Re: filling area by color atack safety

From	Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: filling area by color atack safety
Date	2024-03-17 11:25 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<87frwpje2b.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References	<ut3669$21eur$1@i2pn2.org> <ut4020$2s8ov$1@dont-email.me> <87wmq2jn7s.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <ut4ba7$2uits$1@dont-email.me>

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Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:

> On 16/03/2024 13:55, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>> 
>>> Recursion make programs harder to reason about and prove correct.
>> Are you prepared to offer any evidence to support this astonishing
>> statement or can we just assume it's another Malcolmism?
>
> Example given. A recursive algorithm which is hard to reason about and
> prove correct, because we don't really know whether under perfectly
> reasonable assumptions it will or will not blow the stack.

Had you offered a proof that your code neither "blows the stack" nor
runs out of any other resource we'd have a starting point for
comparison, but you have not done that.

Mind you, had you done that, we would have something that might
eventually become only one piece of evidence for what is an
astonishingly general remark.  Broadly applicable remarks require either
broadly applicable evidence or a wealth of distinct cases.

Your "rule" suggests that all reasoning is impeded by the presence of
recursion and I don't think you can support that claim.  This is
characteristic of many of your remarks -- they are general "rules" that
often remain rules even when there is evidence to the contrary.

I'll make another point in the hope of clarifying the matter.  An
algorithm or code is usually proved correct (or not!) under the
assumption that it has adequate resources -- usually time and storage.
Further reasoning may then be done to determine the resource
requirements since this is so often dependent on context.  This
separation is helpful as you don't usually want to tie "correctness" to
some specific installation.  The code might run on a system with a
dynamically allocated stack, for example, that has very similar
limitations to "heap" memory.

To put is more generally, we often want to prove properties of code that
are independent of physical constraints.  Your remark includes this kind
reasoning.  Did you intend it to?

-- 
Ben.

