Re: srand(0)

From	Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: srand(0)
Date	2025-12-31 15:29 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<20251231152909.00002bf9@yahoo.com> (permalink)
References	(10 earlier) <10ilfqp$2fs21$1@dont-email.me> <10ivq6b$1j8r3$1@dont-email.me> <q2V4R.913844$ACS3.500160@fx17.iad> <10j206j$27s3j$1@dont-email.me> <10j247s$2925s$3@dont-email.me>

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On Wed, 31 Dec 2025 03:10:52 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> On Wed, 31 Dec 2025 02:01:55 -0000 (UTC), Michael Sanders wrote:
> 
> > *ISO C (C17 / C23)*:
> >
> > C17, 5.1.2.2.1 "Program startup"
> >
> > The value of argc shall be nonnegative.
> >
> > argv[argc] shall be a null pointer.
> >
> > If the value of argc is greater than zero, the array members argv[0]
> > through argv[argc−1] inclusive shall contain pointers to strings
> > which are given implementation-defined values.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > What say you?  
> 
> Clearly on Windows, there are no guarantees about argc contains, so
> you shouldn’t be relying on it.

How did you come to this conclusion?
Keith's test appears to show the opposite - he was not able to convince
the Windows system to call application with empty argv list.
Of course, he tried only one way out of many, but knowing how native
Windows system call works, it appears extremely likely that on Windows
argc < 1 is impossible.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/processthreadsapi/nf-processthreadsapi-createprocessa

