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Groups > comp.lang.c > #385126

Re: C23 thoughts and opinions

From Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: C23 thoughts and opinions
Date 2024-05-26 19:35 +0300
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <20240526193549.000031a8@yahoo.com> (permalink)
References (10 earlier) <87ikz11osy.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <v2v59g$3cr0f$1@dont-email.me> <v2v7ni$3d70v$1@dont-email.me> <20240526161832.000012a6@yahoo.com> <v2vka0$3f4a2$1@dont-email.me>

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On Sun, 26 May 2024 16:25:51 +0100
bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:

> On 26/05/2024 14:18, Michael S wrote:
> > On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:51:12 +0100
> > bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> >   
> >> On 26/05/2024 12:09, David Brown wrote:  
> >>> On 26/05/2024 00:58, Keith Thompson wrote:  
> >>  
> >>>> For a very large file, that could be a significant burden.  (I
> >>>> don't have any numbers on that.)  
> >>>
> >>> I do :
> >>>
> >>> <https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n3017.htm#design-efficiency-metrics>
> >>>
> >>> (That's from a proposal for #embed for C and C++.  Generating the
> >>> numbers and parsing them is akin to using xxd.)
> >>>
> >>> More useful links:
> >>>
> >>> <https://thephd.dev/embed-the-details#results>
> >>> <https://thephd.dev/implementing-embed-c-and-c++>
> >>>
> >>> (These are from someone who did a lot of the work for the
> >>> proposals, and prototype implementations, as far as I understand
> >>> it.)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Note that I can't say how much of a difference this will make in
> >>> real life.  I don't know how often people need to include
> >>> multi-megabyte files in their code.  It certainly is not at a
> >>> level where I would change any of my existing projects from
> >>> external generator scripts to using #embed, but I might use it in
> >>> future projects.  
> >>
> >> I've just done my own quick test (not in C, using embed in my
> >> language):
> >>
> >>       []byte clangexe = binclude("f:/llvm/bin/clang.exe")
> >>
> >>       proc main=
> >>           fprintln "clang.exe is # bytes", clangexe.len
> >>       end
> >>
> >>
> >> This embeds the Clang C compiler which is 119MB. It took 1.3
> >> seconds to compile (note my compiler is not optimised).
> >>
> >> If I tried it using text: a 121M-line include file, with one number
> >> per line, it took 144 seconds (I believe it used more RAM than was
> >> available: each line will have occupied a 64-byte AST node, so
> >> nearly 8GB, on a machine with only 6GB available RAM, much of
> >> which was occupied).  
> > 
> > On my old PC that was not the cheapest box in the shop, but is more
> > than 10 y.o. compilation speed for similarly organized (but much
> > smaller) text files is as following:
> > MSVC 18.00.31101 (VS 2013) - 1950 KB/sec
> > MSVC 19.16.27032 (VS 2017) - 1180 KB/sec
> > MSVC 19.20.27500 (VS 2019) - 1180 KB/sec
> > clang 17.0.6 - 547 KB/sec (somewhat better with hex text)
> > gcc 13.2.0 - 580 KB/sec
> > 
> > So, MSVC compilers, esp. an old one, are somewhat faster than yours.
> > But if there was swapping involved it's not comparable. How much
> > time does it take for your compiler to produce 5MB byte array from
> > text?  
> 
> Are you talking about a 5MB array initialised like this:
> 
> unsigned char data[] = {
>     45,
>     67,
>     17,
>     ...            // 5M-3 more rows
> };
> 

Yes.

> The timing for 120M entries was challenging as it exceeded physical 
> memory. However that test I can also do with C compilers. Results for 
> 120 million lines of data are:
> 
>    DMC          -    Out-of-memory
> 
>    Tiny C       -    Silently stopped after 13 second (I thought it
> had finished but no)
> 
>    lccwin32     -    Insufficient memory
> 
>    gcc 10.x.x   -    Out of memory after 80 seconds
> 
>    mcc          -    (My product) Memory failure after 27 seconds
> 
>    Clang        -    (Crashed after 5 minutes)
> 
>    MM         144s   (Compiler for my language)
> 
> So the compiler for my language did quite well, considering!
>

That's an interesting test as well, but I don't want to run it on my HW
right now. May be, at night.

> 
> Back to the 5MB test:
> 
>    Tiny C     1.7s    2.9MB/sec (Tcc doesn't use any IR)
> 
>    mcc        3.7s    1.3MB/sec (my product; uses intermediate ASM)

Faster than new MSVC, but slower than old MSVC.

