped asking knowing that I
> > > will not get an answer. If they do not offer up evidence
> > > with their claims (or assertions) I just simply dismiss
> > > them silently without even bothering to tell them
> > 
> > I like to give them the opportunity to be honest. I don't expect them
> > to, but I always like to give them the opportunity.
> 
> 
> What makes you think they are NOT honest???

Bible made all the dishonest claims and believers followed this con book.
Why would any sane people think they are honest?????

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079550

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 5:30:38 AM UTC-4, Les Hellawell wrote:

> 
> Personally I have stopped asking knowing that I
> will not get an answer. 

I think you've got to move beyond this childish level of discourse.  So there's no god--great, move on to something relevant.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079736

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 20:57:28 -0700 (PDT),
jackpineforeveryone@gmail.com wrote:

>On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 5:30:38 AM UTC-4, Les Hellawell wrote:
>
>> 
>> Personally I have stopped asking knowing that I
>> will not get an answer. 
>
>I think you've got to move beyond this childish level of discourse.  So there's no god--great, 
>move on to something relevant.

It looks like you have not seen what I wrote in full only the chopped 
version

Here is what I wrote in full

> > > Personally I have stopped asking knowing that I
> > > will not get an answer. If they do not offer up evidence
> > > with their claims (or assertions) I just simply dismiss
> > > them silently without even bothering to tell them

As you can see there was no discourse as I silently dismissed
what they claimed and moved  on to the next post.

And no I do not say there is no god please do not try to put
words into my mouth. All I am doing is dismissing
something asserted  without supporting  evidence nothing
more nothing less and nothing else.

If they asserted there was no god that would be dismissed
too as an unsupported assertion if not accompanied by some
evidence it was so. 

Les Hellawell
Grreting from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County

Martin Luther wrote::
"Faith must trample underfoot all sense, reason and understanding

Which means that if Luther practised what he preached
nothing he ever said made any sense

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079757

Okay.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079066

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 12:55:30 AM UTC-4, The Starmaker wrote:
> The Starmaker wrote:
> > 
> > to be continued..
> 
> 
> 
> Atheist are Blind...
> 
> wat i mean is..
> 
> Atheist have this mantra...
> 
> "I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> "I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> "I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> 
> But the question is...from Who????

From the idiots like you who make outrageous claims with no evidence and yet expect sane people to take them seriously.

> 
> 
> 
> 
> to be continued...

Don't worry, nobody expects that you'll stop being an idiot.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079185

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 5:42:07 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote:

> > 
> > But the question is...from Who????
> 
> From the idiots like you who make outrageous claims with no evidence and yet expect sane people to take them seriously.



You have NO clear understanding how this evidence should be applied and what the ground rules should be... Talk about about an ignorant running his mouth without any clue of the mystery.





> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > to be continued...
> 
> Don't worry, nobody expects that you'll stop being an idiot.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079195

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 1:02:14 PM UTC-4, Let Cos. Be - No Justice For Sluts wrote:
> On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 5:42:07 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > > But the question is...from Who????
> > 
> > From the idiots like you who make outrageous claims with no evidence and yet expect sane people to take them seriously.
> 
> 
> 
> You have NO clear understanding how this evidence 

You have no evidence to understand, just lame excuses.

>should be applied and what the ground rules should be... Talk about about an ignorant running his mouth without any clue of the mystery.

That's exactly what I'm talking about - ignorant people like you talking shit without evidence. If you've got some, present it, if not, stop being a petty, babble bothered,  poseur.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > to be continued...
> > 
> > Don't worry, nobody expects that you'll stop being an idiot.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079072

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 12:55:30 PM UTC+8, The Starmaker wrote:
> The Starmaker wrote:
> > 
> > to be continued..
> 
> 
> 
> Atheist are Blind...
> 
> wat i mean is..
> 
> Atheist have this mantra...
> 
> "I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> "I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> "I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"

The evidence has never been possible, right?
> 
> But the question is...from Who????

The believing suckers....for more than 2000 years, no one has claimed the Noble prize for showing the evidence, yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to be continued...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079166

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 21:56:35 -0800, The Starmaker
<starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>The Starmaker wrote:
>> 
>> to be continued..
>
>
>
>Atheist are Blind...
>
>wat i mean is..
>
>Atheist have this mantra...
>
>"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
>"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
>"I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
>
>But the question is...from Who????
>
...you made the outrageous claim. It's your responsibly to back it up 
with verifiable proof. So far, after thousands of years, there's not
one molecule of evidence. Nothing. Yet you persist with your delusion.
And then you wonder why people with rational, reasonable minds reject 
your bizarre, disjointed, twisted conception of reality. Totally
bonkers in all respects.  

