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Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3

Newsgroups	sci.logic
Date	2023-05-21 16:29 -0700
References	(20 earlier) <e5ccd941-cd2d-4baa-a6d2-0601411e93cen@googlegroups.com> <c234636a-bdaf-425c-a2d7-db377b7cec46n@googlegroups.com> <ea9a190d-3a5e-4a62-be4e-302ff5a8bee9n@googlegroups.com> <9bdcdca7-efd7-46b0-a31c-d23aae1672fbn@googlegroups.com> <63fb528b-804b-40f4-a5d8-c6c288825badn@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID	<26f3def2-bd2a-471d-b206-1b4c7e363449n@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3
From	Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com>

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Your Banana Solution with Russells Paradox doesn't apply.
The "Universal Set" inside the Drinker Paradox exists as the set
U, i.e. the "house". When you model s and U as sets.

You cannot go on and model s as set and then leave out U,
and not model it as a set, as you do. It doesn't make any 
sense, since there is the scenario s = U.

Smullyan doesn't talk about Drinkers outside of the house,
and he clearly indicates the scenario s = U. Read
for yourself. Or cant you read?

A man was at a bar. He suddenly slammed down his
fist and said, " Gimme a drink, and give everyone elsch
a drink, caush when I drink, everybody drinksh!" So drinks
were happily passed around the house.
https://cs.bme.hu/~szeredi/ait/Smullyan-What-is-the-Name-of-This-Book.pdf

Dan Christensen schrieb am Montag, 22. Mai 2023 um 01:01:41 UTC+2:
> On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 3:56:49 PM UTC-4, Mostowski Collapse wrote: 
> 
> > Dan Christensen schrieb am Sonntag, 21. Mai 2023 um 21:50:25 UTC+2: 
> > > On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 3:17:53 PM UTC-4, Mostowski Collapse wrote:
> [snip childish abuse by Mr. Collapse]
> > > > > > Ultimately you cannot prove: 
> > > > > > ALL(U):ALL(s):[Set(s) & Set(U) & Subset(s,U) => EXIST(a):[a e U & ~a e s]] 
> > > > > Again, what happens if U=s? 
> > > I think we can agree that we should NOT be able to prove that statement, the counter-example being U=s. 
> > >
> > CANNOT BE PROVED = There is no Russel Paradox in the Drinker Paradox.
> Wrong again, Mr. Collapse. A set-theoretic version of a proof of Smullyan's Drinkers Principle requires the Subset Axiom (Specification in ZFC theory), which leads to a resolution of Russell's Paradox in a sub-proof. Deal with it, Mr. Collapse.
> Dan 
> 
> Download my DC Proof 2.0 freeware at http://www.dcproof.com 
> Visit my Math Blog at http://www.dcproof.wordpress.com

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Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-07 08:31 -0700
  Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-07 11:19 -0700
    Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-07 20:34 +0200
      Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-07 20:41 +0200
        Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-07 20:47 +0200
          Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-07 20:48 +0200
      Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-07 11:51 -0700
        Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-08 05:36 -0700
          Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-08 07:22 -0700
            Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-11 14:34 -0700
              Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-11 16:10 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-11 17:00 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-12 12:04 +0200
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-12 03:13 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-12 07:12 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 06:59 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 07:10 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-21 08:22 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 12:14 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 12:16 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 12:17 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-21 12:50 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 12:56 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-21 15:45 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-21 16:01 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 16:29 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 16:56 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-21 16:59 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-21 17:51 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-22 02:51 +0200
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mostowski Collapse <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-26 14:13 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 08:53 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 08:56 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 09:03 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 09:34 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 09:38 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 09:39 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 10:24 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-29 19:49 +0200
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 11:10 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 13:39 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 13:58 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 15:17 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 15:24 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 17:39 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 18:52 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 19:04 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 19:34 -0700
                Re: Smullyan's Proof of the Drinkers Principle V3 Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-30 15:18 -0700

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