Re: operator precedence

From	Guillaume <message@bottle.org>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: operator precedence
Date	2022-04-11 20:52 +0200
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<t31tda$1ohm$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	<thought-20220408125437@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> <t2v61c$ej9$1@gioia.aioe.org> <87bkx868cm.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

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Le 10/04/2022 à 21:34, Ben a écrit :
> Guillaume <message@bottle.org> writes:
> 
>> Le 08/04/2022 à 14:00, Stefan Ram a écrit :
>>>     Recently, I wrote:
>>> board & 1 << row * COLS + col
>>
>> If I saw this coming from someone in my team, I would probably fire
>> them. =)
> 
> Why is this such a common trope?  I doubt any country has such poor
> employment protection that anyone could be fired for such a thing so I
> assume it's just a rhetorical device to say "I really care about this
> issue", but surely there are other ways to do that without being so
> Donal^H^H^H^H Alan Sugar about it.

Come on. I thought the smiley would convey the idea that it was 
tongue-in-cheek, but apparently not. So yeah for those taking everything 
literally, this was just a humorous way of showing a strong disagreement.

>> The readability rule that applies here is, if you need more than a few
>> seconds figuring out what a given statement exactly does, and may have
>> to even open the C standard to make sure, then it's badly
>> written. Rewrite it.
> 
> The trouble with this (since I don't think you literally mean "you"
> here) is who is the typical reader?  Do you aim for the lowest common
> denominator, or something in the middle?  Does is vary by team?  If it's
> a C compiler project, might you assume a higher standard of
> comprehension?

Readability, and trying to avoid hard-to-spot errors goes beyond being 
skilled and knowing grammars by heart. It's not a matter of being good 
or bad. For insance, indentation and whitespace are basically useless in 
C, but they help readability quite a bit, even if you are an expert in 
the language.

Regarding operator precedence, this is exactly covered by rule 12.1 of 
MISRA-C:2012. "Limited dependence should be placed on operator 
precedence rules in expressions"
It describes with examples what is what is not compliant.
While a number of MISRA-C rules can look "too much" to many, including 
myself, I think that would be a good start here regarding this issue.

And whether you consider those guidelines in general to "aim for the 
lowest common denominator" is debatable. The fact one may be convinced 
to know better than those guidelines is also highly questionable.

Similar rules can be seen in other similar standards/coding guidelines. 
Apparently no one that answered here have ever ahd to deal with any of 
those, otherwise what I said would probably sound pretty obvious.

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Re: operator precedence Guillaume <message@bottle.org> - 2022-04-10 20:01 +0200
  Re: operator precedence Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-04-10 20:34 +0100
    Re: operator precedence Guillaume <message@bottle.org> - 2022-04-11 20:52 +0200
      Re: operator precedence Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-04-11 21:27 +0100
        Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-14 13:38 +0200
          Re: operator precedence Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-04-14 14:07 +0100
            Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-18 14:00 +0200
        Re: operator precedence Guillaume <message@bottle.org> - 2022-04-15 19:28 +0200
          Re: operator precedence Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-04-15 19:25 +0100
            Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-18 14:12 +0200
              Re: operator precedence Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2022-04-18 16:38 +0000
                Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-18 19:20 +0200
                Re: operator precedence Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2022-04-19 17:40 +0000
                Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-19 22:41 +0200
              Re: operator precedence James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2022-04-18 23:08 -0400
                Re: operator precedence Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-04-25 08:40 -0700
                Re: operator precedence "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2022-04-25 10:35 -0700
  Re: operator precedence Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2022-04-10 21:51 +0100
  Re: operator precedence Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-04-11 11:35 +0200
  Re: operator precedence gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-04-11 13:53 +0000
  Re: operator precedence Guillaume <message@bottle.org> - 2022-04-11 20:36 +0200
  Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-14 13:14 +0200
  Re: operator precedence Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-04-25 11:10 -0700
    Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-25 20:52 +0200
      Re: operator precedence Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-04-25 21:18 +0100
        Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-26 15:30 +0200
          Re: operator precedence Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-04-26 15:58 +0100
            Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-26 21:19 +0200
              Re: operator precedence Sams Lara <samlara622@gmail.com> - 2022-04-27 02:15 +0100
                Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-27 09:13 +0200
                Re: operator precedence Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-04-27 19:43 +0100
                Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-28 10:09 +0200
                Re: operator precedence Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-04-28 10:44 +0100
                Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-28 11:59 +0200
                Re: operator precedence Giovanni <lsodgf0@home.net.it> - 2022-04-28 12:29 +0200
                Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-28 12:56 +0200
                Re: operator precedence Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-04-28 04:17 -0700
                Re: operator precedence Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-04-28 12:24 +0100
                Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-28 14:28 +0200
                Re: operator precedence Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2022-04-28 14:00 +0000
                Re: operator precedence Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2022-04-28 14:38 +0000
                Re: operator precedence Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-04-28 20:36 +0100
                Re: operator precedence Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2022-04-28 21:22 +0100
                Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-29 09:43 +0200
                Re: operator precedence Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2022-04-28 20:51 +0000
                Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-29 10:04 +0200
                Re: operator precedence Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-04-29 03:01 -0700
                Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-29 15:02 +0200
                Re: operator precedence James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2022-04-29 10:48 -0400
                Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-29 17:29 +0200
            Re: operator precedence bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2022-04-26 14:30 -0700
              Re: operator precedence Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-04-27 00:00 +0100
              Re: operator precedence David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-04-27 09:46 +0200
          Re: operator precedence Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-04-27 00:10 -0700
    Re: operator precedence scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-04-25 19:02 +0000
      Re: operator precedence Ben <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-04-25 21:38 +0100
        Re: operator precedence Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-04-25 22:22 -0700

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