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079174

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 12:55:30 AM UTC-4, The Starmaker wrote:
> The Starmaker wrote:
> > 
> > to be continued..
> 
> 
> 
> Atheist are Blind...
> 
> wat i mean is..
> 
> Atheist have this mantra...
> 
> "I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> "I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> "I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> 
> But the question is...from Who????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to be continued...

For me, the source for evidence could come from anyone or from anywhere.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079180

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 12:55:30 AM UTC-4, The Starmaker wrote:
> The Starmaker wrote:
> > 
> > to be continued..
> 
> 
> 
> Atheist are Blind...
> 
> wat i mean is..
> 
> Atheist have this mantra...
> 
> "I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> "I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> "I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"



At least If they knew what they were talking about when using the word evidence and the ground rules that which we should expect....



> 
> But the question is...from Who????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to be continued...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079199

On Wednesday, March 23, 2016 at 9:55:30 PM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote:
> The Starmaker wrote:
> > 
> > to be continued..
> 
> 
> 
> Atheist are Blind...
> 
> wat i mean is..
> 
> Atheist have this mantra...
> 
> "I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> "I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> "I'm still waiting for proof or evidence!!!"
> 
> But the question is...from Who????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to be continued...

_________

Tell us, is the "God" you claim exists the being that created very evil itself, or would that be some *other* "God" that did?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079245

On 3/24/2016 1:28 PM, Greywolf wrote:

> Tell us, is the "God" you claim exists the being that created very evil itself?

Evil is not a "thing" that had to be created.  The word "evil"
is used
primarily as an adjective, describing the actions and intentions of
a morally corrupt person.

"Augustine's view of evil, which is based on a profound blend of
Christian faith and Platonist philosophy, resulted from his
efforts to think his way out of Manicheanism. The Manicheans
were deeply concerned with the question: "Where does evil come
from?" Since they were unwilling to say God created evil, they
concluded it must always have existed. So evil, on their view,
is just as real and eternal as God—and just as powerful. Their
heresy, as Augustine later saw it, was a kind of dualism,
because it made God and evil into two equal principles at the
foundation of all existence. Augustine's alternative is to see
evil as a kind of non-being. This may sound strange, but it
follows from a fundamental conviction of the Christian faith,
which is shared by Platonism: that all being is fundamentally
good, for it comes from the supreme Good, which is God. The
Christian way to put it is: God created everything, and
everything he created is good (see Genesis 1:31). So Augustine
thinks the Manicheans were right to say that God couldn't have
created evil, but he has a different explanation of why: God
didn't create evil because evil is not a being at all, and
therefore is not a being that can be created. Of course, this
means Augustine must explain how evil can be real and present in
our world if it has no being. To understand how he does this, it
helps to start with an image. Think of a rip or hole in a shirt.
It has no being or substance of its own, but it's really there
and it's bad for the shirt. Augustine could call it an evil in
the shirt because in Latin, the language in which he wrote, the
word for "evil" is also the word for "bad" (malum). A shirt with
a hole in it is a bad shirt, and that shows us what evil is
like: it's really there and it messes things up, even though it
has no true being."
[Quoted from:  http://www.academia.edu/2537529/Augustine_on_Evil]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079554

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 11:49:07 AM UTC-7, Robert Duncan wrote:
> On 3/24/2016 1:28 PM, Greywolf wrote:
> 
> > Tell us, is the "God" you claim exists the being that created very evil itself?
> 
> Evil is not a "thing" that had to be created.  

You are soooooo damn deceitful. How many times do you have to be told that I've said evil "exists"! *You're* the one who keeps calling it a "thing,' not me.

The word "evil"
> is used
> primarily as an adjective, describing the actions and intentions of
> a morally corrupt person.

Okay. Now explain HOW a "morally corrupt" person could become "morally corrupt" without "evil" existing? Hint: you can't.

