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Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"

From D <nospam@example.net>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke"
Date 2024-07-31 22:11 +0200
Organization i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID <375d613a-6f70-ced5-ef49-dfd3c972b049@example.net> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <hjiiajto648istmomgtifpqrtuo9unvvnj@4ax.com> <FXednfi4H5An1jT7nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@giganews.com> <v8csf9$1go7v$1@dont-email.me> <e6d1c930-a56d-a62d-561f-469544653cc7@example.net> <v8d47p$1htj8$2@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On Wed, 31 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>> By the very nature of them being unanswerable, the connection between them 
>> and the world is nil.
>
> Completely wrong.
> Consider the statement 'everything is caused by some other things'

Already here we go wrong. Since we do not know _everything_, that
statement makes no sense.

Let me instead focus on the question, can we prove causation. I offer
the following:

Randomized Controlled Trials (RCTs): The gold standard for proving
causation is through randomized controlled experiments. In an RCT,
participants are randomly assigned to either a treatment group or a
control group. This randomization helps ensure that any differences in
outcomes can be attributed solely to the treatment being tested, thus
providing strong evidence for causality.

Observational Studies with Instrumental Variables: When RCTs are not
feasible, researchers often rely on observational studies. Here,
identifying instrumental variables—factors that influence the treatment
but do not directly affect the outcome—can help establish causal
relationships. For example, if a new policy is implemented at a specific
time affecting only certain groups, comparing outcomes before and after
can provide insights into causal effects.
>
> This assumption cannot be proved to be true. It is a metaphysical statement, 
> and yet it is the basis for all classical science.

I already disagreed with your sentence, and offered 2 ways in which we
can prove causation.

>> We have hypothesis and experiment that tells
>> us there is an external world which such certainty, that the burden of 
>> proof is on the one who does not believe in the external world, to disprove 
>> the external world, and no one has so far succeeded at that.
>> 
>
> Irrelevant in this context. An external world is a simple way to explain our 
> lack of total freedom to be what we want and experience what we want. Doesnt 
> mean its true, juts means its a very good and useful explanation.

If you do not accept it, then you have the burden of proof. Prove to me
an alternative to the external world, and I'll gladly read this first
break through in philosophy since it began.

Meanwhlie, in terms of the external world, let me present you to G.E.
Moore and the "hand".

The argument takes the following form:

Here is one hand,
And here is another.
There are at least two external objects in the world.
Therefore, an external world exists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_is_one_hand .

>> Metaphysics, at least on usenet, tends to devolve into solipsism or 
>> aggressive skepticism, which is a dead end.
>
> Not with me it don't.

Yes.

> In fact in the context of  the application of belief systems and anti-science 
> to today's political landscape, if you don't understand it, you are a bit 
> fucked, frankly.

I'm not talking about it. You have Moores answer above. QED. If it was
good enough for a Professor of Philosophy at the University of
Cambridge, it's good enough for me.

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Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2024-07-29 20:04 +0000
  Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 16:44 -0400
    Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2024-07-30 18:47 +0000
      Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-07-30 12:41 -0700
        Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-07-30 15:18 -0500
          Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 13:23 -0700
            Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-31 09:26 +0100
              Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-31 11:09 +0200
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-07-31 05:02 -0500
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-31 22:03 +0200
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-31 11:38 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-31 22:11 +0200
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-01 09:50 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-02 13:21 +0200
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-02 13:47 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-03 12:33 +0200
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-03 12:02 +0100
              Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-31 08:11 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-31 22:16 +0200
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-07-31 15:21 -0700
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-08-01 08:14 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-08-01 18:23 +0000
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-01 09:53 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-08-01 06:50 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-01 12:57 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-08-01 11:17 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-01 17:47 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-08-01 12:56 -0700
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-02 07:16 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-08-02 06:35 -0500
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-08-02 08:56 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-03 12:25 +0200
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-02 13:48 +0200
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-08-02 07:47 -0700
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2024-08-02 16:06 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-03 11:32 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2024-08-03 12:43 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-08-02 12:57 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2024-08-02 18:50 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-08-02 17:49 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2024-08-03 08:11 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-03 11:40 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-08-03 07:47 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-08-03 07:19 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2024-08-03 12:54 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-03 12:36 +0200
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-08-03 07:41 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-03 11:38 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-03 11:16 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2024-08-03 11:56 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-03 12:17 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2024-08-02 15:34 +0000
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-08-02 08:38 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-03 12:28 +0200
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-08-03 07:27 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-02 13:28 +0200
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-08-01 07:03 -0500
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-01 13:13 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-08-01 11:30 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-08-01 14:46 -0500
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-08-01 17:39 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-02 07:26 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-08-01 16:55 -0500
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-08-01 15:49 -0700
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-08-01 18:08 -0500
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-08-01 18:58 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-08-01 12:07 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-08-01 08:18 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-02 13:32 +0200
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-08-02 08:02 -0700
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-08-01 12:40 -0700
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-08-01 18:48 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-08-01 18:36 -0700
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" geodandw <geodandw@gmail.com> - 2024-08-01 21:48 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-08-02 07:51 -0700
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-03 11:19 +0100
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-08-03 08:17 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-08-02 08:50 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-08-02 08:20 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-02 13:26 +0200
              Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-31 10:00 -0700
          Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-30 22:56 +0200
          Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 21:50 -0400
        Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2024-07-30 21:31 +0100
        Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-30 18:27 -0400
          Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-30 16:36 -0700
            Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-30 20:40 -0400
            Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-31 10:58 +0200
              Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-31 08:12 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-31 22:16 +0200
              Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2024-07-31 15:55 +0000
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-31 10:00 -0700
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-07-31 15:43 -0500
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2024-07-31 14:28 -0700
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-07-31 15:39 -0700
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-08-01 08:16 -0400
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-07-31 15:29 -0700
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-07-31 15:31 -0700
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-31 22:16 +0200
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-31 17:47 -0400
              Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-07-31 10:00 -0700
                Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-31 22:18 +0200
        Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2024-07-31 15:50 +0000
      Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-07-30 18:15 -0400
      Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 21:12 -0400

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