Re: order independent hash?

Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Date	2011-12-01 21:48 -0800
References	(2 earlier) <30715729.411.1322753732534.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pret21> <4ED7A2CE.6070306@davea.name> <mailman.3203.1322756312.27778.python-list@python.org> <6366868.86.1322800180523.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pret21> <mailman.3216.1322802013.27778.python-list@python.org>
Subject	Re: order independent hash?
From	88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com>
Message-ID	<mailman.3218.1322804917.27778.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On Friday, December 2, 2011 1:00:10 PM UTC+8, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 3:29 PM, 88888 Dihedral
> <dihedr...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > I clear my point a hash is a collection of (key, value) pairs that have
> > well defined methods and behavior to be used in programming.
> >
> > The basic operations of a hash normally includes the following:
> >
> > 1. insertion of a (key, value) pair  into the hash
> > 2. deletion of a (key, value) from the hash
> > 3. inquiring  a hash by a key to retrieve the value if the (key, value)
> > pair available in the hash. If no key matched, the hash will return
> > a not found result.
> >
> > The hash can grow with (k,v) pairs accumulated in the run time.
> > An auto memory management mechanism is required for a hash of a non-fixed size of (k,v) pairs.
> 
> That's a hash table - think of a Python dictionary:
> 
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp....@pearwood.info> wrote:
> > Python dicts are hash tables.
> 
> Although strictly speaking, isn't that "Python dicts are implemented
> as hash tables in CPython"? Or is the hashtable implementation
> mandated? Anyway, near enough.
>

 
> Cryptography and data verification use hashing too (look at the
> various historic hashing algorithms - CRC, MD5, SHA, etc). The concept
> of a hash is a number (usually of a fixed size) that is calculated
> from a string or other large data type, such that hashing the same
> input will always give the same output, but hashing different input
> will usually give different output. It's then possible to identify a
> large object solely by its hash, as is done in git, for instance; or
> to transmit both the data and the hash, as is done in message
> protection schemes (many archiving programs/formats include a hash of
> the uncompressed data). These have nothing to do with (key,value)
> pairs, but are important uses of hashes.
> 
> ChrisA

If one tries to insert a (k,v1) and then a (k,v2) pair into a
hash with v1 not equals V2, what could happen in your understanding of
a hash?

A hash function is different from a hash or so called a hash table in
my post. 
 
If the hash collision rate is not specified, then  it is  trivial to write a hash function with the conditions you specified. A hash function applied to a set of data items only  is of very limited use at all.
 
A hash stores (k,v) pairs specified in the run time with auto memory
management build in is not a simple hash function to produce data signatures only clearly in my post.   

What I said a hash which is lifted as a basic type in python  is called a dictionary in python. 

It is called a map in c++'s generics library.

Thread

Re: order independent hash? Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2011-11-30 13:47 +0100
  Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-01 07:35 -0800
  Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-01 07:35 -0800
    Re: order independent hash? Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2011-12-01 10:52 -0500
      Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-01 08:17 -0800
      Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-01 08:17 -0800
    Re: order independent hash? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-02 03:18 +1100
      Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-01 20:29 -0800
        Re: order independent hash? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-02 16:00 +1100
          Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-01 21:48 -0800
            Re: order independent hash? Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2011-12-05 00:40 +1100
          Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-01 21:48 -0800
            Re: order independent hash? Roel Schroeven <rschroev_nospam_ml@fastmail.fm> - 2011-12-04 14:41 +0100
              Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-04 07:39 -0800
                Re: order independent hash? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-12-04 10:41 -0700
                Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-04 10:06 -0800
                Re: order independent hash? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-12-04 13:13 -0700
                Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-04 15:17 -0800
                Re: order independent hash? Matt Joiner <anacrolix@gmail.com> - 2011-12-05 10:21 +1100
                Re: order independent hash? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-12-04 16:24 -0700
                Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-04 16:52 -0800
                Re: order independent hash? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-05 02:00 +0000
                Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-04 16:52 -0800
                Re: order independent hash? Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2011-12-05 12:59 +1100
                Re: order independent hash? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-12-04 18:08 -0800
                Re: order independent hash? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-12-05 15:52 +1100
                Re: order independent hash? Matt Joiner <anacrolix@gmail.com> - 2011-12-05 14:02 +1100
                Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-06 21:24 -0800
                Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-06 21:24 -0800
                Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-04 15:17 -0800
                Re: order independent hash? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-12-04 19:28 -0500
                Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-04 10:06 -0800
          Re: order independent hash? Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@xemacs.org> - 2011-12-02 10:53 +0100
            Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-02 03:48 -0800
            Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-02 09:00 -0800
            Re: order independent hash? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-12-02 16:40 -0500
              Re: order independent hash? Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@xemacs.org> - 2011-12-04 14:55 +0100
                Re: order independent hash? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-05 01:08 +1100
                Re: order independent hash? Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@xemacs.org> - 2011-12-07 14:28 +0100
                Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-07 09:48 -0800
                Re: order independent hash? Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2011-12-04 12:57 -0600
                Re: order independent hash? Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@xemacs.org> - 2011-12-08 10:30 +0100
                Re: order independent hash? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-09 11:27 +0000
                Re: order independent hash? Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@xemacs.org> - 2011-12-09 17:51 +0100
                Re: order independent hash? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-10 04:13 +1100
                Re: order independent hash? Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2011-12-11 10:58 +1100
                Re: order independent hash? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-12-11 11:17 +1100
                Re: order independent hash? Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2011-12-11 14:04 +1100
        Re: order independent hash? Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2011-12-05 00:29 +1100
      Re: order independent hash? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2011-12-01 20:29 -0800
      Re: order independent hash? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-12-02 04:33 +0000

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