Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index

From	blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index
Date	2013-08-17 20:43 +0000
Organization	None
Message-ID	<b7a5jvFcaq7U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<kugb9m$ups$1@dont-email.me> <kugea5$h9o$1@dont-email.me> <kugiin$rjv$1@speranza.aioe.org> <slrnl0nodm.2m9.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid>

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In article <slrnl0nodm.2m9.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid>,
Jorgen Grahn  <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-08-14, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
> > Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> wrote:
> >
> > (snip, I wrote)
> >
> >>> It always seemed to me that Java was more C-like than C++,
> >>> so why not add Java and C?
> >
> >>> Just because they have the letter C in the name doesn't
> >>> make them similar. Might as well ad COBOL, too.
> >  
> >> To me, C++ and Objective C are extensions of C.  
> >> Java is a do-over of C.
> >
> > I suppose, but it always seemed to met that C++ tried to be
> > a little more different than was needed. Well, partly that is
> > because I never liked the C++ << and >> I/O operators.
> >
> > Java tried for a reasonable balance, but also not to alienate
> > C programmers. 
> 
> Are you seriously suggesting that C programmers would feel more at
> home in Java than in C++, because Java doesn't overload the <<
> operator?
> 
> Java:
> - everything is a reference

Not everything.  There are the "primitive" types.

> - pointers don't exist (except as NullPointerExceptions)

Not in the C sense, but what do you think references are?  

> - there are no functions, only classes with methods

Yes.  (And sometimes that's somewhat annoying.)

> - your usual OS APIs and libraries don't exist; use the-framework-
>   of-the-month instead!

It's true (AFAIK) that Java doesn't provide direct/easy access to
non-Java libraries.  But it has a very very large collection of
semi-standard library classes that seem to me to provide all the
tools one would need to build many applications.  It's not the right
language for writing, oh, device drivers maybe, but for application
development, it seems to me to be pretty good.

As for "framework of the month", I don't know, maybe that *is* what
many Java programmers use.  But I don't think one has to.

> C++:
> - don't use void*, and your C programs will pretty much
>   work as before
> 
> (Yes, I'm biased.)

Indeed.  :-)  (I am too, as is probably clear.  For what it's worth,
I do think that schools that teach nothing but Java are doing their
students a disservice.  But I also think it's kind of a nice language
for writing applications.)

-- 
B. L. Massingill
ObDisclaimer:  I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.

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Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2013-08-14 11:29 -0500
  Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-14 11:49 -0500
    Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2013-08-14 12:05 -0500
      Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2013-08-14 13:37 -0400
        Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-08-14 18:26 +0000
          Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2013-08-14 15:13 -0400
            Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2013-08-14 13:02 -0700
        Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2013-08-14 15:30 -0500
      Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-14 12:56 -0500
    Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-08-15 17:02 +0300
      Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2013-08-15 19:32 +0000
  Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2013-08-14 16:55 +0000
  Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-08-14 17:16 +0000
    Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2013-08-14 12:20 -0500
      Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-08-14 18:33 +0000
        Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2013-08-14 19:59 +0000
          Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2013-08-17 20:43 +0000
            Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2013-08-18 09:33 +0000
              Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2013-08-18 21:16 +0000
    Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2013-08-14 20:06 +0000
  Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.invalid> - 2013-08-14 19:35 +0200
    Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2013-08-14 15:34 -0500
  Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2013-08-14 13:42 -0400
  Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2013-08-14 10:54 -0700
    Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2013-08-14 15:38 -0500
  Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2013-08-15 05:45 +0100
  Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2013-08-15 14:56 -0500
    Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2013-08-15 20:29 +0000
      Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2013-08-15 13:42 -0700
      Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2013-08-15 20:05 -0500
        Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-08-16 02:17 +0000
          Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2013-08-16 00:15 -0500
            Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2013-08-16 19:48 +1200
              Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2013-08-16 11:55 -0500
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2013-08-17 20:48 +0000
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-18 22:32 -0500
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2013-08-19 15:40 +1200
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2013-08-19 11:45 -0500
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-19 12:56 -0500
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2013-08-19 14:16 -0500
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-19 16:43 -0500
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2013-08-20 11:12 -0500
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-08-22 16:12 +0300
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-08-20 11:49 +0300
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-20 04:52 -0500
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-08-22 14:46 +0300
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2013-08-22 11:02 -0500
                [OT] Javascript performance (was: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index) Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2013-08-20 11:47 +0200
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2013-08-19 13:50 -0700
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2013-08-19 17:11 -0400
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-08-20 12:05 +0300
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-08-19 22:06 +0000
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2013-08-20 11:56 +0200
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2013-08-21 03:41 -0700
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2013-08-19 02:05 -0700
                Re: [OT] Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2013-08-19 21:10 +1200
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2013-08-19 08:24 -0700
                Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2013-08-19 11:47 -0500
        Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2013-08-16 07:00 -0400
          Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2013-08-16 04:07 -0700
            Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2013-08-16 08:07 -0400
              Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2013-08-16 16:44 +0000
              Re: Java tops C as most popular language in developer index Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2013-08-16 11:51 -0500

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