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Re: Atheism is Witchcraft

Message-ID <57DB88A6.575D@ix.netcom.com> (permalink)
Date 2016-09-15 22:52 -0700
From The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups alt.atheism, rec.arts.sf.written, sci.physics, sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Atheism is Witchcraft
References (6 earlier) <nrcmm5$evj$1@gioia.aioe.org> <57da172e$0$61822$c3e8da3$e074e489@news.astraweb.com> <e3uup5Ff2bcU1@mid.individual.net> <hlwdjsd2-DBC024.02505215092016@news.giganews.com> <e40fpdFqrs6U1@mid.individual.net>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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Thomas Heger wrote:
> 
> Am 15.09.2016 11:50, schrieb Jeanne Douglas:
> 
> >> Services of the various kinds, like e.g. the work of a lawyer, do not
> >> necessarily contain material objects.
> >>
> >> This is why they are called 'services' and not 'sale'.
> >>
> >> Commercial services are different to churches, since they are in fact
> >> commercial, while a church is not.
> >>
> >> Most religions are strictly non-commercial.
> >
> > BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> 
> Most people overestimate the importance of money.
> 
> A church is not really a business and has not primarily commercial
> interests. Churches are related to the spiritual realm and cover
> philosophical questions, ethics and moral.
> 
> People also try to acquire certain experiences, that are elevated above
> the usual life.
> 
> Something as profane as money does not really fit into such a picture.
> 
> And most churches are actually poor.
> 
> But there are major exceptions from this rule, like e.g. the Catholic
> Church.
> 
> But being wealthy does not mean, that the Catholics only exist to earn
> money.
> 
> TH


a church is a hospitol for sinners...if you murder someone, and it
bothers you...you don't want to be stupid enought to confess to
the police...you confess to the church. It's a hospitol for...sinners.

Then you're free to murder someone else.

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Thread

Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-11 12:43 -0700
  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Davej <galt_57@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-11 13:06 -0700
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft WeHang FagZ And Jews Too <macabbeus@gmail.com> - 2016-09-11 13:27 -0700
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-11 23:44 +0000
  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> - 2016-09-11 16:43 -0400
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-11 23:20 -0400
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-12 00:38 -0700
  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-11 14:13 -0700
  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Normal Human <NH@....> - 2016-09-12 08:01 +1000
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-11 15:24 -0700
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-11 16:28 -0600
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-12 00:06 +0000
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-12 07:31 +0200
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-12 12:57 +0000
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-12 08:57 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-12 14:26 +0000
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-12 19:18 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-12 12:37 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-12 22:43 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-12 19:14 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-09-12 22:18 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 06:45 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-12 23:56 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 08:16 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-13 00:07 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 22:00 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-13 20:53 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-14 20:15 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-15 01:34 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-15 08:23 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-15 03:33 -0400
                Re: Theism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-15 11:29 -0600
                Re: Theism is Witchcraft John Locke <johnnydemon666@demonmail.com> - 2016-09-15 11:14 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-15 20:44 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-09-16 06:34 +1000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-15 20:02 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-15 19:05 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-16 10:25 +1000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-15 22:11 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 19:25 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-16 06:20 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 22:57 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 08:16 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-17 07:01 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-17 11:54 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-18 09:55 +1000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 04:18 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 04:18 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 04:19 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2016-09-17 10:21 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-17 16:28 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 18:52 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2016-09-17 13:57 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-18 09:57 +1000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Kurt <passerby31416@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 20:19 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-12 15:31 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-12 19:13 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 07:01 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-12 22:29 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 08:21 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-13 00:05 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-13 07:49 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-13 18:03 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-13 21:00 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-14 06:27 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-14 02:45 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-14 11:14 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-14 06:44 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-14 12:31 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-14 07:57 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-14 15:02 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 03:02 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-15 15:38 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 03:00 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-15 15:29 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 02:55 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-15 14:57 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> - 2016-09-15 19:37 +0100
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-14 01:34 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-14 11:16 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-14 19:45 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-14 14:43 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-16 07:01 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 22:58 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "%" <persent@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 23:13 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-16 03:49 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-16 08:00 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Hot-Text" <hot-text@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-16 18:57 -0500
                Re: Theism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-16 22:06 -0600
                "Wisely Non-Theist" "Billy_Ray_Ferrell_USA-VP_2016" <billyrferrell@minpin.mshome.net> - 2016-09-17 00:32 -0500
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2016-09-12 17:55 -0400
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> - 2016-09-11 19:08 -0400
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hypatiab7 <hypatiab7@comcast.net> - 2016-09-11 15:40 -0700
  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hypatiab7 <hypatiab7@comcast.net> - 2016-09-11 15:26 -0700
  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft default <default@defaulter.net> - 2016-09-12 07:19 -0400
  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 00:27 -0700
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 00:34 -0700
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 09:07 -0700
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 09:21 -0700
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 09:42 -0700
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-14 10:21 -0700
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-14 14:37 -0400
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-14 12:06 -0700
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hypatiab7 <hypatiab7@comcast.net> - 2016-09-16 22:42 -0700
  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Locke <johnnydemon666@demonmail.com> - 2016-09-13 10:15 -0700
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-13 11:45 -0700
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hypatiab7 <hypatiab7@comcast.net> - 2016-09-16 22:57 -0700
  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-14 09:10 +1000
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-13 17:21 -0600
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-13 19:59 -0400
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-14 03:15 +0200
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-13 20:33 -0500
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-13 22:09 -0400
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-13 20:55 -0700
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-14 20:47 +1000
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> - 2016-09-14 00:26 -0400
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-14 01:16 +0000
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-13 22:01 -0400
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-13 21:12 -0500
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-15 09:32 +1000
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-14 17:38 -0600
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 23:32 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-14 23:15 -0600
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-15 03:33 -0400
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 23:36 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-15 08:52 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft HGW <hw@....> - 2016-09-15 18:01 +1000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 02:50 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-15 22:48 +0200
                Re: Theism is Witchcraft Virgil <VIRGIL@VIRGIL.com> - 2016-09-15 15:02 -0600
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-15 19:23 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2016-09-16 02:58 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-16 08:16 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-16 01:15 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2016-09-16 12:50 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-17 01:38 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Don Martin <drdonmartin@comcast.net> - 2016-09-17 10:21 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-17 16:42 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-15 23:41 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-15 22:52 -0700
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-15 17:45 -0400
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-15 17:15 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-15 21:57 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-16 04:23 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-16 17:06 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-16 16:11 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-16 21:51 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-16 21:00 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-17 01:56 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 08:30 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-17 07:10 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 04:14 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 16:25 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-17 16:44 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-17 12:27 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-17 17:26 +0000
                Re: Theism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-17 11:48 -0600
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-17 12:54 -0500
                Re: Theism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-17 12:47 -0600
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 20:50 +0200
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-17 17:31 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-17 12:00 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-17 17:25 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-16 20:44 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-16 17:49 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-16 21:51 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-16 02:49 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-16 03:47 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-16 05:57 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-16 17:12 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-16 16:22 -0500
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-17 19:00 +0200
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> - 2016-09-14 00:25 -0400
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 00:28 -0400
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-14 20:08 +0000
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-14 15:13 -0500
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-14 18:10 -0400
  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-14 03:58 -0400
  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft tirebiter <dontspamme666@bigfoot.com> - 2016-09-14 18:51 -0700
  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-15 23:22 -0700

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