Re: Guido on python3 for beginners

From	Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Subject	Re: Guido on python3 for beginners
Date	2016-02-18 20:57 +1100
Message-ID	<mailman.241.1455789440.22075.python-list@python.org> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <31a618b2-a407-4723-9a4f-9b756fc93b0b@googlegroups.com> <0a920e92-5d31-4866-815b-cae7e201e4d8@googlegroups.com> <56c568f2$0$2832$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com> <CAPTjJmrF2=V0s=g5OzepLozhyS7KToqUiKK3A4FjzbnwuCwsnw@mail.gmail.com> <na4018$un9$1@ger.gmane.org>

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On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 7:40 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote:
> To my mind, the numerous duplications and overlaps in 2.7 that are gone in
> 3.x make 2.7 the worse version ever for beginners.

Hmm. I was teaching on 2.7 up until last year, and for the most part,
we taught a "compatible with Py3" subset of the language, without any
significant cost. If you'd shown code saying "except ValueError, e:"
to one of my Py2 students then, s/he would have been just as
unfamiliar as one of my Py3 students would be today. That said,
though, it's still that Py3 is no worse than Py2, and potentially
better.

The removal of L suffixes (and, similarly, the removal of u"..."
prefixes on text strings) is a bigger deal to newbies than it is to
experienced programmers, so that one definitely counts. "This is
great, but how can I remove that u from the strings?" was a common
question (eg when they're printing out a list of strings obtained from
a database, or decoded from JSON).

The removal of old-style classes is a definite improvement in Py3, as
is the no-arg form of super(), which I'd consider a related change. So
there's a bunch of tiny little "quality of life" improvements here.

ChrisA

Thread

[STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-02 19:26 -0800
  Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-02 22:02 -0800
    Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Bernardo Sulzbach <mafagafogigante@gmail.com> - 2016-02-03 04:07 -0200
    Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 12:54 -0800
      Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO INADA Naoki <songofacandy@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 12:02 +0900
        Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-02-07 16:59 +1100
          Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-02-06 23:04 -0800
            Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-06 23:31 -0800
              Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-02-06 23:51 -0800
                Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 18:58 +1100
                Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Jason Swails <jason.swails@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 10:20 -0500
            Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2016-02-07 08:44 +0100
      Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-07 14:06 +1100
      Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 08:40 -0700
      Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-02-08 10:44 -0500
        Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-02-09 01:15 -0800
      Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-09 02:46 +1100
      Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-02-08 10:53 -0500
      Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Chris Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2016-02-08 18:48 +0100
      Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-11 23:51 -0800
        Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 18:02 -0800
          Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-16 13:30 +1100
          Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-15 21:24 -0800
            Guido on python3 for beginners Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-17 00:51 -0800
              Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2016-02-18 17:47 +1100
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2016-02-18 17:57 +1100
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-02-17 22:59 -0800
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners "Sven R. Kunze" <srkunze@mail.de> - 2016-02-18 22:37 +0100
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-02-18 02:00 -0500
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 18:27 +1100
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-18 12:22 -0800
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners INADA Naoki <songofacandy@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 17:00 +0900
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-02-18 03:40 -0500
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-02-20 18:59 +1100
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 20:57 +1100
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Cem Karan <cfkaran2@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 05:57 -0500
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 22:07 +1100
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 04:25 -0800
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> - 2016-02-18 10:51 -0500
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-02-19 12:17 +1100
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 19:39 -0800
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2016-02-20 13:36 +1100
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-20 00:37 -0800
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-02-19 15:06 +0000
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 19:32 -0800
                Re: Guido on python3 for beginners Matt Wheeler <m@funkyhat.org> - 2016-02-18 16:44 +0000
            Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-02-17 08:39 -0800
          Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2016-02-18 22:14 +0100
            Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-02-19 08:54 +1100
          Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 21:07 -0700
            Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-02-19 02:18 -0800
  Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Wolfgang Maier <wolfgang.maier@biologie.uni-freiburg.de> - 2016-02-03 09:27 +0100
  Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Grobu <snailcoder@retrosite.invalid> - 2016-02-03 09:38 +0100
    Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2016-02-03 09:16 -0800
  Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Quivis <quivis@domain.invalid> - 2016-02-06 14:59 +0000
  Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2016-02-18 18:22 -0800
    Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.co.uk> - 2016-02-19 10:05 +0000
  Re: [STORY-TIME] THE BDFL AND HIS PYTHON PETTING ZOO Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2016-02-19 23:15 -0500

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