Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan

From	Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan
Date	2023-04-05 03:01 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<874jpv84uv.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References	<u0fn0g$34scf$1@dont-email.me> <u0h1p8$ip0$1@reader2.panix.com> <u0hv4n$3hrar$2@dont-email.me> <87zg7n89zw.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <u0ig61$64g$1@reader2.panix.com>

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cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) writes:

> In article <87zg7n89zw.fsf@bsb.me.uk>,
> Ben Bacarisse  <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> wrote:
>>Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 4/4/2023 6:30 AM, Dan Cross wrote:
>>>> In article <u0fn0g$34scf$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Lynn McGuire  <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly
>>>>> with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan
>>>>>     https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3588242
>>>>> [snip]
>>>> Yikes.  That article is truly awful.
>>>> ACM should be ashamed.
>>>> 	- Dan C.
>>>
>>> Written by real programmers, not journalists.  What do you expect ?  Not
>>> everyone is Donald Knuth or Niklaus Wirth.
>>
>>I would expect a more serious tone from an ACM publication, but the
>>journal (ACMQUEUE) is one I don't know and it may well have a more
>>relaxed editorial policy than I am used to.  I don't like hyperbole and
>>sarcasm in technical publications but I am not "down with the kids"
>>these days.
>>
>>But their example stack code lends itself to a puzzle: on what
>>implementation assumptions does it depend?  I believe it is not fully
>>portable for reasons that are unrelated to the realloc implementation.
>>This is not, technically speaking, a bug since I have no reason to
>>suppose the code was intended to be portable across all conforming C
>>implementations, but I'd have pointed it out, had I been a reviewer,
>>since it's an unnecessary distraction to the reader.
>>
>>I agree with the authors that the change declaring realloc(..., 0) to be
>>undefined is worrying, but I can't follow their reasoning about the
>>history.  They suggest something had already happened in C17 that set C
>>on a course towards this "breaking change" but I can't find what they
>>refer to.
>
> The authors, bluntly, wrong: the behavior of realloc() when the
> size argument is 0, the implementation is, as it always has
> been since C89, implementation defined.

I got the impression they knew that.  However, in C89, realloc(ptr, 0)
must behave like free(ptr).  That changed, I think, in C99 with the
removal of that guarantee.  There is some evidence that they are little
confused about that guarantee having been lost, thought of course it is
still permitted.

> Moreoever, there's no
> way to tell whether the underlying object was actually free'd or
> not from the return alone, and checking `errno` is not portable.

Yes.

> The proposal to make realloc with size 0 UB is not bad here:
> https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n2464.pdf

I did not see any explanation there.  What's wrong with leaving it
implementation defined?  Is the motivation to tidy up an historical
mess?

> The authors tried to make it out like their code was portable
> and well-defined.  It was not.

I did not get that impression.  I thought their point was simply that
the code is not undefined and that being implementation defined is safer
than being undefined.

I think the code is poor, and I would not want it in any code base of
mine.  It can leak memory (in two different ways) but it does not have
formally undefined behaviour.

> That combined with the little quips about "neurodivergent" ideas
> or about marijuana legalization (really?) smack of proud
> ignorance.  That they can't understand at all what `unreachable`
> may be used for makes me think that they may not have as good of
> a handle on the language as they claim.

I didn't like the tone at all, and I was actually rather surprised by
it, given the publisher.  But maybe that specific journal is not a very
serious one.  I'd never heard of it before today.

> Oh, and among the people championing having `malloc(0)` return a
> non-NULL pointer were Rob Pike and Doug McIlroy.  Not that one
> need appeal to authority, but the article's authors would have
> done well to at least, perhaps, listen to some of the viewpoints
> of folks from the lab where C was born before pouring derision
> on ideas that they didn't seem to have a great understanding of.

They didn't discuss that implementation option at all and I agree that
they should have done.  But did they pour scorn on it?  I only ask
because I don't want to read it again!

-- 
Ben.

