Re: structs passed by copy

From	Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: structs passed by copy
Date	2023-01-24 12:56 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<873580rsz7.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References	(11 earlier) <878rhtgg7e.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <tqmrp4$3p3fg$1@dont-email.me> <d20c6408-77be-4e47-8724-91d9e2701b8bn@googlegroups.com> <878rhssteq.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <d17c6d83-8c66-4fbd-bb22-e006e3b395efn@googlegroups.com>

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Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:

> On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 1:50:02 AM UTC+2, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Michael S <already...@yahoo.com> writes: 
>> 
>> > On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 10:47:45 PM UTC+2, David Brown wrote: 
>> >> On 23/01/2023 21:15, Keith Thompson wrote: 
>> >> > David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> writes: 
>> >> > [...] 
>> >> >> I also wonder why the committee choose to make complex numbers 
>> >> >> mandatory in C99, then optional in C11. Complex numbers are not 
>> >> >> particularly hard to implement (once you have all the rest of floating 
>> >> >> point support and <math.h>), and on the user side they are zero cost 
>> >> >> if you don't use them. 
>> >> > 
>> >> > I had forgotten that C11 made complex numbers optional. I agree that it 
>> >> > was an odd decision, as was making VLAs optional. 
>> >> > 
>> >> > Making a feature optional could be a good first step towards making it 
>> >> > mandatory in a future edition of the standard. Making an existing 
>> >> > mandatory feature optional makes less sense to me. 
>> >> > 
>> >> Could it have been pressure from a certain major compiler manufacturer 
>> >> who has been extremely slow at implementing some C99 features, other 
>> >> than those that were also part of C++ ? Perhaps they wanted to change 
>> >> their reputation of being poor at C because they were far from C99 
>> >> compliant, and they could now get C11 compliance with less effort. 
>> >> 
>> >> Or maybe that's just a conspiracy theory :-) 
>> > 
>> > I'd guess, that's part of the reason. 
>> > The other part is desire to make 'C' maximally close to a subset of 
>> > C++.
>> But then C++ has had complex numbers (alost from the get-go), so maybe 
>> not! 
>
> C++ complex numbers are part of template library rather than of base language.
> C99 complex numbers and C++ complex number are not merely incompatible,
> forcing them to co-exist in the same program is not easy.
> And then, we have IPP (Intel Performance Primitives) complex types to make
> things more interesting.
>
> But my previous comment had smaller scope. All I wanted to say is that
> committee likely wants to reduce the # of 'C' programs that are neither
> legal C++ nor can be turned into legal C++ programs easily by adding few casts
> [that will still keep the legal C programs].
> C99 VLA and complex numbers are by far the biggest obstacles here.

OK, I see where you are going with this.  You think that minimal
adjustment is the aim.  I was thinking that some class of programs using
C's complex numbers could be made valid C++ with a fee macros and an #if
or two, but it's been years since I wrote any such code and, anyway, you
are suggesting a much narrower concept of "subset".

By the way, are you basing this suggestion on some inside information (a
paper, a private conversation...) or is it speculative?

-- 
Ben.

