Re: widening multiplication

From	Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: widening multiplication
Date	2020-08-22 21:45 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<87k0xq4dfu.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References	(16 earlier) <6bd1b70e-e118-4570-91dd-01cbceb8fb15n@googlegroups.com> <87k0xs6zy7.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <f8ac5eff-a68f-498d-a983-992c880f201fn@googlegroups.com> <87zh6n5yzj.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <337b817e-fc23-430b-9ba2-cb107dcf934cn@googlegroups.com>

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Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:

> On Saturday, 22 August 2020 at 01:02:54 UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.ar...@gmail.com> writes: 
>> 
>> > The line 
>> > 
>> > index = y * width + x 
>> > 
>> > could appear in almost any procedural programming language with 
>> > essentially the same meaning.
>> But you then go on to list lots of different meanings. You may be using 
>> "essentially the same" in such an abstract way that it's not helpful 
>> anymore.
>>
> It means convert a 2d space to a 1d space, using y as the major axis.
> Any programmer will be in his comfort zone here. He knows that "*"
> means "multiply". He will also be familar with the conventional names.
>
> In some languages, x and y might not be scalars and "*" might be overloaded
> to mean a matrix multiply, but that's ruled out (assuming everything has been
> set up correctly) by context.
>
> What you are saying is that in C it has a different "meaning" than in Python
> when the variables overflow. In C it "means"  "take (y * width + x)  and assign
> to index, unless the result is greater than INT_MAX, it which case do anything
> you want". You can quibble about how to use the word "mean". I'd say it
> "behaves" like that, not that it "means" that. "Meaning" is to with intention,
> "behaviour" is how a physical construct responds to a stimulus.

That screeching sound is your dragging the goalposts onto the tennis
court.  Now, you want "meaning" to be no more than "intent" not
behaviour, but the point you are defending is a clear claim about the
mechanics:

  "Most programming languages work in more or less the same way..."

Work.  Not the intention they suggest or hint at, but how they work.  I
don't think it is possible, at least for me, to have an orderly
technical discussion with you.

(But thank you for writing "his", "he" and "he".  It's always good to
know where people stand.)

-- 
Ben.