> 
> "Augustine's view of evil, which is based on a profound blend of
> Christian faith and Platonist philosophy, resulted from his
> efforts to think his way out of Manicheanism. The Manicheans
> were deeply concerned with the question: "Where does evil come
> from?" Since they were unwilling to say God created evil, 

See how desperate people are to lay the blame on anything else OTHER than the God Jesus, which, as you already know is said by Scripture itself to blame the God Jesus for having created EVERYTHING in existence: both "seen and unseen"?

(John 1:3; Colossians 1:16)

they
> concluded it must always have existed. So evil, on their view,
> is just as real and eternal as God--and just as powerful. Their
> heresy, as Augustine later saw it, was a kind of dualism,
> because it made God and evil into two equal principles at the
> foundation of all existence.

 Augustine's alternative is to see
> evil as a kind of non-being. 

That's right, it's a "STATE of being" just as "good" is.

This may sound strange, but it
> follows from a fundamental conviction of the Christian faith,
> which is shared by Platonism: that all being is fundamentally
> good, 

That's simply untrue. Because the ONLY place that even the idea, the thought, the concept of EVIL is from none other than God's being. It certainly didn't exist OUTSIDE His being, because God was EVERYTHING.

When the God Jesus delved into His being and conjured up the idea of evil, that thought was part of his being, his make-up. He could not have gotten the idea from nowhere else but from within *Himself*! And the fact that He used His OWN "free will" to deliberately create very evil itself and choose to unleash it upon both angel and man, shows the evil nature of "God." There's no escaping it.

for it comes from the supreme Good, which is God. 

Bull. That's just "Christian talk" that is simply wrong. Evil HAD to have originated with God because there was no other being capable of creating it within God's universe.

The
> Christian way to put it is: God created everything, and
> everything he created is good (see Genesis 1:31). 

That can't be true because Lucifer and his ARMY of angels had to be ousted from Heaven itself due to their "evil." So Genesis 1:31 is a lie. Satan had been created by God. So the statement above this one is pure "bull"!

So Augustine
> thinks the Manicheans were right to say that God couldn't have
> created evil, but he has a different explanation of why: God
> didn't create evil because evil is not a being at all, 

See the deflection Augustine uses. He tries to make evil a "being." When it is clearly a STATE of being. Just as being "good" is a state of being. No difference.

and
> therefore is not a being that can be created. 

But "Good" isn't a "being" either. But Augustine contradicts himself and now says Good can be created. Well if "Good" can be created, so can "Evil"

But the bottom line is that it is an inescapable truth that BOTH exist. That being the case, we go back to John 1:3, Colossians 1:16, and Revelation 4:11 where the God Jesus is said to have created EVERYTHING in existence. And that would necessarily include evil itself. End of story.

Of course, this
> means Augustine must explain how evil can be real and present in
> our world if it has no being. To understand how he does this, it
> helps to start with an image. Think of a rip or hole in a shirt.
> It has no being or substance of its own, but it's really there
> and it's bad for the shirt. 

That's simply playing parlor games. The hole in the shirt is EVERY BIT as "real" as the shirt is. Both the "hole" and the "shirt" exist. Just as both good and evil exist.

Augustine could call it an evil in
> the shirt because in Latin, the language in which he wrote, the
> word for "evil" is also the word for "bad" (malum). A shirt with
> a hole in it is a bad shirt, and that shows us what evil is
> like: it's really there and it messes things up, even though it
> has no true being."

> [Quoted from:  http://www.academia.edu/2537529/Augustine_on_Evil]

So there you have it. Augustine admits evil DOES exist, but argues it's not a "being." Of course not! No  more than "good" is a "being." Both are STATES of being. Both exist. And both were created by the God Jesus according to Scripture. 

Robert has done nothing but lead us on a wild goose chase which ends up right were we started--with the evil God Jesus creating evil itself and mercilessly unleashing it upon both angel and man.

And you stupid-ass Christians are trying to promote belief in, and worship and adoration of the vile thing. Man, are you all ever "NUTS"!!!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#2079577

On 3/25/2016 12:00 AM, Greywolf wrote:
> On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 11:49:07 AM UTC-7, Robert Duncan wrote:
>> On 3/24/2016 1:28 PM, Greywolf wrote:
>>
>>> Tell us, is the "God" you claim exists the being that created very evil itself?
>>
>> Evil is not a "thing" that had to be created.  
> 
> How many times do you have to
> be told that I've said evil "exists"! You're the one who
> keeps calling it a "thing,' not me.

That is a lie.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | alt.atheism

csiph-web