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Re: Don't feed the troll...

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Op 15-06-13 21:29, Steven D'Aprano schreef:
> On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 11:18:03 -0700, rusi wrote:
>
>> At least two people -- Alex and Antoon -- have told you that by
>> supporting Nikos, when everyone else wants him off list, you are part of
>> the problem.
>
> And others have publicly thanked me for giving useful answers to Nikos,
> because they have learned from them.

That doesn't contradict that you may be part of the problem. There is
something like the law of diminishing returns. So the kind of respons
that is helpful at the beginnig can become part of the problem when it
becomes part of a seemingly endless cycle.

> You replied to Antoon, and agreed with his position that we should shun
> Nikos, then *immediately* contradicted yourself by stating that Robert
> Kern's helpful answers were "the ideal". And then, just to further
> demonstrate that your actions are at best inconsistent and at worst
> hypocritical, you have since gone on to fire barbs at Nikos instead of
> ignoring him. So please tend to the beam in your own eye before pointing
> at the mote in mine.

So what. We all are somewhat inconsistent and hypocritical. That doesn't
make your responses unproblematic. If in the future you want to respond
like Robert Kern that seems fine enough. But if you continue like you
are now, I'll consider you an enabler.

>> Others -- Fabio -- have indicated their wish to leave the list due to
>> everything becoming Nikos-tainted.
>
> That would be disappointing, but there's nothing I can do about it.

Yes you can. You can stop enabling his behaviour. Now you may think
this is an unacceptable option for and that is something you will
have to decide for yourself but you do have a choice.

>> Everyone is exasperated and talking of kill-filing him.
>
> Then why don't they? "Don't feed the troll" includes trying to beat him
> into submission with insults and half-witty remarks.

Not feeding the troll doesn't help. If people are transgressing the
social norms in a community, they need to get a response that makes
it clear they crossed the line. If they don't you are implicetly
broadcasting the message there is no out of bound behaviour.

> This is not about Nikos. It's about those who are also doing their bit to
> make this community an ugly, hostile place. I won't mention names -- you
> know who you are. Those who take it upon themselves to bait and prod and
> poke Nikos with insults and inflammatory replies.  Appointing themselves
> Internet Police and making ridiculous claims that Nikos ought to be
> reported to the police. Sending bogus complaints to the domain registrar.
> There is a word for this sort of behaviour: bullying. I don't care how
> morally justified you think you are, you are now just as big a part of
> the problem as Nikos.

You are trying to get it both ways. On the one hand you try to argue
that there are no boundaries to what is acceptable by calling people
who do try to enforce such boundaries the Internet Police. On the
other hand you do suggest that playing Internet Police is out of
bound behaviour.

You have to make a choice. Either you don't want to recognize there
can be something like out of bound behaviour and then people making
this community an ugly hostile place is acceptable. Or you think
there is behaviour that is out of bounds and then you must consider
the possiblity that Nikos behaviour is an example of that and that
what you consider ugly responses are people trying to address that
out of bound behaviour and that you responding to Nikos as you do
for the moment is perpetuating Nokos's unacceptable behaviour.

-- 
Antoon Pardon

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Re: Don't feed the troll... "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-15 07:58 -0400
  Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 15:40 +0000
    Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 18:41 +0200
      Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 17:12 +0000
      Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 20:30 +0300
        Re: Don't feed the troll... rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 10:36 -0700
          Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 17:52 +0000
            Re: Don't feed the troll... rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 11:18 -0700
              Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 19:29 +0000
                Re: Don't feed the troll... alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 14:47 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-15 23:04 +0100
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-16 20:16 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-16 20:04 +0000
                Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-16 20:46 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Ferrous Cranus <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-17 08:04 +0300
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 17:23 +1000
                Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-17 07:41 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 07:43 +1000
                Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-17 18:03 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 11:16 +1000
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-17 23:22 +0100
                Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-17 18:08 -0700
                Problems with Python documentation [Re: Don't feed the troll...] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-17 22:50 +0000
                Re: Problems with Python documentation [Re: Don't feed the troll...] Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 21:11 -0400
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-17 10:26 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-17 10:15 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-17 10:56 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-18 10:22 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-18 13:42 +0000
                Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-18 20:46 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-19 12:57 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-19 14:13 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-21 21:32 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-23 07:29 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-24 15:37 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-25 08:56 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-26 21:46 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-26 15:02 -0600
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-27 20:13 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-28 11:20 -0600
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-30 19:25 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-01 07:02 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-07-01 21:38 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-07-02 16:41 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-07-02 00:09 +1000
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 11:50 -0600
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-30 19:56 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-25 11:25 -0600
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-26 20:18 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 12:40 -0600
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-20 00:47 +0000
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-06-19 19:45 -0400
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-20 11:41 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-20 20:40 -0600
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-21 11:18 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 10:19 -0600
                Re: Don't feed the troll... rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-21 11:27 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-17 09:31 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-17 23:02 +0000
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-18 11:02 +0200
              Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-15 12:54 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 23:04 +0300
                Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-15 13:12 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-16 22:52 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-16 20:39 +0200
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Simpleton <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-17 19:03 +0300
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-17 16:14 +0000
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Simpleton <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-17 19:19 +0300
                Re: Don't feed the troll... alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 21:39 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-18 17:21 +1000
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-18 13:38 +0000
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-06-18 19:48 -0400
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-19 03:57 +0000
                Re: Don't feed the troll... rurpy@yahoo.com - 2013-06-18 20:49 -0700
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 17:07 +1000
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-19 07:27 +0000
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-19 17:33 +1000
                Re: Don't feed the troll... Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 11:53 -0400
        Re: Don't feed the troll... Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 11:49 -0600
        Re: Don't feed the troll... Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-15 18:45 +0100
        Re: Don't feed the troll... Andreas Perstinger <andipersti@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 19:58 +0200
      Re: Don't feed the troll... Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-06-17 14:39 +0000
        Re: Don't feed the troll... "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-17 12:35 -0400
        Re: Don't feed the troll... Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2013-06-17 18:42 +0100
          Re: Don't feed the troll... Νίκος <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-17 20:52 +0300
        Re: Don't feed the troll... Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-06-18 22:21 +1000
    Re: Don't feed the troll... "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-15 13:07 -0400
    Mailman forwarding (was: Don't feed the troll...) "W. Trevor King" <wking@tremily.us> - 2013-06-15 13:25 -0400
    Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2013-06-15 19:25 +0200
      Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-15 17:47 +0000
        Re: Don't feed the troll... Nick the Gr33k <support@superhost.gr> - 2013-06-15 21:59 +0300
        Re: Don't feed the troll... Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-16 09:09 +1000
          Re: Don't feed the troll... Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-16 00:51 +0000
            CC etiquette for mailing lists (was: Don't feed the troll...) "W. Trevor King" <wking@tremily.us> - 2013-06-15 21:29 -0400
    Re: Don't feed the troll... "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy@druid.net> - 2013-06-15 13:04 -0400

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