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Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3

Newsgroups sci.logic
Date 2023-05-21 12:16 -0700
References (17 earlier) <u3l2ve$gb4s$1@solani.org> <7a8f9c8f-3ee8-4ef2-bf30-e4d5e2f383e3n@googlegroups.com> <a05e76db-1b0b-4e9d-90a9-3f09522e169an@googlegroups.com> <e5ccd941-cd2d-4baa-a6d2-0601411e93cen@googlegroups.com> <2a0d3af7-1acb-449c-9ab8-5c91dbbbeb89n@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID <3499ed9e-a01b-4e61-b79b-e2c8737e7e97n@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3
From Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com>

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(Oops, pressed send too fast. Got some text missing)

Are you dumb or what, do you really ask:

> > Ultimately you cannot prove:
> > ALL(U):ALL(s):[Set(s) & Set(U) & Subset(s,U) => EXIST(a):[a e U & ~a e s]]
> Again, what happens if U=s?

Its a witness that makes the formula false. It s=U is one
of the COUNTER EXAMPLES that makes the formula false.
Thats the reason the formula cannot be proved.

If it were that the formula could be proved, this would mean
we have deduced that the formula is generally valid. And
if we would have such a proof, we would know,

that the formula is also true for s=U. But the counter example
shows that the formula is not true for s=U. So if your logic
and set theory is consistent, we can conclude that

the formula CANNOT BE PROVED.

Got it dumbo?

Mostowski Collapse schrieb am Sonntag, 21. Mai 2023 um 21:14:23 UTC+2:
> Are you dumb or what, do you really ask:
> > > Ultimately you cannot prove: 
> > > ALL(U):ALL(s):[Set(s) & Set(U) & Subset(s,U) => EXIST(a):[a e U & ~a e s]] 
> > Again, what happens if U=s?
> Its a witness that makes the formula false. It s=U is one 
> of the COUNTER EXAMPLES that makes the formula false. 
> Thats the reason the formula cannot be proved. 
> 
> If it were that the formula could be proved, this would mean 
> we have deduced that the formula is generally valid. And 
> if we would have such a proof, we would know, 
> 
> Got it dumbo?

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Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-07 02:41 -0700
  Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-07 06:59 -0700
    Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-07 08:31 -0700
      Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-07 11:19 -0700
        Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-07 20:34 +0200
          Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-07 20:41 +0200
            Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-07 20:47 +0200
              Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-07 20:48 +0200
          Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-07 11:51 -0700
            Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-08 05:36 -0700
              Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-08 07:22 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-11 14:34 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-11 16:10 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-11 17:00 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-12 12:04 +0200
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-12 03:13 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-12 07:12 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 06:59 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 07:10 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-21 08:22 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 12:14 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 12:16 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 12:17 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-21 12:50 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 12:56 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-21 15:45 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-21 16:01 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 16:29 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 16:56 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 16:59 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-21 17:51 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-22 02:51 +0200
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-26 14:13 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 08:53 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 08:56 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 09:03 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 09:34 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 09:38 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 09:39 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 10:24 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-29 19:49 +0200
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 11:10 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 13:39 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 13:58 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 15:17 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 15:24 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 17:39 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 18:52 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 19:04 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 19:34 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-30 15:18 -0700

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