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Re: Classic OOP in Python

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On 17/06/2015 23:33, sohcahtoa82@gmail.com wrote:
> I had a Java class where we had to learn TDD, and that's the way TDD was taught to us, and I hated it. We watched a video of this guy explaining TDD with a hat that was red on the front and green on the back.  It involved writing a simple failing unit test, then write code to fix it, then refactor the tests and/or code.

I do not think it is important that the test fails before writing the 
code, but for sure it is really wise to ensure every test fails at least 
once. If I wrote a test and it has never failed before, then I always 
change something in the test itself, in order to have an expected 
failure. And sometimes the expected failures make me better understand 
the behavior of the code.

> As an in-class exercise, we had to write an implementation of Conway's Game of Life.  I threw TDD out the window and just wrote the damn program in under 15 minutes, then another 10 minutes to write unit tests that tested every possible code branch and several invalid inputs.  Meanwhile, the people doing TDD the "right" way didn't even have a complete program after over an hour.
>
> The brand of TTD we were taught would end up multiplying development time by at least a factor of 3, and by the time you were done, at least 75% of the tests you had written will have been removed due to rampant refactoring.
>
> IMO, that kind of TTD is an utter waste of time.

I think TDD helps a lot to design the code to be "testable" as much as 
possible. I believe good and experienced programmers could think in 
advance the way to write testable code, without be driven by tests. 
However, I also think that the bigger part of programmers, as me, do not 
have this ability. That's the case TDD comes in handy helping us to 
write testable code.

In case of bug fixing, I think also experienced and good programmers 
that do not believe in TDD should always write the tests in advance, for 
instance because:

* it is really the better way to understand the problem and point to it
* chances are that you will not write a test after fixing the bug, i.e. 
because you may have other priorities, so you will miss a regression test


-- 
Marco Buttu

INAF-Osservatorio Astronomico di Cagliari
Via della Scienza n. 5, 09047 Selargius (CA)
Phone: 070 711 80 217
Email: mbuttu@oa-cagliari.inaf.it

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Classic OOP in Python "Jason P." <suscricions@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 12:21 -0700
  Re: Classic OOP in Python Skip Montanaro <skip.montanaro@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 14:38 -0500
  Re: Classic OOP in Python Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2015-06-17 12:44 -0700
    Re: Classic OOP in Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-06-17 23:39 +0300
      Re: Classic OOP in Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-17 22:07 +0100
      Re: Classic OOP in Python Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2015-06-17 14:14 -0700
        Re: Classic OOP in Python Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-18 00:33 +0200
          Re: Classic OOP in Python Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2015-06-17 15:55 -0700
        Re: Classic OOP in Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-18 11:50 +0100
        Re: Classic OOP in Python Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-19 01:01 +0200
        Re: Classic OOP in Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-20 23:52 +0100
        Re: Classic OOP in Python Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-21 10:26 +0200
      Re: Classic OOP in Python sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-06-17 14:33 -0700
        Re: Classic OOP in Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-17 22:49 +0100
        Re: Classic OOP in Python Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-18 00:22 +0200
        Re: Classic OOP in Python Marco Buttu <marco.buttu@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 11:00 +0200
      Re: Classic OOP in Python Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> - 2015-06-18 00:09 +0200
      Re: Classic OOP in Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-17 23:27 +0100
      Re: Classic OOP in Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2015-06-18 08:58 +1000
        Re: Classic OOP in Python Cousin Stanley <cousinstanley@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 08:10 -0700
      Re: Classic OOP in Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-06-17 19:46 -0400
      Re: Classic OOP in Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 10:07 +1000
      Re: Classic OOP in Python "Jason P." <suscricions@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 04:24 -0700
    Re: Classic OOP in Python "Jason P." <suscricions@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 04:21 -0700
      Re: Classic OOP in Python Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2015-06-18 04:54 -0700
    Re: Classic OOP in Python "Jason P." <suscricions@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 04:22 -0700
  Re: Classic OOP in Python sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-06-17 14:16 -0700
    Re: Classic OOP in Python Fabien <fabien.maussion@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 13:03 +0200
      Re: Classic OOP in Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-06-18 14:25 +0300
      Re: Classic OOP in Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 21:43 +1000

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