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srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-22 08:48 +0000
  Re: srand(0) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-12-22 06:44 -0500
    Re: srand(0) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-22 13:18 +0100
      Re: srand(0) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-12-22 12:13 -0500
        Re: srand(0) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-22 18:41 +0100
          Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-12-22 20:45 +0200
            Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-22 21:16 +0000
            Re: srand(0) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-22 22:19 +0100
            Re: srand(0) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-22 22:57 +0100
              Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-12-23 11:18 +0200
                Re: srand(0) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-23 10:54 +0100
                Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-12-23 13:50 +0200
                Re: srand(0) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-12-23 18:29 -0500
                Re: srand(0) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-12-23 16:30 -0800
            Re: srand(0) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-12-23 17:54 +0000
              Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-12-24 00:08 +0200
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-24 02:02 +0000
                Re: srand(0) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-12-23 23:43 -0500
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-24 05:34 +0000
                Re: srand(0) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-12-24 09:00 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-12-24 12:12 +0200
                Article of Melissa O'Nail (Was: srand(0)) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-12-28 02:44 +0200
                Re: Article of Melissa O'Nail antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-12-28 05:38 +0000
                Re: Article of Melissa O'Nail Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-12-28 12:35 +0200
                Re: Article of Melissa O'Nail Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-01-05 14:21 +0200
                Re: Article of Melissa O'Nail antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-01-07 10:51 +0000
                Re: Article of Melissa O'Nail Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-01-08 14:03 +0200
                Re: Article of Melissa O'Nail Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-01-08 09:40 -0800
                Re: srand(0) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-01-08 09:26 -0800
                Re: srand(0) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-12-24 13:48 -0800
                Re: srand(0) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-01-07 08:41 -0800
                Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-01-08 01:06 +0200
              Re: srand(0) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-12-24 05:22 -0600
                Re: srand(0) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-12-24 23:09 -0600
                Re: srand(0) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-25 09:51 +0100
                Re: srand(0) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-12-25 04:24 -0600
              Re: srand(0) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-01-07 07:50 -0800
            Re: srand(0) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-01-07 07:46 -0800
              Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-01-07 18:14 +0200
          Re: srand(0) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2025-12-22 19:16 +0000
            Re: srand(0) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-22 22:35 +0100
      Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-23 07:24 +0000
        Re: srand(0) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-23 09:59 +0100
          Re: srand(0) Michael Bäuerle <michael.baeuerle@stz-e.de> - 2025-12-23 11:09 +0100
            Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-23 14:49 +0000
          Re: srand(0) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-12-23 16:13 +0000
            Re: srand(0) richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2025-12-23 19:05 +0000
        Re: srand(0) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-12-23 02:16 -0800
          Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-23 14:47 +0000
        Re: srand(0) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-12-23 16:08 +0000
          Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-24 15:44 +0000
    Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-23 07:17 +0000
      Re: srand(0) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-12-23 08:25 +0100
        Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-23 14:45 +0000
          Re: srand(0) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-12-23 19:15 +0100
  Re: srand(0) John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> - 2025-12-23 00:39 +0000
    Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-23 02:17 +0000
      Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-23 14:55 +0000
        Re: srand(0) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-12-24 23:35 -0600
          Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-26 08:23 +0000
            Re: srand(0) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-12-26 14:48 -0600
              Re: srand(0) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-12-26 15:12 -0600
    Re: srand(0) Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2025-12-23 06:49 +0000
      Re: srand(0) John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> - 2025-12-23 20:37 +0000
        Re: srand(0) Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2025-12-24 15:22 +0000
    Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-23 07:25 +0000
      Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-24 06:16 +0000
        Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-24 15:21 +0000
          Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-24 19:00 +0000
            Re: srand(0) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-12-25 03:07 -0600
              Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-25 19:31 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-25 21:14 +0100
                Re: srand(0) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-12-25 15:29 -0600
                Re: srand(0) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-12-25 23:25 -0500
                Re: srand(0) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-12-25 23:41 -0600
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-26 05:42 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-12-26 01:52 -0500
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-26 07:56 +0000
                Re: srand(0) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-12-26 04:48 -0600
      Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-12-24 10:51 +0200
        Re: srand(0) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-12-24 00:59 -0800
        Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-24 15:28 +0000
          Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-12-24 17:44 +0200
            Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-24 16:17 +0000
              Re: srand(0) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-24 17:53 +0100
                Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-24 17:27 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-24 17:33 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-12-24 20:16 +0200
                Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-25 02:01 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-25 03:17 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-26 08:13 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-25 04:30 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-25 09:10 +0100
                Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-26 08:08 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-30 06:07 +0000
                Re: srand(0) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-12-30 18:42 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-31 02:01 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-31 03:10 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-31 03:28 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-31 09:37 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2026-01-01 07:32 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-01 19:02 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2026-01-01 19:20 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-01-01 21:53 +0200
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-01 23:50 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-01-02 14:32 +0200
                Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-01-02 16:18 +0200
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-02 20:52 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-02 20:46 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2026-01-03 04:08 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-03 04:39 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2026-01-03 14:24 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-01-03 20:38 +0200
                Re: srand(0) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-12-30 19:37 -0800
                Re: srand(0) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-12-31 17:24 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-12-31 15:17 -0800
                Re: srand(0) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-12-31 12:30 -0500
                Re: srand(0) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-12-31 18:42 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-12-31 15:07 -0500
                Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-12-31 22:18 +0200
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-31 20:55 +0000
                Re: srand(0) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-12-31 22:57 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-12-31 16:00 -0800
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-01 01:03 +0000
                Re: srand(0) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-01-01 14:05 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-01 19:03 +0000
                Re: srand(0) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-01-01 20:28 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-12-31 15:29 -0800
                Re: srand(0) highcrew <high.crew3868@fastmail.com> - 2026-01-01 00:31 +0100
                Re: srand(0) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-12-31 16:05 -0800
                Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-12-31 15:29 +0200
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-31 20:52 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-12-31 15:14 -0800
                Re: srand(0) Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-05 20:00 -0800
                Re: srand(0) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-12-31 15:03 -0800
                Re: srand(0) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-12-30 19:35 -0800
                Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-31 04:51 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-12-31 15:15 +0200
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-31 20:51 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-12-31 15:00 -0800
                Re: srand(0) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-01-01 01:45 +0200
                Re: srand(0) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-12-31 16:34 -0800
                Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2026-01-01 07:23 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2026-01-01 02:01 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-01 02:29 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-30 06:34 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-30 14:05 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-28 05:51 +0000
            Re: srand(0) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-12-24 17:08 +0000
    Re: srand(0) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-01-07 07:39 -0800
      Re: srand(0) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-01-07 13:54 -0800
        Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2026-01-08 15:34 +0000
          Re: srand(0) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-01-08 14:44 -0800
            Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2026-01-09 06:06 +0000
              Re: srand(0) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-01-08 22:46 -0800
                Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2026-01-09 22:38 +0000
                Re: srand(0) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-09 23:27 +0000
                Re: srand(0) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-01-09 17:09 -0800
                Re: srand(0) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-01-10 19:44 +0000
        Re: srand(0) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-01-09 00:36 -0800
  Re: srand(0) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-12-23 11:04 +0100
  Re: srand(0) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-12-23 21:44 -0800
    Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-24 15:41 +0000
      Re: srand(0) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-12-24 18:04 +0100
        Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2025-12-25 05:41 +0000
  Re: srand(0) Michael Sanders <porkchop@invalid.foo> - 2026-01-08 02:57 +0000

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