> 
>    DMC        --      --        (Out of memory; 32-bit compiler)
> 
>    lccwin32   3.9s    1.3MB/sec
> 
>    gcc 10.x  10.6s    0.5MB/sec
> 
>    clang      7.4s    0.7MB/sec (to object file only)
> 
>    MM         1.4s    3.6MB/sec (compiler for my language)
> 
>    MM         0.7     7.1MB/sec (MM optimised via C and gcc-O3)
>

That's quite impressive. 
Does it generate object files or goes directly to exe?
Even if later, it's still impressive.
 
> As a reminder, when using my version of 'embed' in my language, 
> embedding a 120MB binary file took 1.3 seconds, about 90MB/second.
> 
> 
> > But both are much faster than compiling through text. Even "slow"
> > 40MB/3 is 6-7 times faster than the fastest of compilers in my
> > tests.  
> 
> Do you have a C compiler that supports #embed?
>

No, I just blindly believe the paper.
But it probably would be available in clang this year and in gcc around
start of the next year. At least I hope so.

> It's generally understood that processing text is slow, if
> representing byte-at-a-time data. If byte arrays could be represented
> as sequences of i64 constants, it would improve matters. That could
> be done in C, but awkwardly, by aliasing a byte-array with an
> i64-array.
> 

I don't think that conversion from text to binary is a significant
bottleneck here. In order to get a feeling of the things, I wrote a
tiny program that converts comma-separated list of integers to a binary
file. Something quite similar to 'xxd -r' but with input format that
is more fit to our requirements. Not identical to full requirements, of
course. My utility can't handle comments and probably few other things
that are allowed in C sources, but conversion part is pretty much the
same.
It runs at 6.700 MB/s with decimal input and at 9.1 MB/s with hex input.
That with SATA SSD of sort that went out of fashion before 2020.

So, it seems that at least in case gcc a conversion part constitutes
less than 10% of the total run time.

If you want to play with it yourself, here is my source:

-- list_to_bin.c
-- takes textual input from standard input
-- writes output to binary file
-- Usage:
-- list_to_bin oufile.bin < inp_file.txt
--
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <ctype.h>

int main(int argz, char** argv)
{
  if (argz > 1) {
    FILE* fp = fopen(argv[1], "wb");
    if (fp) {
      char buf[2048];
      _Bool look_for_comma = 0;
      for (;;) {
        if (fgets(buf, sizeof(buf), stdin) != buf)
          break;

        char* p = buf;
        for (;;) {
          char c = *p;
          if (isgraph(c)) {
            if (look_for_comma) {
              if (c == ',') {
                look_for_comma = 0;
                ++p;
              } else {
                goto done;
              }
            } else {
              char* endp;
              long val = strtol(p, &endp, 0);
              if (endp==p) // not a number
                goto done;
              fputc((unsigned char)val, fp);
              p = endp;
              look_for_comma = 1;
            }
          } else {
            if (c == 0)
              break; // end of line
            ++p; // skip space or control character
          }
        }
      }
      done:
      fclose(fp);
    } else {
      perror(argv[1]);
      return 1;
    }
  }
  return 0;
}








 

