Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling

From	Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling
Date	2023-09-29 03:19 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<877co9d8m2.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <wwvpm23d9fr.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> <pan$6f4ce$6edf891e$2b5c40c1$f8f989c1@invalid.invalid> <AE3RM.402236$kCld.195109@fx08.ams4> <871qejf62x.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <86y1gphiur.fsf@linuxsc.com>

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Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> writes:

> Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> writes:
>
>> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 9/28/2023 6:52 AM, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
>>>
>>>> Personally, i think that, at least for a library, an error
>>>> should _only_ be communicated by return value.  If more complex
>>>> information is required, then the return value can be made more
>>>> complex.
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> Error handling in libraries is a thorny subject, and I could go
>>> on a long rant on it.  The short summary is simply this:  error
>>> handling is rife with incompetence, and incompetent designs.
>>> Even in languages that ostensibly provide better mechanisms than
>>> C, the details are usually poorly documented and under-specified
>>> [1].
>>
>> If it's done well, the result is not even "error handling" -- it's
>> just what the function returns.  For example, a lookup in a table
>> of integers in Haskell returns a type that is, in effect "maybe an
>> integer" The return will be either "Nothing" or something like
>> "Just 42".
>
> In languages that support it this approach is a good way to deal
> with cases like this, I agree.  But to me it falls in a different
> category than error handling.  An error condition is something
> like an allocation (eg malloc()) failure, or a broken pipe.  Not
> finding something in a table means whoever was responsible for
> adding things to the table didn't add it - in other words it was
> entirely a consequence of events that are under the program's
> control.  The issue is how to deal with an unpredictable, and
> usually very rare, event that is not something the program has
> control over.  Typically these kinds of situations need a
> different sort of mechanism than loading up the return value
> of every function call.

I agree that table lookup is not a compelling example, but I don't agree
that anything different is needed.  I intended the idea to be
generalised to have return values used for all error conditions.  There
may be situations where something different is /better/, but I remain
sceptical of even this claim.  Note I am not talking about situations
where asynchronous errors need to be reported.

C uses null pointers for this all the time.  Returning a null pointer is
just a way to signal an error through the return value.  In a language
like C without null pointers I would want malloc to return a 'Maybe'
type.  And for when more information is wanted (like your example of a
broken pipe) the type returned from write should be a number of bytes or
an error value of some sort.

Obviously it's hard to recommend this in C since the language can't
really express the patterns needed to make it convenient, but I think we
are talking more generally here.

How would you prefer these sorts of thing to be signalled?

BTW, have you come across Icon?  It takes an intriguing approach where
every operation succeeds or fails as well as having a value.  This idea
is heavily built upon to produce a very comfortable scripting language.

-- 
Ben.

Thread

Libraries using longjmp for error handling (was: Re: More on NNTP testing) Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-27 22:52 +0000
  Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling (was: Re: More on NNTP testing) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2023-09-28 08:19 +0800
    Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-28 02:18 +0100
      Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-28 22:30 +0000
        Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-09-28 22:33 +0000
          Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2023-09-29 01:41 +0300
            Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-09-28 23:45 +0000
          Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-09-28 17:35 -0700
            Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-29 16:49 +0200
      Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-28 18:24 -0700
        Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-29 03:19 +0100
          Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-29 07:46 -0700
            Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-29 21:02 +0100
              Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-29 21:56 -0700
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-10-01 00:06 +0100
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-30 20:35 -0700
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2023-10-01 14:44 +0300
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-10-01 15:45 +0100
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-10-01 09:28 -0700
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-10-01 20:49 +0100
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-10-02 02:31 -0700
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-10-02 23:55 +0100
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-10-03 05:01 -0700
            Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2023-09-29 23:58 +0300
              Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-10-01 02:52 -0700
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2023-10-01 14:33 +0300
  Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-28 01:48 +0100
  Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling (was: Re: More on NNTP testing) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-28 05:11 +0000
    Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling (was: Re: More on NNTP testing) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-28 06:26 +0000
  Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling (was: Re: More on NNTP testing) Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2023-09-28 16:02 +0300
    Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-28 14:44 +0100
      Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2023-09-28 18:31 +0300
        Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-28 16:43 +0000
          Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-09-28 17:00 +0000
            Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-28 17:16 +0000
            Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-28 19:38 +0100
          Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-28 16:05 -0700
            Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-29 00:26 +0000
              Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-28 23:20 -0700
            Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-09-28 18:31 -0700
              Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-29 03:24 +0100
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-29 03:12 +0000
              Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-28 22:45 -0700
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-09-29 12:02 +0000
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-29 08:10 -0700
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-29 17:03 +0100
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-29 10:15 -0700
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-09-29 17:17 +0000
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-29 18:53 +0000
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2023-09-29 18:11 +0300
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-29 10:20 -0700
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-09-29 11:30 -0700
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-29 18:31 +0000
        Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-28 19:27 +0100
          Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-28 20:24 +0000
            Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-28 22:23 +0100
              Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-28 15:43 -0700
              Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-09-28 23:11 +0000
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2023-09-29 17:23 +0300
                Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-29 08:19 -0700
        Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-09-28 21:57 +0200
  Re: Libraries using longjmp for error handling Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-30 09:37 +0100

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