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Re: How much gravity is too much gravity?

From	whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: How much gravity is too much gravity?
Date	2022-11-20 00:08 -0600
Message-ID	<jttujcF3763U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<f66ab8ff-5878-4d2b-b4a1-739727f94457n@googlegroups.com> <tlcakt$3er9i$1@dont-email.me> <334e8181-3a6a-4b38-a538-d1d2a561f76bn@googlegroups.com> <6cb51346-6edc-4418-a269-b5601869c466n@googlegroups.com>

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On 11/19/2022 10:50 PM, patdolan wrote:
> On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 8:42:31 PM UTC-8, patdolan wrote:
>> On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 8:32:32 PM UTC-8, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>> On 11/19/2022 3:10 PM, patdolan wrote:
>>>> We know from no less a personage than H. Antoon Lorentz that SR is valid in all accelerated frames except for those frames where the acceleration is caused by mass and/or energy:
>>>>
>>>> "SR as the theory of flat Minkowski spacetime remains valid in the presence of accelerations, because general relativity (GR) is only required when there is curvature of spacetime caused by the energy–momentum tensor (which is mainly determined by mass). However, since the amount of spacetime curvature is not particularly high on Earth or its vicinity, SR remains valid for most practical purposes, such as experiments in particle accelerators.[1]"
>>>>
>>>> That particle accelerators and cosmic muons exhibit near-SR values in the solar system's frame, any experimentalist will testify to on the grave of his mother. But wait! In some cases the spacetime curvature in the vicinity of the solar system turns out to be SR-destroying, as in the case of Dolan's Dilemma:
>>>>
>>>> https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/580388/does-keplers-3rd-law-of-planetary-motion-violate-the-first-postulate
>>>>
>>>> Which was meticulously verified by Professor Paul B. Andersen:
>>>>
>>>> https://paulba.no/pdf/Dolan.pdf
>>>>
>>>> So how much gravity is too much gravity for SR? And what does SR failure in the face of gravity look like? Can anyone provide side by calculations with error analysis?
>>>>
>>> Falling into a black hole... When an observer sees you finally freeze in
>>> a frame, and you see the observer speed up infinitely fast to the point
>>> where you can see stars wizz by and the universe expire... So to speak.
>>> Fair enough?

>> You will have to elaborate, Chris. I'm not getting the point you are trying to make. What point do you believe I am trying to make?

> The point I have successfully made in my eponymous dilemma is that both spacetime curvature and special relativity cannot be true at the same time unless spacetime curvature diminishes as 1/gamma.  Grizzled Relativists like rotchm and Stan Fultoni and Sylvia and Tom Roberts and Paul B. Andersen and Python and Prokary and Jan and Dono and Bodkin (God rest his soul?) and Moroney and Dirk...am I leaving anyone out?...realize this is catastrophic to the Relativist world view.

Relax. In fact, pour yourself a drink of whatever you think is relaxing,
sit back and let your dilemma flow away.

The first thing that becomes clear to anyone studying science is that we
don't deal directly with the realities, at best we only deal with
segmented models that have limits on their validity. I don't know how
many times I've urged readers NOT to confuse models with nature.

And here it is again.

Thread

How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-19 15:10 -0800
  Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2022-11-19 15:55 -0800
    Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-19 18:11 -0800
      Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2022-11-19 19:10 -0800
        Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-19 19:47 -0800
          Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-19 20:01 -0800
          Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2022-11-19 20:09 -0800
            Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-19 20:17 -0800
              Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2022-11-19 20:34 -0800
          Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-11-20 15:33 -0500
            Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-11-20 22:10 -0800
      Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-11-20 14:14 +0100
        Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-20 08:02 -0800
          Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-11-20 08:14 -0800
            Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-20 08:19 -0800
              Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-20 08:23 -0800
                Imbecile Pat Dolan perseveres "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-11-20 10:41 -0800
          Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-11-20 22:36 +0100
            Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-20 15:36 -0800
              Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-11-21 13:28 +0100
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-21 06:44 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2022-11-21 10:37 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-11-21 19:44 +0100
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-21 11:32 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-11-21 22:47 +0100
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-21 14:23 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-21 14:24 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-11-22 13:21 +0100
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-22 10:06 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-11-22 19:55 +0100
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-22 11:20 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-11-22 19:14 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-23 00:04 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-11-22 19:57 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-23 00:08 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-11-23 12:05 +0100
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-11-23 03:26 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-11-23 14:50 +0100
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-11-23 06:57 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-11-23 12:24 -0500
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-11-23 09:36 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-11-23 14:20 +0100
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-23 10:09 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-11-24 20:36 +0100
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-24 14:27 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-11-25 12:27 +0100
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-25 07:23 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-11-26 10:42 +0100
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-26 07:59 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-11-26 22:42 +0100
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-26 20:24 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-11-27 13:14 +0100
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-11-27 13:27 +0100
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-11-27 04:36 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-27 09:28 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-11-27 12:16 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-11-28 14:38 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2022-11-28 15:02 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-11-28 16:35 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2022-11-28 16:50 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-11-28 19:54 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-11-30 11:59 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-12-03 10:38 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Bobby Spanò <byy@bybpbayo.ay> - 2022-11-29 18:07 +0000
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Bobby Spanò <byy@bybpbayo.ay> - 2022-11-29 18:12 +0000
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-11-28 12:53 +0100
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-28 10:43 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-29 10:22 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-11-29 11:33 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2022-11-25 12:45 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-25 13:24 -0800
                Cretin Pat Dolan admits he's a clown "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-11-22 07:22 -0800
  Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-11-19 18:18 -0800
    Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-11-19 23:22 -0800
  Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-11-19 20:32 -0800
    Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-19 20:42 -0800
      Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-19 20:50 -0800
        Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-11-20 00:08 -0600
          Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-11-19 23:23 -0800
  Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-11-20 14:08 +0100
  Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2022-11-20 12:20 -0800
  Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2022-11-23 10:42 -0800
    Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-11-23 12:19 -0800
      Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-23 12:41 -0800
        Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2022-11-23 13:07 -0800
          Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-23 13:33 -0800
            Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-11-23 14:12 -0800
              Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-11-23 17:20 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-11-23 18:43 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-11-24 14:47 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-11-25 20:03 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-11-26 11:57 -0800
                Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-11-28 14:01 -0800
      Re: How much gravity is too much gravity? "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2022-11-23 12:59 -0800

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