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filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-16 05:11 +0100
  Re: filling area by color atack safety Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-16 11:33 +0000
    Re: filling area by color atack safety Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-03-16 13:55 +0000
      Re: filling area by color atack safety bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-16 14:41 +0000
        Re: filling area by color atack safety Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-03-17 10:42 +0000
        Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-18 03:00 -0700
          Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-18 14:23 +0200
            Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-18 14:13 -0700
            Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-19 16:05 +0100
              Re: filling area by color atack safety bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-19 17:16 +0000
                Re: filling area by color atack safety bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-19 17:33 +0000
                Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-19 23:07 +0100
                Re: filling area by color atack safety David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-20 09:29 +0100
        Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-18 03:04 -0700
      Re: filling area by color atack safety Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-16 14:45 +0000
        Re: filling area by color atack safety scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-16 18:21 +0000
          Re: filling area by color atack safety Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-16 20:02 +0000
            Re: filling area by color atack safety "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-16 13:29 -0700
              Re: filling area by color atack safety "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-17 13:19 -0700
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-18 14:40 +0200
            Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-19 23:23 +0100
          Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-17 15:32 +0200
        Re: filling area by color atack safety Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-03-17 11:25 +0000
          Re: filling area by color atack safety Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-17 12:37 +0000
            Re: filling area by color atack safety Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-03-17 17:11 +0000
            Re: filling area by color atack safety Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-03-23 00:21 +0000
            Re: filling area by color atack safety scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-23 14:43 +0000
              Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-23 11:48 -0700
                Re: filling area by color atack safety scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-24 20:48 +0000
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-28 22:51 -0700
    Re: filling area by color atack safety David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-16 15:40 +0100
      Re: filling area by color atack safety Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-16 15:09 +0000
        Re: filling area by color atack safety Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-17 14:56 +0000
          Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-17 17:42 +0200
          Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-17 18:25 +0200
            Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-17 19:39 +0200
              Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-18 11:36 -0700
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-18 18:51 +0000
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-18 23:10 -0700
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-19 12:06 +0000
            Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-20 00:03 +0100
              Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-20 01:17 +0200
                Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-20 00:30 +0100
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-20 12:06 +0200
                Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-20 13:44 +0100
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-20 15:44 +0200
                Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-20 15:17 +0100
          Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-20 02:15 +0100
        Re: filling area by color atack safety David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-17 17:45 +0100
          Re: filling area by color atack safety Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-17 18:28 +0000
            Re: filling area by color atack safety David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-18 07:58 +0100
              Re: filling area by color atack safety Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-18 09:26 +0000
                Re: filling area by color atack safety David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-18 17:28 +0100
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-18 17:25 +0000
                Re: filling area by color atack safety scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-18 17:42 +0000
                Re: filling area by color atack safety bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-18 18:50 +0000
                Re: filling area by color atack safety David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-19 11:41 +0100
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-03-19 12:19 +0000
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-18 11:10 -0700
                Keith-world (Was: filling area by color atack safety) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-03-18 22:42 +0000
                Re: filling area by color atack safety David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-19 12:31 +0100
                Re: filling area by color atack safety "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-18 16:18 -0700
                Re: filling area by color atack safety David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-19 11:32 +0100
      Re: filling area by color atack safety scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-03-16 18:25 +0000
        Re: filling area by color atack safety Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-03-17 10:31 +0000
          Re: filling area by color atack safety Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-17 12:28 +0000
            Re: filling area by color atack safety bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-17 12:49 +0000
          Re: filling area by color atack safety David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-17 17:59 +0100
      Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-19 23:52 +0100
        Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-20 01:36 +0100
    Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-17 14:46 +0200
      Re: filling area by color atack safety bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-17 12:54 +0000
        Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-17 15:15 +0200
          Re: filling area by color atack safety bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-17 13:23 +0000
            Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-17 15:37 +0200
              Re: filling area by color atack safety David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-03-17 18:05 +0100
            Re: filling area by color atack safety Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-03-17 14:10 +0000
              Re: filling area by color atack safety Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2024-03-17 16:58 +0000
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-03-17 22:14 +0000
                Re: filling area by color atack safety bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-17 22:21 +0000
      Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-18 02:30 -0700
        Re: filling area by color atack safety Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-18 11:08 +0000
          Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-18 22:54 -0700
            Re: filling area by color atack safety Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-19 11:41 +0000
              Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-19 21:19 -0700
      Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-20 01:13 +0100
        Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-20 10:41 +0200
          Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-20 15:20 +0100
    Re: filling area by color atack safety Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-03-17 14:27 +0000
      Re: filling area by color atack safety bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-17 15:13 +0000
      Re: filling area by color atack safety Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2024-03-19 10:57 +1100
        Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-20 01:26 +0100
  Re: filling area by color atack safety bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-16 19:13 +0000
    Re: filling area by color atack safety bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-03-16 20:23 +0000
      Re: filling area by color atack safety Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-16 20:29 +0000
    Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-20 01:48 +0100
      Re: filling area by color atack safety Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2024-03-22 13:04 +1100
        Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-22 17:55 +0300
          Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-22 18:31 +0300
        Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-23 11:06 +0100
  Re: filling area by color atack safety Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2024-03-17 18:03 +1100
  Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-18 13:09 -0700
    Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-18 22:42 -0700
      Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-19 13:18 +0200
        Re: filling area by color atack safety Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-19 11:57 +0000
          Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-19 15:49 +0200
            Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-19 21:43 -0700
              Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-20 10:56 +0200
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-20 06:51 -0700
          Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-19 19:18 +0200
            Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-20 09:27 +0100
              Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-20 09:39 +0100
              Re: filling area by color atack safety fir <fir@grunge.pl> - 2024-03-20 09:51 +0100
            Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-20 07:27 -0700
              Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-24 20:27 +0300
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-24 13:26 -0700
                Re: filling area by color atack safety "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-24 14:26 -0700
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-25 01:28 +0300
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-26 17:52 +0200
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-30 00:54 -0700
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-30 21:26 +0300
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-28 23:04 -0700
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-29 15:21 +0200
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-29 23:58 -0700
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-30 21:15 +0300
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-31 10:54 +0200
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-30 11:59 -0700
            Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-20 10:26 -0700
              Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-21 15:36 +0200
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-21 09:47 -0700
        Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-19 21:40 -0700
          Re: filling area by color atack safety "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-19 21:43 -0700
            Re: filling area by color atack safety "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-03-19 21:48 -0700
          Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-20 11:54 +0200
            Re: filling area by color atack safety Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-03-20 10:23 +0000
              Re: filling area by color atack safety Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-03-20 12:06 +0000
              Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-20 07:52 -0700
            Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-20 10:01 -0700
              Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-24 19:33 +0300
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-24 10:24 -0700
                Re: filling area by color atack safety Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-03-25 01:04 +0300
                Re: filling area by color atack safety - worst memory size Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-04-05 17:30 +0300

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