Thread

structs passed by copy Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-01-20 10:41 -0800
  Re: structs passed by copy gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-01-20 19:01 +0000
    Re: structs passed by copy Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2023-01-20 23:01 +0300
      Re: structs passed by copy gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-01-20 21:28 +0000
        Re: structs passed by copy Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-01-21 09:14 +0000
        Re: structs passed by copy Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2023-01-21 10:58 -0700
          Re: structs passed by copy gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-01-21 18:00 +0000
          Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-01-21 16:14 -0800
            Re: structs passed by copy James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-01-22 16:00 -0500
              Re: structs passed by copy "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 13:07 -0800
              Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 13:27 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 13:51 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 13:51 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-01-22 17:11 -0500
                Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 16:01 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-01-22 21:22 -0500
                Re: structs passed by copy David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-23 10:46 +0100
                Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 12:15 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-23 21:47 +0100
                Re: structs passed by copy Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-01-23 13:21 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-01-23 23:49 +0000
                Re: structs passed by copy Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-01-24 02:46 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-01-24 04:18 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-01-24 04:45 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-01-24 04:54 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-01-24 05:26 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-01-24 05:38 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-01-24 05:53 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-01-24 06:20 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-01-24 06:56 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-01-24 07:17 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-01-24 12:56 +0000
                Re: structs passed by copy Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-01-24 07:29 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-01-23 15:44 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 16:37 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-01-23 20:13 -0500
                Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-01-23 17:58 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-01-24 07:53 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-01-24 11:14 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-01-24 12:02 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-01-25 10:18 +0200
                Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-01-25 10:53 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-01-29 13:30 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-01-29 17:42 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-02-17 07:19 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-17 09:35 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2023-01-30 04:24 +0000
                Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-01-29 21:10 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-01-30 13:55 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-02-17 05:57 -0800
      Re: structs passed by copy James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-01-21 05:00 -0500
        Re: structs passed by copy Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2023-01-21 23:00 +0300
          Re: structs passed by copy Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-01-21 17:10 -0500
    Re: structs passed by copy Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-01-20 18:12 -0800
    Re: structs passed by copy antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2023-01-21 02:28 +0000
  Re: structs passed by copy Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-01-20 14:09 -0500
    Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-01-20 11:26 -0800
  Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-01-20 11:22 -0800
  Re: structs passed by copy Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-01-20 20:16 +0000
    Re: structs passed by copy Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-01-20 19:16 -0800
      Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-01-20 21:08 -0800
      Re: structs passed by copy Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-01-21 13:30 +0000
        Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 10:27 -0800
  Re: structs passed by copy Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-01-20 21:35 -0500
  Re: structs passed by copy "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-20 19:01 -0800
    Re: structs passed by copy "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-21 17:01 -0800
  Re: structs passed by copy David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-21 14:59 +0100
  Re: structs passed by copy Opus <ifonly@youknew.org> - 2023-01-21 19:59 +0100
  Re: structs passed by copy Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-01-21 16:55 -0800
    Re: structs passed by copy Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 02:32 -0800
      Re: structs passed by copy Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-01-22 15:54 +0000
        Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 09:17 -0800
          Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 09:56 -0800
            Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 10:19 -0800
              Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 11:01 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 11:08 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 11:17 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 13:27 -0800
        Re: structs passed by copy "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 13:04 -0800
          Re: structs passed by copy Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-01-22 21:43 +0000
            Re: structs passed by copy "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 14:10 -0800
              Re: structs passed by copy Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-01-22 22:29 +0000
                Re: structs passed by copy "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 14:39 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 19:06 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-01-23 10:54 +0100
        Re: structs passed by copy Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-01-22 19:00 -0800
          Re: structs passed by copy Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-01-23 12:14 +0000
  Re: structs passed by copy Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2023-02-11 19:35 +0000
    Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-11 15:08 -0800
      Re: structs passed by copy Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-02-11 15:56 -0800
        Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-11 16:32 -0800
          Re: structs passed by copy James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-12 01:23 -0500
            Re: structs passed by copy David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-12 11:24 +0100
              Re: structs passed by copy Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-12 22:11 +0000
                Re: structs passed by copy David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-13 10:25 +0100
                Re: structs passed by copy Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-02-13 06:41 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-02-13 06:50 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-13 17:22 +0100
                Re: structs passed by copy Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-02-13 10:47 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-13 21:50 +0100
                Re: structs passed by copy bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-02-15 17:14 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-16 10:53 +0100
                Re: structs passed by copy scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-16 15:22 +0000
            Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-12 11:04 -0800
          Re: structs passed by copy Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-02-12 12:41 -0800
          Re: structs passed by copy Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-16 22:49 -0800
      Re: structs passed by copy "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-02-11 17:49 -0800
      Grammar nitpick (Was: structs passed by copy) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-02-12 06:30 +0000
      Re: structs passed by copy Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-03-06 09:32 -0800
        Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-03-06 09:58 -0800
          Re: structs passed by copy Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-03-06 11:30 -0800
            Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-03-06 12:59 -0800
    Re: structs passed by copy Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-02-15 01:52 -0800
      Re: structs passed by copy Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-02-16 05:20 -0800
        Re: structs passed by copy David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-16 16:49 +0100
        Re: structs passed by copy Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-02-26 08:12 -0800
          Re: structs passed by copy Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-02-28 05:38 -0800
            Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-28 14:18 -0800
              Re: structs passed by copy Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 05:02 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 10:23 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 10:42 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 15:13 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-03-02 04:17 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-03-05 04:17 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-03-05 04:55 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-03-02 10:48 +0100
                Re: structs passed by copy Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-03-02 04:07 -0800
                Re: structs passed by copy David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-03-02 15:08 +0100
                Re: structs passed by copy Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-03-02 09:22 -0800
              Re: structs passed by copy gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-03-01 13:34 +0000
                Re: structs passed by copy Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-03-01 21:42 -0500
            Re: structs passed by copy Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-03-06 09:36 -0800
  Re: structs passed by copy Maciej Zelma <maciej.projectmanager@gmail.com> - 2023-02-17 14:10 -0800
    Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-17 15:45 -0800
      Re: structs passed by copy scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-18 00:12 +0000
        Re: structs passed by copy bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-02-18 02:33 -0800
    Re: structs passed by copy James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-18 00:44 -0500
      Re: structs passed by copy Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-17 22:21 -0800
  Re: structs passed by copy Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 18:00 +0100
    Re: structs passed by copy Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 09:18 -0800
      Re: structs passed by copy Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-03-05 14:05 +0100

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