Groups | Search | Server Info | Login | Register
Groups > comp.soft-sys.math.maple > #193
| From | Ilmari Karonen <usenet2@vyznev.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.soft-sys.math.maple |
| Subject | Missing solution to (1-p)^n = 1-n*p |
| Date | 2011-06-23 14:29 +0000 |
| Organization | vyznev.net |
| Message-ID | <slrnj06jf1.fj7.usenet2@melkki.cs.helsinki.fi> (permalink) |
While I was playing around with probabilities, I noticed that I wasn't
able to get Maple 12 to figure out that
(1-p)^n = 1-n*p
has a solution at n = 1. Of course, it's trivial to verify by
substitution that this is indeed a solution for any p, but I wasn't
able to get solve() to cough it up:
> assume(p > 0, p < 1, n > 0):
> interface(showassumed = 0):
> solve((1-p)^n = 1-n*p, n);
0
OK, n = 0 certainly is a solution, but I'd have liked the other one
too. Let me see if solving for all variables would do any better...
> solve((1-p)^n = 1-n*p);
{n = n, p = -exp(RootOf(_Z n - ln(1 + n exp(_Z) - n))) + 1},
{n = 1, p = 1}
Well, that wasn't very useful. I'm not sure offhand if that RootOf()
can actually take values other than 0, but either way I really wanted
a solution for n, not p. Any why does Maple figure out the specific
solution n = 1, p = 1, but not the more general n = 1, p = p?
Rewriting the left hand side as exp(n*log(1-p)) helps a little...
> solve(exp(n*log(1-p)) = 1-n*p, n);
memory used=3.8MB, alloc=3.2MB, time=0.22
memory used=7.6MB, alloc=5.1MB, time=0.38
ln(1 - p)
ln(1 - p) exp(---------)
p
-LambertW(------------------------) p + ln(1 - p)
p
exp(-------------------------------------------------) - 1
p
- ----------------------------------------------------------, 0
p
...but unfortunately Maple does no better than me in simplifying that
awful nested expression, even though numerical testing does indeed
suggest that it is identically 1 at least for 0 < p < 1.
Solving in the real domain does no better:
> RealDomain[solve]((1-p)^n = 1-n*p, n);
memory used=11.4MB, alloc=5.9MB, time=0.60
(1/p)
ln(1 - p) (1 - p)
-LambertW(-_B3, ----------------------) p + ln(1 - p)
p
exp(-----------------------------------------------------) - 1
p
- --------------------------------------------------------------
p
So, now I'm curious. Is this just a bug in Maple 12, or am I doing
something silly? Or both? And does it work any better in later
versions?
--
Ilmari Karonen
To reply by e-mail, please replace ".invalid" with ".net" in address.
Back to comp.soft-sys.math.maple | Previous | Next — Next in thread | Find similar
Missing solution to (1-p)^n = 1-n*p Ilmari Karonen <usenet2@vyznev.invalid> - 2011-06-23 14:29 +0000
Re: Missing solution to (1-p)^n = 1-n*p Axel Vogt <&noreply@axelvogt.de> - 2011-06-23 18:47 +0200
Re: Missing solution to (1-p)^n = 1-n*p Joe Riel <joer@san.rr.com> - 2011-06-23 10:49 -0700
Re: Missing solution to (1-p)^n = 1-n*p Ilmari Karonen <usenet2@vyznev.invalid> - 2011-06-23 20:12 +0000
csiph-web