Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #589349

Re: correct transversal Doppler shift

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: correct transversal Doppler shift
Date	2022-08-06 10:35 +0200
Message-ID	<jl6nf0F5qbpU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <tcdbt9$246le$1@dont-email.me> <jl15lhF94g4U1@mid.individual.net> <57322a9c-34d0-4983-989e-f9c94d1b73f8n@googlegroups.com> <jl3mudFlinrU1@mid.individual.net> <d51ebe25-cf0f-47fe-978f-d900dab70ee4n@googlegroups.com>

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Am 05.08.2022 um 12:29 schrieb Prokaryotic Capase Homolog:
> On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 12:08:33 AM UTC-5, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am 04.08.2022 um 09:05 schrieb Prokaryotic Capase Homolog:
>>>
>>> 1) Let us take a race car "r" traveling at Mach 0.2.
>>> 2) You, the observer "o", are standing one mile from the road.
>> No, I'm sitting twenty meters away from the track.
>>> 3) Sound travels 5 sec from the road to your ears at its closest point.
>>> 4) As the car crosses your path, you do not hear sound from where
>>> the car is NOW, but from where it was about 5 seconds ago "e".
>> I'm not a bat and cannot see by the ears.
>> Actually I see light and use my eyes for that purpose.
>
> You do not hear with your ears. Stay on topic.

I have always thought, that my ears are used for this purpose.


>
>> The delay for the finite speed of light needed to be considered, even if
>> very small.
>
> For sonic transverse Doppler shift, it makes hardly any difference.
>
> For optical transverse Doppler shift, it is a different story.

Why?

Fast signals are also signals with finite speed.

It is this finite speed, what causes the Doppler effect and not the 
nature of the waves.

So, why make a distinction between light and sound?


>> But in this example it is totally irelevant, because the track does not
>> move and determins, where the race-car can go.
>>> 5) The sound that you hear from "e" is Doppler shifted to a higher tone.
>>>
>>> -------e--r----------
>>> ----------|----------
>>> ----------|----------
>>> ----------|----------
>>> ----------|----------
>>> ----------|----------
>>> ----------o----------
>
> In summary, whether the race car is *geometrically* at its
> closest point, or one *sees* the race car at its closest
> point, the overall effect is the same: One hears the sound
> of the race car Doppler-shifted to higher notes.
>
>>> Let us try two more scenarios:
>>> 1) You are standing at the center of a circular track and a race car
>>> is driving around you at high speed. Is the sound that you hear
>>> Doppler shifted and if so, is it to a higher or lower tone?
>> I would prefer a linear track.
>>
>> The tone is higher on the side of the approach und lower on the receding
>> side, where the car drives away.
>
> CIRCULAR track!!! At no point does the race car have any
> longitudinal motion with respect to you at the center.
> At race car speeds, one measures no significant sonic
> Doppler shift.


Sure, circular track are a possibility.

But the SRT setting does not contain anything similar to a circular race 
track, but is restricted to streight lateral motion.

So, a simple street would be a better analog than a circular track.

>>> 2) You are driving a race car around a circular track with a loudspeaker
>>> at the center. Is the sound that you hear Doppler shifted and if so,
>>> is it to a higher or lower tone?
>> No, I would always hear the same frequency, because the distance is the
>> important part and does not change in this example, if the speeds are
>> moderatly low.
>
> Finally, you get one correct. At ordinary race car speeds,
> one measures no significant sonic Doppler shift in this
> scenario.


No!

SONIC Doppler frequency shift is, of course, omnipresent in motor-sports.
...


TH

Thread

correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-09 04:47 -0700
  Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-07-10 09:05 +0200
    Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-07-11 09:21 +0200
      Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-08-02 08:52 +0200
        Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-08-02 00:29 -0700
          Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-08-03 09:08 +0200
            Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-08-03 04:33 -0400
              Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-08-04 08:01 +0200
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-08-04 00:05 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-08-04 00:11 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-08-04 07:37 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-08-04 08:04 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-08-04 15:16 +0000
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-08-04 08:21 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-08-04 15:27 +0000
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-08-04 08:59 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-08-04 09:12 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-08-05 07:08 +0200
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-08-05 03:29 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-08-06 10:35 +0200
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-08-06 02:03 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-08-06 02:26 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-08-06 06:06 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-08-07 07:18 +0200
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-08-07 03:27 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-08-08 08:45 +0200
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2022-08-08 08:51 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Diego Traversa <toed@iavdattg.ev> - 2022-08-08 22:35 +0000
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2022-08-08 21:01 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-08-05 03:33 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2022-08-05 21:10 -0700
            Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-08-03 09:59 -0700
            Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-08-03 10:12 -0700
  Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-10 06:43 -0700
    Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-07-10 16:34 +0000
  Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2022-07-13 11:02 -0500
    Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-13 09:28 -0700
      Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-13 09:36 -0700
      Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-07-13 18:55 +0000
      Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2022-07-18 20:55 -0500
        Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-19 08:13 -0700
          Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2022-07-20 11:28 -0500
            Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-20 12:03 -0700
            Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-20 13:04 -0700
              Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2022-07-21 21:19 -0500
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-22 07:28 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2022-07-22 12:11 -0500
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-07-22 17:19 +0000
          Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-07-22 22:44 +0000
            Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-23 04:46 -0700
              Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-23 04:59 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-07-23 14:34 +0000
              Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-07-23 12:20 +0000
      Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-07-29 21:27 -0700
        Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-07-29 21:59 -0700
        Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-07-30 11:26 +0000
        Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-30 05:34 -0700
    Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-07-13 18:51 +0000
      Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2022-07-20 12:12 -0500
  Re: correct transversal Doppler shift "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2022-08-04 16:06 -0700
    Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Duan Bonomo <ddfs@dtszpmat.zy> - 2022-08-06 16:15 +0000
      Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-08-06 11:25 -0700
        Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-08-07 07:25 +0200
  Re: correct transversal Doppler shift "erkd...@gmail.com" <erkdemon@gmail.com> - 2022-08-06 22:11 -0700

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