Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #589148

Re: correct transversal Doppler shift

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: correct transversal Doppler shift
Date	2022-08-03 09:08 +0200
Message-ID	<jkul6iFoaduU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<9c63a3d5-022e-430d-a2a6-0fdb6717abd9n@googlegroups.com> <jivc23Fcgt0U1@mid.individual.net> <jj21bfFphv3U1@mid.individual.net> <jkrvu9Fb9gdU1@mid.individual.net> <d9a5f51d-e0ce-409a-a793-804b6aec983cn@googlegroups.com>

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Am 02.08.2022 um 09:29 schrieb Prokaryotic Capase Homolog:
> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 1:53:01 AM UTC-5, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> If you imagine the sound of a race car passing by on a track, you would
>> hear a certain distzinctive frequency change.
>>
>> It goes like
>> iiiieeoouuuuhh
>>
>> (something like that....)
>>
>> The 'blue-shift' side is, where the car approaches and the 'red-shift'
>> occurs, where the car recedes.
>>
>> But the 'transver case' is apparently coming with a zero frequency
>> shift, because that is the point, where frequency shift turns from red-
>> to blue-shift.
>>
>> The mid-point must be obviously zero-shift.
>
> Sloppy thinking, as usual. What is the "mid-point"?

The meant 'mid-point' in a function graph is an extreme point, where the 
tangent is horizontal.

Now we take the change-of-frequency-function of the received sound of 
the race car as function value and plot it on the y_axis. The distance 
is plotted on the x-axis and the car paces from left to right.

The mid point is now the point, where that path of the car is 
perpendicular to my line of sight upon the race track.

At this point the car moves perpendicular to my distance to the path, 
what is called 'transversal movement'.

Now we know from experience, that the Doppler effect at this point is 
zero, because the  'change-of-frequency-function' is switching there 
from positive to negative.

> What is the red/blue Doppler shift of the race car when it is
> GEOMETRICALLY the nearest to you, the spectator?

Zero

It must be zero, because at this point the car changes from approaching 
to receding.

This is also a change from blue- to red-shift, or, if you prefer that, 
from higher tone to lower tone.

> What is the red/blue Doppler shift of the race car when you SEE it at
> its closest point?

I would suggest to stick to sound. Light is also effected by the Doppler 
effect, but it takes other means than ears to measure that.

> Now apply this to a spaceship traveling at a large fraction of the speed
> of light.

Spaceships cannot do this, because velocity requires a point of 
reference, against which velocity is measured (assumed that space is 
devoid of usable reference points).

TH

Thread

correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-09 04:47 -0700
  Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-07-10 09:05 +0200
    Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-07-11 09:21 +0200
      Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-08-02 08:52 +0200
        Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-08-02 00:29 -0700
          Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-08-03 09:08 +0200
            Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-08-03 04:33 -0400
              Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-08-04 08:01 +0200
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-08-04 00:05 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-08-04 00:11 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-08-04 07:37 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-08-04 08:04 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-08-04 15:16 +0000
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-08-04 08:21 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-08-04 15:27 +0000
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-08-04 08:59 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-08-04 09:12 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-08-05 07:08 +0200
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-08-05 03:29 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-08-06 10:35 +0200
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-08-06 02:03 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-08-06 02:26 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-08-06 06:06 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-08-07 07:18 +0200
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-08-07 03:27 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-08-08 08:45 +0200
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2022-08-08 08:51 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Diego Traversa <toed@iavdattg.ev> - 2022-08-08 22:35 +0000
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2022-08-08 21:01 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-08-05 03:33 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2022-08-05 21:10 -0700
            Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-08-03 09:59 -0700
            Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-08-03 10:12 -0700
  Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-10 06:43 -0700
    Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-07-10 16:34 +0000
  Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2022-07-13 11:02 -0500
    Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-13 09:28 -0700
      Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-13 09:36 -0700
      Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-07-13 18:55 +0000
      Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2022-07-18 20:55 -0500
        Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-19 08:13 -0700
          Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2022-07-20 11:28 -0500
            Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-20 12:03 -0700
            Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-20 13:04 -0700
              Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2022-07-21 21:19 -0500
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-22 07:28 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2022-07-22 12:11 -0500
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-07-22 17:19 +0000
          Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-07-22 22:44 +0000
            Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-23 04:46 -0700
              Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-23 04:59 -0700
                Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-07-23 14:34 +0000
              Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-07-23 12:20 +0000
      Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-07-29 21:27 -0700
        Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-07-29 21:59 -0700
        Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-07-30 11:26 +0000
        Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-07-30 05:34 -0700
    Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-07-13 18:51 +0000
      Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2022-07-20 12:12 -0500
  Re: correct transversal Doppler shift "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2022-08-04 16:06 -0700
    Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Duan Bonomo <ddfs@dtszpmat.zy> - 2022-08-06 16:15 +0000
      Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Alsor <alsorgzl@gmail.com> - 2022-08-06 11:25 -0700
        Re: correct transversal Doppler shift Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-08-07 07:25 +0200
  Re: correct transversal Doppler shift "erkd...@gmail.com" <erkdemon@gmail.com> - 2022-08-06 22:11 -0700

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