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Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3

Newsgroups sci.logic
Date 2023-05-29 13:58 -0700
References (15 earlier) <e6d1a290-5611-4d23-8018-dace389318c8n@googlegroups.com> <3783e5e7-3944-4141-866e-3230ba68436cn@googlegroups.com> <u52ojt$kerp$1@solani.org> <2f3bdb06-2660-4304-adf7-6baf015c3129n@googlegroups.com> <39d944fc-40a3-4b53-b910-758de1944545n@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID <5a63fe01-7e52-46b8-abdf-768d264a2ca1n@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3
From Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com>

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Conclusion it requires more work, to go from predicates
to sets, than blindly replacing each predicate by a set
membership. It requires more when you want to

preserve validity and invalidity, i.e. when you want to 
prevent false positives in the new formalization with sets. 
Most mathematicians know how to do it.

Mild Shock schrieb am Montag, 29. Mai 2023 um 22:39:06 UTC+2:
> But your blooper is understandable, distinguishing 
> Chihuahuas from Muffins requires very good eye sight. 
> Artificial intelligence has similar struggles:
> Chihuahua or muffin? My search for the best computer vision API 
> https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/chihuahua-or-muffin-my-search-for-the-best-computer-vision-api-cbda4d6b425d/
> In the present case one needs eye sight to 
> see that we have "invalid" and "valid", two different 
> words already, even with opposite meaning: 
> 
> > **Muffin:** ∃x¬Dx is invalid. 
> > https://www.umsu.de/trees/#~7x~3Dx 
> 
> > **Chihuahua:** EXIST(x):[~x in s] is valid. 
> > http://www.dcproof.com/UniversalSet.htm
> Dan Christensen schrieb am Montag, 29. Mai 2023 um 20:10:17 UTC+2: 
> > On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 1:52:10 PM UTC-4, Mild Shock (aka Mr. Collapse) wrote: 
> > 
> > > Dan Christensen schrieb: 
> > > > On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 12:39:51 PM UTC-4, Mild Shock (aka Mr. Collapse) wrote: 
> > > >> Similarly you can prove these two now: 
> > > >> EXIST(x):[x in d => p=d] 
> > > >> EXIST(x):[x in d => ~p=d] 
> > > >> 
> > > > 
> > > > Yes. Sadly, for you Mr. Collapse, this apparently does NOT lead to any inconsistency. Just try prove from this that p=d & ~p=d. 
> > > > 
> > > > This shows why you should avoid pathological constructs of the form EXIST(x):[x in s => P]. They really tell you nothing useful. 
> > > > 
> > > It leads to an error, nonsensical conclusion, caused by over 
> > > generalization. Over generalization is also a problem 
> > > in machine learning of artificial intelligence: 
> > > 
> > > For example this AI cannot distinguish a Chihuahua from a Muffin: 
> > > 
> > Huh? I take it you were unable to prove that the above results were inconsistent. Now, you can only hope to change the subject. Oh, well... 
> > Dan 
> > 
> > Download my DC Proof 2.0 freeware at http://www.dcproof.com 
> > Visit my Math Blog at http://www.dcproof.wordpress.com

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Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 06:59 -0700
  Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 07:10 -0700
  Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-21 08:22 -0700
    Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 12:14 -0700
      Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 12:16 -0700
    Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 12:17 -0700
      Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-21 12:50 -0700
        Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 12:56 -0700
          Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-21 15:45 -0700
          Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-21 16:01 -0700
            Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 16:29 -0700
              Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 16:56 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 16:59 -0700
              Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-21 17:51 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-22 02:51 +0200
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-26 14:13 -0700
    Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 08:53 -0700
      Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 08:56 -0700
        Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 09:03 -0700
          Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 09:34 -0700
            Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 09:38 -0700
              Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 09:39 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 10:24 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-29 19:49 +0200
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 11:10 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 13:39 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 13:58 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 15:17 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 15:24 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 17:39 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 18:52 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 19:04 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 19:34 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-30 15:18 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 11:39 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 15:56 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 18:53 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 22:40 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 22:48 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 22:57 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-06 07:37 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-06 09:13 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-06 10:13 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-07 13:31 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-07 13:37 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-07 13:42 -0700

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