Thread

"Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2023-04-03 18:20 -0500
  Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Jim Kelly <invalid@invalid.net> - 2023-04-04 04:00 +0100
    Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2023-04-04 14:49 -0500
  Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Rene Kita <mail@rkta.de> - 2023-04-04 09:56 +0000
    Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-04-04 12:20 +0000
      Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-04-04 13:50 +0000
      Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Rene Kita <mail@rkta.de> - 2023-04-05 08:49 +0000
        Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-04-05 09:23 +0000
          Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-05 13:07 +0000
            (realloc) Angels and pins (Was: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-04-05 14:12 +0000
              Re: (realloc) Angels and pins (Was: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-05 17:09 +0000
            Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-04-05 20:16 +0100
              Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-05 21:03 +0000
              Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-11 04:05 -0700
          Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-05 17:05 +0200
  Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-04 11:30 +0000
    Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2023-04-04 14:51 -0500
      Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-04-05 01:10 +0100
        Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-05 00:42 +0000
          Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Opus <ifonly@youknew.org> - 2023-04-05 02:55 +0200
          Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-04-05 03:01 +0100
            Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-05 13:29 +0000
              Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-05 17:15 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-04-05 15:27 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-05 10:40 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-05 18:55 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-06 00:37 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-05 17:40 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-12 05:46 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-06 12:34 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2023-04-06 05:42 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-07 12:16 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-04-07 11:38 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-09 07:23 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-09 17:04 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-09 19:34 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-10 09:45 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-10 14:52 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-10 17:29 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-10 11:48 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-10 18:10 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-10 12:19 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-04-10 09:55 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-10 10:41 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-10 11:22 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-04-10 21:22 +0100
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-10 14:22 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-04-10 22:36 +0100
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-04-11 00:11 +0100
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-10 11:34 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-10 15:37 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-10 11:57 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-10 17:26 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-10 14:27 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-10 18:45 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-11 04:50 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-04-10 15:58 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-10 12:08 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-10 17:27 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-11 04:47 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-10 10:26 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-10 14:51 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-10 11:20 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-10 15:35 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-10 12:04 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-10 17:34 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-11 11:24 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-04-11 16:17 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-04-11 18:13 +0100
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-04-11 17:58 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-09 12:41 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-10 09:31 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-10 09:46 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-10 16:29 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-10 16:37 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-10 11:26 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-10 17:43 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-10 12:19 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-10 18:35 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-04-10 10:02 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-10 20:14 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-10 11:34 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2023-04-10 21:47 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-04-10 23:04 +0100
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-04-11 01:08 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-11 11:26 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-04-11 02:43 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-11 15:14 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-11 11:35 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-11 12:09 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-11 19:46 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-11 22:44 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-12 09:46 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-12 02:35 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-13 22:26 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-09 06:12 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-10 13:10 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-10 19:11 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-04-10 17:22 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-10 19:33 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-10 19:41 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-04-10 18:13 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-10 11:30 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-10 10:53 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-11 11:25 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-11 11:25 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-10 11:13 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-10 20:27 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-10 11:54 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-10 21:01 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-10 19:06 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-10 21:20 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-10 19:46 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-10 13:17 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-10 13:16 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-10 14:54 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-10 20:44 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-11 05:01 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-11 11:27 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-11 11:41 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-11 12:50 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-04-12 09:51 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-12 09:12 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-10 09:58 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-10 09:54 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-04-10 11:21 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-04-10 17:58 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-11 05:31 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-10 09:50 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-09 12:44 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-04-09 20:19 +0100
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-09 12:55 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-04-09 21:44 +0100
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-09 19:53 -0700
              Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-04-05 20:33 +0100
            Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-16 07:18 -0700
          Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-05 12:53 -0700
            Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-06 12:30 +0000
              Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-08 18:46 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-09 19:35 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-20 09:07 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-07-20 22:35 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2023-07-22 12:54 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-22 22:04 +0100
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2023-07-24 10:44 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:28 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2023-07-24 08:38 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-07-24 18:55 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan om@iki.fi (Otto J. Makela) - 2023-07-26 11:30 +0300
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-26 19:28 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-07 13:08 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-08-15 12:01 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-28 15:49 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-08-28 23:42 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-29 00:51 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-08-29 01:20 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-05 18:24 -0700
          Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-04-17 09:25 +0300
            Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-18 11:56 +0000
            Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-05-02 07:12 -0700
              Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-05-07 09:37 +0300
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-20 09:09 -0700
        Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2023-04-04 21:19 -0400
          Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-04-05 03:36 +0100
            Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Opus <ifonly@youknew.org> - 2023-04-05 05:10 +0200
              Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-04-05 07:54 -0400
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Opus <ifonly@youknew.org> - 2023-04-05 21:31 +0200
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-16 06:12 -0700
            Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-05 09:20 -0700
        Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-05 10:07 -0700
          Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-04-05 20:23 +0100
            Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-05 21:20 -0700
              Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-04-06 17:03 +0100
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2023-04-06 20:34 +0000
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-04-07 00:25 +0100
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-19 08:56 -0700
                Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-06 19:40 -0700
            Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-04-08 02:37 -0700
              Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-04-08 21:04 +0100
        Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-05-02 06:22 -0700
  Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 16:00 +0200
  Re: "Catch-23: The New C Standard,Sets the World on Fire" by Terence Kelly with Special Guest Borer Yekai Pan Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-29 04:45 -0700

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