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C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-22 18:55 +0200
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 14:42 -0300
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-22 22:11 +0200
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 17:26 -0300
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 14:17 +0200
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 09:38 -0300
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-23 17:08 +0000
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 16:06 -0300
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 15:11 +0200
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 13:21 -0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 14:49 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-24 11:03 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 14:17 -0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 12:45 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 17:06 -0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 13:19 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 21:27 -0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 17:46 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 08:33 -0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 16:51 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 16:34 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 13:05 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 08:19 -0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 17:14 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-26 02:09 +0100
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 15:53 -0700
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 22:21 -0300
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-23 13:11 +0100
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 09:43 -0700
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-24 16:19 +0200
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 15:25 +0200
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 13:06 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-24 15:45 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 18:29 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 13:11 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 15:58 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-26 13:09 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-26 12:51 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 16:18 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-26 16:25 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 19:35 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-26 19:01 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 23:26 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-26 22:27 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 19:19 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 23:06 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-27 00:49 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 19:54 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-27 11:10 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 23:59 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-26 22:52 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 16:20 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-27 00:48 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-27 11:05 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 10:12 -0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 16:17 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-27 13:42 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 17:33 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-28 13:52 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 13:21 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-28 23:37 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-29 10:02 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-28 00:20 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 17:59 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-28 15:42 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 13:44 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 05:36 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-28 15:53 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-27 00:44 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-27 01:55 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-27 02:48 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-27 14:03 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-28 02:45 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-28 11:30 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-29 04:17 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 06:00 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 13:58 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 17:20 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-30 02:32 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 11:09 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-30 13:43 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-01 01:45 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-30 14:34 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 17:08 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-30 15:48 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 18:03 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-31 13:55 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-31 16:19 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-31 16:28 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-31 16:48 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-31 15:04 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-31 17:34 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-31 19:03 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-31 18:36 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-31 22:15 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-01 01:25 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-01 11:24 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-01 05:17 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-01 15:08 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-01 17:22 -0700
                objcopy -I binary etc... Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-06 14:56 +0300
                Re: objcopy -I binary etc... Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-06 07:44 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-01 22:51 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-01 15:24 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-01 19:59 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 04:00 +0000
                Re: Correct objcopy Usage (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 04:33 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-06-01 03:37 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-01 11:09 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-06-01 13:59 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-01 17:26 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-02 01:11 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-02 00:39 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-02 03:06 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-06 14:43 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-31 21:42 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-31 21:11 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-31 22:17 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-01 21:11 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-01 17:47 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-31 15:03 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-05-31 15:34 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-31 20:31 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 01:53 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-01 11:53 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 16:51 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-31 09:24 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-31 13:39 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-31 13:31 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 17:51 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-01 01:39 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-01 11:37 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-02 03:27 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-02 10:37 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 01:16 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-03 11:16 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 02:10 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-04 12:28 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-05 01:51 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-04 19:45 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-03 11:13 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 02:12 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-04 12:35 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-05 01:50 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-05 09:10 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 09:23 -0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-05 15:09 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-06 02:12 +0000
                xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-28 14:41 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-28 15:06 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-28 17:42 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-28 18:56 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-28 18:14 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-28 19:20 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-28 19:57 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-28 23:23 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 00:45 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-29 01:29 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 09:21 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 12:44 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-28 23:08 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 01:24 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-30 02:35 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-05-30 00:40 -0400
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 10:40 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-05-30 14:04 -0400
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 22:31 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-05-31 15:20 -0400
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-30 19:47 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 03:15 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-03 08:57 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 07:59 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-03 11:02 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-06-03 14:41 -0400
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 02:07 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 14:41 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-29 00:54 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-29 10:32 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 13:08 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-29 14:10 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 15:27 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-29 15:19 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 14:38 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 15:43 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 14:57 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 07:54 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 17:27 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-29 19:27 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-05-29 14:07 -0400
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 22:59 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 22:46 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-30 01:18 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 02:31 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-30 12:23 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 14:40 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 14:21 -0700
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 16:41 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 08:31 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-05-30 00:06 -0400
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-30 13:31 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 15:15 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-30 16:09 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 08:29 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 16:50 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-05-30 16:00 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 18:28 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 03:10 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-30 10:01 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-30 11:33 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-30 12:13 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-30 14:14 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 07:51 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 03:12 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-03 10:57 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 12:38 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-29 12:23 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 15:23 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-29 15:16 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-29 18:32 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-29 18:41 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-29 21:31 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 07:49 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-03 13:01 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-29 10:18 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-28 17:34 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-29 22:08 +0100