Thread

widening multiplication jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2020-08-17 22:11 +0200
  Re: widening multiplication Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2020-08-17 16:30 -0400
    Re: widening multiplication jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2020-08-18 09:27 +0200
  Re: widening multiplication Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2020-08-17 13:33 -0700
    Re: widening multiplication jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2020-08-18 09:24 +0200
    Re: widening multiplication Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2020-08-21 14:47 -0700
  Re: widening multiplication Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-17 21:52 +0100
    Re: widening multiplication jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2020-08-18 09:22 +0200
  Re: widening multiplication Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-17 14:10 -0700
    Re: widening multiplication Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-08-17 22:33 +0100
      Re: widening multiplication Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-17 15:13 -0700
      Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-18 11:33 +0200
    Re: widening multiplication jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2020-08-18 09:20 +0200
  Re: widening multiplication scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-17 21:38 +0000
    Re: widening multiplication jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2020-08-18 09:19 +0200
  Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-18 11:31 +0200
    Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-18 05:00 -0700
      Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-18 15:10 +0200
    Re: widening multiplication Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-18 12:31 +0000
      Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-18 15:15 +0200
        Re: widening multiplication Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-18 06:53 -0700
          Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-18 16:14 +0200
            Re: widening multiplication Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-18 07:24 -0700
              Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-18 22:41 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-18 14:24 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-08-18 22:54 +0100
                Re: widening multiplication Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-18 15:18 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-18 15:54 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-18 15:38 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-19 07:03 +0000
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-19 09:24 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-19 02:13 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-19 10:43 +0000
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-19 12:50 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-19 07:30 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-19 07:44 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-19 17:35 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-19 10:13 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-19 14:30 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-19 15:07 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-19 22:13 +0000
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-19 15:49 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-20 11:31 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 03:47 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-20 13:21 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-20 08:20 -0400
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-21 09:51 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-21 02:51 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-21 11:44 +0100
                Re: widening multiplication Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-08-21 12:17 +0100
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-21 13:36 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-08-21 13:15 +0100
                Re: widening multiplication Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-21 11:04 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-21 08:30 -0400
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-21 13:32 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-21 12:46 +0100
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-21 07:43 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-08-21 16:13 +0100
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-21 20:15 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-21 20:14 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-21 16:37 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-22 15:38 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-22 01:02 +0100
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-22 04:57 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-22 16:11 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-22 08:46 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-22 18:33 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-22 13:44 -0400
                Re: widening multiplication Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-22 12:48 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-22 21:45 +0100
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-22 05:20 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-22 10:16 -0400
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-22 08:59 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-22 19:04 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-22 13:59 -0400
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-22 23:01 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-08-23 07:42 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-22 22:12 +0100
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-23 13:31 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-23 04:53 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-23 14:22 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-23 06:47 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-23 16:25 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-23 07:42 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-24 09:10 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 02:06 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-23 13:10 -0400
                Re: widening multiplication Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-23 16:16 +0100
                Re: widening multiplication Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-22 22:02 +0100
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-22 18:14 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-23 14:27 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-21 05:58 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-19 19:15 -0400
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-19 16:48 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-08-19 23:39 +0100
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-19 15:51 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-19 15:56 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-19 16:04 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-19 18:04 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2020-08-20 00:13 +0000
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-20 10:06 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> - 2020-08-20 11:26 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-20 13:25 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-19 07:41 -0400
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-19 15:08 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-19 10:29 -0400
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-19 17:41 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-19 13:34 -0400
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-19 20:21 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-18 15:16 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-19 09:32 +0200
        Re: widening multiplication James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-18 11:11 -0400
          Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-18 22:45 +0200
  Re: widening multiplication Daniel Hyde <Daniel.Hyde71@gmail.com> - 2020-08-19 20:17 +0200
    Re: widening multiplication James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-19 15:20 -0400
      Re: widening multiplication Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-19 20:59 +0000
        Re: widening multiplication James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-19 17:28 -0400
          Re: widening multiplication Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-08-19 22:43 +0100
    Re: widening multiplication Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2020-08-19 21:38 +0200
      Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-19 21:47 +0200
      Re: widening multiplication Daniel Hyde <Daniel.Hyde71@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 12:24 +0200
        Re: widening multiplication James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-20 08:14 -0400
          Re: widening multiplication Daniel Hyde <Daniel.Hyde71@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 14:20 +0200
            Re: widening multiplication Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-20 10:39 -0700
    Re: widening multiplication Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-19 15:55 -0400
      Re: widening multiplication Daniel Hyde <Daniel.Hyde71@gmail.com> - 2020-08-22 12:30 +0200
        Re: widening multiplication James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-22 05:09 -0700
          Re: widening multiplication Daniel Hyde <Daniel.Hyde71@gmail.com> - 2020-08-22 17:15 +0200
            Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-22 19:06 +0200
              Re: widening multiplication Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2020-08-22 19:06 +0100
                Re: widening multiplication Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-08-22 20:28 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-08-23 01:36 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-08-22 18:15 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-08-23 11:16 +0200
                Re: widening multiplication "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-08-23 21:05 -0700
              Re: widening multiplication Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-22 12:45 -0700
            Re: widening multiplication James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-22 11:47 -0700
        Re: widening multiplication Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-22 10:21 -0400
          Re: widening multiplication Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-08-22 16:18 +0100
            Re: widening multiplication David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-22 19:16 +0200
        Re: widening multiplication Kaz Kylheku <793-849-0957@kylheku.com> - 2020-08-23 04:38 +0000
          Re: widening multiplication James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-23 08:22 -0400
            Re: widening multiplication Kaz Kylheku <793-849-0957@kylheku.com> - 2020-08-24 03:00 +0000
              Re: widening multiplication James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-23 23:54 -0400
                Re: widening multiplication Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-24 06:19 +0000
                Re: widening multiplication James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-24 09:45 -0400
                Re: widening multiplication Kaz Kylheku <793-849-0957@kylheku.com> - 2020-08-24 14:47 +0000
                Re: widening multiplication "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 12:14 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 08:40 -0700
                Re: widening multiplication Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-26 18:06 +0000
          Re: widening multiplication Daniel Hyde <Daniel.Hyde71@gmail.com> - 2020-08-23 17:55 +0200
            Re: widening multiplication Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-08-23 17:38 +0100
    Re: widening multiplication Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-19 13:15 -0700
  Re: widening multiplication rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com - 2020-08-23 08:03 -0700

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