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Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed?

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 at 08:38:35, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>> It was an email where (as is usual these days) the text was in all
>> sorts of fonts etc.; as Outlook doesn't make it easy to tell, I don't
>> know if it was a two-part email (see below). The _nominal_ attachment
>> - i. e. the one that Outlook admitted was there - was a PDF.
>
>As I recall, Outlook stores the messages in its database.  The problem
>is that the e-mail's original raw content is stored in the message store
>aka database, and no longer available in its original format.  I used an
>extension called PocketKnife Peek that might've let me see the raw
>content, but it's been too long to remember.  In any case, I could still
>go to my e-mail client using the provider's webmail client, and they had
>a View Source or similar function to let me see the raw content (all the
>text in the e-mail: headers, space line delimiter, all the message as
>text along with any MIME parts).

My/this email client (Turnpike) has an Export function, and also a view 
raw function (same effect other than it doesn't involve a filename).
>
>> Some companies have email software that still sends both parts, but
>> the users at that company are not aware of that fact. And, a recent
>> wrinkle has been that they can break, such that the plain text part
>> is _not_ the same text as the HTML part; I had one within the last
>> day, from a large company, saying they'd extended their offer - to
>> April 2020 (it is now late July 2020); it was only when I looked at
>> the HTML part that I found a mention of August. (I only looked
>> because I've seen this before.)
>
>Even Microsoft was at fault when their Hotmail service, when using
>their webmail client, only included the HTML MIME part, and users had
>no option there to send as plain-text only.  I, and several others,
>complained about their webmail client not including both the text and
>HTML MIME parts.  Took over a year before they fixed it.  I haven't

I'm surprised they did at all.

>tested it lately to see if they reverted to their old way since I
>rarely use webmail clients to send e-mails.
>
>Alas, Outlook 2003 switched to using a stub of Word.  They dumped their
>prior editor and moved to winword.exe (a stripped down or stub portion).
>This broke some old features: GIFs were no longer animated, Flash
>objects shows as a red "X", and HTML accessibility support got broken.
>Supposedly those were due to security concerns.  An animated GIF (rather
>than just showing the first frame) was a security risk?  The Word stub
>was included with Outlook, so you didn't have to install Word to have
>Outlook use the Word stub.

I wouldn't mind if it degraded gracefully/was backwards compatible. But 
as you've discovered:
>
>The result is Outlook pukes a bunch of Word-based directives into the
>HTML part when sending a message.  Only Word knows what the directives
>mean.  The result is HTML-formatted e-mails using Outlook end up with a
>bunch of garbage that no other e-mail client will know how to use.  You
>get an e-mail from a sender using Outlook, look at the raw content, and
>wonder "What the fuck are all these Word-specific directives as comment
>blocks in the HTML MIME part that only Word recognizes.
[]
>As I recall, there were also MSO tags that weren't inside of comment
>blocks.  The HTML message had all this MSO crap that was meaningless to
>all e-mail clients except Outlook.  I faintly recall you could go into
[]
>Like Google flaunting their size to screw with the POP and IMAP
>protocols (why I call them gPOP and gIMAP), Microsoft figured it could
>play with e-mail, HTML, and MIME however they want because of their
>domination in the e-mail client market, especially for businesses.

And they're right; they can do whatever they like (and not just in 
email), because of their dominance.

I've given up fighting - I use Outlook for council business. But I fear 
that if I ever went into business, I'd need to use - or at least accept 
and be able to deal with - it there too )-:.

(To revert to the subject line: I really only asked what happened to the 
_displayed_ size in case someone actually _knew_ - and because I 
remembered when using an _older_ version of Outlook, the displayed size 
[of an email] _did_ fall when I removed an attachment. Seems nobody 
[here, anyway] _does_ know. I should have said "don't put effort into 
finding the answer if you don't know - it's only idle curiosity", or 
something like that.)
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Hadrian's Wall has never been a border between Scotland and England. It lies
entirely within England but, when it was built in AD 122 by the Romans as a
defence against the raiding Picts, the future English were still in Germany
and the Scottish were still in Ireland.
- Michael Cullen, Skye, in RT 2014/12/6-12

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Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-18 16:19 +0100
  Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2020-07-18 17:59 +0200
    Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-18 22:53 +0100
      Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? John Doe <always.look@message.header> - 2020-07-18 22:24 +0000
        Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-18 23:38 +0100
  Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2020-07-18 14:20 -0400
    Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-07-18 19:27 +0100
      Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-18 23:01 +0100
    Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-18 22:56 +0100
    Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2020-07-25 20:30 +0200
  Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-18 21:41 -0500
    Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-19 03:58 +0100
      Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-18 22:50 -0500
        Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-19 16:11 +0100
          Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-19 14:45 -0500
            Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-24 21:11 +0100
              Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2020-07-24 15:31 -0500
                Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-24 21:45 +0100
                Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2020-07-24 16:04 -0500
              Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-24 18:36 -0500
                Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-25 03:03 +0100
                Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-25 08:38 -0500
                Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-25 17:34 +0100
                Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2020-07-25 13:09 -0500
                Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-25 21:22 +0100
                Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-25 19:23 -0500
                Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-26 02:33 +0100
                Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-07-25 21:41 -0400
                Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2020-07-25 19:03 -0500
  Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> - 2020-07-18 22:41 -0700
    Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-19 16:14 +0100
  Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? Philip Herlihy <thiswillbounceback@you.com> - 2020-07-19 13:57 +0100
    Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-19 16:27 +0100
      Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-19 16:33 +0100
        Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2020-07-19 14:29 -0400
  Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2020-07-19 07:04 -0700
    Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-19 16:32 +0100
      Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2020-07-19 11:07 -0700
        Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2020-07-19 22:16 -0500
          Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2020-07-20 07:45 -0700
            Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2020-07-20 10:19 -0500
            Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-07-20 18:20 +0100
              Re: Outlook 365: message sizes not falling when attachments removed? Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2020-07-20 11:10 -0700

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