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-30 15:05 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-05-30 14:20 -0400
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 12:27 -0700
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-31 09:55 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-31 13:45 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-31 13:33 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-02 04:19 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-02 13:40 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-02 04:16 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 18:39 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 02:07 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 04:46 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 03:58 +0000
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-04 09:52 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-04 11:01 +0300
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 10:34 +0200
                Re: xxd -i vs DIY Was: C23 thoughts and opinions Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-06-03 22:46 -0400
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 13:54 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-29 01:03 +0100
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 22:23 -0300
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-23 02:59 +0000
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 21:08 -0700
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-23 04:20 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-23 04:47 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 21:30 -0700
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 07:29 +0100
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 14:32 +0200
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 13:37 -0700
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 15:31 +0200
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-05-23 20:23 +0000
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-24 16:25 +0200
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-23 20:31 +0300
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 14:28 -0700
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-23 17:10 +0000
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-23 15:43 +0300
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-23 02:49 +0000
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-23 16:40 +0000
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-23 15:36 +0300
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-22 14:24 -0700
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 15:35 +0200
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 16:05 -0700
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 16:17 -0700
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-24 16:50 +0200
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 11:08 -0700
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 11:21 -0700
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 13:22 +0200
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-24 23:51 +0000
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-23 03:13 +0000
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 15:42 +0200
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-05-23 14:35 -0400
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 09:40 -0700
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-24 17:10 +0200
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 12:29 -0700
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 13:29 +0200
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 16:21 -0700
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-26 16:15 +0200
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-23 15:02 +0300
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 15:56 +0200
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB-Alt <bohannonindustriesllc@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 17:15 -0500
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-05-23 17:37 -0700
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-24 12:05 +0300
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-05-24 06:54 -0700
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-24 18:46 +0300
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-05-25 03:01 -0700
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-23 17:19 +0300
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-23 22:10 +0200
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-24 00:34 +0300
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-24 01:06 +0000
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 07:47 +0100
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-25 00:31 +0000
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 06:38 +0100
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-24 05:42 +0000
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-24 11:42 +0300
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-05-23 18:35 -0700
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 19:42 -0700
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-05-23 20:28 -0700
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-24 17:57 +0200
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-05-24 16:16 +0000
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 16:41 +0200
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-24 19:22 +0300
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-24 19:38 +0100
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 13:06 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-05-24 21:20 +0100
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-25 00:32 +0000
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 17:28 +0200
          Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-25 00:40 +0000
            Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-25 17:47 +0200
              Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 16:45 -0700
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-26 16:18 +0200
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 09:48 -0500
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-26 18:12 +0200
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-28 02:48 +0000
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-05-28 01:31 -0500
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-05-29 11:27 -0400
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) BGB-Alt <bohannonindustriesllc@gmail.com> - 2024-05-30 14:18 -0500
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-28 13:56 +0200
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-05-27 20:26 -0700
                Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-05-26 18:59 -0400
            Re: errno (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative?) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 15:23 -0500
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 14:38 -0700
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions - why so conservative? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-24 00:48 +0300
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 21:25 +0200
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-23 16:49 -0300
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 07:36 +0200
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-24 09:32 +0200
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 18:34 +0200
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-26 09:13 +0200
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 13:23 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-27 00:55 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-05-31 18:34 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-01 01:27 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-02 11:02 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-02 14:03 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-02 16:29 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-02 19:23 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-02 21:44 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-03 12:00 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-03 18:34 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-03 16:50 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-03 21:05 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-03 19:38 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-03 22:58 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-03 21:22 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-06-04 05:17 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-04 11:23 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-04 10:25 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-04 13:30 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 12:48 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-04 19:17 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB-Alt <bohannonindustriesllc@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 17:32 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-05 07:22 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-05 07:14 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 04:01 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-05 07:15 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-05 13:32 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-06-05 13:59 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-06-04 05:12 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 06:55 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-02 19:15 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-06-02 12:46 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-03 03:21 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-03 14:16 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-03 13:23 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 13:46 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-04 19:21 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 20:44 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-06-04 23:59 -0400
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 00:44 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-05 13:29 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-06-05 13:49 -0500
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-03 21:14 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-01 15:28 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 16:33 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-02 03:28 +0000
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-05-25 21:24 +0000
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-26 08:32 +0200
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 02:48 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-26 13:44 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 15:39 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-26 15:46 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 17:20 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-26 16:29 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 18:05 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-26 18:26 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 19:50 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-28 05:41 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-28 10:46 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-26 17:10 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-05-26 18:23 +0300
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-26 19:23 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-26 18:36 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-26 19:11 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 16:30 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-05-27 10:45 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-28 05:45 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 13:53 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-05-26 21:16 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-27 07:14 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-27 00:53 +0000
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-05-26 21:03 +0000
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2024-05-26 08:44 +0200
    Don't let the door hit you... (Was: C23 thoughts and opinions) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-05-23 19:58 +0000
      Re: Don't let the door hit you... (Was: C23 thoughts and opinions) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 18:35 +0200
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2024-05-31 17:55 -0500
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-01 15:30 +0200
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-02 03:29 +0000
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-06-01 23:31 -0700
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-06-02 13:24 +0000
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-06-02 16:51 +0000
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-06-02 19:52 +0000
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-03 12:01 +0300
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-03 13:31 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 14:02 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-06-03 21:48 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-04 10:36 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-06-04 14:47 -0700
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-03 23:43 +0100
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-06-03 16:23 -0700
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-04 10:47 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-04 02:20 +0000
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-04 10:47 +0200
                Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-06-04 05:25 +0000
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-03 13:29 -0700
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-05-24 21:35 -0300
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-05-25 16:05 -0500

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